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LukeSurl t c 16:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)Pollenatedweasal has made a number of edits to the text which I have inserted, without explanation. I think that overall, these edits do not improve the page. In almost every case, the grammar of the edits is not as good as the grammar being superceded. There are also several cases in which interpretations are made that do not belong in this kind of article. Also, some slang words or phrases have been added. Also, some plot events have been changed to be less accurate. And some old cliches have been added back. I will give this a few weeks for comment, and then I will see if it might be prudent to edit the page some more or just leave it as it is.
I have some specific criticisms listed below:
The pregnant Stella asks Stanley not to tell Blanche that she is pregnant, for fear she will get overexcited. Poorly written and not necessary.
While Stella goes out to the store, Stanley accosts Blanche about the circumstances surrounding the loss of Belle Reve. Unnecessary interpretation.
When Blanche tries to snatch them back, the letters fall to the floor. It did not happen this way; the letters fell from her hands when Stanley grabbed them.
Soon after, Stanley hosts a poker night with his friends in his and Stella's apartment. Stanley is just a cut above an ape-man; he doesn’t “host” parties.
When Blanche turns on the radio against Stanley's bidding, Stanley explodes in a drunken rage, striking Stella after she comes to her sister's defense. Stanley's friends go home while Blanche and Stella flee to the upstairs neighbor, Eunice. Too much detail.
When his anger subsides, Stanley weeps, and cries out for Stella to come back. Stella descends the stairs and Stanley carries her off to bed to have sex. “…carries her off to bed for sex … “ This is not an encyclopedic tone; better to say, “carries her off to bed….
In the morning, Blanche wakes Stella up and accuses Stanley of being subhuman and animalistic. She does not mention that he is “animalistic,” which is also not a very good word.
Blanche’s visit extends as she is unable to find another place to stay. An explanation not given in the plot; there is no effort to find another place to stay, nor to move out.
He despises her obsession with seeming respectable and pure, while she continues to feel threatened by his vulgarity. Awkward grammar.
He tells Stella what he finds; that Blanche has a reputation for mental instability, sexual promiscuity and homosexuality that got her fired from her teaching job in Auriol and run out of town. This does not follow the story line. Blanche does not have a history of homosexuality.
She admits to her anxieties and explains her coping mechanisms, pleading for forgiveness. Poorly written; “coping mechanism” is not a real thing.
Angry and humiliated, Mitch spitefully rejects her after sharing a confused kiss. Wrong interpretation. Mitch is not spiteful towards Blanche; he is genuinely hurt. Also, “sharing a confused kiss” is a poor choice of words, and does not describe the scene.
Blanche chases him out, threatening to scream for help and frame him for assaulting her if he does not leave. Blanche screamed to make Mitch leave. All the rest is made up.
He taunts her with further displays of his own brutishness and vulgarity, while she keeps making attempts to maintain her respectable façade. These are standard old “Streetcar Named Desire” cliches.
Stanley becomes frustrated with her stubbornness and assaults Blanche. It is implied that he rapes her. This is not what happens; this is analysis and interpretation.
Retired completely to her own corner of the house, not willing to face Stanley, Blanche is emotionally fragile, having fits whenever confronted with something that does not fit into her view of herself. They are in a 2 room flat, not a house. Blanche is in the bathroom, washing her hair, not in her own corner of the house. Blanche is not having “fits.” “Fit” in this context is an inappropriate slang word.
Stella and Eunice have told Blanche that a rich admirer of hers is coming to take her on a cruise. Stella has told Blanche that she is going on a vacation in the country. The “rich admirer and the cruise are Blanche’s own ideas.
Instead, they have arranged for her to be committed into a mental institution. She is “going” to a mental institution. Nothing is ever said about arrangements, or tricking her, only that she is "going." So why not just say that?
She has told Stella about Stanley's assault, and the rumour has spread through Stanley's social circle, though nobody elects to do anything about it. Stella is more conflicted than ever about her relationship with Stanley. There is an interpretation, not in the movie plot.
An older doctor and an older nurse come to the door. How old are they? Does it matter?
Mitch, present at the poker game, launches himself at Stanley, but is restrained and breaks down into tears. Mitch breaks down in tears first; then Blance collapses in confusion. Grinbriar ( talk) 18:52, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
PS. Very sorry for re-editing this talk page so much, I'm not used to this format of internet discussion. - Pollenatedweasel ( talk) 21:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
The word "fit" as you use it is slang. Here is an example of the medical definition of "fit:" Fits (seizures) have a variety of causes, and most fits will not be due to a brain tumour. Fits occurring for the first time should be viewed as a potentially serious symptom, and require further investigation of the cause. A fit can be a brief moment when the person appears to be “absent” from what is going on around them, or jerking/twitching of a hand, arm or leg or jerking/twitching affecting the whole body. They may or may not become unconscious. Having or witnessing a fit can be very frightening.
The word "fit" is obviouisly slang, which makes me wonder if you are a child, still in school, or if maybe English is your second language.
Also, there is more to good grammar than just being technically correct. "You are being pretty today..." is technically correct. There is nothing wrong with the verb tense, conjugation, and word order. But still it is not right. It does not sound right. It does not conform to common usage. A mature and educated person, or a native speaker would more readily pick-up on that. I don't think it is worth my time to argue in such minutia about what is or is not obviously slang or good or bad grammar.
You have provided some painfully "exquisite" detail, with complex inferences and analytic elaboration, yet you criticize me if I even hint at an interpretation. I just want to give the plot as a person would see it, if a person saw it, and not tell them what every little thing meant, for example, that Blanche has a homosexual past.
One of my criticisms was that you said Mitch "spitefully" rejected Blanche. You rewrote the whole sentence, but left in the word "spite." The reason that I wanted the word "spite" removed is because Mitch was without spite.
Why do you say "Blanche is in the bathroom washing her hair?" I just used that as an example that she was not cringing in a corner as you said she was. You don't need to say she is washing her hair. You told me that a plot summary does not need to include every detail, yet you include this kind of detail.
Also, are you "The Stickman?" Are you allowed to do this in one than one personnae? Grinbriar ( talk) 14:19, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
I said that ... you have provided some painfully "exquisite" detail ... I did not say that you used the word "exquisite." I am a little frustrated communicating with you because your replies often indicate that you have not understood my meaning. I don't mean to hurt your feelings by saying this. If I have, then please excuse me.
"He despises her obsession with seeming respectable and pure, while she continues to feel threatened by his bluntness and vulgarity." This senence is idiomatcially awkward. It is a poor sentence. The sentence you replaced was a better sentence. In fact many of my sentences that you replaced were better than the ones you replaced them with. I do not know how else to say it. English teachers grade papers all the time, and mark grammatically correct sentences as awkwardly written. I can see it clearly. I do not know why you cannot. I asked if you were a child, meaning someone under the age of 18, or someone whose native language is not Enlish. I do not mean to hurt your feelings with these inquiries; I am just puzzled by your exchanges with me regarding grammar, slang, and now, might I also add, idiom. If I am hurting your feelings, then I apologize.
I asked if you are The Stickman because you use the same phrases and arguements, replacing some of my words with the exact same words as The Stickman, when the Stickman was making corrections to my edits in the Streetcar Named Desire article on the play. I am not meaning to insult you or hurt your feelings. If I have done so, then I apologize. I will not be making any additional edits to the article for a while since you do not seem open to it, at this time. I will just bow out for now. If I don't make any more commnets, I am not ignoring you; I just cannot spend all of my time on this. If you make any more edits, please do not include me in the edit comment. Grinbriar ( talk) 18:32, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
LukeSurl t c 16:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)Pollenatedweasal has made a number of edits to the text which I have inserted, without explanation. I think that overall, these edits do not improve the page. In almost every case, the grammar of the edits is not as good as the grammar being superceded. There are also several cases in which interpretations are made that do not belong in this kind of article. Also, some slang words or phrases have been added. Also, some plot events have been changed to be less accurate. And some old cliches have been added back. I will give this a few weeks for comment, and then I will see if it might be prudent to edit the page some more or just leave it as it is.
I have some specific criticisms listed below:
The pregnant Stella asks Stanley not to tell Blanche that she is pregnant, for fear she will get overexcited. Poorly written and not necessary.
While Stella goes out to the store, Stanley accosts Blanche about the circumstances surrounding the loss of Belle Reve. Unnecessary interpretation.
When Blanche tries to snatch them back, the letters fall to the floor. It did not happen this way; the letters fell from her hands when Stanley grabbed them.
Soon after, Stanley hosts a poker night with his friends in his and Stella's apartment. Stanley is just a cut above an ape-man; he doesn’t “host” parties.
When Blanche turns on the radio against Stanley's bidding, Stanley explodes in a drunken rage, striking Stella after she comes to her sister's defense. Stanley's friends go home while Blanche and Stella flee to the upstairs neighbor, Eunice. Too much detail.
When his anger subsides, Stanley weeps, and cries out for Stella to come back. Stella descends the stairs and Stanley carries her off to bed to have sex. “…carries her off to bed for sex … “ This is not an encyclopedic tone; better to say, “carries her off to bed….
In the morning, Blanche wakes Stella up and accuses Stanley of being subhuman and animalistic. She does not mention that he is “animalistic,” which is also not a very good word.
Blanche’s visit extends as she is unable to find another place to stay. An explanation not given in the plot; there is no effort to find another place to stay, nor to move out.
He despises her obsession with seeming respectable and pure, while she continues to feel threatened by his vulgarity. Awkward grammar.
He tells Stella what he finds; that Blanche has a reputation for mental instability, sexual promiscuity and homosexuality that got her fired from her teaching job in Auriol and run out of town. This does not follow the story line. Blanche does not have a history of homosexuality.
She admits to her anxieties and explains her coping mechanisms, pleading for forgiveness. Poorly written; “coping mechanism” is not a real thing.
Angry and humiliated, Mitch spitefully rejects her after sharing a confused kiss. Wrong interpretation. Mitch is not spiteful towards Blanche; he is genuinely hurt. Also, “sharing a confused kiss” is a poor choice of words, and does not describe the scene.
Blanche chases him out, threatening to scream for help and frame him for assaulting her if he does not leave. Blanche screamed to make Mitch leave. All the rest is made up.
He taunts her with further displays of his own brutishness and vulgarity, while she keeps making attempts to maintain her respectable façade. These are standard old “Streetcar Named Desire” cliches.
Stanley becomes frustrated with her stubbornness and assaults Blanche. It is implied that he rapes her. This is not what happens; this is analysis and interpretation.
Retired completely to her own corner of the house, not willing to face Stanley, Blanche is emotionally fragile, having fits whenever confronted with something that does not fit into her view of herself. They are in a 2 room flat, not a house. Blanche is in the bathroom, washing her hair, not in her own corner of the house. Blanche is not having “fits.” “Fit” in this context is an inappropriate slang word.
Stella and Eunice have told Blanche that a rich admirer of hers is coming to take her on a cruise. Stella has told Blanche that she is going on a vacation in the country. The “rich admirer and the cruise are Blanche’s own ideas.
Instead, they have arranged for her to be committed into a mental institution. She is “going” to a mental institution. Nothing is ever said about arrangements, or tricking her, only that she is "going." So why not just say that?
She has told Stella about Stanley's assault, and the rumour has spread through Stanley's social circle, though nobody elects to do anything about it. Stella is more conflicted than ever about her relationship with Stanley. There is an interpretation, not in the movie plot.
An older doctor and an older nurse come to the door. How old are they? Does it matter?
Mitch, present at the poker game, launches himself at Stanley, but is restrained and breaks down into tears. Mitch breaks down in tears first; then Blance collapses in confusion. Grinbriar ( talk) 18:52, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
PS. Very sorry for re-editing this talk page so much, I'm not used to this format of internet discussion. - Pollenatedweasel ( talk) 21:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
The word "fit" as you use it is slang. Here is an example of the medical definition of "fit:" Fits (seizures) have a variety of causes, and most fits will not be due to a brain tumour. Fits occurring for the first time should be viewed as a potentially serious symptom, and require further investigation of the cause. A fit can be a brief moment when the person appears to be “absent” from what is going on around them, or jerking/twitching of a hand, arm or leg or jerking/twitching affecting the whole body. They may or may not become unconscious. Having or witnessing a fit can be very frightening.
The word "fit" is obviouisly slang, which makes me wonder if you are a child, still in school, or if maybe English is your second language.
Also, there is more to good grammar than just being technically correct. "You are being pretty today..." is technically correct. There is nothing wrong with the verb tense, conjugation, and word order. But still it is not right. It does not sound right. It does not conform to common usage. A mature and educated person, or a native speaker would more readily pick-up on that. I don't think it is worth my time to argue in such minutia about what is or is not obviously slang or good or bad grammar.
You have provided some painfully "exquisite" detail, with complex inferences and analytic elaboration, yet you criticize me if I even hint at an interpretation. I just want to give the plot as a person would see it, if a person saw it, and not tell them what every little thing meant, for example, that Blanche has a homosexual past.
One of my criticisms was that you said Mitch "spitefully" rejected Blanche. You rewrote the whole sentence, but left in the word "spite." The reason that I wanted the word "spite" removed is because Mitch was without spite.
Why do you say "Blanche is in the bathroom washing her hair?" I just used that as an example that she was not cringing in a corner as you said she was. You don't need to say she is washing her hair. You told me that a plot summary does not need to include every detail, yet you include this kind of detail.
Also, are you "The Stickman?" Are you allowed to do this in one than one personnae? Grinbriar ( talk) 14:19, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
I said that ... you have provided some painfully "exquisite" detail ... I did not say that you used the word "exquisite." I am a little frustrated communicating with you because your replies often indicate that you have not understood my meaning. I don't mean to hurt your feelings by saying this. If I have, then please excuse me.
"He despises her obsession with seeming respectable and pure, while she continues to feel threatened by his bluntness and vulgarity." This senence is idiomatcially awkward. It is a poor sentence. The sentence you replaced was a better sentence. In fact many of my sentences that you replaced were better than the ones you replaced them with. I do not know how else to say it. English teachers grade papers all the time, and mark grammatically correct sentences as awkwardly written. I can see it clearly. I do not know why you cannot. I asked if you were a child, meaning someone under the age of 18, or someone whose native language is not Enlish. I do not mean to hurt your feelings with these inquiries; I am just puzzled by your exchanges with me regarding grammar, slang, and now, might I also add, idiom. If I am hurting your feelings, then I apologize.
I asked if you are The Stickman because you use the same phrases and arguements, replacing some of my words with the exact same words as The Stickman, when the Stickman was making corrections to my edits in the Streetcar Named Desire article on the play. I am not meaning to insult you or hurt your feelings. If I have done so, then I apologize. I will not be making any additional edits to the article for a while since you do not seem open to it, at this time. I will just bow out for now. If I don't make any more commnets, I am not ignoring you; I just cannot spend all of my time on this. If you make any more edits, please do not include me in the edit comment. Grinbriar ( talk) 18:32, 1 April 2015 (UTC)