Just posting a short hello - not sure if I will make it back to check this page later.
Welcome! Don't worry about the talkback bit. Ogress smash! 21:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
After introducing the concept of Shia Islam and its various spellings, might it be a good idea to revert to a more Western spelling
- that is, without accent marks and such for the remainder of the article? (Shi'a -> Shia) PinkWorld ( talk) 04:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)Pink
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I am fully aware of how to sign my posts. My problem is that I forget to sign the posts until after I click "save page". *rolling eyes* I cannot believe that a bot can post actual posts.
PinkWorld (
talk)
23:47, 13 January 2009 (UTC)Pink
1. Which sandbox are you referring to, bro?
2. Ayatollahs can definitely be secular sources if they are accepted in the secular establishment as such. A good example is Tabatabai who wrote the brilliant book Shi'a Islam, one of the first comprehensive introductions to the Shi'a Islamic faith to the West. It is considered a wonderful secular work that is outside his work as a scholar within the Usuli school.
3. You can use old Britannica articles, and in fact really old ones are preferred because they are in the public domain now! The
Aga Khan I article takes advantage of this fact.
4. Eick, to be honest, even though I wrote most of the article on
Ismailism, I dislike how it turned out. It focuses way too much on history, I need to make heavy changes to it soon. I am also upset at how the
Twelver article is currently, I would like to work on that one as well. To be honest, I've suggested to other editors the article on Shi'a Islam with only a little work (basically making sure it satisfies
WP:NPOV and
WP:RS) could be an FA-class article. I think everyone did a very good job on it.
--
♥
pashtun ismailiyya
02:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Yep, California has a VERY large Iranian community. If I recall correctly, in Tehrangeles, around one third of the Iranians are Persian Jews. However, throughout California overall, we have Baha'i, Zoroastrians, molhed ( atheists), and of course Twelver Shi'a Muslims, who I think are the largest group after those who don't identify with any faith. When I used to work near Tehrangeles there was a Twelver Masjid nearby that was apparently the Iranian "star" masjid, where all the big Iranian actors, actresses, and musicians went. They were hadith rejectors but still distinctively Twelver Shi'a. It was nearly empty most of the year except on I believe the Nights of Destiny in Ramadan, where they actually had chaffeurs at the masjid. Also, when I used to do Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu, a boy who I taught, his father helped trained the Shah's forces against the revolutionary forces. And Imamate will be within beliefs, and insha'Allah tomorrow I'll organize the article so we can work on it. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 09:14, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes. You can also select two article dates and then compare them, and undo it that way too. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 06:26, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Looking forward to working with you on articles. Salam - Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 06:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Yeah. I mean, even I have an issue with al-Ghazzali who I pinpoint as the founder of modern traditional Sunni Islam, but even he wasn't moronic. The issue with Salafism is that no where in Islamic history can we find this form of radical Athari beliefs prevalent. Some say they don't have a madhab. all they need is the Qur'an and hadith, but then they forget that both the compiler of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim ascribed to madhabs... -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 08:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
I can't tell you what the state of Afghani culture is, really. In the West we do somewhat fine. But, our country has not had a chance to industrialize, we've been invaded by the Soviet Union which we defeated (the most powerful military in its day, only nation ever to do so), then invaded by the United States which put in a government run by a mafia, and have been in the Afghan Civil War for the past thirty years. I really don't know how Afghani culture is going to stand in the future, unlike Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, we have never had the chance to actually modernize our nation and see how our culture survives.
As a Muslimah, it is so frustrating and heart-breakening. I have seen Pashtuns and several other ethnic groups raise signs and chant for peace in Palestine, never once in my life have I seen an Arab go to a rally for peace in Afghanistan. When have Muslims ever thrown a peace rally for Afghanistan, made ribbons, made flags, and made chain letters that says Allah will curse you if you don't forward the e-mail to ten people by Asr time? Apparently eight Afghans are not worth one Palestenian (look up the populations of the respective states), and apparently Jews are a worse enemy than atheists. And none of it surprises me; in a poll in Arab countries, Arabs were asked to state whether they identify as Muslim, Arab, or their country of origin first. All countries chose Arab, except Lebanon, which identified as Lebanese first and foremost. This contrasts with my family's village in Pakistan that says, “Islam is the greatest of all religions,” and hardly identify as Pakistani at all. While Palestine might be an Islamic issue, it strikes me that 90% of the attention it is getting is from Arabs. In fact, an Arab-produced show that aired in the Middle-East was about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and about an Arab man who goes to fight and falls in love with a native girl. By the end of the series the protagonist realizes the ultimate truth; Afghanistan is a diversion from the true issue at hand: Palestine.
right|thumb|350px By the end of the Soviet Invasion over one-third of Afghanistan's population were refugees in Iran and Pakistan. Iran has gracefully dealt with this issue recently by proposing that they kick Afghanis out after years of denying them citizenship, health care, and education. The second largest city in Afghanistan, Kandahar, which once had 200,000 inhabitants, was left with 25,000. One out of every thirty people in Afghanistan are still disabled because of the war. By the end of the war child mortality was 31%, I don't believe it has ever been that high in Palestine. All this happened, but the Muslim world was mostly silent; Palestine, a much smaller nation population-wise, which didn't produce a tenth of the influence Afghanistan had on Islam, was more important. Palestine is important, but how could you compare it to Afghanistan in terms of sheer human life, in terms of aggression? One can say the start of aggressions between the newly arrived Jewish immigrants in Israel and its Arab inhabitants were muddy, in fact, it was the Muslim community which first started violent acts which escalated. But you cannot say the same for Afghanistan being invaded by the two greatest world powers in its day and being ruthlessly ruled by Deobandis in between invasions.
Mahmoud Ahmedenijad is worried about wiping Israel off the map. He states that in the news to the evil Western powers, and he meets the lovely Saudi king, and tries to cross Sunni-Shi'a borders. But forget the ethnic Twelver Shi'a Pashtuns being massacred in North Pakistan by the reformed Taliban. Ethnic Shi'a Pashtuns are in low numbers, and intermarriage, genocide, and deculturalization means that in a few centuries we may not exist at all, even I have given hope of marrying a Pashtun Shi'a to continue our heritage. Forget that though, let's try to make Sunnis like us.
The rant is over, and I'll go on to answer your question. We have produced the likes of Ibn Sina, Rumi, and even perhaps Abu Hanifa's family. To give an educated guess, I feel that the Persian-speaking and Shi'a parts will lean towards Westernization while the Pasho-speaking parts will lean away from Westernization but accept modernization. I hope that these cancel each other out, so that we have a Persian nation that has not abandoned its culture, unlike Westernized Iran and Sovietized Tajikistan. As for reverts, I can't interact with the ones who adopt Arab culture. The ones who adopt Desi culture are often very sociable and fun, and to be honest, I feel they understand Islam much better in that how it interacts with our lives as opposed to those who adopt an Arab view. The revert I liked the best was by far a revert who didn't adopt any culture at all, he was a normal Mexican-American and we would argue whether the West coast or the East coast was better. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 10:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your note. Of course I would be interested in seeing your sources. Please paste tem on the talk page in the section on medical facilities at the top of the page. Salamat. Tiamut talk 14:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
And the section on the talk page is in archive 16 (Wow!).
I've tagged around four sections under Beliefs that I need you to expand. In general, these beliefs do not differ much among groups, and where they do, I will simply slightly edit whatever you write. I have also started a similiar overhaul on Ismailism (but since I am generally the only person working on it I am going to update it all at once instead a little at a time), I am hoping insha'Allah that perhaps by the end of the year Ismailism and a new article/list I wish to write, Imams of Ismailism, will be FA-Class articles, meaning they are the best articles on the Wikipedia project. The Twelve Imams is the only article/list related to Shi'a Islam that I know has achieved this level of quality, and it was mainly worked on by User:Sa.vakilian and myself. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 09:15, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
The name Tabatabaei (Ṭabāṭabā'ī, طباطبائی) is so cool I ended up reorganising the article on it and linking all the famous Tabatabaeis' webpages. It is a reduplication of a word of uncertain origin meaning "scholar". Its origin as a name is uncertain; it might be Aramaic or it might be from some settled Jahili Arabic dialect. Also, it's a hamza. :-) Ogress smash! 02:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --
SineBot (
talk)
05:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Thought I'd swing by and say peace. I'm one of those non-assimilating converts; my idea of a good headcovering is a Mexican straw cowboy hat and my "shalwar kameez" are jeans and a button-down with some doc marten "khuff". Heh. Anyway, peace! as we say in English.
I do like goat, although admittedly that's probably because my da's Irish. But who doesn't like Indian? Ogress smash! 02:13, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
wa alaikum assalam,
This pic best exemplifies the effects of the assault, but the pic along with other pics from the AP bank are under the all rights reserved copyright, so we can't use them. -- Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 23:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC) Salam thanks for the link! Is this your web site? -- Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 06:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks again. I think you are off to good start, and I look forward to future developments. -- Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 08:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the links. I will start delving into them soon and adding info where appropriate. Sorry for the delay in responding. Ya'atikil aafiya. Tiamut talk 12:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Salaam `alaykum, thanks for your hard work, I can't wait! -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 05:19, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
You know that time in every brown girl's life where she has to like, make herself worthy for a future as some hairy man's housewife? Yep, my time has come! Aside from a few articles, I will be drastically cutting my involvement on Wikipedia soon, so we'll go through whatever lasting things I can help you with. Any ideas in particular? -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 05:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
The changes are good! This is a very good editor, and I suggest you work with him quite often, he can help in so many ways. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 05:58, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
For the very good resources you posted online. I still have not had a chance to make use of them, but promise that I will at some point down the line. Very kind of you to think of me though. Cheers, Tiamut talk 15:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Just posting a short hello - not sure if I will make it back to check this page later.
Welcome! Don't worry about the talkback bit. Ogress smash! 21:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
After introducing the concept of Shia Islam and its various spellings, might it be a good idea to revert to a more Western spelling
- that is, without accent marks and such for the remainder of the article? (Shi'a -> Shia) PinkWorld ( talk) 04:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)Pink
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --
SineBot (
talk)
09:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
My dearest SineBot
I am fully aware of how to sign my posts. My problem is that I forget to sign the posts until after I click "save page". *rolling eyes* I cannot believe that a bot can post actual posts.
PinkWorld (
talk)
23:47, 13 January 2009 (UTC)Pink
1. Which sandbox are you referring to, bro?
2. Ayatollahs can definitely be secular sources if they are accepted in the secular establishment as such. A good example is Tabatabai who wrote the brilliant book Shi'a Islam, one of the first comprehensive introductions to the Shi'a Islamic faith to the West. It is considered a wonderful secular work that is outside his work as a scholar within the Usuli school.
3. You can use old Britannica articles, and in fact really old ones are preferred because they are in the public domain now! The
Aga Khan I article takes advantage of this fact.
4. Eick, to be honest, even though I wrote most of the article on
Ismailism, I dislike how it turned out. It focuses way too much on history, I need to make heavy changes to it soon. I am also upset at how the
Twelver article is currently, I would like to work on that one as well. To be honest, I've suggested to other editors the article on Shi'a Islam with only a little work (basically making sure it satisfies
WP:NPOV and
WP:RS) could be an FA-class article. I think everyone did a very good job on it.
--
♥
pashtun ismailiyya
02:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Yep, California has a VERY large Iranian community. If I recall correctly, in Tehrangeles, around one third of the Iranians are Persian Jews. However, throughout California overall, we have Baha'i, Zoroastrians, molhed ( atheists), and of course Twelver Shi'a Muslims, who I think are the largest group after those who don't identify with any faith. When I used to work near Tehrangeles there was a Twelver Masjid nearby that was apparently the Iranian "star" masjid, where all the big Iranian actors, actresses, and musicians went. They were hadith rejectors but still distinctively Twelver Shi'a. It was nearly empty most of the year except on I believe the Nights of Destiny in Ramadan, where they actually had chaffeurs at the masjid. Also, when I used to do Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu, a boy who I taught, his father helped trained the Shah's forces against the revolutionary forces. And Imamate will be within beliefs, and insha'Allah tomorrow I'll organize the article so we can work on it. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 09:14, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes. You can also select two article dates and then compare them, and undo it that way too. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 06:26, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Looking forward to working with you on articles. Salam - Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 06:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Yeah. I mean, even I have an issue with al-Ghazzali who I pinpoint as the founder of modern traditional Sunni Islam, but even he wasn't moronic. The issue with Salafism is that no where in Islamic history can we find this form of radical Athari beliefs prevalent. Some say they don't have a madhab. all they need is the Qur'an and hadith, but then they forget that both the compiler of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim ascribed to madhabs... -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 08:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
I can't tell you what the state of Afghani culture is, really. In the West we do somewhat fine. But, our country has not had a chance to industrialize, we've been invaded by the Soviet Union which we defeated (the most powerful military in its day, only nation ever to do so), then invaded by the United States which put in a government run by a mafia, and have been in the Afghan Civil War for the past thirty years. I really don't know how Afghani culture is going to stand in the future, unlike Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, we have never had the chance to actually modernize our nation and see how our culture survives.
As a Muslimah, it is so frustrating and heart-breakening. I have seen Pashtuns and several other ethnic groups raise signs and chant for peace in Palestine, never once in my life have I seen an Arab go to a rally for peace in Afghanistan. When have Muslims ever thrown a peace rally for Afghanistan, made ribbons, made flags, and made chain letters that says Allah will curse you if you don't forward the e-mail to ten people by Asr time? Apparently eight Afghans are not worth one Palestenian (look up the populations of the respective states), and apparently Jews are a worse enemy than atheists. And none of it surprises me; in a poll in Arab countries, Arabs were asked to state whether they identify as Muslim, Arab, or their country of origin first. All countries chose Arab, except Lebanon, which identified as Lebanese first and foremost. This contrasts with my family's village in Pakistan that says, “Islam is the greatest of all religions,” and hardly identify as Pakistani at all. While Palestine might be an Islamic issue, it strikes me that 90% of the attention it is getting is from Arabs. In fact, an Arab-produced show that aired in the Middle-East was about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and about an Arab man who goes to fight and falls in love with a native girl. By the end of the series the protagonist realizes the ultimate truth; Afghanistan is a diversion from the true issue at hand: Palestine.
right|thumb|350px By the end of the Soviet Invasion over one-third of Afghanistan's population were refugees in Iran and Pakistan. Iran has gracefully dealt with this issue recently by proposing that they kick Afghanis out after years of denying them citizenship, health care, and education. The second largest city in Afghanistan, Kandahar, which once had 200,000 inhabitants, was left with 25,000. One out of every thirty people in Afghanistan are still disabled because of the war. By the end of the war child mortality was 31%, I don't believe it has ever been that high in Palestine. All this happened, but the Muslim world was mostly silent; Palestine, a much smaller nation population-wise, which didn't produce a tenth of the influence Afghanistan had on Islam, was more important. Palestine is important, but how could you compare it to Afghanistan in terms of sheer human life, in terms of aggression? One can say the start of aggressions between the newly arrived Jewish immigrants in Israel and its Arab inhabitants were muddy, in fact, it was the Muslim community which first started violent acts which escalated. But you cannot say the same for Afghanistan being invaded by the two greatest world powers in its day and being ruthlessly ruled by Deobandis in between invasions.
Mahmoud Ahmedenijad is worried about wiping Israel off the map. He states that in the news to the evil Western powers, and he meets the lovely Saudi king, and tries to cross Sunni-Shi'a borders. But forget the ethnic Twelver Shi'a Pashtuns being massacred in North Pakistan by the reformed Taliban. Ethnic Shi'a Pashtuns are in low numbers, and intermarriage, genocide, and deculturalization means that in a few centuries we may not exist at all, even I have given hope of marrying a Pashtun Shi'a to continue our heritage. Forget that though, let's try to make Sunnis like us.
The rant is over, and I'll go on to answer your question. We have produced the likes of Ibn Sina, Rumi, and even perhaps Abu Hanifa's family. To give an educated guess, I feel that the Persian-speaking and Shi'a parts will lean towards Westernization while the Pasho-speaking parts will lean away from Westernization but accept modernization. I hope that these cancel each other out, so that we have a Persian nation that has not abandoned its culture, unlike Westernized Iran and Sovietized Tajikistan. As for reverts, I can't interact with the ones who adopt Arab culture. The ones who adopt Desi culture are often very sociable and fun, and to be honest, I feel they understand Islam much better in that how it interacts with our lives as opposed to those who adopt an Arab view. The revert I liked the best was by far a revert who didn't adopt any culture at all, he was a normal Mexican-American and we would argue whether the West coast or the East coast was better. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 10:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your note. Of course I would be interested in seeing your sources. Please paste tem on the talk page in the section on medical facilities at the top of the page. Salamat. Tiamut talk 14:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
And the section on the talk page is in archive 16 (Wow!).
I've tagged around four sections under Beliefs that I need you to expand. In general, these beliefs do not differ much among groups, and where they do, I will simply slightly edit whatever you write. I have also started a similiar overhaul on Ismailism (but since I am generally the only person working on it I am going to update it all at once instead a little at a time), I am hoping insha'Allah that perhaps by the end of the year Ismailism and a new article/list I wish to write, Imams of Ismailism, will be FA-Class articles, meaning they are the best articles on the Wikipedia project. The Twelve Imams is the only article/list related to Shi'a Islam that I know has achieved this level of quality, and it was mainly worked on by User:Sa.vakilian and myself. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 09:15, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
The name Tabatabaei (Ṭabāṭabā'ī, طباطبائی) is so cool I ended up reorganising the article on it and linking all the famous Tabatabaeis' webpages. It is a reduplication of a word of uncertain origin meaning "scholar". Its origin as a name is uncertain; it might be Aramaic or it might be from some settled Jahili Arabic dialect. Also, it's a hamza. :-) Ogress smash! 02:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --
SineBot (
talk)
05:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Thought I'd swing by and say peace. I'm one of those non-assimilating converts; my idea of a good headcovering is a Mexican straw cowboy hat and my "shalwar kameez" are jeans and a button-down with some doc marten "khuff". Heh. Anyway, peace! as we say in English.
I do like goat, although admittedly that's probably because my da's Irish. But who doesn't like Indian? Ogress smash! 02:13, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
wa alaikum assalam,
This pic best exemplifies the effects of the assault, but the pic along with other pics from the AP bank are under the all rights reserved copyright, so we can't use them. -- Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 23:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC) Salam thanks for the link! Is this your web site? -- Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 06:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks again. I think you are off to good start, and I look forward to future developments. -- Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 08:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the links. I will start delving into them soon and adding info where appropriate. Sorry for the delay in responding. Ya'atikil aafiya. Tiamut talk 12:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Salaam `alaykum, thanks for your hard work, I can't wait! -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 05:19, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
You know that time in every brown girl's life where she has to like, make herself worthy for a future as some hairy man's housewife? Yep, my time has come! Aside from a few articles, I will be drastically cutting my involvement on Wikipedia soon, so we'll go through whatever lasting things I can help you with. Any ideas in particular? -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 05:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
The changes are good! This is a very good editor, and I suggest you work with him quite often, he can help in so many ways. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya 05:58, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
For the very good resources you posted online. I still have not had a chance to make use of them, but promise that I will at some point down the line. Very kind of you to think of me though. Cheers, Tiamut talk 15:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC)