This page is an archive of the proposal and request for comment discussions for changing the bottom of the main page from default headings to styled headings which match the rest of the page.
The archive of the proposal discussion can be found
here
and the request for comment archive is be located
here.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Turn the default headings at the bottom into styled headings, to match the rest of the page
I made a mockup of an alternate Main Page in my userspace:
User:Nixinova/Main Page. This is what the bottom of the page looks like:
Extended content
Other areas of Wikipedia
Community portal – The central hub for editors, with resources, links, tasks, and announcements.
Village pump – Forum for discussions about Wikipedia itself, including policies and technical issues.
Site news – Sources of news about Wikipedia and the broader Wikimedia movement.
Teahouse – Ask basic questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Help desk – Ask questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Reference desk – Ask research questions about encyclopedic topics.
Content portals – A unique way to navigate the encyclopedia.
Sister projects
Wikipedia is written by volunteer editors and hosted by the
Wikimedia Foundation, a non-profit organization that also hosts a range of other volunteer
projects:
(I replaced the <h2/>s with <h3/>s so the contents won't get messed up)
I just used orange as an example (edit: please note I said *example*) but that could be any colour. I think that this looks much better than default ==headings== which have been on the main page for over almost two decades now. Wikipedia is now one of the biggest websites on the internet and it should look professional. Feel free to suggest any changes to this but I do think that this would be very beneficial.
NixinovaTC05:47, 25 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I think that it looks worse, personally. The extra frame isn't needed and just causes color clashing. We're not making ourselves look more professional by doing this.--
WaltCip (
talk)
12:58, 25 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Personally I agree with the concept since the lower sections look like they were added as an afterthought rather than flowing with the design. That being said, I feel that it has been implemented in a way designed to bring out all its cons. I would prefer a simple #f6f6f6 background for the headings with out any border(not even the defaults)
Extended content
Other areas of Wikipedia
Community portal – The central hub for editors, with resources, links, tasks, and announcements.
Village pump – Forum for discussions about Wikipedia itself, including policies and technical issues.
Site news – Sources of news about Wikipedia and the broader Wikimedia movement.
Teahouse – Ask basic questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Help desk – Ask questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Reference desk – Ask research questions about encyclopedic topics.
Content portals – A unique way to navigate the encyclopedia.
Sister projects
Wikipedia is written by volunteer editors and hosted by the
Wikimedia Foundation, a non-profit organization that also hosts a range of other volunteer
projects:
I think the second one fits much better with the first half of the current page too, there shouldn't be that style divide between them. --
Jessietail (
talk)
14:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I'm usually sceptical of attempts to redesign parts of the MP, but was pleasantly surprised to discover that this second example looks rather good and would fit with the existing design of other sections. Is the code behind it the same as the other section headings? That would ease compatibility/testing concerns.
Modest Geniustalk17:17, 28 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I have created an implementation of the idea
here.Nixinova, if you really want to change the main page you need to create (what you people all call a "Rfc") to generate consensus. Only then will the admins of the site change the main page.--
103.215.54.53 (
talk)
03:01, 28 May 2018 (UTC)reply
The spacing between boxes and the text style of the "headers" should match that of the other sections but otherwise yeah that looks like a good improvement so far. --
Jessietail (
talk)
05:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that the spacing needs to be fixed, and the header fonts need to match the rest of the page, but I really like this proposal. I think that the current header style needs to be updated, and this idea is a really good one. --
haha169 (
talk)
05:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your hard work! That looks a lot better. I hope someone with a better understanding of Wikipedia's processes and any historical discussions on this topic can bring this up for comment to help build consensus for a Main Page redesign.--
haha169 (
talk)
08:50, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I made a slight alteration to your second implementation by adding a border around the headers to match the one found around the "Welcome to Wikipedia" box.
Sample here. --
haha169 (
talk)
08:53, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I also think that adding the frame at the bottom would make it look better. The use of headers right now just stands out from the rest of the page.
SemiHypercube (
talk)
20:35, 4 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The above Main Page redesign proposal (
previous discussion here, this is my first RfC so I don't know if the previous discussion will be transcluded) made by @
Nixinova: with some adjustments by @
103.215.54.53: and myself have generated a bit of traction. I'd like to post a formal RfC in order to gain some sort of consensus about whether or not this redesign proposal should be implemented, or at least generate some discussion on any possible alternatives. --
haha169 (
talk)
02:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The proposal is just changing the bottom of the main page from default headings to styled headings which match the rest of the page. And I used orange as an example; I think the grey would work better. NixinovaTC22:25, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Because it’s almost identical. Which other top 10 website (except perhaps Google) looks almost the same as it did in 2006? It needs a complete revamp not minor tweaks of colour and borders. Aiken D21:04, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. This is a simple and straightforward change that matches the headings in the lower part of the MP with those in the upper part. I'm told the code is re-used from the upper headings so won't cause any compatibility issues. It's only a tweak to the MP design, but one which I was immediately impressed by and which makes total sense. I'm surprised no-one thought of this before; kudos for doing so.
Modest Geniustalk18:04, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. I do think that the new design looks better, although I probably would not have noticed the difference without being told. However, another reason why I support this is just to demonstrate that consensus can get the main page changed. So often I read here old lags having to disillusion enthusiastic proposers of a redesign, saying that it will never happen because of the impossibility of achieving consensus. Well here is a proposal that has a real chance of success, which perhaps will give impetus to other proposals. Personally I don't feel a need for change, but we ought not to get stuck in a situation where change is impossible.
Jmchutchinson (
talk)
18:19, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - it makes the bottom of the page fit in much better. The strong opposes haven't pointed out any problems with changing it or issues with the design.
LittlePuppers (
talk)
18:24, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support per my comments before, makes it look less like an after thought, which I had thought the bottom felt like well before this proposal.
Galobtter (
pingó mió)
18:49, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. The boxes at the bottom of the new Main Page proposal look like the rest of the Main Page. It actually looks like it belongs now.
epicgenius (
talk)
18:58, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - agree that it definitely looks more coherent. I would say the opposes are a tad odd under since they are a net positive - if it would ultimately be beneficial, even if only a little, why not go for it? Could we move the discussion (see discussion)
Nosebagbear (
talk)
19:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Why wouldn't the simpler "Sister projects" be preferred? It's a section of a Wikipedia page, that these are Wikipedia's sister pages is implied in that. --
Khajidha (
talk)
11:08, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support – The proposed change makes the affected sections appear as part of a cohesive whole—better consistency, per above.
ebbillings (
talk)
19:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
SupportThe new headers look more consistent and professional. I fell that the RFC should be explicit in highlighting the changes to the headers. — BillHPike (
talk,
contribs)
20:04, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose I like how the currently page uses a different header style to differentiate the static content from the dynamic content. The new design uses color to try to do the same thing, but that only works for non-color-blind readers. --
Ahecht (
TALK PAGE)
22:02, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
@
Ahecht:, I personally don't see the utility, from a design perspective, of differentiating static content from dynamic content. However, I'd be curious to hear what kind of color schemes we potentially could use to satisfy your concerns? --
haha169 (
talk)
02:11, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support – I'd never really noticed the inconsistency between these sections, but now that you mention it the redesigned version really does look much better.
BegbertBiggs (
talk)
23:54, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. Looks cleaner, the styling is more visually appealing, appears more professional and it is more consistent with the rest of the page. And as for the 4 opposes, 2 of them seem to just say that the change is not big enough or that the main page is okay how it is now and another was just pointing out a mistake that
Nixinova made - in my opinion, Ahecht's was the only one that had a good argument. And I definitely do like the gray better than the orange, the orange just stands out too much and seems to call attention to solely the headings.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?00:45, 7 June 2018 (UTC) (Madminecrafter12 on MCW)reply
Support: Um, I thought that the transcluded parts were already given their own box. I guess I was mistaken. (Could barely see the difference, honestly, if the box wasn't there.) Anyway, yes, the difference is mighty subtle, but the styling consistency it creates is wondrous. —
Javert2113 (
talk; please
ping me in your reply on this page)
03:12, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support I already said in the discussion above, just putting my response here for the RfC. I think it blends in more and looks better.
SemiHypercube (
talk)
12:54, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support It is an extremely simple nit-picky change, but it makes sense and the bottom sections look consistent with the rest of the main page. I went back and looked at the
orange border version and I agree the gray looks much nicer.
ZettaComposer (
talk)
14:53, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support, as said above, it's only a small improvement, but it is an improvement, and it's good to actually use this process to update the Main Page. --
The Anome (
talk)
19:52, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment. At the same time, can someone do something with those boxy 1990s-style pastel headings? Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to do that.
86.191.146.125 (
talk)
01:32, 9 June 2018 (UTC)reply
By the way, does anyone remember the horrified opposition to suggestions that images should have captions? All kinds of silly objections raised and persisted in? And now it's been done, and the improvement realised, what was all the fuss about? If only someone could learn the lesson and apply it to wider design issues.
86.191.146.125 (
talk)
02:08, 9 June 2018 (UTC)reply
There's a difference between content (e.g. the picture captions, which are great) and style, which is entirely subjective. One person's unliked pastel headings are another's clear-and-legible design. The supposition that because something has been around for a while it needs changing is a false one.
Bazza (
talk)
10:11, 9 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The current design of the main page looks as if the lower sections were added as an after-thought rather than flowing with the design. This change seeks to remedy exactly that. The default headers in the lower section have been replaced by grey headers and a border has been added around the lower sections. All this has been done keeping in mind the aesthetics of the design as a whole. The rest of the main page remains unaltered, untouched. Most of the code has been replicated from other parts of the main page and thus is proven to be compatible with a large number of devices. I believe this a small step towards making the Main Page of the world's fifth most busiest website better in terms of looks.
122.163.11.63 (
talk)
15:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
This RfC would probably go more smoothly if the introductory paragraph gave a brief indication of what changed in the updated design and why, rather than hoping editors will go off and read the discussion from almost two weeks ago and which will archived imminently.
Modest Geniustalk18:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Probably a wise idea - would ease the process, and stop people thinking it's becoming orange. Perhaps also worth putting a current main page link right next door just for ease of comparison. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Nosebagbear (
talk •
contribs)
19:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Good idea - I had provided a link to the previous discussion but I should have spent a minute describing the changes in more detail. This is a learning experience for me as well :) --
haha169 (
talk)
01:58, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
I almost feel this kind of subtle change is something that could have been handled and implemented through edit fully-protected request, but I suppose it is better to be on the safe side. No opinion on this either way.
Alex Shih (
talk)
12:32, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This page is an archive of the proposal and request for comment discussions for changing the bottom of the main page from default headings to styled headings which match the rest of the page.
The archive of the proposal discussion can be found
here
and the request for comment archive is be located
here.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Turn the default headings at the bottom into styled headings, to match the rest of the page
I made a mockup of an alternate Main Page in my userspace:
User:Nixinova/Main Page. This is what the bottom of the page looks like:
Extended content
Other areas of Wikipedia
Community portal – The central hub for editors, with resources, links, tasks, and announcements.
Village pump – Forum for discussions about Wikipedia itself, including policies and technical issues.
Site news – Sources of news about Wikipedia and the broader Wikimedia movement.
Teahouse – Ask basic questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Help desk – Ask questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Reference desk – Ask research questions about encyclopedic topics.
Content portals – A unique way to navigate the encyclopedia.
Sister projects
Wikipedia is written by volunteer editors and hosted by the
Wikimedia Foundation, a non-profit organization that also hosts a range of other volunteer
projects:
(I replaced the <h2/>s with <h3/>s so the contents won't get messed up)
I just used orange as an example (edit: please note I said *example*) but that could be any colour. I think that this looks much better than default ==headings== which have been on the main page for over almost two decades now. Wikipedia is now one of the biggest websites on the internet and it should look professional. Feel free to suggest any changes to this but I do think that this would be very beneficial.
NixinovaTC05:47, 25 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I think that it looks worse, personally. The extra frame isn't needed and just causes color clashing. We're not making ourselves look more professional by doing this.--
WaltCip (
talk)
12:58, 25 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Personally I agree with the concept since the lower sections look like they were added as an afterthought rather than flowing with the design. That being said, I feel that it has been implemented in a way designed to bring out all its cons. I would prefer a simple #f6f6f6 background for the headings with out any border(not even the defaults)
Extended content
Other areas of Wikipedia
Community portal – The central hub for editors, with resources, links, tasks, and announcements.
Village pump – Forum for discussions about Wikipedia itself, including policies and technical issues.
Site news – Sources of news about Wikipedia and the broader Wikimedia movement.
Teahouse – Ask basic questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Help desk – Ask questions about using or editing Wikipedia.
Reference desk – Ask research questions about encyclopedic topics.
Content portals – A unique way to navigate the encyclopedia.
Sister projects
Wikipedia is written by volunteer editors and hosted by the
Wikimedia Foundation, a non-profit organization that also hosts a range of other volunteer
projects:
I think the second one fits much better with the first half of the current page too, there shouldn't be that style divide between them. --
Jessietail (
talk)
14:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I'm usually sceptical of attempts to redesign parts of the MP, but was pleasantly surprised to discover that this second example looks rather good and would fit with the existing design of other sections. Is the code behind it the same as the other section headings? That would ease compatibility/testing concerns.
Modest Geniustalk17:17, 28 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I have created an implementation of the idea
here.Nixinova, if you really want to change the main page you need to create (what you people all call a "Rfc") to generate consensus. Only then will the admins of the site change the main page.--
103.215.54.53 (
talk)
03:01, 28 May 2018 (UTC)reply
The spacing between boxes and the text style of the "headers" should match that of the other sections but otherwise yeah that looks like a good improvement so far. --
Jessietail (
talk)
05:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that the spacing needs to be fixed, and the header fonts need to match the rest of the page, but I really like this proposal. I think that the current header style needs to be updated, and this idea is a really good one. --
haha169 (
talk)
05:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your hard work! That looks a lot better. I hope someone with a better understanding of Wikipedia's processes and any historical discussions on this topic can bring this up for comment to help build consensus for a Main Page redesign.--
haha169 (
talk)
08:50, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I made a slight alteration to your second implementation by adding a border around the headers to match the one found around the "Welcome to Wikipedia" box.
Sample here. --
haha169 (
talk)
08:53, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I also think that adding the frame at the bottom would make it look better. The use of headers right now just stands out from the rest of the page.
SemiHypercube (
talk)
20:35, 4 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The above Main Page redesign proposal (
previous discussion here, this is my first RfC so I don't know if the previous discussion will be transcluded) made by @
Nixinova: with some adjustments by @
103.215.54.53: and myself have generated a bit of traction. I'd like to post a formal RfC in order to gain some sort of consensus about whether or not this redesign proposal should be implemented, or at least generate some discussion on any possible alternatives. --
haha169 (
talk)
02:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The proposal is just changing the bottom of the main page from default headings to styled headings which match the rest of the page. And I used orange as an example; I think the grey would work better. NixinovaTC22:25, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Because it’s almost identical. Which other top 10 website (except perhaps Google) looks almost the same as it did in 2006? It needs a complete revamp not minor tweaks of colour and borders. Aiken D21:04, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. This is a simple and straightforward change that matches the headings in the lower part of the MP with those in the upper part. I'm told the code is re-used from the upper headings so won't cause any compatibility issues. It's only a tweak to the MP design, but one which I was immediately impressed by and which makes total sense. I'm surprised no-one thought of this before; kudos for doing so.
Modest Geniustalk18:04, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. I do think that the new design looks better, although I probably would not have noticed the difference without being told. However, another reason why I support this is just to demonstrate that consensus can get the main page changed. So often I read here old lags having to disillusion enthusiastic proposers of a redesign, saying that it will never happen because of the impossibility of achieving consensus. Well here is a proposal that has a real chance of success, which perhaps will give impetus to other proposals. Personally I don't feel a need for change, but we ought not to get stuck in a situation where change is impossible.
Jmchutchinson (
talk)
18:19, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - it makes the bottom of the page fit in much better. The strong opposes haven't pointed out any problems with changing it or issues with the design.
LittlePuppers (
talk)
18:24, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support per my comments before, makes it look less like an after thought, which I had thought the bottom felt like well before this proposal.
Galobtter (
pingó mió)
18:49, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. The boxes at the bottom of the new Main Page proposal look like the rest of the Main Page. It actually looks like it belongs now.
epicgenius (
talk)
18:58, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - agree that it definitely looks more coherent. I would say the opposes are a tad odd under since they are a net positive - if it would ultimately be beneficial, even if only a little, why not go for it? Could we move the discussion (see discussion)
Nosebagbear (
talk)
19:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Why wouldn't the simpler "Sister projects" be preferred? It's a section of a Wikipedia page, that these are Wikipedia's sister pages is implied in that. --
Khajidha (
talk)
11:08, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support – The proposed change makes the affected sections appear as part of a cohesive whole—better consistency, per above.
ebbillings (
talk)
19:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
SupportThe new headers look more consistent and professional. I fell that the RFC should be explicit in highlighting the changes to the headers. — BillHPike (
talk,
contribs)
20:04, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose I like how the currently page uses a different header style to differentiate the static content from the dynamic content. The new design uses color to try to do the same thing, but that only works for non-color-blind readers. --
Ahecht (
TALK PAGE)
22:02, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
@
Ahecht:, I personally don't see the utility, from a design perspective, of differentiating static content from dynamic content. However, I'd be curious to hear what kind of color schemes we potentially could use to satisfy your concerns? --
haha169 (
talk)
02:11, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support – I'd never really noticed the inconsistency between these sections, but now that you mention it the redesigned version really does look much better.
BegbertBiggs (
talk)
23:54, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. Looks cleaner, the styling is more visually appealing, appears more professional and it is more consistent with the rest of the page. And as for the 4 opposes, 2 of them seem to just say that the change is not big enough or that the main page is okay how it is now and another was just pointing out a mistake that
Nixinova made - in my opinion, Ahecht's was the only one that had a good argument. And I definitely do like the gray better than the orange, the orange just stands out too much and seems to call attention to solely the headings.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?00:45, 7 June 2018 (UTC) (Madminecrafter12 on MCW)reply
Support: Um, I thought that the transcluded parts were already given their own box. I guess I was mistaken. (Could barely see the difference, honestly, if the box wasn't there.) Anyway, yes, the difference is mighty subtle, but the styling consistency it creates is wondrous. —
Javert2113 (
talk; please
ping me in your reply on this page)
03:12, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support I already said in the discussion above, just putting my response here for the RfC. I think it blends in more and looks better.
SemiHypercube (
talk)
12:54, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support It is an extremely simple nit-picky change, but it makes sense and the bottom sections look consistent with the rest of the main page. I went back and looked at the
orange border version and I agree the gray looks much nicer.
ZettaComposer (
talk)
14:53, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support, as said above, it's only a small improvement, but it is an improvement, and it's good to actually use this process to update the Main Page. --
The Anome (
talk)
19:52, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment. At the same time, can someone do something with those boxy 1990s-style pastel headings? Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to do that.
86.191.146.125 (
talk)
01:32, 9 June 2018 (UTC)reply
By the way, does anyone remember the horrified opposition to suggestions that images should have captions? All kinds of silly objections raised and persisted in? And now it's been done, and the improvement realised, what was all the fuss about? If only someone could learn the lesson and apply it to wider design issues.
86.191.146.125 (
talk)
02:08, 9 June 2018 (UTC)reply
There's a difference between content (e.g. the picture captions, which are great) and style, which is entirely subjective. One person's unliked pastel headings are another's clear-and-legible design. The supposition that because something has been around for a while it needs changing is a false one.
Bazza (
talk)
10:11, 9 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The current design of the main page looks as if the lower sections were added as an after-thought rather than flowing with the design. This change seeks to remedy exactly that. The default headers in the lower section have been replaced by grey headers and a border has been added around the lower sections. All this has been done keeping in mind the aesthetics of the design as a whole. The rest of the main page remains unaltered, untouched. Most of the code has been replicated from other parts of the main page and thus is proven to be compatible with a large number of devices. I believe this a small step towards making the Main Page of the world's fifth most busiest website better in terms of looks.
122.163.11.63 (
talk)
15:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
This RfC would probably go more smoothly if the introductory paragraph gave a brief indication of what changed in the updated design and why, rather than hoping editors will go off and read the discussion from almost two weeks ago and which will archived imminently.
Modest Geniustalk18:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Probably a wise idea - would ease the process, and stop people thinking it's becoming orange. Perhaps also worth putting a current main page link right next door just for ease of comparison. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Nosebagbear (
talk •
contribs)
19:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Good idea - I had provided a link to the previous discussion but I should have spent a minute describing the changes in more detail. This is a learning experience for me as well :) --
haha169 (
talk)
01:58, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
I almost feel this kind of subtle change is something that could have been handled and implemented through edit fully-protected request, but I suppose it is better to be on the safe side. No opinion on this either way.
Alex Shih (
talk)
12:32, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.