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You have mail. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 01:46, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
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Hello! I am a big fan of everything you write about copyright! I have a question about some stuff you did on Commons and posted about you on Meta. See meta:Talk:Wikimedia_Thematic_Organizations#Is_it_correct_that_this_is_a_community_logo.3F. Thanks for your attention! I hope that someday I can hear you speak in person. Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC) |
I have become peripherally involved with a problem in an article Great Walstead School where an unpleasant yet verifiable and cited item of history has been removed a couple of times by an IP editor that appears to be a member of the school's staff (reverted twice, once by me, once by another editor, both of us considering the removal simple vandalism). That IP editor has suggested an email correspondence with the school's head teacher here, where I intervened to suggest that you might be the person to talk to. I don't believe that individual Wikipedia editors should become involved in email discussions with potentially aggrieved parties, and am not sure what action should be taken and by whom.
They read this and asked the very reasonable question about how to contact you here, where I have answered to the best of my ability, explaining as best I am able the position Wikipedia takes with verifiable items in articles. I wanted to let you know in advance that this is heading your way on the basis that, if you are not the correct person then you will know who is. Fiddle Faddle ( talk) 18:37, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Maggie, I'm asking Milhist what they'd like to do in the way of an IEG. I can't tell from reading meta:Grants:IEG what the day-to-day "command structure" is likely to be, who we'll be reporting to. I'd much prefer to be reporting to someone I know. Would you be interested in playing a role? My proposal is at WT:MHC#IEGs. - Dank ( push to talk) 20:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Any chance you could take a look at Ticket:2013013010014698? I'm drawing a blank for how to proceed on this Quality ticket. VernoWhitney ( talk) 18:56, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Not to clutter up your talk page, please glance at User:JohnCD/Amspam. That's a list of the spammers I found among the 70-odd entries in CAT:CSD this morning. That's only the ones I dealt with - RHaworth and other admins were working there, too. This is an entirely typical morning.
Two thoughts occur to me. The less important is: 9 out of 12 is a very high proportion of Indian companies, and that also is entirely typical. I'm sure that is partly because there are a lot of Indians, they speak English, and there are probably a lower proportion of admins to users so, their time being ahead of UK, they spam away while I sleep and when I have had my breakfast, and the indefatigable Mean as Custard has tagged them, there they all are. But it did occur to me to wonder if someone is doing an unselective outreach drive in India, just saying "Come and edit Wikipedia, it's easy and free!" If so, could they be asked to add "... but it's NOT for advertising or promoting your company!" There is also a very high proportion of Indians among the new users whose only purpose is to post a Facebook-style mini-autobiography, perhaps for the same reason.
More importantly: this is a serious waste of everybody's time. Those spammers cannot be blamed for treating Wikipedia as a free advertising platform - nobody has told them it isn't. (And it is genuine spam, by the way: "We offer luxury services blended with use of the best surgical disposable and medical materials" "a hassle free and satisfactory experience to clients" "complete customer satisfaction" "Our years of experience and experty in this domain will help you" etc.)
A large number of the unretained new users people worry about were never here to contribute to the encyclopedia, they didn't know it was an encyclopedia, they thought it was another LinkedIn or Myspace, a place to write about themselves, their companies, their garage bands, their self-published books...
Last year I proposed at VPR that at sign-on time prospective users should be told "This is a project to build an encyclopedia. If you would like to help with that, you are very welcome, but if you looking for somewhere to write about yourself, your friends, your band, etc, this is probably not the site for you." The discussion is here. I had half expected that the idea of putting any impediment in the way of new users would be instantly rejected, like ACTRIAL, but both Okeyes (further up the page) and Jorm seemed willing at least to contemplate it.
The idea didn't encounter opposition, but not much interest either, and the discussion petered out, as these things do; but I would like to return to the charge. My main reason for writing this is to ask your advice on how best to go about proposing it. Both the WMF and the en:wp community need persuading, and I'm not sure in which order to proceed. Also, I don't want to waste time butting my head against a brick wall if there is no chance; but after three years as an admin and 50,000 page deletions, many of which are of this entirely-unnecessary never-had-a-chance type, I am beginning to feel burnout approaching when I look at CAT:CSD in the morning and see again the familiar dozen or so "User:Supersoftechindia" type entries.
I have thought of one additional argument: weeding out the spammers and myspacers at sign-on-time would directly improve editor retention only in proportional terms: the ratio retained/starters would go up because starters would be fewer; but I believe it would have an important and beneficial indirect effect by reducing the pressure on New Page Patrollers and admins. When dealing with a flood of no-hope articles from people who have not understood what WP is for, it is all too easy to slip into a defensive mode where the important task seems to be to man the barricades and keep the rubbish out, and that is why the genuine newbie so often encounters a hostile reception. If we discouraged the Myspacers and the spammers from trying to contribute, there would be more time, and a less defensive environment, to welcome the genuine newbies.
Sorry, I did not intend to write so TL;DR a screed. No urgency for reply. Regards, JohnCD ( talk) 22:54, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Anyone can edit, including you, but please avoid writing about yourself, your company, or anything you are closely related to. For more explanation, including how to request such articles, click here (1)
Click here (2) to create an account.
Welcome to Wikipedia, where we want to hear about almost anything except you. Click here (2) to create an account.
No, sorry, that won't do the job. The problem is more serious than that. I'm all for keeping the message simple, but that wouldn't stop people who want to tell the world about their companies, their bands, their worthy causes. I think the focus of the message should not be not what the new user should/shouldn't do, so much as explaining what Wikipedia is and what it isn't. If they start merrily off writing their unsuitable article, they are going to get half a page or so of explanation to read when they ask why it was deleted; better for everyone if they read the half- page first, and don't start.
There is one set of explanations I have to give so often that I have written User:JohnCD/Not a noticeboard. That's one approach, but too long; another would be:
Wikipedia is a project to build an encyclopedia.
Everyone is welcome to help with the project. You are welcome to edit Wikipedia, but that does not mean you can put in anything you like.
In order to be a useful encyclopedia, there are a lot of things that Wikipedia is not:
- It is not a place to tell the world about yourself - see WP:AUTO
- It is not a place to tell the world about your company, your band, or your worthy cause - see WP:COI
- It is not for any kind of advertising or promotion - see WP:SOAP
- It is not a place to copy material into - see WP:Copy-paste
If you try to do any of these things, your contribution will probably be deleted.
You will save yourself time and wasted effort if, before you start, you read WP:Your first article
.
We would probably need simplified versions of AUTO, COI YFA etc. The no-copying message is important: a high proportion of that thousand-submission AfC backlog will be copies of websites, and so are many of the company-spam articles. One source of deep confusion is the fact that on Myspace, say, one's user page is where one puts the promotional fluff, and so many newbies think the thing to do here is set up an account in the name of their organization and copy its website to the user page.
Thanks for your quick reply: I understand that the way forward is to work out a proposal and start an RfC, involving the WMF at the same time. I'll start a draft on a sub-page somewhere and invite people to comment so as to get something with reasonable support before starting the actual RfC. But I do think the message has got to be fairly blunt. It will go against everyone's deepest instincts, but the message we really need to transmit is: this is an encyclopedia, and only an encyclopedia, and if what you want is something else, GO AWAY!!!
I shall be away till Tuesday; then I will set something up and point you to where it is. Regards, JohnCD ( talk) 23:37, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello again! We have some neat updates about the Teahouse:
Thanks again! Ocaasi 02:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
It was just brought to the communities attention at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#a heads-up -- webcitation.org may go dark that WebCite is about to die. That is not good, since many reference links in Wikipedia articles only exist there, since the original has vanished. That is also the problem I tried to address here. Wikipedia articles are only as good as the sources supporting them. Would it be possible for the Wikimedia Foundation to get in contact with them regarding a possible takeover by the Wikimedia Foundation? It would be very interesting to hear whether they would be willing to be acquired by the WMF. Could I also propose this at the page you pointed me to? Or could you maybe propose this to the Wikimedia Foundation?
If possible, these are some questions I think would need to be answered:
The loss of WebCite would mean that the article citations that have been archived there would be lost and many citation links at Wikipedia be dead. Also, the reason why I asked about starting new Wikimedia projects here was exactly because I wanted to investigate whether the WMF could start its own archiving project. A takeover of WebCite could give Wikipedia access to WebCites already existing database of cached websites. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 19:18, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Not sure if you had seen this, but if it succeeds the MFD it might be of ongoing interest to you: Wikipedia:WMFN Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 17:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
And I've been told to that I should ask for your input. Would you mind replying at the noticeboard? Thanks so much. Biosthmors ( talk) 03:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello again, Maggie/MRG:
At a recent RFA (in which you participated as a Wikipedia editor, rather than in your role with the foundation), another representative of the foundation, writing in that capacity, stated that the RFA was a "hijacking". [2] The nominator has expressed a concern about this on the talk page of the WMF representative, as have I. [3] I have specifically asked if that accusation is the position of the Foundation.
RFA may be somewhat of a free-fire zone, but I think I higher standard of discourse is to be expected of WMF representatives.
Best regards, Kablammo ( talk) 18:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie; in relation to this thread, and a query that I left on Okeyes, please see this thread. What wording would satisfy the legal team? -- Redrose64 ( talk) 16:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
It's been a full year since the Teahouse opened, and as we're reflecting on what's been accomplished, we wanted to celebrate with you.
Teahouse guests and hosts are sharing their stories in a new blog post about the project.
1 year statistics for Teahouse visitors compared to invited non-visitors from the pilot:
Metric | Control group | Teahouse group | Contrast |
---|---|---|---|
Average retention (weeks with at least 1 edit) | 5.02 weeks | 8.57 weeks | 1.7x retention |
Average number of articles edited | 58.7 articles | 116.9 edits | 2.0x articles edited |
Average talk page edits | 36.5 edits | 85.6 edits | 2.4x talk page edits |
Average article space edits | 129.6 edits | 360.4 edits | 2.8x article edits |
Average total edits (all namespaces) | 182.1 edits | 532.4 edits | 2.9x total edits |
Over the past year almost 2000 questions have been asked and answered, 669 editors have introduced themselves, 1670 guests have been served, 867 experienced Wikipedians have participated in the project, and 137 have served as hosts. Read more project analysis in our CSCW 2013 paper
Last month January was our most active month so far! 78 profiles were created, 46 active hosts answered 263 questions, and 11 new hosts joined the project.
Come by the Teahouse to share a cup of tea and enjoy a Birthday Cupcake! Happy Birthday to the Teahouse and thank you for a year's worth of interest and support :-)
Hi, Maggie. I haven't ventured into copyright violations much lately but Ironholds suggested that I contact you about a situation I was recently alerted to via WP:COIN.
At the end of last year, GibraltarpediaA held a competition in which editors were awarded points for creating articles and more points for having them obtain GA/FA status (along with a few other ways to earn points). At the end of the competition, the winner was awarded with a trip to Gibralter, for free, from anywhere in Europe. There have been some questions about who sponsored the competition and apparently the government of Gibralter may have played some role in the sponsorship and expected favorable coverage in return. Here is a list of the articles affected by the competition (I'd say there's close to 700-1000). The list of participants and points earned by each shows that Bill william compton earned the most points but a winner was never announced, as far as I can tell. Later, Prioryman stated that he was the winner but he's never listed in the list of participants. I still can't find an announcement regarding who won but the discrepency may in part be due to Bill william compton having used copyrighted material in several articles and subsequently having his autopatroller status revoked.
Outside of the COI and WP:GAME issues, I'm concerned that such competitions might get WP or the WMF into some legal trouble. I'm not an attorney but I've participated in some very large competitions with a small group of participants and I was surprised at how complicated the whole process is. For instance, publishing the rules and regulations (publishing them on WP where they can be changed by anyone may be an issue), clearly publishing a winner, and not backing out of those rules to name a winner are legally required. I've also seen issues regarding a monetary award that's the equivalent to the prize given but that's besides the point.
My concern is that the WMF may have unwittingly hosted an entire competition on its servers and while I don't know how laws in Europe regarding holding such a competition relate to those in the US, the competition may not have completely followed the law. I'm also not sure that laws in any part of Europe would apply if the servers hosting the competition and the WMF are in the US. I have seen nothing that suggests that the WMF has condoned the competition and while a discussion was had at AN, I see no indication that the WMF was even aware of the competition, let alone condoned it. I may be completely wrong here but I'd hate to see the WMF get into legal trouble because a group of editors didn't understand what they were doing when they held a competition.
Before I start digging into the COI/GAME issues, I wanted to make sure that the WMF was aware of the situation and see what the foundation's stance is on hosting such competitions. Any thoughts? OlYeller21 Talktome 21:12, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie, I wanted to point your attention to two related discussions:
They involve what happens when a COI editor or representative is led to a talk page and advised to engage there. Since this sometimes happens through OTRS with sensitive or controversial subjects, I was curious if you had any thoughts to relay about how best to make it abundantly clear that COI editors even when assisted through OTRS get no special privileges and other editors have no particular obligations to do what is requested or suggested. I'm trying to clarify guidance on this, starting in my userspace: User:Ocaasi/COIreview. Since it involves OTRS volunteers and their role and status I thought you might want to review it. I've also emailed the OTRS list to ask a similar question about clarifying our position in these situations. Cheers, and I hope you're doing awesomely as usual, Ocaasi t | c 22:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Patriot1010 ( talk) 15:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
This will be one of those rare cases where extra oversight will be required. Patriot1010 ( talk) 16:13, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Just spotted your message, that material was originally posted by a different IP e.g.
Difference between revisions -Revision as of 11:27, 11 June 2009 - 87.194.84.46
I did revert some vandalism to the content in 2010, but haven't touched the page since, so not the source of the 2013 content your DMCA takedown request refers to:
Difference between revisions - Revision as of 16:00, 27 March 2010\
83.104.51.74 ( talk) 13:09, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi there,
I proposed a change at Wikipedia talk:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License#Date formats. The change seemed minor, as it merely involves reformatting dates for consistency and clarity, but I have been advised to seek permission from a WMF representative, such as yourself. Please see the comments there which will hopefully be self-explanatory.
Many thanks! — sroc ( talk) 12:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi again. Some of us are curious about FOP and country of origin. If a statue is created by an American in the USA and first published/unveiled in the USA and then copies are created and moved to an FOP country like the UK, do photographs taken in the UK violate USA copyright if the images are uploaded to commons servers? Basically can we upload images of the Academy Award Oscar statues that are on display in UK, Germany, and Netherlands? If so, should we should delete the fair use image we have now on en:wp and replace it?-- Canoe1967 ( talk) 14:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Sometimes things get out of hand here. We have a new user whose inexperienced behaviour has mightily pissed off the great and good(!) here, but whose intent seems only to be the improvement of WIkipedia. Now, to be fair, he has been abrasive. Equally he has been treated as if he is a halfwit. The outcome is here, and there is a potentially good conversation on my own talk page. I'm hoping you may have oil to pour on troubled waters. He appears to be a substantial academic subject expert having problems in a weird and unfamiliar pond. Such editors wpuld be a loss to WIkipedia, and losing them is a poor comment on Wikipedia in the wider community. Fiddle Faddle 13:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
[5]. Regards, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 11:14, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
– Philosopher Let us reason together. 20:06, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I have left a proposal for a short message to placed on everyone's watchlist next week here. Seeing that you comment on the most recent proposal I thought it would be a good idea let you know about my request. Thanks!-- Dom497 ( talk) 00:04, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi again. Did the WMF decide if we could host an image from one of the four FOP countries in List of Academy Award trophies on public display? If so we should probably delete File:Oscar statuette.jpg because it is possible to host a free licence image.-- Canoe1967 ( talk) 22:52, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie, I've been watching your valiant and always nice replies on the feedback page and just wanted to drop you a note. I meant to stop by last night, but didn't get to it. I'm sorry to see you working today and hope you can catch a break soon. Anyway, you're doing a great job. And happy 4th (if you live where we celebrate it!). formerly Truthkeeper, now Victoria ( talk) 12:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie. Thanks for your reply in the Visual Editor article. I am composing this message live from my Chrome browser. I have to this point used my sandbox and wiped the same comment but have seen nothing different within the "edit source" option. Everything as it was yesterday! Are you able to provide more information here? The Big Hoof! ( talk) 13:10, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
PS. I have read your comments under your other account name which means that you'll probably post a reply here so that is fine, I shall keep this on watch and there will be no need to comment at my talk page. Thanks. The Big Hoof! ( talk) 13:10, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
to learn that the editor I've known (under your "lunar ID") as the "attribution and copyright gal" is actually a WMF employee! You have your hands full with this VE release, but I'm confident you're up to the task. Seems this version is like Windows Vista or 8 (too much change for users to digest), and it won't gain more widespread acceptance until the next, more incremental, Windows 7 or 8.1-type release comes out. But stick with it.... Happy 4th, Wbm1058 ( talk) 13:40, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar |
For YOU Mike Coppolano ( talk) 14:30, 4 July 2013 (UTC) |
Hi. I'm traveling, so my ability to respond is going to be low. I'm really sorry to see you so distressed, PumpkinSky. We've certainly worked together many a time, and I don't want you to be unhappy. :( That said, I would be really careful about being spooked too much by the slides. They were used to accompany Jorm's Wikimania presentation. Jorm is a pretty awesome speaker, and he doesn't use slides to be redundant to his speech, but to pique interest and capture attention. Unlike with some speakers (where you could pretty much be deaf and just read the thing), you can't intuit Jorm's message from his slides alone. :) In context, I have no doubt that he thoroughly explained "More Kirk, less Spock", and I bet if I had more bandwidth where I am I could find you the video of that speech somewhere so you could hear the whole thing. :)
But Quiddity's notes are important here - what I'd focus on is the concepts here. Conceptually, I find Flow pretty exciting. "Ability to stop watching individual conversations" - that's a clear win for me. One of the reasons I have come to like the red box is because I know people can call me if they need me. But it's not a failsafe, and I have come upon many an old thread (especially copyright related) where somebody has asked me a question I overlooked. That not happening is a good thing for me. :) I have become increasingly disenchanted with my own "keep all threads in one space" convention - when I was able to volunteer 24/7 that was easy and felt like a no-brainer to me (even though I knew some people preferred otherwise). Now that I may be unable to edit as a volunteer for several days in a row, I'm missing stuff. And I wonder how many people have wanted to talk to me over the years who have missed stuff, too, due to my preference for replying on my own talk page. :(
I understand that you don't like all the splashy bits like the icons. I don't know if I'll opt for that myself or not - I'm disconcerted by seeing my face everywhere, so my Google icon is a public domain magpie. And then I feel really strange that my icon is a bird. In other words, I can't win there. :D But people like to customize their appearance, no matter the medium. For instance, you've done appropriately interesting things with the coloring of your signature, enhancing your name...but it doesn't distract people from your message. It's ultimately just assimilated quickly into a thought that goes something like "Oh, it's him. :)" I suspect any avatar usage will be as well. (I also wouldn't be surprised if somebody somewhere makes some gadget to hide them, but I don't know if that will happen or not. Refer back to the bit where I can't figure out how to send emails from my cellphone. :))
I hope that when this is unveiled, you will be pleasantly surprised.
And I'm happy to continue discussing it with you, although I may have some difficulty over the weekend. But instead of the slides, though, which are not easily understood out of context, let's talk about Wikipedia:Flow. -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 11:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
PumpkinSky, I really do understand your concern. If I were forced to use VE and VE only in editing, I wouldn't be a happy camper at the moment - but FLOW and VE are very different products and have very different development paths accordingly. VE needs the development path its on for the reasons I explained above; the complexity of article editing is huge, and the diversity in approaches to it is likewise. I would be really happy if it had fewer bugs (and am sure the developers feel the same), but it's being rapidly improved and (particularly important) tailored to the needs of the community as they try it and say, "It would be better if it worked like this...."
In terms of FLOW, I'm not sure if you realize how hostile your initial approach here was. I know you're a reasonable guy, and I assume that you're in the first flush of finding out about it and being worried about what it might do. I would really hope you'll take time to think it through and try to be open-minded about it. Jorm has answered some of your concerns above - he's also a reasonable guy. :) And he is both competent and passionate about Wikipedia. :D
All the other stuff - yes, the community plays a big roll in steering the Wikimedia Foundation. If you're interested in hearing more about some of the backlot infrastructure, please let me know. I've learned a lot since first becoming community liaison. Of course, a lot of these conversations take place on Meta, which is where cross-project business is intended to be discussed. It would be much easier if we had some means of watching conversations across wikis. -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 23:38, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
You have mail. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 01:46, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
|
Hello! I am a big fan of everything you write about copyright! I have a question about some stuff you did on Commons and posted about you on Meta. See meta:Talk:Wikimedia_Thematic_Organizations#Is_it_correct_that_this_is_a_community_logo.3F. Thanks for your attention! I hope that someday I can hear you speak in person. Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC) |
I have become peripherally involved with a problem in an article Great Walstead School where an unpleasant yet verifiable and cited item of history has been removed a couple of times by an IP editor that appears to be a member of the school's staff (reverted twice, once by me, once by another editor, both of us considering the removal simple vandalism). That IP editor has suggested an email correspondence with the school's head teacher here, where I intervened to suggest that you might be the person to talk to. I don't believe that individual Wikipedia editors should become involved in email discussions with potentially aggrieved parties, and am not sure what action should be taken and by whom.
They read this and asked the very reasonable question about how to contact you here, where I have answered to the best of my ability, explaining as best I am able the position Wikipedia takes with verifiable items in articles. I wanted to let you know in advance that this is heading your way on the basis that, if you are not the correct person then you will know who is. Fiddle Faddle ( talk) 18:37, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Maggie, I'm asking Milhist what they'd like to do in the way of an IEG. I can't tell from reading meta:Grants:IEG what the day-to-day "command structure" is likely to be, who we'll be reporting to. I'd much prefer to be reporting to someone I know. Would you be interested in playing a role? My proposal is at WT:MHC#IEGs. - Dank ( push to talk) 20:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Any chance you could take a look at Ticket:2013013010014698? I'm drawing a blank for how to proceed on this Quality ticket. VernoWhitney ( talk) 18:56, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Not to clutter up your talk page, please glance at User:JohnCD/Amspam. That's a list of the spammers I found among the 70-odd entries in CAT:CSD this morning. That's only the ones I dealt with - RHaworth and other admins were working there, too. This is an entirely typical morning.
Two thoughts occur to me. The less important is: 9 out of 12 is a very high proportion of Indian companies, and that also is entirely typical. I'm sure that is partly because there are a lot of Indians, they speak English, and there are probably a lower proportion of admins to users so, their time being ahead of UK, they spam away while I sleep and when I have had my breakfast, and the indefatigable Mean as Custard has tagged them, there they all are. But it did occur to me to wonder if someone is doing an unselective outreach drive in India, just saying "Come and edit Wikipedia, it's easy and free!" If so, could they be asked to add "... but it's NOT for advertising or promoting your company!" There is also a very high proportion of Indians among the new users whose only purpose is to post a Facebook-style mini-autobiography, perhaps for the same reason.
More importantly: this is a serious waste of everybody's time. Those spammers cannot be blamed for treating Wikipedia as a free advertising platform - nobody has told them it isn't. (And it is genuine spam, by the way: "We offer luxury services blended with use of the best surgical disposable and medical materials" "a hassle free and satisfactory experience to clients" "complete customer satisfaction" "Our years of experience and experty in this domain will help you" etc.)
A large number of the unretained new users people worry about were never here to contribute to the encyclopedia, they didn't know it was an encyclopedia, they thought it was another LinkedIn or Myspace, a place to write about themselves, their companies, their garage bands, their self-published books...
Last year I proposed at VPR that at sign-on time prospective users should be told "This is a project to build an encyclopedia. If you would like to help with that, you are very welcome, but if you looking for somewhere to write about yourself, your friends, your band, etc, this is probably not the site for you." The discussion is here. I had half expected that the idea of putting any impediment in the way of new users would be instantly rejected, like ACTRIAL, but both Okeyes (further up the page) and Jorm seemed willing at least to contemplate it.
The idea didn't encounter opposition, but not much interest either, and the discussion petered out, as these things do; but I would like to return to the charge. My main reason for writing this is to ask your advice on how best to go about proposing it. Both the WMF and the en:wp community need persuading, and I'm not sure in which order to proceed. Also, I don't want to waste time butting my head against a brick wall if there is no chance; but after three years as an admin and 50,000 page deletions, many of which are of this entirely-unnecessary never-had-a-chance type, I am beginning to feel burnout approaching when I look at CAT:CSD in the morning and see again the familiar dozen or so "User:Supersoftechindia" type entries.
I have thought of one additional argument: weeding out the spammers and myspacers at sign-on-time would directly improve editor retention only in proportional terms: the ratio retained/starters would go up because starters would be fewer; but I believe it would have an important and beneficial indirect effect by reducing the pressure on New Page Patrollers and admins. When dealing with a flood of no-hope articles from people who have not understood what WP is for, it is all too easy to slip into a defensive mode where the important task seems to be to man the barricades and keep the rubbish out, and that is why the genuine newbie so often encounters a hostile reception. If we discouraged the Myspacers and the spammers from trying to contribute, there would be more time, and a less defensive environment, to welcome the genuine newbies.
Sorry, I did not intend to write so TL;DR a screed. No urgency for reply. Regards, JohnCD ( talk) 22:54, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Anyone can edit, including you, but please avoid writing about yourself, your company, or anything you are closely related to. For more explanation, including how to request such articles, click here (1)
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No, sorry, that won't do the job. The problem is more serious than that. I'm all for keeping the message simple, but that wouldn't stop people who want to tell the world about their companies, their bands, their worthy causes. I think the focus of the message should not be not what the new user should/shouldn't do, so much as explaining what Wikipedia is and what it isn't. If they start merrily off writing their unsuitable article, they are going to get half a page or so of explanation to read when they ask why it was deleted; better for everyone if they read the half- page first, and don't start.
There is one set of explanations I have to give so often that I have written User:JohnCD/Not a noticeboard. That's one approach, but too long; another would be:
Wikipedia is a project to build an encyclopedia.
Everyone is welcome to help with the project. You are welcome to edit Wikipedia, but that does not mean you can put in anything you like.
In order to be a useful encyclopedia, there are a lot of things that Wikipedia is not:
- It is not a place to tell the world about yourself - see WP:AUTO
- It is not a place to tell the world about your company, your band, or your worthy cause - see WP:COI
- It is not for any kind of advertising or promotion - see WP:SOAP
- It is not a place to copy material into - see WP:Copy-paste
If you try to do any of these things, your contribution will probably be deleted.
You will save yourself time and wasted effort if, before you start, you read WP:Your first article
.
We would probably need simplified versions of AUTO, COI YFA etc. The no-copying message is important: a high proportion of that thousand-submission AfC backlog will be copies of websites, and so are many of the company-spam articles. One source of deep confusion is the fact that on Myspace, say, one's user page is where one puts the promotional fluff, and so many newbies think the thing to do here is set up an account in the name of their organization and copy its website to the user page.
Thanks for your quick reply: I understand that the way forward is to work out a proposal and start an RfC, involving the WMF at the same time. I'll start a draft on a sub-page somewhere and invite people to comment so as to get something with reasonable support before starting the actual RfC. But I do think the message has got to be fairly blunt. It will go against everyone's deepest instincts, but the message we really need to transmit is: this is an encyclopedia, and only an encyclopedia, and if what you want is something else, GO AWAY!!!
I shall be away till Tuesday; then I will set something up and point you to where it is. Regards, JohnCD ( talk) 23:37, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello again! We have some neat updates about the Teahouse:
Thanks again! Ocaasi 02:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
It was just brought to the communities attention at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#a heads-up -- webcitation.org may go dark that WebCite is about to die. That is not good, since many reference links in Wikipedia articles only exist there, since the original has vanished. That is also the problem I tried to address here. Wikipedia articles are only as good as the sources supporting them. Would it be possible for the Wikimedia Foundation to get in contact with them regarding a possible takeover by the Wikimedia Foundation? It would be very interesting to hear whether they would be willing to be acquired by the WMF. Could I also propose this at the page you pointed me to? Or could you maybe propose this to the Wikimedia Foundation?
If possible, these are some questions I think would need to be answered:
The loss of WebCite would mean that the article citations that have been archived there would be lost and many citation links at Wikipedia be dead. Also, the reason why I asked about starting new Wikimedia projects here was exactly because I wanted to investigate whether the WMF could start its own archiving project. A takeover of WebCite could give Wikipedia access to WebCites already existing database of cached websites. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 19:18, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Not sure if you had seen this, but if it succeeds the MFD it might be of ongoing interest to you: Wikipedia:WMFN Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 17:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
And I've been told to that I should ask for your input. Would you mind replying at the noticeboard? Thanks so much. Biosthmors ( talk) 03:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello again, Maggie/MRG:
At a recent RFA (in which you participated as a Wikipedia editor, rather than in your role with the foundation), another representative of the foundation, writing in that capacity, stated that the RFA was a "hijacking". [2] The nominator has expressed a concern about this on the talk page of the WMF representative, as have I. [3] I have specifically asked if that accusation is the position of the Foundation.
RFA may be somewhat of a free-fire zone, but I think I higher standard of discourse is to be expected of WMF representatives.
Best regards, Kablammo ( talk) 18:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie; in relation to this thread, and a query that I left on Okeyes, please see this thread. What wording would satisfy the legal team? -- Redrose64 ( talk) 16:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
It's been a full year since the Teahouse opened, and as we're reflecting on what's been accomplished, we wanted to celebrate with you.
Teahouse guests and hosts are sharing their stories in a new blog post about the project.
1 year statistics for Teahouse visitors compared to invited non-visitors from the pilot:
Metric | Control group | Teahouse group | Contrast |
---|---|---|---|
Average retention (weeks with at least 1 edit) | 5.02 weeks | 8.57 weeks | 1.7x retention |
Average number of articles edited | 58.7 articles | 116.9 edits | 2.0x articles edited |
Average talk page edits | 36.5 edits | 85.6 edits | 2.4x talk page edits |
Average article space edits | 129.6 edits | 360.4 edits | 2.8x article edits |
Average total edits (all namespaces) | 182.1 edits | 532.4 edits | 2.9x total edits |
Over the past year almost 2000 questions have been asked and answered, 669 editors have introduced themselves, 1670 guests have been served, 867 experienced Wikipedians have participated in the project, and 137 have served as hosts. Read more project analysis in our CSCW 2013 paper
Last month January was our most active month so far! 78 profiles were created, 46 active hosts answered 263 questions, and 11 new hosts joined the project.
Come by the Teahouse to share a cup of tea and enjoy a Birthday Cupcake! Happy Birthday to the Teahouse and thank you for a year's worth of interest and support :-)
Hi, Maggie. I haven't ventured into copyright violations much lately but Ironholds suggested that I contact you about a situation I was recently alerted to via WP:COIN.
At the end of last year, GibraltarpediaA held a competition in which editors were awarded points for creating articles and more points for having them obtain GA/FA status (along with a few other ways to earn points). At the end of the competition, the winner was awarded with a trip to Gibralter, for free, from anywhere in Europe. There have been some questions about who sponsored the competition and apparently the government of Gibralter may have played some role in the sponsorship and expected favorable coverage in return. Here is a list of the articles affected by the competition (I'd say there's close to 700-1000). The list of participants and points earned by each shows that Bill william compton earned the most points but a winner was never announced, as far as I can tell. Later, Prioryman stated that he was the winner but he's never listed in the list of participants. I still can't find an announcement regarding who won but the discrepency may in part be due to Bill william compton having used copyrighted material in several articles and subsequently having his autopatroller status revoked.
Outside of the COI and WP:GAME issues, I'm concerned that such competitions might get WP or the WMF into some legal trouble. I'm not an attorney but I've participated in some very large competitions with a small group of participants and I was surprised at how complicated the whole process is. For instance, publishing the rules and regulations (publishing them on WP where they can be changed by anyone may be an issue), clearly publishing a winner, and not backing out of those rules to name a winner are legally required. I've also seen issues regarding a monetary award that's the equivalent to the prize given but that's besides the point.
My concern is that the WMF may have unwittingly hosted an entire competition on its servers and while I don't know how laws in Europe regarding holding such a competition relate to those in the US, the competition may not have completely followed the law. I'm also not sure that laws in any part of Europe would apply if the servers hosting the competition and the WMF are in the US. I have seen nothing that suggests that the WMF has condoned the competition and while a discussion was had at AN, I see no indication that the WMF was even aware of the competition, let alone condoned it. I may be completely wrong here but I'd hate to see the WMF get into legal trouble because a group of editors didn't understand what they were doing when they held a competition.
Before I start digging into the COI/GAME issues, I wanted to make sure that the WMF was aware of the situation and see what the foundation's stance is on hosting such competitions. Any thoughts? OlYeller21 Talktome 21:12, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie, I wanted to point your attention to two related discussions:
They involve what happens when a COI editor or representative is led to a talk page and advised to engage there. Since this sometimes happens through OTRS with sensitive or controversial subjects, I was curious if you had any thoughts to relay about how best to make it abundantly clear that COI editors even when assisted through OTRS get no special privileges and other editors have no particular obligations to do what is requested or suggested. I'm trying to clarify guidance on this, starting in my userspace: User:Ocaasi/COIreview. Since it involves OTRS volunteers and their role and status I thought you might want to review it. I've also emailed the OTRS list to ask a similar question about clarifying our position in these situations. Cheers, and I hope you're doing awesomely as usual, Ocaasi t | c 22:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Patriot1010 ( talk) 15:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
This will be one of those rare cases where extra oversight will be required. Patriot1010 ( talk) 16:13, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Just spotted your message, that material was originally posted by a different IP e.g.
Difference between revisions -Revision as of 11:27, 11 June 2009 - 87.194.84.46
I did revert some vandalism to the content in 2010, but haven't touched the page since, so not the source of the 2013 content your DMCA takedown request refers to:
Difference between revisions - Revision as of 16:00, 27 March 2010\
83.104.51.74 ( talk) 13:09, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi there,
I proposed a change at Wikipedia talk:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License#Date formats. The change seemed minor, as it merely involves reformatting dates for consistency and clarity, but I have been advised to seek permission from a WMF representative, such as yourself. Please see the comments there which will hopefully be self-explanatory.
Many thanks! — sroc ( talk) 12:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi again. Some of us are curious about FOP and country of origin. If a statue is created by an American in the USA and first published/unveiled in the USA and then copies are created and moved to an FOP country like the UK, do photographs taken in the UK violate USA copyright if the images are uploaded to commons servers? Basically can we upload images of the Academy Award Oscar statues that are on display in UK, Germany, and Netherlands? If so, should we should delete the fair use image we have now on en:wp and replace it?-- Canoe1967 ( talk) 14:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Sometimes things get out of hand here. We have a new user whose inexperienced behaviour has mightily pissed off the great and good(!) here, but whose intent seems only to be the improvement of WIkipedia. Now, to be fair, he has been abrasive. Equally he has been treated as if he is a halfwit. The outcome is here, and there is a potentially good conversation on my own talk page. I'm hoping you may have oil to pour on troubled waters. He appears to be a substantial academic subject expert having problems in a weird and unfamiliar pond. Such editors wpuld be a loss to WIkipedia, and losing them is a poor comment on Wikipedia in the wider community. Fiddle Faddle 13:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
[5]. Regards, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 11:14, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
– Philosopher Let us reason together. 20:06, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I have left a proposal for a short message to placed on everyone's watchlist next week here. Seeing that you comment on the most recent proposal I thought it would be a good idea let you know about my request. Thanks!-- Dom497 ( talk) 00:04, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi again. Did the WMF decide if we could host an image from one of the four FOP countries in List of Academy Award trophies on public display? If so we should probably delete File:Oscar statuette.jpg because it is possible to host a free licence image.-- Canoe1967 ( talk) 22:52, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie, I've been watching your valiant and always nice replies on the feedback page and just wanted to drop you a note. I meant to stop by last night, but didn't get to it. I'm sorry to see you working today and hope you can catch a break soon. Anyway, you're doing a great job. And happy 4th (if you live where we celebrate it!). formerly Truthkeeper, now Victoria ( talk) 12:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Maggie. Thanks for your reply in the Visual Editor article. I am composing this message live from my Chrome browser. I have to this point used my sandbox and wiped the same comment but have seen nothing different within the "edit source" option. Everything as it was yesterday! Are you able to provide more information here? The Big Hoof! ( talk) 13:10, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
PS. I have read your comments under your other account name which means that you'll probably post a reply here so that is fine, I shall keep this on watch and there will be no need to comment at my talk page. Thanks. The Big Hoof! ( talk) 13:10, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
to learn that the editor I've known (under your "lunar ID") as the "attribution and copyright gal" is actually a WMF employee! You have your hands full with this VE release, but I'm confident you're up to the task. Seems this version is like Windows Vista or 8 (too much change for users to digest), and it won't gain more widespread acceptance until the next, more incremental, Windows 7 or 8.1-type release comes out. But stick with it.... Happy 4th, Wbm1058 ( talk) 13:40, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar |
For YOU Mike Coppolano ( talk) 14:30, 4 July 2013 (UTC) |
Hi. I'm traveling, so my ability to respond is going to be low. I'm really sorry to see you so distressed, PumpkinSky. We've certainly worked together many a time, and I don't want you to be unhappy. :( That said, I would be really careful about being spooked too much by the slides. They were used to accompany Jorm's Wikimania presentation. Jorm is a pretty awesome speaker, and he doesn't use slides to be redundant to his speech, but to pique interest and capture attention. Unlike with some speakers (where you could pretty much be deaf and just read the thing), you can't intuit Jorm's message from his slides alone. :) In context, I have no doubt that he thoroughly explained "More Kirk, less Spock", and I bet if I had more bandwidth where I am I could find you the video of that speech somewhere so you could hear the whole thing. :)
But Quiddity's notes are important here - what I'd focus on is the concepts here. Conceptually, I find Flow pretty exciting. "Ability to stop watching individual conversations" - that's a clear win for me. One of the reasons I have come to like the red box is because I know people can call me if they need me. But it's not a failsafe, and I have come upon many an old thread (especially copyright related) where somebody has asked me a question I overlooked. That not happening is a good thing for me. :) I have become increasingly disenchanted with my own "keep all threads in one space" convention - when I was able to volunteer 24/7 that was easy and felt like a no-brainer to me (even though I knew some people preferred otherwise). Now that I may be unable to edit as a volunteer for several days in a row, I'm missing stuff. And I wonder how many people have wanted to talk to me over the years who have missed stuff, too, due to my preference for replying on my own talk page. :(
I understand that you don't like all the splashy bits like the icons. I don't know if I'll opt for that myself or not - I'm disconcerted by seeing my face everywhere, so my Google icon is a public domain magpie. And then I feel really strange that my icon is a bird. In other words, I can't win there. :D But people like to customize their appearance, no matter the medium. For instance, you've done appropriately interesting things with the coloring of your signature, enhancing your name...but it doesn't distract people from your message. It's ultimately just assimilated quickly into a thought that goes something like "Oh, it's him. :)" I suspect any avatar usage will be as well. (I also wouldn't be surprised if somebody somewhere makes some gadget to hide them, but I don't know if that will happen or not. Refer back to the bit where I can't figure out how to send emails from my cellphone. :))
I hope that when this is unveiled, you will be pleasantly surprised.
And I'm happy to continue discussing it with you, although I may have some difficulty over the weekend. But instead of the slides, though, which are not easily understood out of context, let's talk about Wikipedia:Flow. -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 11:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
PumpkinSky, I really do understand your concern. If I were forced to use VE and VE only in editing, I wouldn't be a happy camper at the moment - but FLOW and VE are very different products and have very different development paths accordingly. VE needs the development path its on for the reasons I explained above; the complexity of article editing is huge, and the diversity in approaches to it is likewise. I would be really happy if it had fewer bugs (and am sure the developers feel the same), but it's being rapidly improved and (particularly important) tailored to the needs of the community as they try it and say, "It would be better if it worked like this...."
In terms of FLOW, I'm not sure if you realize how hostile your initial approach here was. I know you're a reasonable guy, and I assume that you're in the first flush of finding out about it and being worried about what it might do. I would really hope you'll take time to think it through and try to be open-minded about it. Jorm has answered some of your concerns above - he's also a reasonable guy. :) And he is both competent and passionate about Wikipedia. :D
All the other stuff - yes, the community plays a big roll in steering the Wikimedia Foundation. If you're interested in hearing more about some of the backlot infrastructure, please let me know. I've learned a lot since first becoming community liaison. Of course, a lot of these conversations take place on Meta, which is where cross-project business is intended to be discussed. It would be much easier if we had some means of watching conversations across wikis. -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 23:38, 6 July 2013 (UTC)