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Please use this section for any questions, or suggestions for any conflicts which are likely to need sublists and are not already mentioned. Mjroots ( talk) 17:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
Comments copied from WT:MILHIST.
I think that you're grossly underestimating the scale of the task you've set yourself unless they're confined to operations other than war like Chechneya, Ukraine, etc. Wartime losses in combat total somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 aircraft with the exact cause of loss unknown for many aircraft. I suppose that a loose definition of lost during an operational sortie/shot down by an enemy aircraft could be used to separate out training losses, but still...-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 17:23, 16 June 2014 (UTC)#
Copied from WT:AV -
Good luck - you might want to look at List of most produced aircraft to give you an idea of the scale - a significant number of the several hundreds of thousands of aircraft built just during WW2 were shot down, and records are not always either accurate, or still in existence. Since the end of WW2, it gets a lot easier but the records are still incomplete. Kill claims are notoriously inaccurate - both the Flying Tigers in China, and the USAF in Korea claimed to have shot down more opposing fighters than had EVER been in their theatres of operations during the entire time they were operational - you'll need to go to the horses mouth and get records for each combatant, on what aircraft they recorded as having lost. In addition, records are not always made on the day of the actual loss, and a significant proportion of those records have not been published as useable secondary references. NiD.29 ( talk) 05:30, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Another issue we'll need to define is what a "combat mission" is. I'd say that it would include spotting/reconnaisance, escort duties, infantry & artillery support, bombing missions, special operations, dogfights. Aircraft expended during battles (e.g. CAM ship operations, gliders during Operation Overlord, Operation Market Garden etc). Aircraft lost on warships / CAM ships sunk due to enemy action would qualify. Excluded would be training (including training for specific combat operations, navexes, transport operations etc unless the loss was directly due to enemy action. Similarly, aircraft lost during the Berlin Airlift would be outside the scope of this. They are probably best dealt with as a section of that article. Mjroots ( talk) 19:31, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
For the between the wars era - there were a number of major conflicts that involved significant numbers of aircraft, including the Chinese Civil War and Second Sino-Japanese War, the Spanish Civil War, several South American Wars, including the Chaco War. These should probably be split apart. For WW2, it might be more manageable, and useful by theater (Pacific/Asia/Southern Europe/Western Europe/Africa/Eastern Front), then by month since losses can then be more meaningfully compared. Similarly with the post war era, it might be better to break them into specific conflicts, as otherwise the numbers of losses (if the list ever achieves that degree of completion) are otherwise pretty meaningless. Of course this can wait until the actual number of entries is larger. NiD.29 ( talk) 07:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Aviation NA‑class | |||||||
|
Military history User‑class | |||||||||||||||||||
|
Please use this section for any questions, or suggestions for any conflicts which are likely to need sublists and are not already mentioned. Mjroots ( talk) 17:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
Comments copied from WT:MILHIST.
I think that you're grossly underestimating the scale of the task you've set yourself unless they're confined to operations other than war like Chechneya, Ukraine, etc. Wartime losses in combat total somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 aircraft with the exact cause of loss unknown for many aircraft. I suppose that a loose definition of lost during an operational sortie/shot down by an enemy aircraft could be used to separate out training losses, but still...-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 17:23, 16 June 2014 (UTC)#
Copied from WT:AV -
Good luck - you might want to look at List of most produced aircraft to give you an idea of the scale - a significant number of the several hundreds of thousands of aircraft built just during WW2 were shot down, and records are not always either accurate, or still in existence. Since the end of WW2, it gets a lot easier but the records are still incomplete. Kill claims are notoriously inaccurate - both the Flying Tigers in China, and the USAF in Korea claimed to have shot down more opposing fighters than had EVER been in their theatres of operations during the entire time they were operational - you'll need to go to the horses mouth and get records for each combatant, on what aircraft they recorded as having lost. In addition, records are not always made on the day of the actual loss, and a significant proportion of those records have not been published as useable secondary references. NiD.29 ( talk) 05:30, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Another issue we'll need to define is what a "combat mission" is. I'd say that it would include spotting/reconnaisance, escort duties, infantry & artillery support, bombing missions, special operations, dogfights. Aircraft expended during battles (e.g. CAM ship operations, gliders during Operation Overlord, Operation Market Garden etc). Aircraft lost on warships / CAM ships sunk due to enemy action would qualify. Excluded would be training (including training for specific combat operations, navexes, transport operations etc unless the loss was directly due to enemy action. Similarly, aircraft lost during the Berlin Airlift would be outside the scope of this. They are probably best dealt with as a section of that article. Mjroots ( talk) 19:31, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
For the between the wars era - there were a number of major conflicts that involved significant numbers of aircraft, including the Chinese Civil War and Second Sino-Japanese War, the Spanish Civil War, several South American Wars, including the Chaco War. These should probably be split apart. For WW2, it might be more manageable, and useful by theater (Pacific/Asia/Southern Europe/Western Europe/Africa/Eastern Front), then by month since losses can then be more meaningfully compared. Similarly with the post war era, it might be better to break them into specific conflicts, as otherwise the numbers of losses (if the list ever achieves that degree of completion) are otherwise pretty meaningless. Of course this can wait until the actual number of entries is larger. NiD.29 ( talk) 07:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)