Hi, how are you
There is a discussion on talkpage of Menelik's biography here regarding the death toll. Previously you supported and find it important for it's inclusion and now you are invited to list your reasons for the inclusion and to provide your opposition on the listed reasons for not including the death toll estimate. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:03, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha I have responded to the section. Otakrem ( talk) 20:39, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
Greetings Otakrem! As per the note in the Eritrea coding that the material should be brief, I have summarized it and transferred the details to the parent. Please also see WP:WPC for what are the standards. Kind Regards-- Soupforone ( talk) 02:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the Habesha etymological insight. Please see the weblink there for the Abyssinian cognate in English. Cheers-- Soupforone ( talk) 02:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Menelik II, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kaffa. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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If it is fair to include an estimate of 'millions' (depopulation) made by only one persons ambiguous comment then Bermudes should be in with very similar wordings used under Menelik to make Wikipedia a place for people to learn our past history but not for provocation and to create resentment between people and destabilise Horn of Africa (a region where there is high illiteracy). This kind of resentment was the reason that lead to Rwanda genocide in 1994. The way the death estimate put is in a biased way and not put like wikipedia articles of both world wars i.e. not in a way "X number from Menelik side died while Y number from the other side". For these reasons I am adding a paragraph below the paragraph that begins "During the conquest of the southern territories.........". The paragraph is required to show how wars in the region are carried out for compare and contrast like WW1 was mentioned several times in World War II article and like the paragraph that begins with "Land warfare changed from the static front lines of World War I........". It is also required to show why those continuous warfares were carried out by quoting Donald Levine. Adding the following:
Wars have been devastating in the region for many centuries with the last most devastating war fought before the 19th century one being the one fought in 16th century. Warfare system between these two major wars has not much changed and in 16th century the Portuguese Bermudes documented depopulation and that an army led by several successive Aba Gedas carried out atrocities against civilians and combatants including torture, mass killings and large scale slavery during their conquest of territories located north of Genale river ( Bali, Amhara, Gafat, Damot). [1] [2] [3] According to Donald, the reasons for warfare in the region is to acquire cattle, slaves, to gain territories or control over trade routes and to carry out ritual requirements or secure trophies to prove masculinity. [4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by EthiopianHabesha ( talk • contribs) 22:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
After a long discussion under Meneliks talk page we could not reach consensus as to remove 'millions' and replace extreme tone like 'Mass killings' (term used mainly for Communist regimes) and 'large scale slavery' with impartial tone like 'deaths related to wars' and 'absorbing captives and war of prisoners during battle', which is how majority neutral scholars (Europeans and others from outside HA) characterise Menelik's battle/expansion. If we go by some few extreme writers (mainly from the politicians and ethnic nationalist community) characterisation then that paragraph I proposed above stays, which is entirely written based on neutral European sources. By the way those ‘millions’ and extreme wordings were added by Stumink in the first place claiming they are important information. This is 2016 and people don’t need to have radio station to replicate what happened in Rwanda in 1994 to Ethiopia. Now we have various social medias to create resentment/hate between peoples. And for this reason people also need to know that Menelik did not transform that region from a peaceful place to a war zone as nationalist are claiming which would go against what neutral scholars characterise the region before Menelik as a place where all clans (including Oromo clans) do not respect their borders, harmed all their neighbouring clans, participated in raiding system to collect resources, committed war related killings and absorbed captives & war of prisoners at the time of battle, not also forgetting minority writers clearly & precisely claiming mass killings and claiming historical people/states disappearing as a result of it. Actually these is what the region looks like based on history books contrary to what nationalist/politicians are trying to draw a picture. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 15:12, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha I do not understand why you are ignoring my comments which make it clear my reasons. What part of "I do not want to be involved in Original Research" do you choose to ignore? You have been warned about your Wikipedia talkpage and discussion guideline violations. You are doing it here as well. Your claim of having "adiminstrators opinion" on your side when no such thing happened is a violation of Wikipedia talk page guidelines. You are violating Wikipedia guidelines here. Otakrem ( talk) 09:44, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
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Greetings! When you have the time, could you please have a look at Tigrinyas? Per the speculation template, the link-thrus which don't indicate that the individuals are of Tigrinya heritage should be removed. Kind Regards-- Soupforone ( talk) 02:22, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
It has been reported Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard-- tell me Sennaitgebremariam ( talk) 17:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem, I am going with 100s of past editors consensus on this article Abysinian = Semitic people (previously titled after the widely used term 'Habesha' on Bantu, Nilotic & Mixed peoples). You changed the wording of the introductory paragraph to the article after it stayed for many years as follows "The peoples referred to as "Abyssinians" today can include anyone who accepts and assimilates to the "Habesha" identity but historically it included the Amhara, Tigray etc". Let's not disrupt because I can also bring 10s of sources which applied Abyssinian on Oromo & Agaw people historically and also include them under historically it included list which I have the right to do so by bringing reliable sources. Besides Samuel makes no distinction between Habesha & Abyssinian as Munroe & Yimene did. When I included the citation saying "These Semitic-speaking African populations became the Habesha" I took it as those semitic people adopted the name Habesha (based on many sources confirmation the term Habesha not being used by Axumite kings or to refer inhabitants in Axum proper) before this citation he said there is no genetic difference between them and to Sub Saharan Africans.
I probably might add the paragraph (which begins as historically....) which Soupforone & you opposed next to the first paragraph to make wikipedia readers fully informed on Habesha identity which also is an identity name of the African Indians, and an identity name for the black people residing in the Arabian peninsula by supporting it with reliable sources. In the Abyssinian article talk page I have includded a source telling about how Afro Asiatic speaking migrants (Oromo, Amhara, Kaffa) identify themselves as Habesha (adopted from Arabs use of the term for mixed people but not on European use for semitic people whom old scholars proposed as white migrants from Yemen came & built Axum for the indigeneous people when the standing Axum oblisk is one evidence of pharonic culture borrowed from the neighboring very black Nilotic Nubians). Why fluntly Greek speaking Axumite elites clearly know the defination of 'Ethiopia' applied on more specifically the very black nilotic Nubians and adopt it if they are culturally connected to white sabeans? why take the name of the black people and and not the white peoples nation name like 'Saba', Hadraamout' etc etc. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 11:35, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Amhara/Abyssinian Imposed Identity This is your ethnic group Amhara's Imposed Identity on several ethnic groups. After reading Identity Jilted and other books written by Tigrayans, Tigrinyas, Oromos etc, I can tell that you are of the Oppressive Amhara ethnic group who imposes a Amhara-"Abyssinian" ethnonoym on the ethnic groups that your people have conquered(colonized) and/or wish to. Otakrem ( talk) 14:33, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem, you do realise Tigre people are also considered Habesha? And do you also realise that the mainland Tigre people which fell under the Abyssinia/Al-Habash region only converted to Islam in the 19th Century? For this reason alone, there is no other reasons you have left as to why they are not Habesha. Your edits are seriously frustrating and that page has now become a mess.
Another thing, why has a page been made for "Tigrinya" people? They are the same people as the Tigrayans, just split over two countries, both practice the same thing and I find it highly offensive as one to see this. Resourcer1 ( talk) 12:06, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Are the Tigre people the same people who fought against the Amhara/Abyssinians in Eritrean War for Independence? Rhetorical question, ofcourse they were...same as the Tigrinyas. They are not the same people(s)...infact, I read books outside of Wikipedia on this topic and i know more so than what you or any editor writes on Wikipedia. Otakrem ( talk) 14:29, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Actually, the Aksumites were Not Habashats. Many sources have been provided on this, go read the Talkpages on Abyssinian article. Ask for it to get locked since you want to only show ONE VIEW of this issue. Wikipedia is meant to show all important views. I'm not the first to contest nor shall I be the last. Otakrem ( talk) 15:07, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Mai Weini, a Highland Village in Eritrea: A Study of the People, Their ...
By Kjetil Tronvoll [5], an Anthropologist who actually and studied the Tigrinya ethnic group in Eritrea. Tigrayans and Tigrinya are not the same people. Infact, they have several differences including Dialect, social structure, village structures..etc. You may be an Eritrean Tigrinya who has roots from Tigray from what you are stating. Most Eritrean Tigrinyas do not see themselves as the same ethnic group as Tigrayans. Otakrem ( talk) 20:19, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
“The people of Hamazain and Serowee, since the time of Ras Michael, though speaking the same language, are still scarcely (hardly) considered by the people of Teegray as a portion of that country whose governors, since that period, have made war on them….” (1868, Walter Chichele Plowden, P. 39) The arrival of a large number of Tigray migrants introduced a new element into the colonial situation, paving the way for a development that continues to bedevil relationships between Tigray and Kebesa until the present day. The labour demands of the colonial economy not only drew a large number of rural Eritreans into the new economic centres but also attracted numerous poor Tigray migrants, particularly from the impoverished Agame province of Tigray. These migrants came as day labourers into the towns and took over jobs that the Kebesa found unattractive. In many villages, families whose sons were working for the Italians adopted the practice of taking on Tigray migrants as tenant farmers to work the lands for their absent sons. These tenants were not given land titles or local citizenship rights like the indigenous members of the village community but remained second-class citizens within the local communities. (1998, Richard M Trivelli, P. 268) So are you "Agame Tigray migrant"?, according to this source if you are saying you are the same as Tigrayans, then you are most likely descended from Agame Tigray migrants. Otakrem ( talk) 20:38, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Eritrea's Tigrigna have increasingly distanced themselves from their Ethiopian counterparts to the extent that the two communities now seem to regard themselves as distinct. (2006, Dorina Akosua Oduraa, p. 89) Otakrem ( talk) 20:40, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Resourcer1, I don't know if other editors will accept it or not but first rename Tigrinyas and everything found in both articles as Biher-Tigrinya to 'Kebesa people'. After that rename 'Tigrayan people' as 'Tigrinya People' and in the introduction of the article we can say "Tigrinya People also known as Tigrayan people in Ethiopia and Kebesa people in Eritrea". After renaming the article that has been central for both probably there might be another new article for 'Tigrayan people' linked to this central article. Probably this might work & might be approved by other editors which is based on your proposal made above. I oppose Otakrems idea of splitting the article with no central article. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:11, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem About the miraculous comment you made on the Abyssinia talk page. You do realise in Amharic ትግሬ Tïgre respectively means Tigrayans? If you seriously thought we were calling them the Tigre in Eritrea, you have it completely wrong! It is simply two words with different meanings, stop making false accusations. Resourcer1 ( talk) 15:59, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
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you have been reported Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents-- Sennaitgebremariam ( talk) 18:51, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
And reported again. Please respond.
-- NeilN talk to me 01:49, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war according to the reverts you have made on
Talk:Abyssinian people. Users are expected to
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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Muffled Pocketed 13:05, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
Decline reason:
You were using four different accounts, two of them with no obvious disclosed connection to this account. Block is good. NeilN talk to me 13:33, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You are wasting everyone's time. Putting aside the issue of Otakrem2, check user evidence confirms that you also operated the CowardlyAbyssinian account. Of greater concern, you also operated the Puhleec account, at the same time as this account, editing and posting in the same articles and talk pages. Although you were originally blocked as a master of the Otakrem2 account (check user not having yet confirmed CowardlyAbyssinian at this time), the block tags were changed to show that you are now blocked as a sock of Puhleec. Socks are always indefinitely blocked and seldom (if ever) unblocked. The only account you stand any chance of getting unblocked is Puhleec, but the case that you would need to submit would need to be phenomenally good.
Every time you edit in Wikipedia, the server records many details about your accounts including (but not limited to), your IP address; the operating system on your PC (including version); your web browser (including version). That check user has matched all the recorded details for all four accounts makes it a near certainty that they are the same person. The issue that existed between you and Resourcer1 is now a complete red herring because all your edits and posts were in strict violation of Wikipedia's socking policy.
One other point of concern is that you have been complaining that you were unable to log into this account. Yet you seem to have been able to do so after all in order to make this unblock request. --Elektrik Fanne 11:31, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
[7], [8], [9] Otakrem ( talk) 03:38, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
By Siegbert Uhlig Page 763 - 765. Otakrem ( talk) 04:04, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Resourcer1Resaurcer1 Firstly, I didn't message you therefore your response to me here is not welcome by me. Secondly, my message was written to Soupforone for whom you have accused being a sockpuppet here which is not welcome. Thirdly, You Resourcer1 Resaucer|Resah sahstory a game (it aint) you are, you are a Sockpuppet of EthiopianHabesha and HistoryofEthiopia. Otakrem ( talk) 03:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
As regards the Tigrinya dialects, I understand what you mean. Fitzgerald writes that per Leslau, the Northern dialect is spoken in Akkele Gouzay and Hamasen in Eritrea and in Adwa in northern Ethiopia. However, following Berhane (1991), she also indicates that the Southern dialect is the Tigrinya variety that is spoken in the Tigray province in northern Ethiopia, including in the Adwa and Axum districts. Therefore, the Northern dialect does appear to be that mainly spoken in Eritrea, whereas the Southern dialect is that mainly spoken in northern Ethiopia. The lone exception is the Adwa district, where apparently both dialects are spoken. So you and Resourcer1 appear to be correct here [13]. Soupforone ( talk) 15:28, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Resourcer1, Fitzgerald asserts that the Southern Tigrinya variety is the dialect of Tigray. This is based on Berhane, who is himself apparently a speaker of the Southern dialect. She also specifies that the Axum and Adwa dialects are mainly influenced by Northern Tigrinya. Therefore, what Fitzgerald seems to be indicating here is that these two Tigray varieties are actually Southern dialects, albeit ones heavily influenced by the adjacent Northern Tigrinya dialect. Quite odd, since she also asserts per Leslau that the Northern dialect is spoken in Adwa. Soupforone ( talk) 17:41, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Please see that this Resourcer1 has done this edit to the Puhleec sockpuppet investigation, has this even been confirmed? See [14] Otakrem ( talk) 03:14, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
I am not Dusguene user. Bbb23 can you stop this resourcer1 user from continually bothering me. I've been blocked just tired of resourcer using my name in other accusations against other users. I am not an excuse for resourcer's inability to collaboritvely discuss wikipedia edits. Otakrem ( talk) 07:45, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
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Hi, how are you
There is a discussion on talkpage of Menelik's biography here regarding the death toll. Previously you supported and find it important for it's inclusion and now you are invited to list your reasons for the inclusion and to provide your opposition on the listed reasons for not including the death toll estimate. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:03, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha I have responded to the section. Otakrem ( talk) 20:39, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
Greetings Otakrem! As per the note in the Eritrea coding that the material should be brief, I have summarized it and transferred the details to the parent. Please also see WP:WPC for what are the standards. Kind Regards-- Soupforone ( talk) 02:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the Habesha etymological insight. Please see the weblink there for the Abyssinian cognate in English. Cheers-- Soupforone ( talk) 02:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Menelik II, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kaffa. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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If it is fair to include an estimate of 'millions' (depopulation) made by only one persons ambiguous comment then Bermudes should be in with very similar wordings used under Menelik to make Wikipedia a place for people to learn our past history but not for provocation and to create resentment between people and destabilise Horn of Africa (a region where there is high illiteracy). This kind of resentment was the reason that lead to Rwanda genocide in 1994. The way the death estimate put is in a biased way and not put like wikipedia articles of both world wars i.e. not in a way "X number from Menelik side died while Y number from the other side". For these reasons I am adding a paragraph below the paragraph that begins "During the conquest of the southern territories.........". The paragraph is required to show how wars in the region are carried out for compare and contrast like WW1 was mentioned several times in World War II article and like the paragraph that begins with "Land warfare changed from the static front lines of World War I........". It is also required to show why those continuous warfares were carried out by quoting Donald Levine. Adding the following:
Wars have been devastating in the region for many centuries with the last most devastating war fought before the 19th century one being the one fought in 16th century. Warfare system between these two major wars has not much changed and in 16th century the Portuguese Bermudes documented depopulation and that an army led by several successive Aba Gedas carried out atrocities against civilians and combatants including torture, mass killings and large scale slavery during their conquest of territories located north of Genale river ( Bali, Amhara, Gafat, Damot). [1] [2] [3] According to Donald, the reasons for warfare in the region is to acquire cattle, slaves, to gain territories or control over trade routes and to carry out ritual requirements or secure trophies to prove masculinity. [4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by EthiopianHabesha ( talk • contribs) 22:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
After a long discussion under Meneliks talk page we could not reach consensus as to remove 'millions' and replace extreme tone like 'Mass killings' (term used mainly for Communist regimes) and 'large scale slavery' with impartial tone like 'deaths related to wars' and 'absorbing captives and war of prisoners during battle', which is how majority neutral scholars (Europeans and others from outside HA) characterise Menelik's battle/expansion. If we go by some few extreme writers (mainly from the politicians and ethnic nationalist community) characterisation then that paragraph I proposed above stays, which is entirely written based on neutral European sources. By the way those ‘millions’ and extreme wordings were added by Stumink in the first place claiming they are important information. This is 2016 and people don’t need to have radio station to replicate what happened in Rwanda in 1994 to Ethiopia. Now we have various social medias to create resentment/hate between peoples. And for this reason people also need to know that Menelik did not transform that region from a peaceful place to a war zone as nationalist are claiming which would go against what neutral scholars characterise the region before Menelik as a place where all clans (including Oromo clans) do not respect their borders, harmed all their neighbouring clans, participated in raiding system to collect resources, committed war related killings and absorbed captives & war of prisoners at the time of battle, not also forgetting minority writers clearly & precisely claiming mass killings and claiming historical people/states disappearing as a result of it. Actually these is what the region looks like based on history books contrary to what nationalist/politicians are trying to draw a picture. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 15:12, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
EthiopianHabesha I do not understand why you are ignoring my comments which make it clear my reasons. What part of "I do not want to be involved in Original Research" do you choose to ignore? You have been warned about your Wikipedia talkpage and discussion guideline violations. You are doing it here as well. Your claim of having "adiminstrators opinion" on your side when no such thing happened is a violation of Wikipedia talk page guidelines. You are violating Wikipedia guidelines here. Otakrem ( talk) 09:44, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
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The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Eritrea's geographical naming". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 3 September 2016.
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Greetings! When you have the time, could you please have a look at Tigrinyas? Per the speculation template, the link-thrus which don't indicate that the individuals are of Tigrinya heritage should be removed. Kind Regards-- Soupforone ( talk) 02:22, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
It has been reported Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard-- tell me Sennaitgebremariam ( talk) 17:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem, I am going with 100s of past editors consensus on this article Abysinian = Semitic people (previously titled after the widely used term 'Habesha' on Bantu, Nilotic & Mixed peoples). You changed the wording of the introductory paragraph to the article after it stayed for many years as follows "The peoples referred to as "Abyssinians" today can include anyone who accepts and assimilates to the "Habesha" identity but historically it included the Amhara, Tigray etc". Let's not disrupt because I can also bring 10s of sources which applied Abyssinian on Oromo & Agaw people historically and also include them under historically it included list which I have the right to do so by bringing reliable sources. Besides Samuel makes no distinction between Habesha & Abyssinian as Munroe & Yimene did. When I included the citation saying "These Semitic-speaking African populations became the Habesha" I took it as those semitic people adopted the name Habesha (based on many sources confirmation the term Habesha not being used by Axumite kings or to refer inhabitants in Axum proper) before this citation he said there is no genetic difference between them and to Sub Saharan Africans.
I probably might add the paragraph (which begins as historically....) which Soupforone & you opposed next to the first paragraph to make wikipedia readers fully informed on Habesha identity which also is an identity name of the African Indians, and an identity name for the black people residing in the Arabian peninsula by supporting it with reliable sources. In the Abyssinian article talk page I have includded a source telling about how Afro Asiatic speaking migrants (Oromo, Amhara, Kaffa) identify themselves as Habesha (adopted from Arabs use of the term for mixed people but not on European use for semitic people whom old scholars proposed as white migrants from Yemen came & built Axum for the indigeneous people when the standing Axum oblisk is one evidence of pharonic culture borrowed from the neighboring very black Nilotic Nubians). Why fluntly Greek speaking Axumite elites clearly know the defination of 'Ethiopia' applied on more specifically the very black nilotic Nubians and adopt it if they are culturally connected to white sabeans? why take the name of the black people and and not the white peoples nation name like 'Saba', Hadraamout' etc etc. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 11:35, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Amhara/Abyssinian Imposed Identity This is your ethnic group Amhara's Imposed Identity on several ethnic groups. After reading Identity Jilted and other books written by Tigrayans, Tigrinyas, Oromos etc, I can tell that you are of the Oppressive Amhara ethnic group who imposes a Amhara-"Abyssinian" ethnonoym on the ethnic groups that your people have conquered(colonized) and/or wish to. Otakrem ( talk) 14:33, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem, you do realise Tigre people are also considered Habesha? And do you also realise that the mainland Tigre people which fell under the Abyssinia/Al-Habash region only converted to Islam in the 19th Century? For this reason alone, there is no other reasons you have left as to why they are not Habesha. Your edits are seriously frustrating and that page has now become a mess.
Another thing, why has a page been made for "Tigrinya" people? They are the same people as the Tigrayans, just split over two countries, both practice the same thing and I find it highly offensive as one to see this. Resourcer1 ( talk) 12:06, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Are the Tigre people the same people who fought against the Amhara/Abyssinians in Eritrean War for Independence? Rhetorical question, ofcourse they were...same as the Tigrinyas. They are not the same people(s)...infact, I read books outside of Wikipedia on this topic and i know more so than what you or any editor writes on Wikipedia. Otakrem ( talk) 14:29, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Actually, the Aksumites were Not Habashats. Many sources have been provided on this, go read the Talkpages on Abyssinian article. Ask for it to get locked since you want to only show ONE VIEW of this issue. Wikipedia is meant to show all important views. I'm not the first to contest nor shall I be the last. Otakrem ( talk) 15:07, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Mai Weini, a Highland Village in Eritrea: A Study of the People, Their ...
By Kjetil Tronvoll [5], an Anthropologist who actually and studied the Tigrinya ethnic group in Eritrea. Tigrayans and Tigrinya are not the same people. Infact, they have several differences including Dialect, social structure, village structures..etc. You may be an Eritrean Tigrinya who has roots from Tigray from what you are stating. Most Eritrean Tigrinyas do not see themselves as the same ethnic group as Tigrayans. Otakrem ( talk) 20:19, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
“The people of Hamazain and Serowee, since the time of Ras Michael, though speaking the same language, are still scarcely (hardly) considered by the people of Teegray as a portion of that country whose governors, since that period, have made war on them….” (1868, Walter Chichele Plowden, P. 39) The arrival of a large number of Tigray migrants introduced a new element into the colonial situation, paving the way for a development that continues to bedevil relationships between Tigray and Kebesa until the present day. The labour demands of the colonial economy not only drew a large number of rural Eritreans into the new economic centres but also attracted numerous poor Tigray migrants, particularly from the impoverished Agame province of Tigray. These migrants came as day labourers into the towns and took over jobs that the Kebesa found unattractive. In many villages, families whose sons were working for the Italians adopted the practice of taking on Tigray migrants as tenant farmers to work the lands for their absent sons. These tenants were not given land titles or local citizenship rights like the indigenous members of the village community but remained second-class citizens within the local communities. (1998, Richard M Trivelli, P. 268) So are you "Agame Tigray migrant"?, according to this source if you are saying you are the same as Tigrayans, then you are most likely descended from Agame Tigray migrants. Otakrem ( talk) 20:38, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Eritrea's Tigrigna have increasingly distanced themselves from their Ethiopian counterparts to the extent that the two communities now seem to regard themselves as distinct. (2006, Dorina Akosua Oduraa, p. 89) Otakrem ( talk) 20:40, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Resourcer1, I don't know if other editors will accept it or not but first rename Tigrinyas and everything found in both articles as Biher-Tigrinya to 'Kebesa people'. After that rename 'Tigrayan people' as 'Tigrinya People' and in the introduction of the article we can say "Tigrinya People also known as Tigrayan people in Ethiopia and Kebesa people in Eritrea". After renaming the article that has been central for both probably there might be another new article for 'Tigrayan people' linked to this central article. Probably this might work & might be approved by other editors which is based on your proposal made above. I oppose Otakrems idea of splitting the article with no central article. — EthiopianHabesha ( talk) 14:11, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem About the miraculous comment you made on the Abyssinia talk page. You do realise in Amharic ትግሬ Tïgre respectively means Tigrayans? If you seriously thought we were calling them the Tigre in Eritrea, you have it completely wrong! It is simply two words with different meanings, stop making false accusations. Resourcer1 ( talk) 15:59, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
Robert McClenon (
talk)
01:42, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
you have been reported Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents-- Sennaitgebremariam ( talk) 18:51, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
And reported again. Please respond.
-- NeilN talk to me 01:49, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war according to the reverts you have made on
Talk:Abyssinian people. Users are expected to
collaborate with others, to avoid editing
disruptively, and to
try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Muffled Pocketed 13:05, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Otakrem ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
Decline reason:
You were using four different accounts, two of them with no obvious disclosed connection to this account. Block is good. NeilN talk to me 13:33, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You are wasting everyone's time. Putting aside the issue of Otakrem2, check user evidence confirms that you also operated the CowardlyAbyssinian account. Of greater concern, you also operated the Puhleec account, at the same time as this account, editing and posting in the same articles and talk pages. Although you were originally blocked as a master of the Otakrem2 account (check user not having yet confirmed CowardlyAbyssinian at this time), the block tags were changed to show that you are now blocked as a sock of Puhleec. Socks are always indefinitely blocked and seldom (if ever) unblocked. The only account you stand any chance of getting unblocked is Puhleec, but the case that you would need to submit would need to be phenomenally good.
Every time you edit in Wikipedia, the server records many details about your accounts including (but not limited to), your IP address; the operating system on your PC (including version); your web browser (including version). That check user has matched all the recorded details for all four accounts makes it a near certainty that they are the same person. The issue that existed between you and Resourcer1 is now a complete red herring because all your edits and posts were in strict violation of Wikipedia's socking policy.
One other point of concern is that you have been complaining that you were unable to log into this account. Yet you seem to have been able to do so after all in order to make this unblock request. --Elektrik Fanne 11:31, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
[7], [8], [9] Otakrem ( talk) 03:38, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
By Siegbert Uhlig Page 763 - 765. Otakrem ( talk) 04:04, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Resourcer1Resaurcer1 Firstly, I didn't message you therefore your response to me here is not welcome by me. Secondly, my message was written to Soupforone for whom you have accused being a sockpuppet here which is not welcome. Thirdly, You Resourcer1 Resaucer|Resah sahstory a game (it aint) you are, you are a Sockpuppet of EthiopianHabesha and HistoryofEthiopia. Otakrem ( talk) 03:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
As regards the Tigrinya dialects, I understand what you mean. Fitzgerald writes that per Leslau, the Northern dialect is spoken in Akkele Gouzay and Hamasen in Eritrea and in Adwa in northern Ethiopia. However, following Berhane (1991), she also indicates that the Southern dialect is the Tigrinya variety that is spoken in the Tigray province in northern Ethiopia, including in the Adwa and Axum districts. Therefore, the Northern dialect does appear to be that mainly spoken in Eritrea, whereas the Southern dialect is that mainly spoken in northern Ethiopia. The lone exception is the Adwa district, where apparently both dialects are spoken. So you and Resourcer1 appear to be correct here [13]. Soupforone ( talk) 15:28, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Resourcer1, Fitzgerald asserts that the Southern Tigrinya variety is the dialect of Tigray. This is based on Berhane, who is himself apparently a speaker of the Southern dialect. She also specifies that the Axum and Adwa dialects are mainly influenced by Northern Tigrinya. Therefore, what Fitzgerald seems to be indicating here is that these two Tigray varieties are actually Southern dialects, albeit ones heavily influenced by the adjacent Northern Tigrinya dialect. Quite odd, since she also asserts per Leslau that the Northern dialect is spoken in Adwa. Soupforone ( talk) 17:41, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Please see that this Resourcer1 has done this edit to the Puhleec sockpuppet investigation, has this even been confirmed? See [14] Otakrem ( talk) 03:14, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
I am not Dusguene user. Bbb23 can you stop this resourcer1 user from continually bothering me. I've been blocked just tired of resourcer using my name in other accusations against other users. I am not an excuse for resourcer's inability to collaboritvely discuss wikipedia edits. Otakrem ( talk) 07:45, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
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