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Saw you've been editing awhile and no-one had welcomed you yet, so...
Welcome!
Hello, Paul gene, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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Fvasconcellos 23:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
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Good work on the Bupropion page.-- Nuklear 09:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I put my best reference into the Radafaxine page itself. I found four or five places where a GSK quarterly report from 2006 was reported second hand, but I was unable to find the GSK report itself, so I got lazy and didn't put my mediocre reference into the bupropion page itself, figuring someone closer to the industry could do better. MaxEnt 00:40, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul. First of all, let me thank you for the excellent work you've been doing :) Now, for your questions—Diberri's template builder is the best tool there is at the moment. It used to produce abbreviated journal names, which I prefer, but doesn't anymore, as it simply gathers information directly from PubMed and formats it; something must have changed regarding output from the PubMed system. I wouldn't know about that, although the man himself probably does. When I add references, I change the hyphens into en dashes directly in the template builder; I altered my keyboard layout for easy dash input long ago, so that makes it faster :) I don't think there is any tool to automatically add non-breaking spaces where needed. The best thing to do, if a stretch for most contributors, is to read up on WP:MOSNUM and try to incorporate it into your editing practices.
wikEd, by Cacycle ( talk · contribs), is an almost-WYSIWIG editor which can be added to your monobook. I've never really gotten used to it, but many, many contributors use it regularly. A list of all the features can be found here. Sorry, but you did mean editors as in software, right? If you meant people who edit, that's another story!
As for "less clean-up work for you to do", please don't worry about that! This sort of thing (reference formatting, dashes, spaces, etc.) is hardly any trouble at all, at least to me; as a matter of fact, if there's anything else I can do for you please let me know. Best wishes, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 20:04, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul. Here's the relevant passage, ipsis verbis:
In the absence of placebo-controlled data to confirm the attribution of tics to bupropion exposure, the use of bupropion with appropriate monitoring in children with ADHD and tics deserves consideration if other approaches have not been successful.
By the way, Mr Bungle ( talk · contribs) has admirably rewritten the "Overdose" section. I hope you'll find it improved. Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 01:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The discussion of prices in Modafinil is unusual, but are you sure it is against guidelines? ← BenB4 11:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
If the prices are published in primary sources like catalogs, or discussed in secondary sources, that's not OR. The reason I bring this up is that every news article I've ever read about it has mentioned how expensive it is. ← BenB4 10:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul,
I hope we can collaborate on Aspirin to make it a great article. I'm at a disadvantage to you in that I'm just a layperson with a layperson's book (and all the many flaws it contains :-). Frankly, a Ladybird book on Aspirin would satisfy WP:V but we all want to do better than that. Currently, parts of Aspirin's history are unsourced, incomplete and possibly incorrect. I could fix these issues but I'd have to cite Jeffreys as the source since it is what I've got. Perhaps you've got some better sources and the time to do that instead of me? If not, would you mind if I went ahead? If the text ends up with something you feel is incorrect, then we can discuss (I won't fight). Also, if I do this, you could replace some of my citations with better sources if they are available and match the text. Ultimately, Jeffreys doesn't cover everything and I've noted in the "History: a review" where we need to find other sources. I'd love if you could comment on my review and hopefully answer some of the questions/requests.
Cheers, Colin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Colin ( talk • contribs) 12:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul. I usually reserve semi-protection for heavy vandalism (e.g. many unproductive edits a day) or articles where vandalism isn't being reverted quickly enough. The past few vandal edits to fluoxetine were reverted almost immediately, except for this one, which was also the only truly "dangerous" edit (introducing a hard-to-spot factual inaccuracy). I really don't think protection is necessary at the time. If you do think it's warranted, please feel free to leave a note at WP:RFPP, and another admin will review it—I may of course be wrong :) Hope you're doing well, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 23:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul, You reverted my comments about the genotoxity of TCAs, and said that the srudy was disproven. I looked up the study you talked about. I diod not know this study, so thank you very much. It was very interesting. But to my mind the genotoxity of TCA in Drosophila Melanogaster has not been disproven in this study. The TCAs mentioned are still proven to be genotosic in Drosophila Melanogaster, but it seems that this study found no link between genotoxic TCAs and breast cancer. Thats good news to my mind... but i think it still should be mentioned that these TCAS have been found to be genotoxic. In other countries (such as Germnay) this is mentuioned in the professionals information. to give you an example: I am sorry, it is in German, hope you can understand it. So i think genotoxity should be mentioned, breast cancer should be not mentioned. How do you think about this. Sorry, english is not my native language :). I hope you understood me nontheless :) Smaug77 —Preceding comment was added at 16:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Do you have a diff to solidify your claim at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ananeuzumab that this was a definite attempt at hoaxing? I'm currently inclined to block the accounts and that could seal the deal... — Scien tizzle 05:04, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey, welcome to Wikipedia! I reverted your comments to the article itself, could you put them on the talk page instead? Thanks much. Leave me a message on my talk page if you have any questions or want to discuss anything. Peace, delldot talk 14:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
No matter what your beef with the mainpage summary is, it is not appropriate to overwrite the article with your request. Keep it to talk pages only, and please note that you can and will be temporarily editblocked for disrupting Wikipedia if this continues. Thanks. Bearcat ( talk) 14:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm an admin, and all I needed was a couple of minutes to review the issue. Consider it done. Bearcat ( talk) 15:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
"Dear Xris0,
Even before you restored your controversial paragraph in the Fluoxetine article, I had been reluctant to delete it. I had actually moved it to the Talk page, with the corresponding explanation (see Talk:Fluoxetine#Fluoxetine and suicidality). What you say does ring true to me; unfortunately, it is hard to come up with any solid evidence in favor of the paragraph you wrote. Let's work on this together. Having solid evidence will give your point more weight. And on the other hand, it is not good for the article to have a highly controversial opinion without attribution. Even as you originally wrote it, there is no support for it in the following paragraphs- see the diff- [3] Paul gene (talk) 01:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)"
I hesitated to click on the video link. Didn't really want to see a film of floppy willies at this time in the morning (or any time for that matter). But it was really just a powerpoint slide.
My comment on MEDMOS wasn't whether some medical articles have had YouTube video links posted, but whether this was a major problem specific to medical articles. Those who spend their time refining our main policy/guildline pages don't like to see it repeated all over the place. That leads to inconsistencies when policies are tweaked. WP:EL should be cited to remove undesirable video links and such like, not WP:MEDMOS.
An example: some surgeon posts a video of a hip replacement op, or perhaps a video showing how some piece of equipment works. This could be quite an effective learning aid, and if copyright hasn't been infringed, may be OK. So for MEDMOS to say "no YouTube" is actually exceeding policy and the main guidelines. Colin° Talk 07:18, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Why are you deleting any reference to the subject. There are unique and quality studies in each realm of mental disorders, however, you are removing them. Gnif global ( talk) 12:38, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Please revert yourself. You are seeing problems where there are none. Colin° Talk 12:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I've just noticed, your SVG image over at Image:Bupropion metabolism.svg appears to actually be just a raster image (specifically Image:Bupropion metabolism.png) that's been converted into XML using base64 encoding for the binary data. This may represent a misunderstanding on your part as to what the intention of a vector graphic format like SVG is for, or perhaps a misuse of whatever program it was that you used to convert that image. Normally when converting an image from raster to vector you'll need to get a program that can trace the lines ( Inkscape is my personal favorite), though in a case like this one with chemical diagrams and text it'd probably be better to recreate it using more specialized tools. It's not very important in this case since the image isn't used anywhere, I just figured I'd drop a note in case you wanted to do more SVG conversions in the future. Bryan Derksen ( talk) 19:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll have a look :) Best, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 16:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
this came from Healy p. 168. I am not too familiar with eary history of these drugs so is this accurate? I figured palcing this would help set some context without being onerously tangential. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 01:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, you have removed several references from Aspirin as being false or not relevant in the way they are cited. I do wonder if on some of them, such as [1], the reference does in fact support the material - even if it is not mentioned in the abstract, the full text of the article may still have information that supports the sentence, could it not? Personally, I have not read the article in question, nor have I read several other of the articles you removed as citations, but do you think maybe one should be a little careful when removing such sourced information? I realize some people do do this, but I doubt that many editors would intentionally introduce sources that are not relevant to the material. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong; I'm just curious if you have double checked all of these references. CrazyChemGuy ( talk) 00:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I would have checked a full text if it were a well and competently written article. It is not. I checked, however, the full text for the reference you mentioned. And no, the full text does not support that nonsense. 103 out of 160 people had GI symptoms, not 160. In any case this study cannot be used to establish the frequency of GI symptoms that can be specifically attributed to aspirin. To do that it had to be randomized and, ideally, blinded. Second, using citations, which are at best tangential to the material they purport to prove, is a common phenomenon on WP. I would not guess what its causes are. To make everybody's life easier, the WP guidelines generally recommend that in the onus of finding a proof is on the person who inserts information into the article. Cheers, Paul Gene ( talk) 00:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I noticed your recent edits to Clinical depression regarding use of supplements for treatment. It seems like this section could get extremely long very quickly. Would you like to collaborate on an article proper for Supplemental treatment of clinical depression or something like that? I'm not particularly knowledgeable, but I have access to journals and know plenty about wiki-formatting and that sort of thing, plus I'm very interested in the topic.-- Gimme danger ( talk) 16:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
(drum roll) Congratulations, Paul. Nice work as usual, and you got some fine editors to assist you ;) Best, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 22:34, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The WikiProject Neuroscience Award | |
Here's to Paul Gene for developing & redeveloping sertraline and bupropion thru FAC successfully.Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 23:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
Thank you very much for the barnstar, and congrats on the FA! -- Galaxiaad ( talk) 04:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
What is next on your agenda? I had mused on working up chlorpromazine and clozapine and I know Fvasconcellos is also keen on the latter one...Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 04:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I changed some bulleted lists in the treatments section of the Depression article to prose, following the Wikipedia:Manual of Style, which states that "Do not use lists if a passage reads easily using plain paragraphs." The Manual says that "Most Wikipedia articles should consist of prose, because prose allows the presentation of detail and clarification of context," while a list does not. "Prose flows, like one person speaking to another, and is best suited to articles, because their purpose is to explain." As well, when you take bulleted points and convert them to prose, you can indicate the importance, usage, or other comparisons for each example. You changed the section back to bullets, on the grounds that you like the bullets better. In this case, though, I argue it should be the widely accepted Wikipedia style conventions which we should follow, not any single editor's preferences. As well, this style issue goes beyond Wikipedia: look at Encyclopedia Britannica -- prose is the dominant way of presenting information in that reference. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 20:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
If you get a chance, please take another look at aspirin. I've checked out the references, and clarified the sentence on pancreatic cancer (the other experimental, cancer-related references checked out as agreeing with their cited material when I checked them). I am satisfied that the rest of the article meets the GA criteria, and plan to pass it in 48 hours unless other objections are raised. But I wanted to give you another chance to take a look, since you made some comments on it previously. Dr. Cash ( talk) 16:32, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the principle, and that was exactly the reason for my edits. WhatamIdoing's contributions have not been discussed. Regards, Guido den Broeder ( talk) 01:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi,
You went through SSRIs association with aggression and suicide, and I did the same just now. I'm very, very far from a specialist, could you have a go at reviewing my changes? One thing I did was replace quotes and numbers with more general statements, something covered by summary style guidelines I think. I replaced the specific percents covering aggression and suicidial ideation with a very bland 'it increases' - I couldn't find the specific figures in the FDA documents so I lacked the context to make it more specific. Since they were significant changes, they should definitely be on the page, but I'm always averse to p values and percents. Could you think of a better, but still generic way of including the information? F'rinstance, right now even though aggression rates seemed to be double suicide ideation, they're on the same playing field, but since there's no comparison to placebos that I could find, I can't do my preferred option (i.e. 2x versus placebo for suicide, 4x for aggression). I also dislike the prozac/suicide section - it's all about Germany, and it's sourced to unlinked court docs. Surely there are some pubmed documents that exist that cover this? Or even the New York Times? Court documents are probably considered primary sources or something close, and an external analysis would be nice.
Thanks for any help you can give me with this! WLU ( talk) 15:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
We write for the reader, Paul—whether a layperson or a pharmacologist, and the average Joe who knows nothing about the drugs he takes has just as much right to read the very best. Fluoxetine vs sertraline may be completely uncontroversial to you or to others familiar with the topic, but it clearly isn't to all—otherwise, why mention it anyway if it's common knowledge? :) No, WP:LEAD does not mandate references to everything, but it does for statements likely to be challenged. That one was more than likely to be challenged; it was challenged, and there is absolutely no harm in including a reference (sorry if I added the wrong one, though.) As for the "lazy bum" part, I'm sure I don't need to remind you of WP:AGF now, do I? Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 18:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Can you explain your reason for reverting my last edit? Thanks. SP-KP ( talk) 20:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I take your point about placement. I put in the lead because one of the things a lead is supposed to do is highlight why something is regarded as notable, and the fact that the WHO regards fluoxetine as an "essential medicine" seems to me to confer a degree of notability on it. Would you be comfortable with the fact being mentioned somewhere less prominent? I'm uneasy about the idea of putting something in a non-trivial category without referencing its inclusion somewhere in the article. SP-KP ( talk) 22:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Seems right up your alley—I'm sure you could do wonders on this one :) Still just a candidate, though. Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 15:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
The page starts with a list of references elsewhere, what use would such a link have on the talk page were nobody sees it and it would get archived after a while? Would you support a link in the 'see also' section or are you against it all together? -- Steven Fruitsmaak ( Reply) 19:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I think there might've been a slight miscommunication in the MDD edit summaries (it's hard to say a whole lot in them, as their space is so limited). Anyway, my "electrodes in the brain" example wasn't spontaneous, but rather taken right out of the Carey article. Also, EverSince (who is evidently far more well-versed in the literature on this topic than I am, and to whose judgment I've been deferring a fair amount in this regard) has pointed to what seems like enough evidence to warrant the inclusion of the word "empirical," if not yet "experimental." You'll also notice that, in the talk page, I became my own critic on the inclusion of "controversial," but I still defended myself against...well, myself, and no one has (as of yet, anyway) faulted my approach to that. Also, I think the "somewhat-supported/applied-but-also-somewhat-hypothetical" wording is totally consistent with the existence of controversy, but doesn't smack of as much dismissiveness as might the simple branding of the approach as "controversial." Best, Cosmic Latte ( talk) 16:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar | |
Just wanted to say thanks for all the contributions, particularly the objective vigilance on the fluoxetine and resveratrol articles! With all the people with agendas it's hard work, and your substituting out pseudo-science references for well-researched legitimate ones is much appreciated! Xris0 ( talk) 18:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC) |
Paul. Please read Wikipedia:Canvassing, particularly the section on votestacking. Colin° Talk 12:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I think your most recent edit to WP:MEDMOS completely misrepresents consensus at MEDRS. How about the talkpage? Surely better than unleashing another revert war. JFW | T@lk 00:46, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Paul gene I need your help. I am working on a research project at Boston College, studying creation of medical information on Wikipedia. You are being contacted because you have been identified as an important contributor to one or more articles.
Would you will be willing to answer a few questions about your experience? We've done considerable background research, but we would also like to gather the insight of the actual editors. Details about the project can be found at the user page of the project leader, geraldckane. Survey questions can be found at geraldckane/medsurvey. Your privacy and confidentiality will be strictly protected!
The questions should only take a few minutes. I hope you will be willing to complete the survey, as we do value your insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Professor Kane if you have any questions. Thank You, BCproject ( talk) 23:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the apology. And here's one from me for being robustly defensive rather than trying to seek calming words and a solution where everyone is happy. I don't know why we tend to disagree so much, when (I think) both of us are on the same side. Would repeating the editorial judgement/common-sense bit from NOR be enough to satisfy your problems on MEDRS, or are there other issues too?
Colin° Talk 10:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I suggest you offer the "independence" addition for review at WT:MEDRS, as I'm not the arbiter for inclusion and there are other folk far more familiar with the journal writing/reviewing process than me.
WP:NOR actually says "one step removed from the event" rather than "one step removed from the original participants". An author writing a review a year or more after the original paper will have had time to gather feedback, reflect and possibly conduct further research that enhances or reduces the importance of that original work. The process of writing the review should cause the other to consider other research and at least try to act impartially. Surely COI bias would be a flaw anyone peer-reviewing or otherwise editorially judging the paper would check for. I accept that these guys are human and will naturally tend to side with their own arguments and their own research.
But how does one judge whether a review is independent, especially when a paper has six authors located at four different centres. If the review author is the last name on the primary source paper, are they independent enough? Who is to say that two authors located on different sides of the world aren't best drinking buddies when they meet up. Even if the review author is completely independent of the study being cited, the mere fact that they are experts in that field biases them to write a review that will encourage further funds for research, etc. Their livelihoods depend on a continued appreciation that this topic is worth further study.
For the drug review, I can appreciate that a drug company employee wouldn't tend to write a fair review but how to you find someone who would? Someone researching a rival drug or therapy might write a negative review. Even someone who apparently has nothing to gain either way may simply be biased towards a treatment they are most familiar with, or against a treatment they have had a single bad experience of.
In short, we should say something about "reviews written by authors with clear conflict of interest or based to a significant degree on their original research". I'm just not sure how strong a warning to make, given all the other sources of bias that affect any author. Colin° Talk 09:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
The date RFC bot assigns pertains to the automatic expiration date (to prevent buildup of stale RFCs, the template gets nixed from the page after a month). I'll either clarify this on the RFC pages or bug Betacommand to change which date is displayed. -- harej 00:24, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Paul, even though we're on "opposing sides" of WP:PRIMARY, you seem like a nice person, and I just thought -- you might like to take a look at Ludwigs2's block log. A person that managed to get blocked three times in the same month for edit warring and disruptive editing is probably not someone whose actions you want to copy.
Note that I'm not an admin, and that I don't intend this to sound anything like a threat. A single revert against consensus is probably not going to get anyone blocked, and I do understand the temptation. But let me encourage you to discuss this, not to join Ludwigs2's misguided, multi-page edit wars.
BTW, I answered your most recent question at WT:MEDRS; let me know if it doesn't make sense. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 00:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Okay, then let me try again:
Finally, if we want to be maximally useful to an editor that doesn't know very much about the field (say, a new student that hopes to some day go to medical school, but whose current level of knowledge is two weeks of Biology 101), then we need to present the best practice, not the " use your professional judgement" rules or the " general rules that apply to most situations, but maybe not exactly to this field". Thus we emphasize the best practice for medicine-related articles, which are based on the actual standards in the actual real world. The best practice is to rely heavily on secondary sources, and in general the best secondary sources are comprehensive and systematic reviews, along with good textbooks and formally promulgated medical standards.
You, as a person with some knowledge in your particular field, can (and, I hope, will) invoke WP:IAR when it's appropriate. MEDRS does not prohibit that. The fact that "common sense and the occasional exception" apply does not make the general advice incorrect. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 02:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello Paul, I can't help but feeling a little responsible for causing the current debate(s), so have tried to follow it, but it has spread to such depth and in different locations, it has become hard to follow the thread. I can see from your devotion to debate that you believe there are some serious issues that need addressing - and after being thrown into the depths of NPOV, consensus definition, guidelines, policies being quoted like shopping lists that indeed the situation isn't clear enough. for the record - I personally believe silence is not consensus, consensus does not exclude reasoned minority opinions, guidelines do not trump policies, policies are not perfect, and a few others - so I can see some of your positioning, but I do also wonder what happens when debates can't be resolved, so let's see what happens if we do this by the book, and if we find errors / omissions in the way, get them fixed?
I'm not going to quote stuff at you which you probably know already, but from my brief meanderings I reckon this: Propose a Truce:
I'd also like to keep an eye open to improving guidelines / procedures / policies that would've helped make this debate smoother in the hope of easing similar problems elsewhere on wikipedia, that's what we're here for to make it better, right?
I think this is a reasonable course of action, and would be accepted by the other editors, so the choice is up to you I guess? I'll try to help where I can to follow it through, thanks for your time, LeeVJ ( talk) 00:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war according to the reverts you have made on
Wikipedia:Reliable sources (medicine-related articles). Note that the
three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the
three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be
blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a
consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue
dispute resolution.
David Ruben
Talk 02:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Next time you start an "editor behaviour" discussion on a talk page, or start forum shopping on a policy talk page, I shall just delete your edit, per WP:TALK. And no, I don't need to discuss all my edits with you beforehand.
Colin°
Talk 12:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC) Oh forget that.
You have a right cheek to tell David off for choosing "an incorrect venue to discuss your actions", when the whole section "Administrator's poor judgement and improper actions" is utterly inappropriately located. It may be related to the guideline, but that doesn't mean it is appropriate for the matter to be discussed there. Be warned that WP:RFC says "An RfC may bring close scrutiny on all involved editors" and "Filing an RfC is not a step to be taken lightly or in haste". Colin° Talk 13:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Hardly! I'm very interested in them, as they may well form the linchpin here.
In the mean time, I see you've worked on wikipedia successfully so far. Unfortunately, in this case, your approach is just slightly off (mostly by not taking enough time to try to get people to the table, I think), and it's rapidly wearing out the patience of the community. You seem to be a likable enough fellow, so I don't believe that that is your intent!
I previously talked things through with Xavexgoem, and he was going to step forward and explain things to you step by step. Unfortunately we seem to be running out of time.
Would you be willing to hold off and not edit or discuss at or about MEDRS for a little while, while we help you figure out a more viable strategy? This would immediately defuse any currently building community consensus against you, earn you some good will, and hopefully even yield a viable strategy to help you get done what you'd like to get done at WP:MEDRS.
I think that this is a win-win proposition, and I hope you'll agree to it. -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 18:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Your latest post on Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources (medicine-related articles) indicates that you are perhaps taking the discussion too personally. Colin has gone on a wikibreak. Perhaps this is a good time to cease the whole discussion, and focus on something else. JFW | T@lk 21:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
You provided a diff to your own edit. If this is what Colin said, he was not making a personal attack but provided a hypothetical example. At no point was he suggesting that you were unqualified. His concern is that your personal judgement cannot replace the judgement of secondary sources, just because you think the secondary sources are fishy. Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs. Join NoFreeLunch or some other organisation, but stop trying to force your perspectives onto other users.
I was not suggesting that I was an uninvolved party. I left my message because I think your attitude on WP:MEDRS has been the main cause for the departure (even if temporary) of a very active and conscientious editor. In that sense, my message was an accusation and I have no problem if you take it as such. JFW | T@lk 23:42, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Saw you've been editing awhile and no-one had welcomed you yet, so...
Welcome!
Hello, Paul gene, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
Wikipedian! Please
sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}}
after the question on your talk page. Again, welcome!
Fvasconcellos 23:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:Bupropion metabolism.SVG. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.
For more information on using images, see the following pages:
This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 01:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Good work on the Bupropion page.-- Nuklear 09:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I put my best reference into the Radafaxine page itself. I found four or five places where a GSK quarterly report from 2006 was reported second hand, but I was unable to find the GSK report itself, so I got lazy and didn't put my mediocre reference into the bupropion page itself, figuring someone closer to the industry could do better. MaxEnt 00:40, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul. First of all, let me thank you for the excellent work you've been doing :) Now, for your questions—Diberri's template builder is the best tool there is at the moment. It used to produce abbreviated journal names, which I prefer, but doesn't anymore, as it simply gathers information directly from PubMed and formats it; something must have changed regarding output from the PubMed system. I wouldn't know about that, although the man himself probably does. When I add references, I change the hyphens into en dashes directly in the template builder; I altered my keyboard layout for easy dash input long ago, so that makes it faster :) I don't think there is any tool to automatically add non-breaking spaces where needed. The best thing to do, if a stretch for most contributors, is to read up on WP:MOSNUM and try to incorporate it into your editing practices.
wikEd, by Cacycle ( talk · contribs), is an almost-WYSIWIG editor which can be added to your monobook. I've never really gotten used to it, but many, many contributors use it regularly. A list of all the features can be found here. Sorry, but you did mean editors as in software, right? If you meant people who edit, that's another story!
As for "less clean-up work for you to do", please don't worry about that! This sort of thing (reference formatting, dashes, spaces, etc.) is hardly any trouble at all, at least to me; as a matter of fact, if there's anything else I can do for you please let me know. Best wishes, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 20:04, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul. Here's the relevant passage, ipsis verbis:
In the absence of placebo-controlled data to confirm the attribution of tics to bupropion exposure, the use of bupropion with appropriate monitoring in children with ADHD and tics deserves consideration if other approaches have not been successful.
By the way, Mr Bungle ( talk · contribs) has admirably rewritten the "Overdose" section. I hope you'll find it improved. Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 01:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The discussion of prices in Modafinil is unusual, but are you sure it is against guidelines? ← BenB4 11:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
If the prices are published in primary sources like catalogs, or discussed in secondary sources, that's not OR. The reason I bring this up is that every news article I've ever read about it has mentioned how expensive it is. ← BenB4 10:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul,
I hope we can collaborate on Aspirin to make it a great article. I'm at a disadvantage to you in that I'm just a layperson with a layperson's book (and all the many flaws it contains :-). Frankly, a Ladybird book on Aspirin would satisfy WP:V but we all want to do better than that. Currently, parts of Aspirin's history are unsourced, incomplete and possibly incorrect. I could fix these issues but I'd have to cite Jeffreys as the source since it is what I've got. Perhaps you've got some better sources and the time to do that instead of me? If not, would you mind if I went ahead? If the text ends up with something you feel is incorrect, then we can discuss (I won't fight). Also, if I do this, you could replace some of my citations with better sources if they are available and match the text. Ultimately, Jeffreys doesn't cover everything and I've noted in the "History: a review" where we need to find other sources. I'd love if you could comment on my review and hopefully answer some of the questions/requests.
Cheers, Colin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Colin ( talk • contribs) 12:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul. I usually reserve semi-protection for heavy vandalism (e.g. many unproductive edits a day) or articles where vandalism isn't being reverted quickly enough. The past few vandal edits to fluoxetine were reverted almost immediately, except for this one, which was also the only truly "dangerous" edit (introducing a hard-to-spot factual inaccuracy). I really don't think protection is necessary at the time. If you do think it's warranted, please feel free to leave a note at WP:RFPP, and another admin will review it—I may of course be wrong :) Hope you're doing well, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 23:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Paul, You reverted my comments about the genotoxity of TCAs, and said that the srudy was disproven. I looked up the study you talked about. I diod not know this study, so thank you very much. It was very interesting. But to my mind the genotoxity of TCA in Drosophila Melanogaster has not been disproven in this study. The TCAs mentioned are still proven to be genotosic in Drosophila Melanogaster, but it seems that this study found no link between genotoxic TCAs and breast cancer. Thats good news to my mind... but i think it still should be mentioned that these TCAS have been found to be genotoxic. In other countries (such as Germnay) this is mentuioned in the professionals information. to give you an example: I am sorry, it is in German, hope you can understand it. So i think genotoxity should be mentioned, breast cancer should be not mentioned. How do you think about this. Sorry, english is not my native language :). I hope you understood me nontheless :) Smaug77 —Preceding comment was added at 16:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Do you have a diff to solidify your claim at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ananeuzumab that this was a definite attempt at hoaxing? I'm currently inclined to block the accounts and that could seal the deal... — Scien tizzle 05:04, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey, welcome to Wikipedia! I reverted your comments to the article itself, could you put them on the talk page instead? Thanks much. Leave me a message on my talk page if you have any questions or want to discuss anything. Peace, delldot talk 14:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
No matter what your beef with the mainpage summary is, it is not appropriate to overwrite the article with your request. Keep it to talk pages only, and please note that you can and will be temporarily editblocked for disrupting Wikipedia if this continues. Thanks. Bearcat ( talk) 14:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm an admin, and all I needed was a couple of minutes to review the issue. Consider it done. Bearcat ( talk) 15:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
"Dear Xris0,
Even before you restored your controversial paragraph in the Fluoxetine article, I had been reluctant to delete it. I had actually moved it to the Talk page, with the corresponding explanation (see Talk:Fluoxetine#Fluoxetine and suicidality). What you say does ring true to me; unfortunately, it is hard to come up with any solid evidence in favor of the paragraph you wrote. Let's work on this together. Having solid evidence will give your point more weight. And on the other hand, it is not good for the article to have a highly controversial opinion without attribution. Even as you originally wrote it, there is no support for it in the following paragraphs- see the diff- [3] Paul gene (talk) 01:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)"
I hesitated to click on the video link. Didn't really want to see a film of floppy willies at this time in the morning (or any time for that matter). But it was really just a powerpoint slide.
My comment on MEDMOS wasn't whether some medical articles have had YouTube video links posted, but whether this was a major problem specific to medical articles. Those who spend their time refining our main policy/guildline pages don't like to see it repeated all over the place. That leads to inconsistencies when policies are tweaked. WP:EL should be cited to remove undesirable video links and such like, not WP:MEDMOS.
An example: some surgeon posts a video of a hip replacement op, or perhaps a video showing how some piece of equipment works. This could be quite an effective learning aid, and if copyright hasn't been infringed, may be OK. So for MEDMOS to say "no YouTube" is actually exceeding policy and the main guidelines. Colin° Talk 07:18, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Why are you deleting any reference to the subject. There are unique and quality studies in each realm of mental disorders, however, you are removing them. Gnif global ( talk) 12:38, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Please revert yourself. You are seeing problems where there are none. Colin° Talk 12:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I've just noticed, your SVG image over at Image:Bupropion metabolism.svg appears to actually be just a raster image (specifically Image:Bupropion metabolism.png) that's been converted into XML using base64 encoding for the binary data. This may represent a misunderstanding on your part as to what the intention of a vector graphic format like SVG is for, or perhaps a misuse of whatever program it was that you used to convert that image. Normally when converting an image from raster to vector you'll need to get a program that can trace the lines ( Inkscape is my personal favorite), though in a case like this one with chemical diagrams and text it'd probably be better to recreate it using more specialized tools. It's not very important in this case since the image isn't used anywhere, I just figured I'd drop a note in case you wanted to do more SVG conversions in the future. Bryan Derksen ( talk) 19:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll have a look :) Best, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 16:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
this came from Healy p. 168. I am not too familiar with eary history of these drugs so is this accurate? I figured palcing this would help set some context without being onerously tangential. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 01:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, you have removed several references from Aspirin as being false or not relevant in the way they are cited. I do wonder if on some of them, such as [1], the reference does in fact support the material - even if it is not mentioned in the abstract, the full text of the article may still have information that supports the sentence, could it not? Personally, I have not read the article in question, nor have I read several other of the articles you removed as citations, but do you think maybe one should be a little careful when removing such sourced information? I realize some people do do this, but I doubt that many editors would intentionally introduce sources that are not relevant to the material. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong; I'm just curious if you have double checked all of these references. CrazyChemGuy ( talk) 00:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I would have checked a full text if it were a well and competently written article. It is not. I checked, however, the full text for the reference you mentioned. And no, the full text does not support that nonsense. 103 out of 160 people had GI symptoms, not 160. In any case this study cannot be used to establish the frequency of GI symptoms that can be specifically attributed to aspirin. To do that it had to be randomized and, ideally, blinded. Second, using citations, which are at best tangential to the material they purport to prove, is a common phenomenon on WP. I would not guess what its causes are. To make everybody's life easier, the WP guidelines generally recommend that in the onus of finding a proof is on the person who inserts information into the article. Cheers, Paul Gene ( talk) 00:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I noticed your recent edits to Clinical depression regarding use of supplements for treatment. It seems like this section could get extremely long very quickly. Would you like to collaborate on an article proper for Supplemental treatment of clinical depression or something like that? I'm not particularly knowledgeable, but I have access to journals and know plenty about wiki-formatting and that sort of thing, plus I'm very interested in the topic.-- Gimme danger ( talk) 16:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
(drum roll) Congratulations, Paul. Nice work as usual, and you got some fine editors to assist you ;) Best, Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 22:34, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
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The WikiProject Neuroscience Award | |
Here's to Paul Gene for developing & redeveloping sertraline and bupropion thru FAC successfully.Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 23:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
Thank you very much for the barnstar, and congrats on the FA! -- Galaxiaad ( talk) 04:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
What is next on your agenda? I had mused on working up chlorpromazine and clozapine and I know Fvasconcellos is also keen on the latter one...Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 04:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I changed some bulleted lists in the treatments section of the Depression article to prose, following the Wikipedia:Manual of Style, which states that "Do not use lists if a passage reads easily using plain paragraphs." The Manual says that "Most Wikipedia articles should consist of prose, because prose allows the presentation of detail and clarification of context," while a list does not. "Prose flows, like one person speaking to another, and is best suited to articles, because their purpose is to explain." As well, when you take bulleted points and convert them to prose, you can indicate the importance, usage, or other comparisons for each example. You changed the section back to bullets, on the grounds that you like the bullets better. In this case, though, I argue it should be the widely accepted Wikipedia style conventions which we should follow, not any single editor's preferences. As well, this style issue goes beyond Wikipedia: look at Encyclopedia Britannica -- prose is the dominant way of presenting information in that reference. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 20:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
If you get a chance, please take another look at aspirin. I've checked out the references, and clarified the sentence on pancreatic cancer (the other experimental, cancer-related references checked out as agreeing with their cited material when I checked them). I am satisfied that the rest of the article meets the GA criteria, and plan to pass it in 48 hours unless other objections are raised. But I wanted to give you another chance to take a look, since you made some comments on it previously. Dr. Cash ( talk) 16:32, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the principle, and that was exactly the reason for my edits. WhatamIdoing's contributions have not been discussed. Regards, Guido den Broeder ( talk) 01:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi,
You went through SSRIs association with aggression and suicide, and I did the same just now. I'm very, very far from a specialist, could you have a go at reviewing my changes? One thing I did was replace quotes and numbers with more general statements, something covered by summary style guidelines I think. I replaced the specific percents covering aggression and suicidial ideation with a very bland 'it increases' - I couldn't find the specific figures in the FDA documents so I lacked the context to make it more specific. Since they were significant changes, they should definitely be on the page, but I'm always averse to p values and percents. Could you think of a better, but still generic way of including the information? F'rinstance, right now even though aggression rates seemed to be double suicide ideation, they're on the same playing field, but since there's no comparison to placebos that I could find, I can't do my preferred option (i.e. 2x versus placebo for suicide, 4x for aggression). I also dislike the prozac/suicide section - it's all about Germany, and it's sourced to unlinked court docs. Surely there are some pubmed documents that exist that cover this? Or even the New York Times? Court documents are probably considered primary sources or something close, and an external analysis would be nice.
Thanks for any help you can give me with this! WLU ( talk) 15:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
We write for the reader, Paul—whether a layperson or a pharmacologist, and the average Joe who knows nothing about the drugs he takes has just as much right to read the very best. Fluoxetine vs sertraline may be completely uncontroversial to you or to others familiar with the topic, but it clearly isn't to all—otherwise, why mention it anyway if it's common knowledge? :) No, WP:LEAD does not mandate references to everything, but it does for statements likely to be challenged. That one was more than likely to be challenged; it was challenged, and there is absolutely no harm in including a reference (sorry if I added the wrong one, though.) As for the "lazy bum" part, I'm sure I don't need to remind you of WP:AGF now, do I? Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 18:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Can you explain your reason for reverting my last edit? Thanks. SP-KP ( talk) 20:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I take your point about placement. I put in the lead because one of the things a lead is supposed to do is highlight why something is regarded as notable, and the fact that the WHO regards fluoxetine as an "essential medicine" seems to me to confer a degree of notability on it. Would you be comfortable with the fact being mentioned somewhere less prominent? I'm uneasy about the idea of putting something in a non-trivial category without referencing its inclusion somewhere in the article. SP-KP ( talk) 22:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Seems right up your alley—I'm sure you could do wonders on this one :) Still just a candidate, though. Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 15:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
The page starts with a list of references elsewhere, what use would such a link have on the talk page were nobody sees it and it would get archived after a while? Would you support a link in the 'see also' section or are you against it all together? -- Steven Fruitsmaak ( Reply) 19:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I think there might've been a slight miscommunication in the MDD edit summaries (it's hard to say a whole lot in them, as their space is so limited). Anyway, my "electrodes in the brain" example wasn't spontaneous, but rather taken right out of the Carey article. Also, EverSince (who is evidently far more well-versed in the literature on this topic than I am, and to whose judgment I've been deferring a fair amount in this regard) has pointed to what seems like enough evidence to warrant the inclusion of the word "empirical," if not yet "experimental." You'll also notice that, in the talk page, I became my own critic on the inclusion of "controversial," but I still defended myself against...well, myself, and no one has (as of yet, anyway) faulted my approach to that. Also, I think the "somewhat-supported/applied-but-also-somewhat-hypothetical" wording is totally consistent with the existence of controversy, but doesn't smack of as much dismissiveness as might the simple branding of the approach as "controversial." Best, Cosmic Latte ( talk) 16:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar | |
Just wanted to say thanks for all the contributions, particularly the objective vigilance on the fluoxetine and resveratrol articles! With all the people with agendas it's hard work, and your substituting out pseudo-science references for well-researched legitimate ones is much appreciated! Xris0 ( talk) 18:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC) |
Paul. Please read Wikipedia:Canvassing, particularly the section on votestacking. Colin° Talk 12:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I think your most recent edit to WP:MEDMOS completely misrepresents consensus at MEDRS. How about the talkpage? Surely better than unleashing another revert war. JFW | T@lk 00:46, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Paul gene I need your help. I am working on a research project at Boston College, studying creation of medical information on Wikipedia. You are being contacted because you have been identified as an important contributor to one or more articles.
Would you will be willing to answer a few questions about your experience? We've done considerable background research, but we would also like to gather the insight of the actual editors. Details about the project can be found at the user page of the project leader, geraldckane. Survey questions can be found at geraldckane/medsurvey. Your privacy and confidentiality will be strictly protected!
The questions should only take a few minutes. I hope you will be willing to complete the survey, as we do value your insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Professor Kane if you have any questions. Thank You, BCproject ( talk) 23:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the apology. And here's one from me for being robustly defensive rather than trying to seek calming words and a solution where everyone is happy. I don't know why we tend to disagree so much, when (I think) both of us are on the same side. Would repeating the editorial judgement/common-sense bit from NOR be enough to satisfy your problems on MEDRS, or are there other issues too?
Colin° Talk 10:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I suggest you offer the "independence" addition for review at WT:MEDRS, as I'm not the arbiter for inclusion and there are other folk far more familiar with the journal writing/reviewing process than me.
WP:NOR actually says "one step removed from the event" rather than "one step removed from the original participants". An author writing a review a year or more after the original paper will have had time to gather feedback, reflect and possibly conduct further research that enhances or reduces the importance of that original work. The process of writing the review should cause the other to consider other research and at least try to act impartially. Surely COI bias would be a flaw anyone peer-reviewing or otherwise editorially judging the paper would check for. I accept that these guys are human and will naturally tend to side with their own arguments and their own research.
But how does one judge whether a review is independent, especially when a paper has six authors located at four different centres. If the review author is the last name on the primary source paper, are they independent enough? Who is to say that two authors located on different sides of the world aren't best drinking buddies when they meet up. Even if the review author is completely independent of the study being cited, the mere fact that they are experts in that field biases them to write a review that will encourage further funds for research, etc. Their livelihoods depend on a continued appreciation that this topic is worth further study.
For the drug review, I can appreciate that a drug company employee wouldn't tend to write a fair review but how to you find someone who would? Someone researching a rival drug or therapy might write a negative review. Even someone who apparently has nothing to gain either way may simply be biased towards a treatment they are most familiar with, or against a treatment they have had a single bad experience of.
In short, we should say something about "reviews written by authors with clear conflict of interest or based to a significant degree on their original research". I'm just not sure how strong a warning to make, given all the other sources of bias that affect any author. Colin° Talk 09:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
The date RFC bot assigns pertains to the automatic expiration date (to prevent buildup of stale RFCs, the template gets nixed from the page after a month). I'll either clarify this on the RFC pages or bug Betacommand to change which date is displayed. -- harej 00:24, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Paul, even though we're on "opposing sides" of WP:PRIMARY, you seem like a nice person, and I just thought -- you might like to take a look at Ludwigs2's block log. A person that managed to get blocked three times in the same month for edit warring and disruptive editing is probably not someone whose actions you want to copy.
Note that I'm not an admin, and that I don't intend this to sound anything like a threat. A single revert against consensus is probably not going to get anyone blocked, and I do understand the temptation. But let me encourage you to discuss this, not to join Ludwigs2's misguided, multi-page edit wars.
BTW, I answered your most recent question at WT:MEDRS; let me know if it doesn't make sense. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 00:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Okay, then let me try again:
Finally, if we want to be maximally useful to an editor that doesn't know very much about the field (say, a new student that hopes to some day go to medical school, but whose current level of knowledge is two weeks of Biology 101), then we need to present the best practice, not the " use your professional judgement" rules or the " general rules that apply to most situations, but maybe not exactly to this field". Thus we emphasize the best practice for medicine-related articles, which are based on the actual standards in the actual real world. The best practice is to rely heavily on secondary sources, and in general the best secondary sources are comprehensive and systematic reviews, along with good textbooks and formally promulgated medical standards.
You, as a person with some knowledge in your particular field, can (and, I hope, will) invoke WP:IAR when it's appropriate. MEDRS does not prohibit that. The fact that "common sense and the occasional exception" apply does not make the general advice incorrect. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 02:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello Paul, I can't help but feeling a little responsible for causing the current debate(s), so have tried to follow it, but it has spread to such depth and in different locations, it has become hard to follow the thread. I can see from your devotion to debate that you believe there are some serious issues that need addressing - and after being thrown into the depths of NPOV, consensus definition, guidelines, policies being quoted like shopping lists that indeed the situation isn't clear enough. for the record - I personally believe silence is not consensus, consensus does not exclude reasoned minority opinions, guidelines do not trump policies, policies are not perfect, and a few others - so I can see some of your positioning, but I do also wonder what happens when debates can't be resolved, so let's see what happens if we do this by the book, and if we find errors / omissions in the way, get them fixed?
I'm not going to quote stuff at you which you probably know already, but from my brief meanderings I reckon this: Propose a Truce:
I'd also like to keep an eye open to improving guidelines / procedures / policies that would've helped make this debate smoother in the hope of easing similar problems elsewhere on wikipedia, that's what we're here for to make it better, right?
I think this is a reasonable course of action, and would be accepted by the other editors, so the choice is up to you I guess? I'll try to help where I can to follow it through, thanks for your time, LeeVJ ( talk) 00:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war according to the reverts you have made on
Wikipedia:Reliable sources (medicine-related articles). Note that the
three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the
three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be
blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a
consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue
dispute resolution.
David Ruben
Talk 02:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Next time you start an "editor behaviour" discussion on a talk page, or start forum shopping on a policy talk page, I shall just delete your edit, per WP:TALK. And no, I don't need to discuss all my edits with you beforehand.
Colin°
Talk 12:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC) Oh forget that.
You have a right cheek to tell David off for choosing "an incorrect venue to discuss your actions", when the whole section "Administrator's poor judgement and improper actions" is utterly inappropriately located. It may be related to the guideline, but that doesn't mean it is appropriate for the matter to be discussed there. Be warned that WP:RFC says "An RfC may bring close scrutiny on all involved editors" and "Filing an RfC is not a step to be taken lightly or in haste". Colin° Talk 13:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Hardly! I'm very interested in them, as they may well form the linchpin here.
In the mean time, I see you've worked on wikipedia successfully so far. Unfortunately, in this case, your approach is just slightly off (mostly by not taking enough time to try to get people to the table, I think), and it's rapidly wearing out the patience of the community. You seem to be a likable enough fellow, so I don't believe that that is your intent!
I previously talked things through with Xavexgoem, and he was going to step forward and explain things to you step by step. Unfortunately we seem to be running out of time.
Would you be willing to hold off and not edit or discuss at or about MEDRS for a little while, while we help you figure out a more viable strategy? This would immediately defuse any currently building community consensus against you, earn you some good will, and hopefully even yield a viable strategy to help you get done what you'd like to get done at WP:MEDRS.
I think that this is a win-win proposition, and I hope you'll agree to it. -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 18:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Your latest post on Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources (medicine-related articles) indicates that you are perhaps taking the discussion too personally. Colin has gone on a wikibreak. Perhaps this is a good time to cease the whole discussion, and focus on something else. JFW | T@lk 21:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
You provided a diff to your own edit. If this is what Colin said, he was not making a personal attack but provided a hypothetical example. At no point was he suggesting that you were unqualified. His concern is that your personal judgement cannot replace the judgement of secondary sources, just because you think the secondary sources are fishy. Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs. Join NoFreeLunch or some other organisation, but stop trying to force your perspectives onto other users.
I was not suggesting that I was an uninvolved party. I left my message because I think your attitude on WP:MEDRS has been the main cause for the departure (even if temporary) of a very active and conscientious editor. In that sense, my message was an accusation and I have no problem if you take it as such. JFW | T@lk 23:42, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
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