I searched, no definite source. I'd seen it on several different sites, but the url I retrieved it from was: http://www.joerod.com/archives/liljohnhighschoolpic.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by D Major ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 2 October 2005
Sorry for turning to you once again, but there's a minor dispute at the James Stewart (actor) page regarding the sourcing a non-notable book making "claims" that Stewart was a spy for the U.S. government. Not only does the claim itself sound absurd, but the book that the user who added the content (quoted below) cited sounds non-notable and obscure in itself. The author seems to not have published many other reputable books, does not have a strong Google presence, the book has only a few minor articles mostly in internet pages, and the publisher is not well known. Added to this is the fact that there are no user comments about the books on Amazon.com. I don't think the source is reputable, but not knowing the intricacies of WP policy I figured I'd ask you first before I put this up for comment. I've contacted the user who posted the "facts," but he's resorted to turning the argument against me personally, while not posing any logical (in my opinion) reason for the inclusion of the unsubstantiated information. Much of the discussion can be found at the page's talk and history (in description) pages. Volatile 17:57, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
First of all, I wanted to let you know that I've responded to your comments at vandalism talk. However, please refrain from reverting what you argue is "low-level" vandalism. Instead I urge you to follow the dispute resolution process. Also, I'd like to gently remind you that WP:3RR does not entitle you to three reverts a day. Thanks. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 19:47, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
It's not that I believe that songs should be exempt from normal naming. I know the Manual Of Style specifies principal words such as prepositions should not be capitalized in the title of works, but, I don't think it delves into the specifics of the grammar rules: "Headline style calls for all principal words to be capitalized (also called caps & lc). Unfortunately authorities differ widely on what words are principal. Langley rules for headline style capitalization are based on the G.P.O. (1984) and are as follows: Do not capitalize the articles a, an, and the; the prepositions or adverbs at, by, for, of, in, up, on, and to; and the conjunctions and, as, but, if, or, and nor. In effect, this rule means that words of four or more letters are considered principal words and are capitalized" http://www.sti.nasa.gov/publish/sp7084.pdf (page 87) I won't revert it again, or any of the other song articles for that matter. It's something to take into consideration though. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 16:56, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't agree with what you did on that article. I admit that it's far from being encyclopedia-writing-styled but i think it's better than nothing. That's why I put the WIKIFY tag. I expect to enlarge it as I collect more information. STUB tag.
So, now I'm reverting...
good luck —Preceding unsigned comment added by N0thingness ( talk • contribs) 19:17, 3 October 2005
Please stop reverting my edits without even considering them. Boa —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boa ( talk • contribs) 21:16, 3 October 2005
Hi Mel.
When you get a chance can you look at the last comments on the McDojo talk page. I know you've locked the Bullshido article, but from a catagorical perspective, it's highly inaccurate to list the term as a sub-catagory of an aspect of what it's trying to communicate. I realize that the VfDs were judged to be what they were, but I'd really like you to address this point on the discussion page if you could. -- Phrost 21:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
On the TfD listing for this template, you voted to "wait". I just wanted to let you know that all of the images tagged with this template have been deleted, so you may want to reconsider your vote. Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 00:09, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel Etitis. You are an admin, and I noticed that you are editing right now so I thought I might ask you a favor. I just noticed that there is a user that keep vandalizing Template:Sealand table by blanking it, eventhough he has been warned to stop what he's doing. I really don't know what the conflict is about, and I haven't been involved, but blanking is of course not acceptable in any case. Maybe you could take a look at it? -- Karl Meier 09:03, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
I've repeatedly encountered – in the oddest places but never chased up their perpetrator user. Now, however, I see: ... the fuss made when I was – wrongly – interpreted as using that argument .... Er, every style guide I've seen says that — is the tool for this job (and some others), while – is limited to spans ("pages 20–31") and a few other miscellaneous purposes ("Tallinn–Helsinki traffic", "Los Angeles–based", etc.). But I could be out of date: am I missing some innovation here?
If this merits a reply, please reply here rather than on my page as fragmented discussions hurt my neck. -- Hoary 15:16, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
(Herbert Rees Rules of Printed English)
The use of the em rule for almost everything except joining numbers is recent (at least on this side of the Atlantic), and (I think) the result of the decline in typesetting skills, and the need for a simplified set of rules. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 15:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunately my copy of Hart's is in a box at the botom of a pile of boxes, which is little better than being an hour's train-ride away; my memory was that it agreed with Rees, but I might well be wrong. Rees, incidentally, was an editor at Longman's, and chief editor at Bookprint. Darton, Longman & Todd is "The UK's leading independent publisher of spirituality and religion" (it says here); no, I've never heard of the, either, except for the Rees book. Sir Ernest Gowers' The Complete Plain Words (my copy's from 1964) uses en rules for parentheses (see the section on dashes, p.249) — but then he uses them for everything else too. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 13:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
I noticed that you nominated both Luxurious and Pucci Petwear for deletion on the grounds of notability. I point out that Wikipedia:Deletion policy has nothing about notability, and that an attempt to add notability as a deletion criteria failed to generate consensus. Furthermore, I point out that the deletion policy specifically states that articles that are "Such a minor branch of a subject that it doesn't deserve an article" should be merged, not deleted.
In light of this, I ask you to reconsider your practice of making nominations on these grounds - instead consider the verifiability, vanity, and dicdef policies, which I think can be used to delete about 90% of the crap that gets nominated for deletion. Snowspinner 15:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello Mel, Sorry to bother you but, I have a question for you since you started a new article on the indie film Democrazy after the original article about the film had been deleted after a vote. What is the procedure?
I had assumed after your creating a new article on the film and the ones who were so dead set against it, stopped their campaign to remove it, that if someone else starts an article up and the original reasons why something had been deleted were removed that an article on something such as Democrazy could eventually be made.
Another indie film which was originally deleted The Deserter because it was believed to be advertising was created again as The Deserter (2003) by a different user: Rms125a@hotmail.com or 70.19.29.244 and it was erased by one of the original delete voters who is now an administrator. The creator's IP address 70.19.29.244 is out of New York and it seemed obvious that it was not the same user who created it the first time.
So is this right? An article about a film or anything else that was deleted can never be written about again even if the reasons for deletion no longer apply? Anyway, I was just wondering whether you knew the answers to any of my questions. Thank you. Plank
As this is an unncessary neologism, I've reverted to "benevolent" at Hindu answers to the problem of evil; I've also left a message at Talk:Omnibenevolence. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 13:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
I realize that I should use an edit summary, but have you considered how awful it'd be to write 700+ edit summaries in the span of 24 hours on one single task? - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
You have been stalking Annittas, OmegaWikipedia, and myself. End of discussion.
Now I see your ignorance on Kelly Clarkson's music single pages continues to expand. A compromise was finally brought up (this being the "World" and "Billboard") to steer away from the previous confusion of the charts, however, you continuously revert them to your preference because that's what you want: things to be your way. This can also be shown through User:Extraordinary Machine. He wants to use his style of music single info box, and because some people are opposing, he is filing a complaint (from what I've heard, excuse me if this is inaccurate information). Six people agreed on this compromise, so I will be reverting all of Kelly Clarkson's single articles.
Oh, and please do not call these pages "pop music articles", since some of them (notably Green Day and Mariah Carey) do not play pop music. Clarkson's music is not even very "pop" anymore, as she has moved into more of a pop rock section. Winnermario 20:51, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey. Sorry to bother you again. I've noticed in the album articles, and a few others, that there you are engaged in ongoing disputes. However, it seems that these are unresolved disputes. You and the other editors seem to have been reverting each other back and forth. I know you think the dispute resolution process is fruitless, but I recommend using it or finding another solution to the problem. Reverting ad infinitum does not solve anything. Thanks. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 03:57, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your help on this, Mel. — Davenbelle 04:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
You wrote
:#{Context: I'd nominated two of the AfDs affected.) I don't want to make too much of this (though I hope he doesn't do it again), and the suggestion that he lose his adminship seems unnecessary to me (I may have missed something, but did his admin powers feature in any of this?) — but, aside from the initial mistaken behaviour, he might respond better when other editors try to discuss the issue with him. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 13:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I suppose the ability to delete the AfDs had something to do with his admin powers? Filiocht | The kettle's on 13:53, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel, I meant to delete the sentence "He was also awarded the Padma Bhushan" as 3 paragraphs before, the fact is already mentioned saying that a grateful nation awarded him the Padma Bhushan in 1968 for his efforts in fighting Naga insurgency. Hence I'd be reverting your edit which re-included the sentence. Regards, Gurubrahma 15:29, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel - haven't seen you around in a long time. How are you? Could you have a look at my comment at Talk:Creation-evolution_controversy#Theory_and_Law - I am trying to answer philosophy of science questions based on "gut feeling" as much as anything, and I may be completely wrong on the last bit. Thanks. Guettarda 17:26, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry I won't do it again; I was just curious to see if something I wrote could actually get onto the website. My apologies and I didn't know it was vandalism. Wikipedia's a great website :D
You Wrote: Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:04, 5 October 2005 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.222.139.184 ( talk • contribs) 00:56, 6 October 2005
regarding the use of 'artifact' in the Sphere (novel) article, get back to me when people who use artefact live in a country with a higher GDP than America. love, Scapermoya 07:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Im not being unpleasent, this is ridiculous. The website you cited is partially in english, so I don't understand how that is any kind of evidence. I have grown up and been educated in America and artifact is the widely accepted spelling. Let me know is there is a country that sets a better cultural precedent in the english language (hint: the UK's motto is in French). I think the fact that wikipedia's article on atrefacts redirects to artifact, not the other way around, is precedent enough to make my edit valid. Not to mention (from the article) "Artifact as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary is "anything made by human art and workmanship; an artificial product."" I am not going to play editing tennis with you. love, Scapermoya 23:36, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I have expanded the article on this song significantly and provided sources. I would be grateful if you could have a look at the rewritten version. Capitalistroadster 10:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for catching my error regarding Suleiman Pasha. I'll be more careful in the future. Perhaps there should be a note in an HTML comment that it is not the same person as in the Suleiman Pasha article, since I'm probably not the first the make this mistake. Mike Dillon 15:09, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
hello, thank you for taking time looking at the manilyn reynes page. I would be very happy if you could help me out . I am not that familiar with the whole thing yet, but very willing to learn and stuff. I really appreciate your honest comments. Hope to hear from you more. By the way, sorry about the removal of the clean up sign. pebblewash
Mel, are you knowledgable on the topic of South Asian history? Just asking because I may need your help to moderate in certain articles later in the future. Thanks as always, a.n.o.n.y.m t 23:38, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
You may want to see the RFC that has been filed against you: Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Mel_Etitis -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 05:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello, sorry for the long message.
In March 2005, there was a WP:RM request and vote (which you took part in) to move Úbeda to Ubeda, with a 6-3 result, see Talk:Ubeda#Requested_move:_.C3.9Abeda_.E2.86.92_Ubeda (or perhaps here if renamed).
However, beginning in April 2005 and lasting several months, there was a survey conducted at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English)#Proposal and straw poll regarding place names with diacritical marks, with dozens of participants voting and discussing over an extended period of time. The purpose of the survey was to try to gather feedback for what the policy should be globally. Proponents of diacritics were in the majority, and in general, use of diacritics is widespread in actual practice on Wikipedia today (particularly since the Mediawiki upgrade to Unicode).
However, for Úbeda/Ubeda, Philip Baird Shearer is stating that the WP:RM vote takes precedence over the survey results, and a new WP:RM vote would be required to move it to Úbeda. My position is that there should be a global policy rather than case-by-case voting -- that was the whole purpose of the survey. In discussion with him, I wrote:
See the discussion at Talk:Ubeda#Talk_page_discussion_on_page_move (or perhaps here if renamed).
As a possible alternative to calling a new WP:RM vote which might set a precedent for case-by-case voting across thousands of articles, I am polling all the participants of the original WP:RM vote to ask:
Note, since Philip Baird Shearer was one of the participants in that vote, he will also be receiving this message and thus will have the opportunity to respond. -- Curps 05:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
For what it's worth, and for the information of all the voters in the March requested move vote, there's now a new requested move vote at
Talk:Ubeda. --
Curps
01:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Name may be wrong ("Pakistan freedom fighters"), but fact remains, that there are many people who fought for indepedence of Pakistan. It is similar to India, where many people fought at different levels. May be some of them were not fighting with arms, but they were contributing. Evern if we delte this, there should be category which deals with people who took part in indepedence movement of Pakistan. Please suggest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spasage ( talk • contribs) 09:20, 7 October 2005
Hehe. You left that unsubstituted File:Smile fasdfdsfoiueire.gif Alphax τ ε χ 10:40, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello. Could you advise what I should do to such situation: [3]? Briefly, it was resulted from the new section that I've added for Macao. User:Huaiwei insisted it should instead be spelt "Macau". Both spellings are used by the Macanese government in English, but "Macao" is preferred, and is the spelling used in the English name printed on the passports the government issues. In my opinion, no particular preference should be given to any of the two spellings, as colour vs. color. To avoid edit warring, I put on the {{ twoversions}} tag, but Huaiwei keeps reverting back to the other version which he prefers. — Insta ntnood 14:16, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
For your information, Mel Etitis, I've never changed the displayed version to my opponents' version just because of being questioned on my motives. My policy is to display a version according to what the certain article was like before the disputes. List of railways in China is an example. — Insta ntnood 15:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
As for Macao/Macau, I've never changed existing text from Macao to Macau, or the other way round (except that both appears in the same article, that standardised is necessary). It's unavoidable to choose one of the two spellings when adding new content, like creating new articles, or adding information about Macao/Macau to articles that previously have nothing about Macao/Macau. — Insta ntnood 15:24, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
You have been blocked for 24 hours for violating the three-revert rule on Because of You (Kelly Clarkson song). Please do not unblock yourself, and if you have any questions or comments about this block, leave them on this page; I've put it on my watchlist and will try to respond to you as quickly as possible. Ral 315 WS 15:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
We've actually informally crossed paths, in a good way. You thanked me for merging Enrico Caruso recordings, and discussing the name of the Help album that was accidentally moved into the Help namespace. I couldn't find your edit about welcome messages, though perhaps it's been lost to time :)
I endorsed the summary that Phroziac and Bmicomp provided because I believe that revert wars are harmful, particularly when admins act on them. Never have I needed to use more than one revert a day, save for page blanking and other blatant vandalism. I expect all users to minimize revert wars, particularly admins (like it or not, admins do have a higher status in the Wikipedia community, and I therefore expect admins to act in a slightly more proper way than I would a normal user). I do agree that the edits you made helped the articles; however, repeatedly reverting is still reverting. Perhaps taking out an RFC on the users you had warred with would have been a better way to do so.
Finally, I want you to know that I don't have any hard feelings toward you; I respect you, and clearly the Wikipedia community respected you, as you were granted adminship, and have made numerous great edits that have improved Wikipedia. However, in this particular case, I choose to go against you- not because of some personal vendetta, or an attempt for revenge, but because I believe that the way you acted was wrong in this case. Please understand this. Best wishes... Ral 315 WS 05:17, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
On The Water is Wide, why is the page title in quotes (" ")? I thought books were in italics and songs were in quotes. -- Commander Keane 17:06, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
This newly created article is almost entirely incorrect, but should never have been created anyway, since the correct (and corretly named) Jelly baby already exists. Being relatively new around here I'm not sure of the correct procedure. -- SMeeds 22:42, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
I was too quick to report it. It has now been fixed by someone else. -- SMeeds 23:01, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Mel, I noticed you moved CCH Pounder to C.C.H. Pounder. I know it's unusual punctuation, but I did the research when I was cleaning up the article a while back ('swhy it's on my watchlist). "CCH" is her professional name, as used on her official website, her SAG registration, IMDb, the Los Angeles Times, People magazine, and more. She hasn't used "C.C.H." since the very beginning of her acting career. There should definitely be a redirect, but I think it should go the other direction. What do you think?
Thanks for keeping up the janitorial work, by the way; it's the little folks with the brooms that keep the place so shiny.... — Catherine\ talk 02:15, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel, Willmcw started a tradition whereby whichever one of us had the RfC was sent the sunflower of sympathy and solidarity, and sadly I see it's your turn. I'm sorry you're having to put up with this, and I hope you're not letting it get to you. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:45, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Mel: Please let me start out by stating that I have no doubt that your reversion behavior is founded entirely in good faith; you think you're doing this for the good of Wikipedia. Let me also, then, add that I think your method is unacceptable. Low-speed edit wars do not help anyone. I realize that you're dealing with fractious users. I must wonder, however, if your "revert first and ask questions later if at all" approach is helping to make them more fractious and possibly even chasing them off. If so, then you are harming Wikipedia. In any case, your method is one which policy and the ArbCom both clearly disapprove of, and you really should stop it.
In addition, I must object to the following statement in your response to the RfC: "I don't know what their motivation is, but it seems clearly to be neither a sense of fairness nor a genuine concern for the quality of Wikipedia." This statement is a personal attack of two adminstrators in good standing; to accuse a fellow administrator of not having a sense of fairness, or of not having a concern for the quality of Wikipedia, is unacceptable. I strongly urge you to retract this statement as it will be used against you should this matter go before the ArbCom, which I am starting to suspect that it will (although I have urged against it).
I implore you to find a better way to deal with these issues. Persistent low-grade edit wars are not an option. Regards, Kelly Martin 07:24, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry to trouble you, but I see that you're an admin, and that you've had dealings with this User, and have suffered the sort of thing that I'm suffering. After correcting some English on an article, and adding the "copyedit" template, PM Poon made some edits and removed the "copyedit" label. The article was no better (in some respects worse), and I replaced the label, explaining my action to PM Poon. Since then he's been harassing me on my Talk page, leaving long, insulting, and hostile messages. He's also started going through the list of articles that I've created looking for typing mistakes (that's OK, so long as they're genuine, though it's still a bit creepy). What should I do? I left a message at Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance), but I haven't had a reply yet. -- Phronima 15:23, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
You're right, but there's got to be a better way than "(1972) by Pat Conroy". How about "a 1972 book by Pat Conroy" or something of the sort? On an unrelated note, I've wikilinked Pat Conroy on the disambig page. Ral 315 WS 16:34, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you please, either on my talk page or on the RfC talk page (not the RfC article page) provide a few examples of the sort of MoS edits that you have been doing to the music articles that are constantly reverted? I am really a little unsure what the problem is, other than as to two editors on the RfC talk page who appear to be flame-trolls. Robert McClenon 19:10, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you please, either on my talk page or on the RfC talk page (not the RfC article page) provide a few examples of the sort of MoS edits that you have been doing to the music articles that are constantly reverted? I am really a little unsure what the problem is, other than as to two editors on the RfC talk page who appear to be flame-trolls. Robert McClenon 19:11, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Your edit summary said you were removing "unneccessary speculation about what editors feel". Here is the text you've revert to. I've bolded the text below that "speculates" about editors feelings:
The only thing that isn't speculation about how editors might feel about a particular RfC is the first sentence that attempts to downplay the fact that an RfC isn't required for entering arbitration, and attempt to link a connection between filing an RfC and going to arbitration. The entire remaining paragraph is nothing but how an editor may feel about the RfC in question.
The difference being that the version you deleted/reverted, my version, at least was honest about what was the opinion of an editor and what is not. FuelWagon 00:56, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm taking this one-to-one because I don't like megaphone diplomacy. I have a question related to your inside view on the RfC brought about because you engaged in protracted edit warring. You say:
I've looked at all of your edits on WP:AN, WP:ANI and WP:AN3 for September and October. I suppose I could go further back, but before I do that, I thought I'd come to you with my findings.
There was then a long gap.
Now point one: the RfC evidence shows that you had been edit warring over various issues for quite some time, and that your primary purpose in doing so was to enforce the manual of style. At no time in any of the above do I see you explaining that you were engaged in edit wars, or that enforcement of the manual was your purpose, or appealing for help in doing so.
Point two: Several times I see administrators looking at what you were doing and telling you that you were being too heavy-handed, but you reacted to these warnings in a negative way. You brushed aside suggestions of using some of the tools of the dispute resolution process: Even if I thought that an RfC would do any good, it'd take time, of which I already have too little. And yet you had had plenty of time to edit war only days before.
I may have missed something. It could be that you appealed for help in enforcing the Manual of Style some months ago but that your pleas fell on deaf ears and you felt that you had no choice but to soldier on alone. But it seems to me that have not been entirely honest in your defence. In your pleas you also misrepresented the situation by omission. An editor was "mass reverting" but you omitted to say that you were doing precisely the same thing yourself. By edit warring, you were exacerbating the situation even as you purported to be trying to calm it down.
Can you not then take some responsibility for this mess? Do you disagree with arbcom's adoption of the following principle? Edit warring is harmful to the purpose of Wikipedia and to the morale of its editors. Or do you think that the style manual is so important that it's all right to ignore that principle? -- Tony Sidaway Talk 06:31, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
One is [16] (yes, all the way back to July). I've also asked for help at project pages and other Wikipedia pages (e.g., [17]).
Aside from anything else, though, including the dubious nature of the "Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute ", I had in fact stopped reverting before the RfC.
Your comments in reply to your previous interlocutor suggest that the lack of any real attempt to resolve the issues by those bringing the RfC is something that you take seriously (as have I when I've commented on RfCs against other editors).
(By the way, if you'd really like to discuss this one-to-one, I have my e-mail address enabled.) -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 10:50, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I think the question of whether the RfC was correctly filed or not is a side issue. Since the RfC draws attention to an extremely serious problem, the function of drawing attention to that problem was fulfilled. I might wag my finger at those who filed it for not trying harder, but your statements since it was filed are actually in some ways much, much more worrying than your activities before.
You still think it's okay to edit war to enforce the manual of style.
You still haven't expressed one ounce of remorse, or recognised that you yourself contributed greatly to the problem.
Well fine. You're entitled to an opinion. Just don't try it any more. Ever.
You deny that you said the problem was "caused by failure of the community to come to help me". Well actually what I said, quoting you directly from your "inside view" on the RfC was that you said:
You did say this and this is what I say you said.
As I have shown, your requests for help were not ignored, but several times you dismissed suggestions that you adopt a softer approach and stop biting newbies. Your pleas for help on WP:AN and WP:ANI were, at least insofar as the September and October ones are concerned, dishonest, for you didn't say that you were involved in edit warring with these people. I think you knew that if you admitted this you'd have been told in no uncertain terms to stop making matters worse. -- Tony Sidaway Talk 22:26, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
For evidence, see above. To elaborate: on 1 Oct at 15:49, Mel Etitis said: BGC ( talk · contribs) is mass reverting my attempts to tidy albums-articles, calling the removal of excessive Wikilinking (multiple links to the same year in successive lines, linking to seasons and months) and the conversion of hyphens to dashes "vandalous". Again, I started by trying to explain the MoS, etc., but he's just become more and more belligerent.
What he omitted to say was that he in turn was engaging in "mass reverting". In the above, Mel Etitis cites an edit summary on M.I.U. Album. The history of that article show unequivocally that Mel Etitis was just as guilty, having just minutes before that report performed the third of three reverts in five hours on that article. Indeed, a further look at the history shows the massive extent of his engagement in edit warring. Fully nine out of his ten last edits on that article up to that point had been reverts. Mel Etitis is an edit warrior, and he enlisted help in dealing with people at precisely the same time he was making matters worse by continued engagement in a sterile edit war with them. This isn't acceptable behavior in an editor of his experience. -- Tony Sidaway Talk 23:51, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Fair enough. But he knows I'll be on his case if he resumes edit warring and biting newbies. -- Tony Sidaway Talk 23:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Your points in order.
I see that you tried to clean up the text about user conduct Requests for Comments. Unfortunately, reason will not work there. There is a long-running edit war between FuelWagon and SlimVirgin. They both have very hard feelings toward each other as a result of something else. (It reminds me of what you said about Anittas.) They got into a very heated edit war about the Terri Schiavo article in July, and have been at each other since then. FuelWagon filed a user conduct RfC against SlimVirgin, and discovered that user conduct RfCs are considered a step toward arbitration, rather than being (as their name would imply) only a request for comments. So now FuelWagon is trying to change the wording of the RfC language to clarify that it is really only a request for comments, which disregards history. SlimVirgin wants to ensure that there is a warning, so that other people do not fall into the trap that FuelWagon did, of innocently filing a user conduct RfC only to discover that it is loaded with recriminations. Unfortunately, SlimVirgin is also reverting all of FuelWagon's changes by labeling the reverts minor edits, which they are not.
I know that you are only trying to help, but it won't do any good at this point. Robert McClenon 12:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your detailed comments about the page deletion! It looks to me like one of my users probably took some text from the WikiLens site description, which is definitely not worded as an encyclopedia would do.
I believe I could write a more encyclopedia-style article. However, the one objection I can't precisely respond to is "notability." Frankly, we are still a fairly small site (100 users). On the other hand, I've encountered several articles that are what I would consider "niche" articles for a small audience that I have nevertheless found useful.
Perhaps I will try rewriting the article. I must admit, I am uncomfortable with marketing but also would find a Wikipedia entry for WikiLens satisfying and helpful. If you have any thoughts about how notable something should be before being included in Wikipedia, I'd be happy to hear it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dfrankow ( talk • contribs) 18:36, 10 October 2005
I'm sorry you've had an RfC filed about you. I've never had that happen to me, but I imagine it's not quite a pleasant walk in the park. Don't let it get to you, though: You're a good editor and, from what I've seen, a good admin. I understand where you're coming from about the popular music articles. People think they own them and they don't, then they get defensive when you try to do anything to the articles.
Here's some nice Esperanza blend coffee for you. Take a nice sip and don't stress too much. Above all else, don't get burned out and leave. We don't need any more decent editors leaving the project! Cheers, H e rmione 1980 23:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I highly and sincerely apoligize that this happened to you. However, I find it highly unlikely that they'll be any discipliary action towards you, other than a warning not to break the 3RR. Perhaps now other people will find out about this slowly brewing problem that's dragging the quality of the project down. -- FuriousFreddy 02:21, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for copyediting/working on the Buddha Loetla Nabhalai page. I have been very busy and haven't had the time to wikify as much. -- speedoflight 03:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Having read the RFC, I could could see no other appropriate response than, "job well done". After reading Freddy's comments, I felt all the more comfortable with my conclusion - after all, he and TUF-KAT are music in Wikipedia. While I respect Tony's opinion in general, I think his call here was quite wrong. Guettarda 22:31, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
"Rather than simply adding the images..."
Then take your own advice and STOP reverting it. You're only adding to the problem. BGC 21:28, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Since you participated in the old one I thought it was right to give you a heads-up (even though you didn't vote the same way I did now). There's also an ongoing edit war between Kolokol and basically anyone else who tries to edit the article - I wouldn't recommend getting into that. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 07:39, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Γεια σου, Μελ! Τι κανεις: Just a small question; How experienced do you have to be for your vote to be counted in the deletion debates? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tokle ( talk • contribs) 16:18, 14 October 2005
Mel, I never meant for my silly side list to damage yours. I really regret starting it now. I can't do much now, but I will continue to object to the merge. I *am* sorry. Mothperson cocoon 17:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I know, I know, I know. Still. Damn it. But I liked the yoghurt instructions. Mothperson cocoon 03:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Hunh. I just read the stuff above this. Having been a newbie that you bit, I am fascinated that not only did I survive, I have come to be quite fond of you. Go figure. Mothperson cocoon 03:37, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Warren Redlich - newly created article about an up and coming New York attorney and politico - appears to be a vanity article. At least, it was created by a user using a variant on the name. This is generally against Wiki practice, yes? I left the newbie (his first day) the note below. I hope that he will move the material to his talk page in the near future. But you might keep an eye out. Thanks for your attention, Mel, and your good work. I appreciate you. WBardwin 03:26, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
In the Jeb Bush item, are you sure it's appropriate to have the reference to GW Bush link to "failure"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Froomkin ( talk • contribs) 18:39, 15 October 2005
you know I'm tired of you edits. I creat pages in one style. but you take some of them and change some details your way.
But OK if it makes you happy...
Thank you very much for that. Beautifulstranger 21:35, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
The RFC against you is evidence that in recent months the level of aggressiveness of low quality editors has risen dramatically. The generally permissive atmosphere of wikipedia - combined with the substantial problems of bringing effective action - except in the case of the 3RR - is reaching a boiling point. It is easier to get someone blocked on three reverts than on lying on edit summaries, POV warring and so in.
Stirling Newberry 03:51, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Eliezer_Yudkowsky&curid=65858&diff=25638686&oldid=25595428. The one known as User:Adreaus has invoked your name in an apparently incipient style dispute. Please weigh in. -- Maru (talk) 05:30, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Fixed it myself. Thanks for poitnig it out. - R. fiend 14:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you block this user temporarily? He/she has been vandalizing the Glebe Collegiate Institute, and the Vandalism articles repeatedly, despite several warnings. bjelleklang 15:50, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
I searched, no definite source. I'd seen it on several different sites, but the url I retrieved it from was: http://www.joerod.com/archives/liljohnhighschoolpic.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by D Major ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 2 October 2005
Sorry for turning to you once again, but there's a minor dispute at the James Stewart (actor) page regarding the sourcing a non-notable book making "claims" that Stewart was a spy for the U.S. government. Not only does the claim itself sound absurd, but the book that the user who added the content (quoted below) cited sounds non-notable and obscure in itself. The author seems to not have published many other reputable books, does not have a strong Google presence, the book has only a few minor articles mostly in internet pages, and the publisher is not well known. Added to this is the fact that there are no user comments about the books on Amazon.com. I don't think the source is reputable, but not knowing the intricacies of WP policy I figured I'd ask you first before I put this up for comment. I've contacted the user who posted the "facts," but he's resorted to turning the argument against me personally, while not posing any logical (in my opinion) reason for the inclusion of the unsubstantiated information. Much of the discussion can be found at the page's talk and history (in description) pages. Volatile 17:57, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
First of all, I wanted to let you know that I've responded to your comments at vandalism talk. However, please refrain from reverting what you argue is "low-level" vandalism. Instead I urge you to follow the dispute resolution process. Also, I'd like to gently remind you that WP:3RR does not entitle you to three reverts a day. Thanks. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 19:47, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
It's not that I believe that songs should be exempt from normal naming. I know the Manual Of Style specifies principal words such as prepositions should not be capitalized in the title of works, but, I don't think it delves into the specifics of the grammar rules: "Headline style calls for all principal words to be capitalized (also called caps & lc). Unfortunately authorities differ widely on what words are principal. Langley rules for headline style capitalization are based on the G.P.O. (1984) and are as follows: Do not capitalize the articles a, an, and the; the prepositions or adverbs at, by, for, of, in, up, on, and to; and the conjunctions and, as, but, if, or, and nor. In effect, this rule means that words of four or more letters are considered principal words and are capitalized" http://www.sti.nasa.gov/publish/sp7084.pdf (page 87) I won't revert it again, or any of the other song articles for that matter. It's something to take into consideration though. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 16:56, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't agree with what you did on that article. I admit that it's far from being encyclopedia-writing-styled but i think it's better than nothing. That's why I put the WIKIFY tag. I expect to enlarge it as I collect more information. STUB tag.
So, now I'm reverting...
good luck —Preceding unsigned comment added by N0thingness ( talk • contribs) 19:17, 3 October 2005
Please stop reverting my edits without even considering them. Boa —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boa ( talk • contribs) 21:16, 3 October 2005
Hi Mel.
When you get a chance can you look at the last comments on the McDojo talk page. I know you've locked the Bullshido article, but from a catagorical perspective, it's highly inaccurate to list the term as a sub-catagory of an aspect of what it's trying to communicate. I realize that the VfDs were judged to be what they were, but I'd really like you to address this point on the discussion page if you could. -- Phrost 21:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
On the TfD listing for this template, you voted to "wait". I just wanted to let you know that all of the images tagged with this template have been deleted, so you may want to reconsider your vote. Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 00:09, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel Etitis. You are an admin, and I noticed that you are editing right now so I thought I might ask you a favor. I just noticed that there is a user that keep vandalizing Template:Sealand table by blanking it, eventhough he has been warned to stop what he's doing. I really don't know what the conflict is about, and I haven't been involved, but blanking is of course not acceptable in any case. Maybe you could take a look at it? -- Karl Meier 09:03, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
I've repeatedly encountered – in the oddest places but never chased up their perpetrator user. Now, however, I see: ... the fuss made when I was – wrongly – interpreted as using that argument .... Er, every style guide I've seen says that — is the tool for this job (and some others), while – is limited to spans ("pages 20–31") and a few other miscellaneous purposes ("Tallinn–Helsinki traffic", "Los Angeles–based", etc.). But I could be out of date: am I missing some innovation here?
If this merits a reply, please reply here rather than on my page as fragmented discussions hurt my neck. -- Hoary 15:16, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
(Herbert Rees Rules of Printed English)
The use of the em rule for almost everything except joining numbers is recent (at least on this side of the Atlantic), and (I think) the result of the decline in typesetting skills, and the need for a simplified set of rules. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 15:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunately my copy of Hart's is in a box at the botom of a pile of boxes, which is little better than being an hour's train-ride away; my memory was that it agreed with Rees, but I might well be wrong. Rees, incidentally, was an editor at Longman's, and chief editor at Bookprint. Darton, Longman & Todd is "The UK's leading independent publisher of spirituality and religion" (it says here); no, I've never heard of the, either, except for the Rees book. Sir Ernest Gowers' The Complete Plain Words (my copy's from 1964) uses en rules for parentheses (see the section on dashes, p.249) — but then he uses them for everything else too. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 13:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
I noticed that you nominated both Luxurious and Pucci Petwear for deletion on the grounds of notability. I point out that Wikipedia:Deletion policy has nothing about notability, and that an attempt to add notability as a deletion criteria failed to generate consensus. Furthermore, I point out that the deletion policy specifically states that articles that are "Such a minor branch of a subject that it doesn't deserve an article" should be merged, not deleted.
In light of this, I ask you to reconsider your practice of making nominations on these grounds - instead consider the verifiability, vanity, and dicdef policies, which I think can be used to delete about 90% of the crap that gets nominated for deletion. Snowspinner 15:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello Mel, Sorry to bother you but, I have a question for you since you started a new article on the indie film Democrazy after the original article about the film had been deleted after a vote. What is the procedure?
I had assumed after your creating a new article on the film and the ones who were so dead set against it, stopped their campaign to remove it, that if someone else starts an article up and the original reasons why something had been deleted were removed that an article on something such as Democrazy could eventually be made.
Another indie film which was originally deleted The Deserter because it was believed to be advertising was created again as The Deserter (2003) by a different user: Rms125a@hotmail.com or 70.19.29.244 and it was erased by one of the original delete voters who is now an administrator. The creator's IP address 70.19.29.244 is out of New York and it seemed obvious that it was not the same user who created it the first time.
So is this right? An article about a film or anything else that was deleted can never be written about again even if the reasons for deletion no longer apply? Anyway, I was just wondering whether you knew the answers to any of my questions. Thank you. Plank
As this is an unncessary neologism, I've reverted to "benevolent" at Hindu answers to the problem of evil; I've also left a message at Talk:Omnibenevolence. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 13:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
I realize that I should use an edit summary, but have you considered how awful it'd be to write 700+ edit summaries in the span of 24 hours on one single task? - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
You have been stalking Annittas, OmegaWikipedia, and myself. End of discussion.
Now I see your ignorance on Kelly Clarkson's music single pages continues to expand. A compromise was finally brought up (this being the "World" and "Billboard") to steer away from the previous confusion of the charts, however, you continuously revert them to your preference because that's what you want: things to be your way. This can also be shown through User:Extraordinary Machine. He wants to use his style of music single info box, and because some people are opposing, he is filing a complaint (from what I've heard, excuse me if this is inaccurate information). Six people agreed on this compromise, so I will be reverting all of Kelly Clarkson's single articles.
Oh, and please do not call these pages "pop music articles", since some of them (notably Green Day and Mariah Carey) do not play pop music. Clarkson's music is not even very "pop" anymore, as she has moved into more of a pop rock section. Winnermario 20:51, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey. Sorry to bother you again. I've noticed in the album articles, and a few others, that there you are engaged in ongoing disputes. However, it seems that these are unresolved disputes. You and the other editors seem to have been reverting each other back and forth. I know you think the dispute resolution process is fruitless, but I recommend using it or finding another solution to the problem. Reverting ad infinitum does not solve anything. Thanks. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 03:57, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your help on this, Mel. — Davenbelle 04:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
You wrote
:#{Context: I'd nominated two of the AfDs affected.) I don't want to make too much of this (though I hope he doesn't do it again), and the suggestion that he lose his adminship seems unnecessary to me (I may have missed something, but did his admin powers feature in any of this?) — but, aside from the initial mistaken behaviour, he might respond better when other editors try to discuss the issue with him. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 13:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I suppose the ability to delete the AfDs had something to do with his admin powers? Filiocht | The kettle's on 13:53, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel, I meant to delete the sentence "He was also awarded the Padma Bhushan" as 3 paragraphs before, the fact is already mentioned saying that a grateful nation awarded him the Padma Bhushan in 1968 for his efforts in fighting Naga insurgency. Hence I'd be reverting your edit which re-included the sentence. Regards, Gurubrahma 15:29, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel - haven't seen you around in a long time. How are you? Could you have a look at my comment at Talk:Creation-evolution_controversy#Theory_and_Law - I am trying to answer philosophy of science questions based on "gut feeling" as much as anything, and I may be completely wrong on the last bit. Thanks. Guettarda 17:26, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry I won't do it again; I was just curious to see if something I wrote could actually get onto the website. My apologies and I didn't know it was vandalism. Wikipedia's a great website :D
You Wrote: Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:04, 5 October 2005 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.222.139.184 ( talk • contribs) 00:56, 6 October 2005
regarding the use of 'artifact' in the Sphere (novel) article, get back to me when people who use artefact live in a country with a higher GDP than America. love, Scapermoya 07:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Im not being unpleasent, this is ridiculous. The website you cited is partially in english, so I don't understand how that is any kind of evidence. I have grown up and been educated in America and artifact is the widely accepted spelling. Let me know is there is a country that sets a better cultural precedent in the english language (hint: the UK's motto is in French). I think the fact that wikipedia's article on atrefacts redirects to artifact, not the other way around, is precedent enough to make my edit valid. Not to mention (from the article) "Artifact as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary is "anything made by human art and workmanship; an artificial product."" I am not going to play editing tennis with you. love, Scapermoya 23:36, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I have expanded the article on this song significantly and provided sources. I would be grateful if you could have a look at the rewritten version. Capitalistroadster 10:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for catching my error regarding Suleiman Pasha. I'll be more careful in the future. Perhaps there should be a note in an HTML comment that it is not the same person as in the Suleiman Pasha article, since I'm probably not the first the make this mistake. Mike Dillon 15:09, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
hello, thank you for taking time looking at the manilyn reynes page. I would be very happy if you could help me out . I am not that familiar with the whole thing yet, but very willing to learn and stuff. I really appreciate your honest comments. Hope to hear from you more. By the way, sorry about the removal of the clean up sign. pebblewash
Mel, are you knowledgable on the topic of South Asian history? Just asking because I may need your help to moderate in certain articles later in the future. Thanks as always, a.n.o.n.y.m t 23:38, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
You may want to see the RFC that has been filed against you: Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Mel_Etitis -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 05:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello, sorry for the long message.
In March 2005, there was a WP:RM request and vote (which you took part in) to move Úbeda to Ubeda, with a 6-3 result, see Talk:Ubeda#Requested_move:_.C3.9Abeda_.E2.86.92_Ubeda (or perhaps here if renamed).
However, beginning in April 2005 and lasting several months, there was a survey conducted at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English)#Proposal and straw poll regarding place names with diacritical marks, with dozens of participants voting and discussing over an extended period of time. The purpose of the survey was to try to gather feedback for what the policy should be globally. Proponents of diacritics were in the majority, and in general, use of diacritics is widespread in actual practice on Wikipedia today (particularly since the Mediawiki upgrade to Unicode).
However, for Úbeda/Ubeda, Philip Baird Shearer is stating that the WP:RM vote takes precedence over the survey results, and a new WP:RM vote would be required to move it to Úbeda. My position is that there should be a global policy rather than case-by-case voting -- that was the whole purpose of the survey. In discussion with him, I wrote:
See the discussion at Talk:Ubeda#Talk_page_discussion_on_page_move (or perhaps here if renamed).
As a possible alternative to calling a new WP:RM vote which might set a precedent for case-by-case voting across thousands of articles, I am polling all the participants of the original WP:RM vote to ask:
Note, since Philip Baird Shearer was one of the participants in that vote, he will also be receiving this message and thus will have the opportunity to respond. -- Curps 05:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
For what it's worth, and for the information of all the voters in the March requested move vote, there's now a new requested move vote at
Talk:Ubeda. --
Curps
01:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Name may be wrong ("Pakistan freedom fighters"), but fact remains, that there are many people who fought for indepedence of Pakistan. It is similar to India, where many people fought at different levels. May be some of them were not fighting with arms, but they were contributing. Evern if we delte this, there should be category which deals with people who took part in indepedence movement of Pakistan. Please suggest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spasage ( talk • contribs) 09:20, 7 October 2005
Hehe. You left that unsubstituted File:Smile fasdfdsfoiueire.gif Alphax τ ε χ 10:40, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello. Could you advise what I should do to such situation: [3]? Briefly, it was resulted from the new section that I've added for Macao. User:Huaiwei insisted it should instead be spelt "Macau". Both spellings are used by the Macanese government in English, but "Macao" is preferred, and is the spelling used in the English name printed on the passports the government issues. In my opinion, no particular preference should be given to any of the two spellings, as colour vs. color. To avoid edit warring, I put on the {{ twoversions}} tag, but Huaiwei keeps reverting back to the other version which he prefers. — Insta ntnood 14:16, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
For your information, Mel Etitis, I've never changed the displayed version to my opponents' version just because of being questioned on my motives. My policy is to display a version according to what the certain article was like before the disputes. List of railways in China is an example. — Insta ntnood 15:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
As for Macao/Macau, I've never changed existing text from Macao to Macau, or the other way round (except that both appears in the same article, that standardised is necessary). It's unavoidable to choose one of the two spellings when adding new content, like creating new articles, or adding information about Macao/Macau to articles that previously have nothing about Macao/Macau. — Insta ntnood 15:24, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
You have been blocked for 24 hours for violating the three-revert rule on Because of You (Kelly Clarkson song). Please do not unblock yourself, and if you have any questions or comments about this block, leave them on this page; I've put it on my watchlist and will try to respond to you as quickly as possible. Ral 315 WS 15:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
We've actually informally crossed paths, in a good way. You thanked me for merging Enrico Caruso recordings, and discussing the name of the Help album that was accidentally moved into the Help namespace. I couldn't find your edit about welcome messages, though perhaps it's been lost to time :)
I endorsed the summary that Phroziac and Bmicomp provided because I believe that revert wars are harmful, particularly when admins act on them. Never have I needed to use more than one revert a day, save for page blanking and other blatant vandalism. I expect all users to minimize revert wars, particularly admins (like it or not, admins do have a higher status in the Wikipedia community, and I therefore expect admins to act in a slightly more proper way than I would a normal user). I do agree that the edits you made helped the articles; however, repeatedly reverting is still reverting. Perhaps taking out an RFC on the users you had warred with would have been a better way to do so.
Finally, I want you to know that I don't have any hard feelings toward you; I respect you, and clearly the Wikipedia community respected you, as you were granted adminship, and have made numerous great edits that have improved Wikipedia. However, in this particular case, I choose to go against you- not because of some personal vendetta, or an attempt for revenge, but because I believe that the way you acted was wrong in this case. Please understand this. Best wishes... Ral 315 WS 05:17, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
On The Water is Wide, why is the page title in quotes (" ")? I thought books were in italics and songs were in quotes. -- Commander Keane 17:06, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
This newly created article is almost entirely incorrect, but should never have been created anyway, since the correct (and corretly named) Jelly baby already exists. Being relatively new around here I'm not sure of the correct procedure. -- SMeeds 22:42, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
I was too quick to report it. It has now been fixed by someone else. -- SMeeds 23:01, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Mel, I noticed you moved CCH Pounder to C.C.H. Pounder. I know it's unusual punctuation, but I did the research when I was cleaning up the article a while back ('swhy it's on my watchlist). "CCH" is her professional name, as used on her official website, her SAG registration, IMDb, the Los Angeles Times, People magazine, and more. She hasn't used "C.C.H." since the very beginning of her acting career. There should definitely be a redirect, but I think it should go the other direction. What do you think?
Thanks for keeping up the janitorial work, by the way; it's the little folks with the brooms that keep the place so shiny.... — Catherine\ talk 02:15, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mel, Willmcw started a tradition whereby whichever one of us had the RfC was sent the sunflower of sympathy and solidarity, and sadly I see it's your turn. I'm sorry you're having to put up with this, and I hope you're not letting it get to you. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:45, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Mel: Please let me start out by stating that I have no doubt that your reversion behavior is founded entirely in good faith; you think you're doing this for the good of Wikipedia. Let me also, then, add that I think your method is unacceptable. Low-speed edit wars do not help anyone. I realize that you're dealing with fractious users. I must wonder, however, if your "revert first and ask questions later if at all" approach is helping to make them more fractious and possibly even chasing them off. If so, then you are harming Wikipedia. In any case, your method is one which policy and the ArbCom both clearly disapprove of, and you really should stop it.
In addition, I must object to the following statement in your response to the RfC: "I don't know what their motivation is, but it seems clearly to be neither a sense of fairness nor a genuine concern for the quality of Wikipedia." This statement is a personal attack of two adminstrators in good standing; to accuse a fellow administrator of not having a sense of fairness, or of not having a concern for the quality of Wikipedia, is unacceptable. I strongly urge you to retract this statement as it will be used against you should this matter go before the ArbCom, which I am starting to suspect that it will (although I have urged against it).
I implore you to find a better way to deal with these issues. Persistent low-grade edit wars are not an option. Regards, Kelly Martin 07:24, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry to trouble you, but I see that you're an admin, and that you've had dealings with this User, and have suffered the sort of thing that I'm suffering. After correcting some English on an article, and adding the "copyedit" template, PM Poon made some edits and removed the "copyedit" label. The article was no better (in some respects worse), and I replaced the label, explaining my action to PM Poon. Since then he's been harassing me on my Talk page, leaving long, insulting, and hostile messages. He's also started going through the list of articles that I've created looking for typing mistakes (that's OK, so long as they're genuine, though it's still a bit creepy). What should I do? I left a message at Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance), but I haven't had a reply yet. -- Phronima 15:23, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
You're right, but there's got to be a better way than "(1972) by Pat Conroy". How about "a 1972 book by Pat Conroy" or something of the sort? On an unrelated note, I've wikilinked Pat Conroy on the disambig page. Ral 315 WS 16:34, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you please, either on my talk page or on the RfC talk page (not the RfC article page) provide a few examples of the sort of MoS edits that you have been doing to the music articles that are constantly reverted? I am really a little unsure what the problem is, other than as to two editors on the RfC talk page who appear to be flame-trolls. Robert McClenon 19:10, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you please, either on my talk page or on the RfC talk page (not the RfC article page) provide a few examples of the sort of MoS edits that you have been doing to the music articles that are constantly reverted? I am really a little unsure what the problem is, other than as to two editors on the RfC talk page who appear to be flame-trolls. Robert McClenon 19:11, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Your edit summary said you were removing "unneccessary speculation about what editors feel". Here is the text you've revert to. I've bolded the text below that "speculates" about editors feelings:
The only thing that isn't speculation about how editors might feel about a particular RfC is the first sentence that attempts to downplay the fact that an RfC isn't required for entering arbitration, and attempt to link a connection between filing an RfC and going to arbitration. The entire remaining paragraph is nothing but how an editor may feel about the RfC in question.
The difference being that the version you deleted/reverted, my version, at least was honest about what was the opinion of an editor and what is not. FuelWagon 00:56, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm taking this one-to-one because I don't like megaphone diplomacy. I have a question related to your inside view on the RfC brought about because you engaged in protracted edit warring. You say:
I've looked at all of your edits on WP:AN, WP:ANI and WP:AN3 for September and October. I suppose I could go further back, but before I do that, I thought I'd come to you with my findings.
There was then a long gap.
Now point one: the RfC evidence shows that you had been edit warring over various issues for quite some time, and that your primary purpose in doing so was to enforce the manual of style. At no time in any of the above do I see you explaining that you were engaged in edit wars, or that enforcement of the manual was your purpose, or appealing for help in doing so.
Point two: Several times I see administrators looking at what you were doing and telling you that you were being too heavy-handed, but you reacted to these warnings in a negative way. You brushed aside suggestions of using some of the tools of the dispute resolution process: Even if I thought that an RfC would do any good, it'd take time, of which I already have too little. And yet you had had plenty of time to edit war only days before.
I may have missed something. It could be that you appealed for help in enforcing the Manual of Style some months ago but that your pleas fell on deaf ears and you felt that you had no choice but to soldier on alone. But it seems to me that have not been entirely honest in your defence. In your pleas you also misrepresented the situation by omission. An editor was "mass reverting" but you omitted to say that you were doing precisely the same thing yourself. By edit warring, you were exacerbating the situation even as you purported to be trying to calm it down.
Can you not then take some responsibility for this mess? Do you disagree with arbcom's adoption of the following principle? Edit warring is harmful to the purpose of Wikipedia and to the morale of its editors. Or do you think that the style manual is so important that it's all right to ignore that principle? -- Tony Sidaway Talk 06:31, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
One is [16] (yes, all the way back to July). I've also asked for help at project pages and other Wikipedia pages (e.g., [17]).
Aside from anything else, though, including the dubious nature of the "Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute ", I had in fact stopped reverting before the RfC.
Your comments in reply to your previous interlocutor suggest that the lack of any real attempt to resolve the issues by those bringing the RfC is something that you take seriously (as have I when I've commented on RfCs against other editors).
(By the way, if you'd really like to discuss this one-to-one, I have my e-mail address enabled.) -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 10:50, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I think the question of whether the RfC was correctly filed or not is a side issue. Since the RfC draws attention to an extremely serious problem, the function of drawing attention to that problem was fulfilled. I might wag my finger at those who filed it for not trying harder, but your statements since it was filed are actually in some ways much, much more worrying than your activities before.
You still think it's okay to edit war to enforce the manual of style.
You still haven't expressed one ounce of remorse, or recognised that you yourself contributed greatly to the problem.
Well fine. You're entitled to an opinion. Just don't try it any more. Ever.
You deny that you said the problem was "caused by failure of the community to come to help me". Well actually what I said, quoting you directly from your "inside view" on the RfC was that you said:
You did say this and this is what I say you said.
As I have shown, your requests for help were not ignored, but several times you dismissed suggestions that you adopt a softer approach and stop biting newbies. Your pleas for help on WP:AN and WP:ANI were, at least insofar as the September and October ones are concerned, dishonest, for you didn't say that you were involved in edit warring with these people. I think you knew that if you admitted this you'd have been told in no uncertain terms to stop making matters worse. -- Tony Sidaway Talk 22:26, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
For evidence, see above. To elaborate: on 1 Oct at 15:49, Mel Etitis said: BGC ( talk · contribs) is mass reverting my attempts to tidy albums-articles, calling the removal of excessive Wikilinking (multiple links to the same year in successive lines, linking to seasons and months) and the conversion of hyphens to dashes "vandalous". Again, I started by trying to explain the MoS, etc., but he's just become more and more belligerent.
What he omitted to say was that he in turn was engaging in "mass reverting". In the above, Mel Etitis cites an edit summary on M.I.U. Album. The history of that article show unequivocally that Mel Etitis was just as guilty, having just minutes before that report performed the third of three reverts in five hours on that article. Indeed, a further look at the history shows the massive extent of his engagement in edit warring. Fully nine out of his ten last edits on that article up to that point had been reverts. Mel Etitis is an edit warrior, and he enlisted help in dealing with people at precisely the same time he was making matters worse by continued engagement in a sterile edit war with them. This isn't acceptable behavior in an editor of his experience. -- Tony Sidaway Talk 23:51, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Fair enough. But he knows I'll be on his case if he resumes edit warring and biting newbies. -- Tony Sidaway Talk 23:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Your points in order.
I see that you tried to clean up the text about user conduct Requests for Comments. Unfortunately, reason will not work there. There is a long-running edit war between FuelWagon and SlimVirgin. They both have very hard feelings toward each other as a result of something else. (It reminds me of what you said about Anittas.) They got into a very heated edit war about the Terri Schiavo article in July, and have been at each other since then. FuelWagon filed a user conduct RfC against SlimVirgin, and discovered that user conduct RfCs are considered a step toward arbitration, rather than being (as their name would imply) only a request for comments. So now FuelWagon is trying to change the wording of the RfC language to clarify that it is really only a request for comments, which disregards history. SlimVirgin wants to ensure that there is a warning, so that other people do not fall into the trap that FuelWagon did, of innocently filing a user conduct RfC only to discover that it is loaded with recriminations. Unfortunately, SlimVirgin is also reverting all of FuelWagon's changes by labeling the reverts minor edits, which they are not.
I know that you are only trying to help, but it won't do any good at this point. Robert McClenon 12:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your detailed comments about the page deletion! It looks to me like one of my users probably took some text from the WikiLens site description, which is definitely not worded as an encyclopedia would do.
I believe I could write a more encyclopedia-style article. However, the one objection I can't precisely respond to is "notability." Frankly, we are still a fairly small site (100 users). On the other hand, I've encountered several articles that are what I would consider "niche" articles for a small audience that I have nevertheless found useful.
Perhaps I will try rewriting the article. I must admit, I am uncomfortable with marketing but also would find a Wikipedia entry for WikiLens satisfying and helpful. If you have any thoughts about how notable something should be before being included in Wikipedia, I'd be happy to hear it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dfrankow ( talk • contribs) 18:36, 10 October 2005
I'm sorry you've had an RfC filed about you. I've never had that happen to me, but I imagine it's not quite a pleasant walk in the park. Don't let it get to you, though: You're a good editor and, from what I've seen, a good admin. I understand where you're coming from about the popular music articles. People think they own them and they don't, then they get defensive when you try to do anything to the articles.
Here's some nice Esperanza blend coffee for you. Take a nice sip and don't stress too much. Above all else, don't get burned out and leave. We don't need any more decent editors leaving the project! Cheers, H e rmione 1980 23:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I highly and sincerely apoligize that this happened to you. However, I find it highly unlikely that they'll be any discipliary action towards you, other than a warning not to break the 3RR. Perhaps now other people will find out about this slowly brewing problem that's dragging the quality of the project down. -- FuriousFreddy 02:21, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for copyediting/working on the Buddha Loetla Nabhalai page. I have been very busy and haven't had the time to wikify as much. -- speedoflight 03:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Having read the RFC, I could could see no other appropriate response than, "job well done". After reading Freddy's comments, I felt all the more comfortable with my conclusion - after all, he and TUF-KAT are music in Wikipedia. While I respect Tony's opinion in general, I think his call here was quite wrong. Guettarda 22:31, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
"Rather than simply adding the images..."
Then take your own advice and STOP reverting it. You're only adding to the problem. BGC 21:28, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Since you participated in the old one I thought it was right to give you a heads-up (even though you didn't vote the same way I did now). There's also an ongoing edit war between Kolokol and basically anyone else who tries to edit the article - I wouldn't recommend getting into that. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 07:39, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Γεια σου, Μελ! Τι κανεις: Just a small question; How experienced do you have to be for your vote to be counted in the deletion debates? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tokle ( talk • contribs) 16:18, 14 October 2005
Mel, I never meant for my silly side list to damage yours. I really regret starting it now. I can't do much now, but I will continue to object to the merge. I *am* sorry. Mothperson cocoon 17:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I know, I know, I know. Still. Damn it. But I liked the yoghurt instructions. Mothperson cocoon 03:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Hunh. I just read the stuff above this. Having been a newbie that you bit, I am fascinated that not only did I survive, I have come to be quite fond of you. Go figure. Mothperson cocoon 03:37, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Warren Redlich - newly created article about an up and coming New York attorney and politico - appears to be a vanity article. At least, it was created by a user using a variant on the name. This is generally against Wiki practice, yes? I left the newbie (his first day) the note below. I hope that he will move the material to his talk page in the near future. But you might keep an eye out. Thanks for your attention, Mel, and your good work. I appreciate you. WBardwin 03:26, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
In the Jeb Bush item, are you sure it's appropriate to have the reference to GW Bush link to "failure"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Froomkin ( talk • contribs) 18:39, 15 October 2005
you know I'm tired of you edits. I creat pages in one style. but you take some of them and change some details your way.
But OK if it makes you happy...
Thank you very much for that. Beautifulstranger 21:35, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
The RFC against you is evidence that in recent months the level of aggressiveness of low quality editors has risen dramatically. The generally permissive atmosphere of wikipedia - combined with the substantial problems of bringing effective action - except in the case of the 3RR - is reaching a boiling point. It is easier to get someone blocked on three reverts than on lying on edit summaries, POV warring and so in.
Stirling Newberry 03:51, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Eliezer_Yudkowsky&curid=65858&diff=25638686&oldid=25595428. The one known as User:Adreaus has invoked your name in an apparently incipient style dispute. Please weigh in. -- Maru (talk) 05:30, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Fixed it myself. Thanks for poitnig it out. - R. fiend 14:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you block this user temporarily? He/she has been vandalizing the Glebe Collegiate Institute, and the Vandalism articles repeatedly, despite several warnings. bjelleklang 15:50, 16 October 2005 (UTC)