This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Greetings! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you have questions or doubts of any sort, do not hesitate to post them on the Village Pump, somebody will respond ASAP. Other helpful pages include:
Have fun! -- Jiang 21:06 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
You may also want to specify that you are not me, nor in any way connected with me. (my usernumber is 9993.) -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 03:15 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)
got an email from you that began, "Thank you for your emails." far as i know, i've never sent you an email. i generally prefer to correspond only at wikipedia re articles, so that other editors can see what's being said. feel free to talk-page me if your email wasn't a mistake. thanks. SaltyPig 14:26, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
The changes that I wish to make in the header are purely factual ones, dates and places and one grammatical. Perhaps you have noticed that I have already done some editing on other sections of the page along the same lines. For reasons I do not fully understand, I occasionally seem to get logged in and out of wikipedia "spontaneously" and therefore some of the changes I have made recently do not have my signature on them. Since you mention having "tons" of objections to the article, you have probably noticed everything that I have, so I think that I will just wait for your presentation ... Thanks. Polaris999 07:51, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
You may be interested in Wikipedia:Dead external links. Wikipedia talk:Bots is the page to go to request permission to run a bot that edits live content, though for the task you indicate, read-only or even "offline" analysis using Wikipedia:Database downloads is probably sufficient. Good luck, Beland 03:10, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Could I ask you to have a good look at Che Guevara's involvement in the Cuban Revolution? All I really did there was to make sure its references were moved with it. But the Lamar Waldron / Thom Hartmann stuff strikes me as just weird. (Hartmann is so hit-or-miss...) I simply don't know enough about these weird little conspiracy theories to address them. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:07, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Re: those two citations on the exiles: I left the two words "Cuban exiles" instead of the long, self-congratulatory peroration. I say keep the citations: they are perfectly OK citations for what the now-appropriate sentence says. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for experimenting with template features, however I'll have to ask you to keep such testing in your userspace. I am moving "Template:Mytest889" and "Template:Mytest789" to {{ User:Polaris999/Mytest889}} and {{ User:Polaris999/Mytest789}}. You can use any page as a template, you just need to specify the namespace if it's anything other than "Template:". Have fun. — FREAK OF NURxTURE ( TALK) 07:12, Jan. 1, 2006
Hello, please use {{d}} or {{delete}} to nominate an article for speedy deletion without giving a reason, and {{db|stupid}} or {{deletebecause|pointless}} to nominate article for speedy deletion with a reason. r3m0t talk 00:11, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
See Talk:Che Guevara#Song of Roland?, where I had already commented on the issue you brought up at Talk:Basque people. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:08, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your continuing great work on this article. I don't have the time for it these days. Just wanted you to know it's appreciated. - Jmabel | Talk 20:03, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your kind words as well. I'm pretty plunged into work (spec'ing a rather flexible, integrated email/voicemail/fax system); I'm still probably managing 20 hours a week on Wikipedia, but that's not even enough to generally keep up with my watchlist. If there's anything specific where I can be of help, do let me know, but it's been pretty obvious that you know more about Guevara than I do.
Speaking of which, I just noticed that Che Guevara's involvement in the Cuban Revolution has recently accrued a lot of very anti-Guevara sentiment that can hardly even pretend to pass for neutral. Can I prevail upon you to take a look? Because this one needs more than I can give to it right now. - Jmabel | Talk 04:56, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I've added the info on his treatment of Bolivian prisoners compared to his own fate to the section on his death. I'm not quite sure how to put your info in...should it be included with this to back up the contrasts in treatment or should it be a seperate paragraph in the part about the insurgency? PJB 16:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
How does this sound?
Despite the violent nature of the conflict it might also be appropriate to mention that Che gave medical attention to all of the wounded Bolivian soldiers whom the guerrillas took prisoner, before releasing them. Even after his last battle at the Quebrada del Yuro, in which he had been wounded, when he was taken to a temporary holding location and saw there a number of Bolivian soldiers who had also been wounded in the battle, he offered to give them medical care (His offer was turned down by the Bolivian officer in charge.). Source: Paco Taibo Ignacio II.
I'm not sure if it sounds good? I think I need to tie it in more with the INSURGENCY section...what do you think? PJB 17:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry. You're right. Forgot about that case. -- TKD 06:29, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
You are, of course, completely right, since you are the one who has written the article, not I. I have read your idea and it seems like the best way to go; Let's leave the information about his beginning to play chess and his taking up photography in the "Youth" section, add the reference about him playing chess in Cuba and the pictures in Bolivia. Thanks. Lord ViD 05:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I actually thought the source given for the birthdate was lifted from that website, not the opposite. As for the chess comments, the place you put it in is perfect. I will also be looking into the source note malfunction. Thanks. Lord ViD 06:38, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I have done many changes since last time, hopefully for the better. Look at them and tell me if you object to any;
Finally, what do you say about adding Image:Ergstimecover1960.jpg to the article. If so, where shall we place it? Lord ViD 13:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply. As for the sentence troubling you, I'm going to take a shot at rewriting it. As for the Audio of pronounciation; that would be an excellent idea. Have you already found the sound byte? As for the Felix Rodriguez part; I ahve also done some research and found that he was not part of the invasion. I'm going to remove the part about him being a veteran of the invasion. Lord ViD 19:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
As for the sound byte, I will ask Spangineer, If he can't then we will probably have to put up a request for it. Regarding the hyperlink; you were perfectly right in removing it. :) Lord ViD 18:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Great work on those changes you made! I've rewritten the sentence according your suggestions and I've asked Spangineer for the audio clip; I'm waiting for his reply. Thanks! Lord ViD 18:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow, this has grown into a very long discussion! Anyway, I have a few things to discuss with you regarding the article;
Other than that, the article is looking perfect! Thanks. Lord ViD 10:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Good luck on the timeline; I won't be of any help since my technical skills aren't really that great, so I wouldn't know how to make a pop-up.
There's a question I've been meaning to ask you for a long time; when are you going to add your vote to the FAC page? I assumed you would be the first to do so since you're the major contributor to this article. Lord ViD 21:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the compliments on the topics, though I need your help in expanding some entries and removing some. I forgot, for example, that the 26th of July Movement was a group of people, and not a political event. So I wanted to ask you some questions;
1) Are Carlos Fonseca, Luis Carlos Prestes and Colegio Cesar Chavez really that relevant to Guevara? 2)Should we I add Communism to the topics, or should I remove Marxism/ Socialism, or should I leave everything as it is? 3)Do you know anything else I can add/remove?
As for the "Che the thinker", if you feel you would be able to make an article about the subject, then do so, and a brief summary could be added to the Che Guevara article, like the "Involvement" section. Thanks for adding your support! Lord ViD 15:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris..extremely sorry for the (very) late reply. Firstly, thank you for your advice; I have revised the template according to your suggestions. Secondly, you're right about that sentence; feel free to convert it into a source note if you wish. Lord ViD 15:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris, thank you for your advice. I don't feel comfortable adding the Sino-Soviet split, as I believe the events in the See also should be directly related to Guevara. I saw the picture of Guevara's birthplace, and I must say it's a very welcome addition and a great change from all those black and white photographs :-)
On a different note, something that has been bothering me with the article is the "Films and video games" section. Most of the video games listed are speculated to be references of Guevara, and I don't believe we need a list of every reference to Guevara in video games. I would like to omit this useless list. As for the films, my thought would be to move them to the support section, but that will break the tone and flow of the support section, so I would like to hear your thoughts on all this. Thanks. Lord ViD 14:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Polaris; I reverted the first paragraph of the lead because that "left wing mileu" thing didn't make sense and didn't seem relevant. I'm not as opposed to the other addition (that they killed him because they were worried about him escaping or being released later), though it could probably be worded better. What do you think? -- Spangineer (háblame) 22:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, you seem to have created this page as a placeholder for an article. This is not usual practice here, as normally we want to avoid self references in the encyclopedia, so I added a speedy tag to it. If you wish to start an actual article there, however, then please go ahead. Thanks. Flower party■ 02:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello LordViD: The previous topic has gotten so long that I thought it was time to start a new one! Very glad to hear that you like the photo of the house and its placement. I agree with you re keeping the "See also" section for articles directly related to Che. About what to do with the videogames section, I have mixed feelings. If it were to disappear, I personally would not mind at all; however, while working on this article over the past many months, I have observed that there are several users who every so often come on and add new titles, details, etc. to that section. I have the feeling that it must mean something to them and would therefore be hesitant about removing it completely. Re the films, I don't think that they can be moved in toto into the Support section because it is my understanding that some of them are not supportive, and, in general, it just doesn't seem to be the right place for them. Do you think it might be possible to convert the entire "In Films and videogames" section into a separate "daughter" article and then include it in the "See also" section as you have done with "Involvement"? Polaris999 16:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello again, LordViD -- I need to ask you about something else. Specifically, in the "Criticism" sub-section, there is a paragraph consisting of one sentence, to wit:
It is my understanding that one-sentence paragraphs are greatly deprecated by Wikipedia (and all other publishers with which I am familiar). I notice on the "Talk" page that someone raised the question as to whether the merchandising of anti-Che items should be considered a form of criticism. Anyway, my primary concern is the "orphan" paragraph and what to do about it ... Polaris999 23:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
P.S. If you have a chance, would you please take a look at the way the "Legacy" and "Criticism" sections are handled in John F. Kennedy to see if you think we might try to modify the CG article along similar lines? The "Legacy" section of Theodore Roosevelt is also interesting ... Polaris999 05:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Re the paragraph, I will have alook at it now and try to merge it.
As for the section organisation; are you suggesting that we merge "support" with "legacy" (with "popular culture" being a subsection), and move "criticsm" to its own section? That is fine by me and would probably improve the article. Lord ViD 21:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I fear this discussion will turn into a long one too! I have merged the orphan and restructured the sections per your suggestions. A few points come up now;
Thanks! :-) Lord ViD 22:10, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris. Like you said, I was thinking of adding a pic of one of those anti-Che shirts from Che-Mart [1], but I don't know the legal status of such a picture.
Re the name change; I agree with you on the confusion thing, though I don't like "List of works". The best compromise here would be to call it as you suggested: "Che Guevara's published works", but for the sake of briefness, let's call it "Guevara's published works". Is that okay with you?
Re that unsourced sentence, I would prefer to have a sub-section on his philosophies regardless of that sentence's presence or not, for the sake of comprehensiveness and for the sake of satisfying some of the objectors to this article. However, that would only mean more work for you since you are the primary "author" of this article and probably the only one who knows enough to write abuot the subject. Thus the decision of removing it or keeping it is entirely up to you.
Another thing; an anon has removed your name change to the Early life section. I tend to support this decision, since "Family heritage and early life" is just too long, and the family heritage part is only one paragraph of the entire section and thus not important enough to include in the title. Also, a small edit war is occuring in which several users are adding the Category:Humanitarians to the article and several others removing it. What do you think? Thanks. Lord ViD 14:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi LordVid. That link on che-lives.com is very interesting. It seems that their basic motive, as explained in the abc.es article, is to seek to widen their appeal beyond their core group and that they think that wearing Che T-shirts will help them to do this. They either don't know about, or simply don't care about, the fact that he was totally opposed to all forms of fascism. This bizarre trend would seem to represent the latest, and most perverted, manifestation of the exploitation phenomenon. Polaris999 21:54, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
P.S. The "higher authority" I was thinking of seems to be the RfC process. But hopefully what you are going to write will obviate the need to go there ... Polaris999 21:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
P.P.S. Do you know Spanish so that you were able to read the abc.es? If not, I would be glad to do a Q&D translation for you ... Polaris999 22:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
More: I just came across the cover of Der Spiegel, #46 of 2005, presumably mid-November, which features Che and Gandhi on the cover and has as the caption: "The Inheritors of Gandhi and Guevara: Europe's Peaceful Revolutionaries". Maybe you could somehow merge this and the neo-nazi bit together explaining how his image is being utilized by (apparently) all sides in Germany. Here is a link to the image, in case you wish to use it: [3] Polaris999 00:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris. An anon has removed that Neo-Nazi sentence, I'll re-add it shortly when I have the material ready. Thank you the pic, and also, I will need that translation as my spanish is very bad. Perhaps more improtantly, a user has added two "citation needed" tags at two different statements in the "criticism" section. Lord ViD 15:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Polaris
Unfortunately, Che hasn't promoted to FA, I don't know why? I was an ardent supporter, but as usual, Raul never gave his reasons. I suppose it's about Che's legacy? Any plans now? Temporary account 04:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Again a section has been added that seems to be nothing more than an attack on Guevara: Che Guevara's involvement in the Cuban Revolution#Guevara's military tactics. I'm way out of my depth here, because I know little about the actual combat of the Cuban Revolution. However, it strikes me as unlikely the Guevara would have the reputation he has if he were nothing but a devious, incompetent coward; indeed, it is hard to understand why the devious, incompetent coward portrayed here would have sought more opportunities to place himself in combat. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Congratulations!!! In recognition for all your amazing work;
Where will you go from here? Will you keep editing this article? Or will you edit something else? As for me, my whole purpose was to get it up to FA status; now that this has happened, a few more finishing touches and then I'm gone. I'll still keep an eye on it though. It has been really amazing working with you. Best of luck, Lord ViD 15:29, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Please be wary of removing a reference link simply because it doesn't work one time. I just restored one you removed in Che Guevara, which worked fine for me. You should probably get a look at Wikipedia:Citing_source#What to do when a reference link "goes dead". You'll notice that in almost no case does it recommend outright deletion. - Jmabel | Talk 17:44, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Greetings! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you have questions or doubts of any sort, do not hesitate to post them on the Village Pump, somebody will respond ASAP. Other helpful pages include:
Have fun! -- Jiang 21:06 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
You may also want to specify that you are not me, nor in any way connected with me. (my usernumber is 9993.) -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 03:15 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)
got an email from you that began, "Thank you for your emails." far as i know, i've never sent you an email. i generally prefer to correspond only at wikipedia re articles, so that other editors can see what's being said. feel free to talk-page me if your email wasn't a mistake. thanks. SaltyPig 14:26, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
The changes that I wish to make in the header are purely factual ones, dates and places and one grammatical. Perhaps you have noticed that I have already done some editing on other sections of the page along the same lines. For reasons I do not fully understand, I occasionally seem to get logged in and out of wikipedia "spontaneously" and therefore some of the changes I have made recently do not have my signature on them. Since you mention having "tons" of objections to the article, you have probably noticed everything that I have, so I think that I will just wait for your presentation ... Thanks. Polaris999 07:51, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
You may be interested in Wikipedia:Dead external links. Wikipedia talk:Bots is the page to go to request permission to run a bot that edits live content, though for the task you indicate, read-only or even "offline" analysis using Wikipedia:Database downloads is probably sufficient. Good luck, Beland 03:10, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Could I ask you to have a good look at Che Guevara's involvement in the Cuban Revolution? All I really did there was to make sure its references were moved with it. But the Lamar Waldron / Thom Hartmann stuff strikes me as just weird. (Hartmann is so hit-or-miss...) I simply don't know enough about these weird little conspiracy theories to address them. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:07, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Re: those two citations on the exiles: I left the two words "Cuban exiles" instead of the long, self-congratulatory peroration. I say keep the citations: they are perfectly OK citations for what the now-appropriate sentence says. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for experimenting with template features, however I'll have to ask you to keep such testing in your userspace. I am moving "Template:Mytest889" and "Template:Mytest789" to {{ User:Polaris999/Mytest889}} and {{ User:Polaris999/Mytest789}}. You can use any page as a template, you just need to specify the namespace if it's anything other than "Template:". Have fun. — FREAK OF NURxTURE ( TALK) 07:12, Jan. 1, 2006
Hello, please use {{d}} or {{delete}} to nominate an article for speedy deletion without giving a reason, and {{db|stupid}} or {{deletebecause|pointless}} to nominate article for speedy deletion with a reason. r3m0t talk 00:11, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
See Talk:Che Guevara#Song of Roland?, where I had already commented on the issue you brought up at Talk:Basque people. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:08, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your continuing great work on this article. I don't have the time for it these days. Just wanted you to know it's appreciated. - Jmabel | Talk 20:03, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your kind words as well. I'm pretty plunged into work (spec'ing a rather flexible, integrated email/voicemail/fax system); I'm still probably managing 20 hours a week on Wikipedia, but that's not even enough to generally keep up with my watchlist. If there's anything specific where I can be of help, do let me know, but it's been pretty obvious that you know more about Guevara than I do.
Speaking of which, I just noticed that Che Guevara's involvement in the Cuban Revolution has recently accrued a lot of very anti-Guevara sentiment that can hardly even pretend to pass for neutral. Can I prevail upon you to take a look? Because this one needs more than I can give to it right now. - Jmabel | Talk 04:56, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I've added the info on his treatment of Bolivian prisoners compared to his own fate to the section on his death. I'm not quite sure how to put your info in...should it be included with this to back up the contrasts in treatment or should it be a seperate paragraph in the part about the insurgency? PJB 16:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
How does this sound?
Despite the violent nature of the conflict it might also be appropriate to mention that Che gave medical attention to all of the wounded Bolivian soldiers whom the guerrillas took prisoner, before releasing them. Even after his last battle at the Quebrada del Yuro, in which he had been wounded, when he was taken to a temporary holding location and saw there a number of Bolivian soldiers who had also been wounded in the battle, he offered to give them medical care (His offer was turned down by the Bolivian officer in charge.). Source: Paco Taibo Ignacio II.
I'm not sure if it sounds good? I think I need to tie it in more with the INSURGENCY section...what do you think? PJB 17:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry. You're right. Forgot about that case. -- TKD 06:29, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
You are, of course, completely right, since you are the one who has written the article, not I. I have read your idea and it seems like the best way to go; Let's leave the information about his beginning to play chess and his taking up photography in the "Youth" section, add the reference about him playing chess in Cuba and the pictures in Bolivia. Thanks. Lord ViD 05:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I actually thought the source given for the birthdate was lifted from that website, not the opposite. As for the chess comments, the place you put it in is perfect. I will also be looking into the source note malfunction. Thanks. Lord ViD 06:38, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I have done many changes since last time, hopefully for the better. Look at them and tell me if you object to any;
Finally, what do you say about adding Image:Ergstimecover1960.jpg to the article. If so, where shall we place it? Lord ViD 13:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply. As for the sentence troubling you, I'm going to take a shot at rewriting it. As for the Audio of pronounciation; that would be an excellent idea. Have you already found the sound byte? As for the Felix Rodriguez part; I ahve also done some research and found that he was not part of the invasion. I'm going to remove the part about him being a veteran of the invasion. Lord ViD 19:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
As for the sound byte, I will ask Spangineer, If he can't then we will probably have to put up a request for it. Regarding the hyperlink; you were perfectly right in removing it. :) Lord ViD 18:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Great work on those changes you made! I've rewritten the sentence according your suggestions and I've asked Spangineer for the audio clip; I'm waiting for his reply. Thanks! Lord ViD 18:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow, this has grown into a very long discussion! Anyway, I have a few things to discuss with you regarding the article;
Other than that, the article is looking perfect! Thanks. Lord ViD 10:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Good luck on the timeline; I won't be of any help since my technical skills aren't really that great, so I wouldn't know how to make a pop-up.
There's a question I've been meaning to ask you for a long time; when are you going to add your vote to the FAC page? I assumed you would be the first to do so since you're the major contributor to this article. Lord ViD 21:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the compliments on the topics, though I need your help in expanding some entries and removing some. I forgot, for example, that the 26th of July Movement was a group of people, and not a political event. So I wanted to ask you some questions;
1) Are Carlos Fonseca, Luis Carlos Prestes and Colegio Cesar Chavez really that relevant to Guevara? 2)Should we I add Communism to the topics, or should I remove Marxism/ Socialism, or should I leave everything as it is? 3)Do you know anything else I can add/remove?
As for the "Che the thinker", if you feel you would be able to make an article about the subject, then do so, and a brief summary could be added to the Che Guevara article, like the "Involvement" section. Thanks for adding your support! Lord ViD 15:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris..extremely sorry for the (very) late reply. Firstly, thank you for your advice; I have revised the template according to your suggestions. Secondly, you're right about that sentence; feel free to convert it into a source note if you wish. Lord ViD 15:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris, thank you for your advice. I don't feel comfortable adding the Sino-Soviet split, as I believe the events in the See also should be directly related to Guevara. I saw the picture of Guevara's birthplace, and I must say it's a very welcome addition and a great change from all those black and white photographs :-)
On a different note, something that has been bothering me with the article is the "Films and video games" section. Most of the video games listed are speculated to be references of Guevara, and I don't believe we need a list of every reference to Guevara in video games. I would like to omit this useless list. As for the films, my thought would be to move them to the support section, but that will break the tone and flow of the support section, so I would like to hear your thoughts on all this. Thanks. Lord ViD 14:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Polaris; I reverted the first paragraph of the lead because that "left wing mileu" thing didn't make sense and didn't seem relevant. I'm not as opposed to the other addition (that they killed him because they were worried about him escaping or being released later), though it could probably be worded better. What do you think? -- Spangineer (háblame) 22:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, you seem to have created this page as a placeholder for an article. This is not usual practice here, as normally we want to avoid self references in the encyclopedia, so I added a speedy tag to it. If you wish to start an actual article there, however, then please go ahead. Thanks. Flower party■ 02:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello LordViD: The previous topic has gotten so long that I thought it was time to start a new one! Very glad to hear that you like the photo of the house and its placement. I agree with you re keeping the "See also" section for articles directly related to Che. About what to do with the videogames section, I have mixed feelings. If it were to disappear, I personally would not mind at all; however, while working on this article over the past many months, I have observed that there are several users who every so often come on and add new titles, details, etc. to that section. I have the feeling that it must mean something to them and would therefore be hesitant about removing it completely. Re the films, I don't think that they can be moved in toto into the Support section because it is my understanding that some of them are not supportive, and, in general, it just doesn't seem to be the right place for them. Do you think it might be possible to convert the entire "In Films and videogames" section into a separate "daughter" article and then include it in the "See also" section as you have done with "Involvement"? Polaris999 16:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello again, LordViD -- I need to ask you about something else. Specifically, in the "Criticism" sub-section, there is a paragraph consisting of one sentence, to wit:
It is my understanding that one-sentence paragraphs are greatly deprecated by Wikipedia (and all other publishers with which I am familiar). I notice on the "Talk" page that someone raised the question as to whether the merchandising of anti-Che items should be considered a form of criticism. Anyway, my primary concern is the "orphan" paragraph and what to do about it ... Polaris999 23:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
P.S. If you have a chance, would you please take a look at the way the "Legacy" and "Criticism" sections are handled in John F. Kennedy to see if you think we might try to modify the CG article along similar lines? The "Legacy" section of Theodore Roosevelt is also interesting ... Polaris999 05:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Re the paragraph, I will have alook at it now and try to merge it.
As for the section organisation; are you suggesting that we merge "support" with "legacy" (with "popular culture" being a subsection), and move "criticsm" to its own section? That is fine by me and would probably improve the article. Lord ViD 21:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I fear this discussion will turn into a long one too! I have merged the orphan and restructured the sections per your suggestions. A few points come up now;
Thanks! :-) Lord ViD 22:10, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris. Like you said, I was thinking of adding a pic of one of those anti-Che shirts from Che-Mart [1], but I don't know the legal status of such a picture.
Re the name change; I agree with you on the confusion thing, though I don't like "List of works". The best compromise here would be to call it as you suggested: "Che Guevara's published works", but for the sake of briefness, let's call it "Guevara's published works". Is that okay with you?
Re that unsourced sentence, I would prefer to have a sub-section on his philosophies regardless of that sentence's presence or not, for the sake of comprehensiveness and for the sake of satisfying some of the objectors to this article. However, that would only mean more work for you since you are the primary "author" of this article and probably the only one who knows enough to write abuot the subject. Thus the decision of removing it or keeping it is entirely up to you.
Another thing; an anon has removed your name change to the Early life section. I tend to support this decision, since "Family heritage and early life" is just too long, and the family heritage part is only one paragraph of the entire section and thus not important enough to include in the title. Also, a small edit war is occuring in which several users are adding the Category:Humanitarians to the article and several others removing it. What do you think? Thanks. Lord ViD 14:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi LordVid. That link on che-lives.com is very interesting. It seems that their basic motive, as explained in the abc.es article, is to seek to widen their appeal beyond their core group and that they think that wearing Che T-shirts will help them to do this. They either don't know about, or simply don't care about, the fact that he was totally opposed to all forms of fascism. This bizarre trend would seem to represent the latest, and most perverted, manifestation of the exploitation phenomenon. Polaris999 21:54, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
P.S. The "higher authority" I was thinking of seems to be the RfC process. But hopefully what you are going to write will obviate the need to go there ... Polaris999 21:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
P.P.S. Do you know Spanish so that you were able to read the abc.es? If not, I would be glad to do a Q&D translation for you ... Polaris999 22:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
More: I just came across the cover of Der Spiegel, #46 of 2005, presumably mid-November, which features Che and Gandhi on the cover and has as the caption: "The Inheritors of Gandhi and Guevara: Europe's Peaceful Revolutionaries". Maybe you could somehow merge this and the neo-nazi bit together explaining how his image is being utilized by (apparently) all sides in Germany. Here is a link to the image, in case you wish to use it: [3] Polaris999 00:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Polaris. An anon has removed that Neo-Nazi sentence, I'll re-add it shortly when I have the material ready. Thank you the pic, and also, I will need that translation as my spanish is very bad. Perhaps more improtantly, a user has added two "citation needed" tags at two different statements in the "criticism" section. Lord ViD 15:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Polaris
Unfortunately, Che hasn't promoted to FA, I don't know why? I was an ardent supporter, but as usual, Raul never gave his reasons. I suppose it's about Che's legacy? Any plans now? Temporary account 04:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Again a section has been added that seems to be nothing more than an attack on Guevara: Che Guevara's involvement in the Cuban Revolution#Guevara's military tactics. I'm way out of my depth here, because I know little about the actual combat of the Cuban Revolution. However, it strikes me as unlikely the Guevara would have the reputation he has if he were nothing but a devious, incompetent coward; indeed, it is hard to understand why the devious, incompetent coward portrayed here would have sought more opportunities to place himself in combat. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Congratulations!!! In recognition for all your amazing work;
Where will you go from here? Will you keep editing this article? Or will you edit something else? As for me, my whole purpose was to get it up to FA status; now that this has happened, a few more finishing touches and then I'm gone. I'll still keep an eye on it though. It has been really amazing working with you. Best of luck, Lord ViD 15:29, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Please be wary of removing a reference link simply because it doesn't work one time. I just restored one you removed in Che Guevara, which worked fine for me. You should probably get a look at Wikipedia:Citing_source#What to do when a reference link "goes dead". You'll notice that in almost no case does it recommend outright deletion. - Jmabel | Talk 17:44, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
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