![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I note that you have converted several pages into "hardcoded" image size version, however at the same time you have changed (for example Springburn railway station) from SPT to UK station. This has resulted in the loss of the SPT category and the mention of SPT in the infobox (using the pte). I am sure this was an oversight on your part. -- Stewart (talk) 21:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I just thought it should be moved to disambiguate it from other stations with that name and it seems that most station articles take the name in which the stations were named just before they closed, so i have seen. Simply south ( talk) 16:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Was there today, and got the impression that it was very recent (last few weeks)as there was still the access signage in place from the A736, heavy plant at the bottom, and what looked like recent disturbance of the embankments.
Which was the other viaduct towards Giffen which was demolished earlier? -- Stewart (talk) 21:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Re your recent revert (which I have left untouched), please see the talk page of the article for a possible solution to any accusation of linkspam. Mjroots ( talk) 10:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Very handy, will save some time when I'm changing colours and won't have to keep copying the code to clipboard. What is your technique for working out the 'lighter' colour? You mentioned something before about 'adding 2' but not sure how that works when I compare a standard colour with its light equivalent. Was trying to work out the light code for solid black for British Rail lines. --- Dreamer 84 11:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Stewart,
I was going around tagging articles, when I came across this orphaned article. I'm not really convinced that it is needed as a standalone article, but its not really covered in the Argyle Line - possible paste into the Argyle Line article and delete? Any thoughts? Pyrotec ( talk) 19:24, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Whoops, thanks for sorting that. --- Dreamer 84 19:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thanks for tidying up the references, after the mess i left! i'm still having a bit of difficulty trying to tie references to the same source Kilnburn ( talk) 22:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Are you sure? My reading of both Google Earth and Ordnance Survey gives what I see as the WHR passing under the Cambrian to the right (east) of Porthmadog station and what appears to be a minor road level crossing. If I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time (as you know LOL) but.. I'll have another look myself shortly. Getting it right is the important thing. Britmax ( talk) 15:25, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes you seem to be right they even had to pay the Cambrian to use it. I will need to sort out the relationship between the WHR and the Festiniog at Porthmadog as they clearly cannot join up at the harbour station with thw WHR coming from the south. I think there was a yard to the south of the crossing over the river from the Harbour Station but this is going to need some digging. Thanks for putting me right. Britmax ( talk) 16:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Just to say, I've made a few changes to the two Whishaw book templates: there was a reprint of the book in 1842 which makes the 1969 at least the 3rd edition of the book. Since the 2nd edition is available via Google Books, has (as far as I know) no changes to the text but does have some additional plates at the back, I think this would be a better reference than the 1840 edition. --- Dreamer 84 11:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Image redirects haven't really worked for years. They only sorta work at this moment, but certainly not to images that don't exist. WP:CSD#R1 is the policy on broken redirects (redirects to pages that don't exist). They are regularly deleted, sometimes by human administrators, occasionally by a bot. Please do not continue to create broken redirects. Cheers. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 18:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Evening Stewart. While creating a Troon disambig article I seem to have gotten myself confused. On the line with the original GPK&A Troon station, I was mistakenly under the impression that Troon Goods was to the north of the closed passenger station, but now I realise from OS maps that infact they were on the exact same site (I will redo the map in a bit). However, the OS maps also show a large collection of sidings and buildings to the north (which I thought was Troon Goods), just south of Barassie Junction, marked "Carriage and Wagon Works". Could this place be what the Butt directory calls "Barassie Workshops"? I dont have a copy of Jowett handy to check but I believe Butt references a Jowett map for the workshops. Those sidings are still in place I believe, though dont know if they, or the big long track that almost goes to the old Troon station, ever get any use.
Another question, do you know anything about the so called Newtonhead station? It was supposedly on the Monkton to Annbank Branch according to Stansfield, but aside from a listing in Butt there is no other reference to it, and it doesn't seem to appear on any map. --- Dreamer 84 19:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I've made a start on a diagram for the Thames Clyde Express here. Having noticed your interest in Scottish lines I would welcome any comments and suggestions you may have. Britmax ( talk) 19:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reverts, I would have done it myself! Sorry for the changes but I couldn't see where the bridge was going to go. I'm going to leave this one alone for a while as my cynical views of the limitations of railway preservation projects are obviously left behind by this one. I've rarely been so happy to be wrong about something, though. My invitation to comment on the fledgling attempt to give the Thames - Clyde Express a diagram still stands. Britmax ( talk) 20:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
He's popped up again as User:ShakespearesZombie. I've left a comment on dave souza's talk page. --- Dreamer 84 08:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Template:CRcolour has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. RichardΩ612 Ɣ | ɸ 21:56, May 14, 2008 (UTC)
As you've probably noticed I've been trying to get Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway up to GA status (and hopefully eventually FA status), but the Cook Street Bridge reference has reared its head again as an issue (see our previous discussion here). The reference needs to be fixed before the GA can be passed, or alternatively we perhaps could hide the sentence as a comment until an exact source is tracked down? I'm also keen to hear if you have any suggestions for improving the article. I intend next to work on expanding the LMS days section and to get some rolling stock info put in for that period as well as the G&SW era. Some period photographs are also a must I think. --- Dreamer 84 19:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, List of farmers' markets in the United Kingdom, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of farmers' markets in the United Kingdom. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? TerriersFan ( talk) 21:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Stewart,
The preamble to our St Mary's Constitution says that the congregation was founded by Alexander Duncan in 1715. This therefore can be regarded as the source. Perhaps more interesting is where the writers of the Constitution got this information from. It seems they got it from Dr James Gordon, a Glasgow historian in the 19th century (also, the priest at St Andrew's-by-the-Green), who got it from an earlier Glasgow historian called James Cleland writing in 1816. The reason I did not add references was because they are the ones on the page I created for Alexander Duncan, which also includes a brief summary of Glasgow's Episcopalian congregation during his lifetime.
In outline, from Diestablishment in 1689, Episcopalians met in various locations, such as Provost Sir John Bell's lodging (1703), Paisley Abbey(!)(1710), a meeting house location unknown (1712-14), a house in Bell Street, another meeting house in Broad Close, High Street, Candleriggs, Stockwell Street, whilst they were proscribed. Proscription ended in 1792, and from 1799 they rented a room in the Grammar School until they could build Old St Mary's in Renfield Street in 1825.
I have just completed my research on the early Episcopalians of Glasgow, as 52 pages of text, and can bore for Scotland on the subject. I propose to expand the history section, although probably not before I head for warmer climes next week.
Regards, Roger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clydekelvin ( talk • contribs) 17:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Stewart
The most important thing to remember is that because of the penal laws, etc., there is no continuous record of the congregation, so it is a question of trawling for information, and hoping for the best. Most of the standard history is based on secondary sources, primarily in the 19th century, and they distort. Particularly, Wodrow's early letters were not published until the 20th century, by which time the standard history had already been formulated.
The earliest contemporary reference to Glasgow's Episcopalians comes from Robert Wodrow, and dates from January 1703 when there was a riot following a sermon preached to mark King Charles the Martyr day. Wodrow writes that "We had on Saturday last, January 30, a preaching by Mr Hay in Provost Bell's lodgings. The rabble and some collegians disturbed them and broke all their windows, till the magistrates and Principal dispersed them . . . The Episcopal ministers had a meeting the night before wherein Mr Fullarton opposed their preaching in town or, at least, openly. He told them this was an incensing of the people and giving them an occasion of making a riot. He advised them to go out to Barrowfield and preach there. &c"
Wodrow was the minister of Eaglesham, and it seems he relish recording gossip, and stories putting the Episcopalians in a bad light, so it's as well to treat his evidence with caution. How, for instance, does he know what happened at the meeting the night before as he can't have been there in person?
There are, however, a number of inferences we can reasonably make from his comments.
1. He expresses no surprise that there are Episcopalians in Glasgow, which suggests that they are well established. 2. It seems that in meeting in Provost Bell's lodging to mark King Charles the Martyr, the Episcopalians were being quite aggressive. 3. It seems that Barrowfield provided a safer and less aggressive haven for the Episcopalian community. 4. It seems that there were a number of clergy present: Mr Hay, Mr Fullarton and others unidentified. And, again, this is not regarded by Wodrow as unusual. 4. The year 1703 is significant because it is the first King Charles the Martyr day since the death of William III, and it seems that Episcopalians hoped that their treatment under Anne would be more tolerant, so there is an element of poking their heads above the parapet, after keeping hidden since 1689.
There is a list of congregation members dated 1713, and this makes it pretty clear that there was an Episcopalian presence in Glasgow continuously from Disestablishment.
So, where does the date 1715 come from?
Here is how the preamble to the Cathedral Constitution starts:
"Whereas the Members of the Church of Scotland disestablished shortly after the Revolution on 1688 regularly met for public worship in Glasgow after the Revolution, and the Reverend Alexander Duncan, subsequently Bishop of Glasgow, presided over them as Minister in the year 1715; and whereas the Congregation has been uninterruptedly continued under regular Episcopal jurisdiction, and whereas in the year 1823, the Congregation was then under the pastoral care of the Reverend Alexander Jamieson and of the Reverend George Almond as his Assistant and Successor, and in 1824, a piece of ground was purchased on the east side of Renfield Street, and a Church erected thereon, to which was given the name of Saint Mary, which was opened for public worship on the 22nd day of May 1825, under a special licence from the Right Reverend Daniel Sandford, D.D. Bishop of the Diocese, &c."
So, the first priest mentioned in relation to the congregation is Alexander Duncan in 1715. This information may come from a memory or lost record within the congregation, or it may come from the anthologist historian Dr Gordon, who got it from Cleland. Cleland may have got it from Jamieson (Cleland quotes the size of Jamieson's stipend, which suggests they had some sort of contact). The problem is that whilst this date is citable, whereas 1688/89 cannot be cited, I reckon it is wrong.
I will e-mail to you a copy of my historical researches to the bonnyton address.
Roger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clydekelvin ( talk • contribs) 22:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the remarks. I am thinking along these lines (no pun intended) and will look at the articles you suggest for ideas. Britmax ( talk) 06:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I must go to work now but HERE you will find the first work towards a disambig page. Comments welcome. Britmax ( talk) 08:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Stewart. Thanks for spotting that. I've replied on my talkpage. Pyrotec ( talk) 16:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello, you've got an answer on commons:Image talk:Class 303 at Wemyss Bay (April 1984).jpg. Regards, → Spiritia 15:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I note that you have converted several pages into "hardcoded" image size version, however at the same time you have changed (for example Springburn railway station) from SPT to UK station. This has resulted in the loss of the SPT category and the mention of SPT in the infobox (using the pte). I am sure this was an oversight on your part. -- Stewart (talk) 21:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I just thought it should be moved to disambiguate it from other stations with that name and it seems that most station articles take the name in which the stations were named just before they closed, so i have seen. Simply south ( talk) 16:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Was there today, and got the impression that it was very recent (last few weeks)as there was still the access signage in place from the A736, heavy plant at the bottom, and what looked like recent disturbance of the embankments.
Which was the other viaduct towards Giffen which was demolished earlier? -- Stewart (talk) 21:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Re your recent revert (which I have left untouched), please see the talk page of the article for a possible solution to any accusation of linkspam. Mjroots ( talk) 10:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Very handy, will save some time when I'm changing colours and won't have to keep copying the code to clipboard. What is your technique for working out the 'lighter' colour? You mentioned something before about 'adding 2' but not sure how that works when I compare a standard colour with its light equivalent. Was trying to work out the light code for solid black for British Rail lines. --- Dreamer 84 11:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Stewart,
I was going around tagging articles, when I came across this orphaned article. I'm not really convinced that it is needed as a standalone article, but its not really covered in the Argyle Line - possible paste into the Argyle Line article and delete? Any thoughts? Pyrotec ( talk) 19:24, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Whoops, thanks for sorting that. --- Dreamer 84 19:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thanks for tidying up the references, after the mess i left! i'm still having a bit of difficulty trying to tie references to the same source Kilnburn ( talk) 22:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Are you sure? My reading of both Google Earth and Ordnance Survey gives what I see as the WHR passing under the Cambrian to the right (east) of Porthmadog station and what appears to be a minor road level crossing. If I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time (as you know LOL) but.. I'll have another look myself shortly. Getting it right is the important thing. Britmax ( talk) 15:25, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes you seem to be right they even had to pay the Cambrian to use it. I will need to sort out the relationship between the WHR and the Festiniog at Porthmadog as they clearly cannot join up at the harbour station with thw WHR coming from the south. I think there was a yard to the south of the crossing over the river from the Harbour Station but this is going to need some digging. Thanks for putting me right. Britmax ( talk) 16:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Just to say, I've made a few changes to the two Whishaw book templates: there was a reprint of the book in 1842 which makes the 1969 at least the 3rd edition of the book. Since the 2nd edition is available via Google Books, has (as far as I know) no changes to the text but does have some additional plates at the back, I think this would be a better reference than the 1840 edition. --- Dreamer 84 11:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Image redirects haven't really worked for years. They only sorta work at this moment, but certainly not to images that don't exist. WP:CSD#R1 is the policy on broken redirects (redirects to pages that don't exist). They are regularly deleted, sometimes by human administrators, occasionally by a bot. Please do not continue to create broken redirects. Cheers. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 18:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Evening Stewart. While creating a Troon disambig article I seem to have gotten myself confused. On the line with the original GPK&A Troon station, I was mistakenly under the impression that Troon Goods was to the north of the closed passenger station, but now I realise from OS maps that infact they were on the exact same site (I will redo the map in a bit). However, the OS maps also show a large collection of sidings and buildings to the north (which I thought was Troon Goods), just south of Barassie Junction, marked "Carriage and Wagon Works". Could this place be what the Butt directory calls "Barassie Workshops"? I dont have a copy of Jowett handy to check but I believe Butt references a Jowett map for the workshops. Those sidings are still in place I believe, though dont know if they, or the big long track that almost goes to the old Troon station, ever get any use.
Another question, do you know anything about the so called Newtonhead station? It was supposedly on the Monkton to Annbank Branch according to Stansfield, but aside from a listing in Butt there is no other reference to it, and it doesn't seem to appear on any map. --- Dreamer 84 19:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I've made a start on a diagram for the Thames Clyde Express here. Having noticed your interest in Scottish lines I would welcome any comments and suggestions you may have. Britmax ( talk) 19:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reverts, I would have done it myself! Sorry for the changes but I couldn't see where the bridge was going to go. I'm going to leave this one alone for a while as my cynical views of the limitations of railway preservation projects are obviously left behind by this one. I've rarely been so happy to be wrong about something, though. My invitation to comment on the fledgling attempt to give the Thames - Clyde Express a diagram still stands. Britmax ( talk) 20:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
He's popped up again as User:ShakespearesZombie. I've left a comment on dave souza's talk page. --- Dreamer 84 08:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Template:CRcolour has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. RichardΩ612 Ɣ | ɸ 21:56, May 14, 2008 (UTC)
As you've probably noticed I've been trying to get Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway up to GA status (and hopefully eventually FA status), but the Cook Street Bridge reference has reared its head again as an issue (see our previous discussion here). The reference needs to be fixed before the GA can be passed, or alternatively we perhaps could hide the sentence as a comment until an exact source is tracked down? I'm also keen to hear if you have any suggestions for improving the article. I intend next to work on expanding the LMS days section and to get some rolling stock info put in for that period as well as the G&SW era. Some period photographs are also a must I think. --- Dreamer 84 19:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, List of farmers' markets in the United Kingdom, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of farmers' markets in the United Kingdom. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? TerriersFan ( talk) 21:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Stewart,
The preamble to our St Mary's Constitution says that the congregation was founded by Alexander Duncan in 1715. This therefore can be regarded as the source. Perhaps more interesting is where the writers of the Constitution got this information from. It seems they got it from Dr James Gordon, a Glasgow historian in the 19th century (also, the priest at St Andrew's-by-the-Green), who got it from an earlier Glasgow historian called James Cleland writing in 1816. The reason I did not add references was because they are the ones on the page I created for Alexander Duncan, which also includes a brief summary of Glasgow's Episcopalian congregation during his lifetime.
In outline, from Diestablishment in 1689, Episcopalians met in various locations, such as Provost Sir John Bell's lodging (1703), Paisley Abbey(!)(1710), a meeting house location unknown (1712-14), a house in Bell Street, another meeting house in Broad Close, High Street, Candleriggs, Stockwell Street, whilst they were proscribed. Proscription ended in 1792, and from 1799 they rented a room in the Grammar School until they could build Old St Mary's in Renfield Street in 1825.
I have just completed my research on the early Episcopalians of Glasgow, as 52 pages of text, and can bore for Scotland on the subject. I propose to expand the history section, although probably not before I head for warmer climes next week.
Regards, Roger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clydekelvin ( talk • contribs) 17:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Stewart
The most important thing to remember is that because of the penal laws, etc., there is no continuous record of the congregation, so it is a question of trawling for information, and hoping for the best. Most of the standard history is based on secondary sources, primarily in the 19th century, and they distort. Particularly, Wodrow's early letters were not published until the 20th century, by which time the standard history had already been formulated.
The earliest contemporary reference to Glasgow's Episcopalians comes from Robert Wodrow, and dates from January 1703 when there was a riot following a sermon preached to mark King Charles the Martyr day. Wodrow writes that "We had on Saturday last, January 30, a preaching by Mr Hay in Provost Bell's lodgings. The rabble and some collegians disturbed them and broke all their windows, till the magistrates and Principal dispersed them . . . The Episcopal ministers had a meeting the night before wherein Mr Fullarton opposed their preaching in town or, at least, openly. He told them this was an incensing of the people and giving them an occasion of making a riot. He advised them to go out to Barrowfield and preach there. &c"
Wodrow was the minister of Eaglesham, and it seems he relish recording gossip, and stories putting the Episcopalians in a bad light, so it's as well to treat his evidence with caution. How, for instance, does he know what happened at the meeting the night before as he can't have been there in person?
There are, however, a number of inferences we can reasonably make from his comments.
1. He expresses no surprise that there are Episcopalians in Glasgow, which suggests that they are well established. 2. It seems that in meeting in Provost Bell's lodging to mark King Charles the Martyr, the Episcopalians were being quite aggressive. 3. It seems that Barrowfield provided a safer and less aggressive haven for the Episcopalian community. 4. It seems that there were a number of clergy present: Mr Hay, Mr Fullarton and others unidentified. And, again, this is not regarded by Wodrow as unusual. 4. The year 1703 is significant because it is the first King Charles the Martyr day since the death of William III, and it seems that Episcopalians hoped that their treatment under Anne would be more tolerant, so there is an element of poking their heads above the parapet, after keeping hidden since 1689.
There is a list of congregation members dated 1713, and this makes it pretty clear that there was an Episcopalian presence in Glasgow continuously from Disestablishment.
So, where does the date 1715 come from?
Here is how the preamble to the Cathedral Constitution starts:
"Whereas the Members of the Church of Scotland disestablished shortly after the Revolution on 1688 regularly met for public worship in Glasgow after the Revolution, and the Reverend Alexander Duncan, subsequently Bishop of Glasgow, presided over them as Minister in the year 1715; and whereas the Congregation has been uninterruptedly continued under regular Episcopal jurisdiction, and whereas in the year 1823, the Congregation was then under the pastoral care of the Reverend Alexander Jamieson and of the Reverend George Almond as his Assistant and Successor, and in 1824, a piece of ground was purchased on the east side of Renfield Street, and a Church erected thereon, to which was given the name of Saint Mary, which was opened for public worship on the 22nd day of May 1825, under a special licence from the Right Reverend Daniel Sandford, D.D. Bishop of the Diocese, &c."
So, the first priest mentioned in relation to the congregation is Alexander Duncan in 1715. This information may come from a memory or lost record within the congregation, or it may come from the anthologist historian Dr Gordon, who got it from Cleland. Cleland may have got it from Jamieson (Cleland quotes the size of Jamieson's stipend, which suggests they had some sort of contact). The problem is that whilst this date is citable, whereas 1688/89 cannot be cited, I reckon it is wrong.
I will e-mail to you a copy of my historical researches to the bonnyton address.
Roger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clydekelvin ( talk • contribs) 22:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the remarks. I am thinking along these lines (no pun intended) and will look at the articles you suggest for ideas. Britmax ( talk) 06:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I must go to work now but HERE you will find the first work towards a disambig page. Comments welcome. Britmax ( talk) 08:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Stewart. Thanks for spotting that. I've replied on my talkpage. Pyrotec ( talk) 16:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello, you've got an answer on commons:Image talk:Class 303 at Wemyss Bay (April 1984).jpg. Regards, → Spiritia 15:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)