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Hi, I found you through the list of Wikipedians in Lima. I was in Lima this summer and I visited the wonderful Larco Museum. I didn't have a camera with me at the time, and now I regret it. Among many other things, I distinctly remember very interesting Moche sculptures of dead people masturbating that would make a great addition to our Moche articles. Wikimedia Commens doesn't yet have any of those. Do you think it would be possible for some Wikipedians to organize a photo trip to the museum? That would be great. I also posted this request to User talk:Le K-li. Cheers, AxelBoldt ( talk) 19:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
You should get a peer review for it before an FAC. Spiderone 16:35, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
How are you? I haven't seen you for a while.
I don't know if you noticed, but Keysanger today was doing some drive-by of speedy deletions.
Luckily I spotted the article I created ( Occupation of Lima) right on time, and was able to save it. I know you created some as well. I placed the -hang on- tag on two, but I can't see them on my contributions, so they might have been deleted. In any case, you can still recover them (assuming that you want to do that) by contacting the administrator that processed the speedies.
Ok I just wanted to let you know that.
Take care. Likeminas ( talk) 22:24, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello, MarshalN20. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
Hello, MarshalN20. Please be aware that a request for comments has been filed concerning your conduct on Wikipedia. The RFC entry can be found by your name in this list, and the actual discussion can be found at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/MarshalN20, where you may want to participate. Erebedhel ( talk) 09:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC) .
He himself can check your IP and my IP and then he'll realize how stupid hes gonna look. If he blames me as your sock puppet for expressing my ideas and facts then he seriously needs to get brains.-- Unknown Lupus | Talk 21:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
{{
unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our
guide to appealing blocks first. – Juliancolton | Talk 14:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
MarshalN20 ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
Decline reason:
Block has expired. Closedmouth ( talk) 14:47, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
This unblock request is too confused. please review WP:GAB, especially WP:NOTTHEM, and shorten it. Sandstein 19:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
The Son de los Diablos (English: Rhythm of the Devils) is an Afro-Peruvian dance that developed as a mixture between African, Spanish, and Native American rhythms. Nicomedes Santa Cruz explains that, despite popular opinion, the Son de los Diablos has no links with African rituals or with the Andean Morenada, but rather that it is more likely related to the Diablada. [1]
Developed during the Viceroyalty of Peru with origins in Spain, the Son de los Diablos was assimilated by the black slaves living in the Spanish colony. After the independence of Peru in 1821, people of African descent lived in alleys near churches and plazas of Lima, where festivities were held. Before the celebrations, blacks joined the festivities by forming gangs that danced the Son de los Diablos.
Much like the Diablada, the Son de los Diablos was heavily influenced by the Spanish Corpus Christi celebrations, it was predominantly practiced by an ethnic community (in this case the Afro-Peruvian community), and it was banned from religious celebrations by the Catholic Church in 1817. Nonetheless, the dance would remain an important part of carnival celebrations in Lima up until the early 20th century. [2] The dance would gain a revival in the 1950s when Jose Durand used Pancho Fierro's depictions of the dance and the information provided by old Son de los Diablos dancers in order to once again bring the dance back to life. [2]
A distinguishing factor of the Son de los Diablos is its usage of such instruments as the Cajita, a small wooden box that opens and closes creating a distinctive sound, and the Quijada, the jawbone of a horse, donkey, or mule, that when hit creates a raspy buzz. [2]
Could you help with translations and text inside "War of the Pacific" article. My english is not nice. Arafael ( talk) 13:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war. Note that the
three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the
three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to
discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a
consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek
dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request
page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be
blocked from editing.
This is to warn you about a discussion involving you in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring
-- Erebedhel - Talk 08:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
MarshalN20,
I have looked at the question of edit warring above quietly and calmly. Please could you also calm down and use measured language. No one will find against you without looking at the edits and thinking about what is happening. Ranting does not improve your credibility. -- BozMo talk 13:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm getting tired of this edit war with Erebedhel. The kid is stubborn as hell, but i guess stubbornness is a good thing when one plans to reach a goal. Estoy cansado de esto. Solamente mantendre un ojo en el articulo de la Diablada. Fue obvio que Erebedhel dijiera "comments made by inexperienced contributors", como a el no lo insultaron el ahora dice que todos debemos seguir las reglas de Wikipedia y cuando a el le dicen algo sobre eso el dice que estamos insultando a su nacionalidad. Es imposible discutir con el. Cada vez que le pregunto como pueden decir que la Diablada es Boliviana cuando Bolivia nunca existio en ese tiempo siempre cambia la conversasion.
Parte de editacion que hizo 165.91.173.68 al articulo: according to the UNESCO and the Real Academia de la Lengua Española, the dance is traditional from the Bolivian city of Oruro, and from there it spread to other parts of the Bolivian altiplano. This theory can be verified by simply looking at the map: Bolivia Oruro is at the center from where the other places are located (Simple logic).
Es tanta coincidencia que el mismo IP que edito my pagina de usuario y tambien la tuya y puso que yo era un "Sock puppet" tuyo y que tu eras un "chilean acting like a perusian." tambien sepa la misma cosa que Erebedhel dijo sobre la definicion de La Diablada en la Real Academia de la Lengua Española y tambien sepa las acusaciones que Erebedhel puso contra ti sobre tener "sock puppet accounts". Hasta tambien saco el mismo apodo que Erebedhel llamo a Peruamos, no te acuerdas que los llamaba "Peruans" igual que el tal 165.91.173.68 los llamo en la pagina de discusion. Me parece que sea tanta la coincidencia, no crees? Unknown Lupus | Talk 00:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Hellow, I would like to ask you for help. Usaer Clocac insist in that this map I made is no presentable on wikipedia. I dont know what to do, first I corrected Tumbes as Peruvian and now he goes on to insist on that other thing are wrong also. It is extrmely difficult or i mpossible to establish a really accurate map, since boder treaties in that time were unprecise and disputed. Would you like to "correct" the map? Plaese consired also that Ecuador had claims on what is now the Peruvian Amazon. Or you perhaps thinks (as I do) that the map is good enougth to be on the article Chincha Islands War, because that article is not about the Peru--Ecuador border but of a Spanish neo-colonial war. Dentren | Talk 23:13, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your edit to the
disambiguation page
Carlos Zambrano. However, please note that disambiguation pages are not articles; rather, they are meant to help readers find a specific article quickly and easily. From the
disambiguation do's and don'ts, you should:
Edits are not vandalism simply because they come from IPs. The article on the baseball player was at the plain title until a few days ago, without dispute. If you continue to press this issue without discussion, I will have the baseball player's page moved back through WP:RM per standard procedure as a controversial move. 210.161.33.186 ( talk) 01:57, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad to know that finally a formal Sockpuppet Investigation has been conducted (I hope that BozMo is properly informed about the result as I wouldn't like him to distrust me). I now understand that the timing of my appearance was probably not the best and was one of the reasons of why we had such a rough start. I also apologize for the RfC I now consider it wasn't the best thing to do and I hope that we can leave that aside after it's closed during this weekend. I also hope that the mediation cabal could help us finish this dispute, meanwhile I can't get back in time but I promise that none of my actions in the future will be in an aggressive or hostile way but I still consider that the article can be perfected and could have more information. I've been reading WP:TRUTH which is funny essay about most Wikipedians conduct and I think we both fell into that. I consider that WP:NPOV is a complex matter and I think it'd be a good idea to read the extensive information about it available on Wikipedia and use the correct tools for dispute resolution in a friendly and peaceful way. I'm reading this week the following manuals, perhaps you'd like to read them as well so we can talk about the same things next week without entering in any bitter argument again:
Those aren't policies but only advices written by other Wikipedians to improve the quality of articles so please don't think that if I mention them it's any kind of accusation or anything like that.
Best regards -- Erebedhel - Talk 00:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
On reflection, I am starting to agree with you that there should be a disambiguation page, because there is no clear primary topic. You haven't made this easy, because of the arrogant and offensive way you stated your views here. Your argument boils down to saying that soccer is more popular than baseball, therefore any soccer player must be more important than any baseball player. This is utter nonsense; I don't think many Venezuelans would agree with you. But that's not the point; the point is that both of these persons are reasonably well-known within their respective sports, and it is probably impossible for either of their articles to meet the primary topic standard.
I also think you are way out of line to change the redirect while the WP:RM discussion is still open; any changes should wait until that discussion is completed. Your latest change is particularly disruptive; did you even look at Special:WhatLinksHere/Carlos Zambrano to see how many links you would be breaking by redirecting to the soccer player? -- R'n'B ( call me Russ) 13:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
A request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Diablada has been filed with the Mediation Committee (MedCom). You have been named as a party in this request. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Diablada and then indicate in the "Party agreement" section whether you would agree to participate in the mediation or not.
Mediation is a process where a group of editors in disagreement over matters of article content are guided through discussing the issues of the dispute (and towards developing a resolution) by an uninvolved editor experienced with handling disputes (the mediator). The process is voluntary and is designed for parties who disagree in good faith and who share a common desire to resolve their differences. Further information on the MedCom is at Wikipedia:Mediation Committee; the policy the Committee will work by whilst handling your dispute is at Wikipedia:Mediation Committee/Policy; further information on Wikipedia's policy on resolving disagreements is at Wikipedia:Resolving disputes.
If you would be willing to participate in the mediation of this dispute but wish for its scope to be adjusted then you may propose on the case talk page amendments or additions to the list of issues to be mediated. Any queries or concerns that you have may be directed to an active mediator of the Committee or by e-mailing the MedCom's private mailing list ( click here for details).
Please indicate on the case page your agreement to participate in the mediation within seven days of the request's submission.
Thank you, Erebedhel - Talk —Preceding undated comment added 08:06, 6 November 2009 (UTC).
Formal Mediation main objective is to try to isolate the user conduct problem and focus only in content, the "Other steps in dispute resolution that have been attempted" is only to list the steps the filling party (i.e. me) followed before requesting a Formal Mediation it's supposed to be only a brief list and not a discussion. If we don't follow the format required, the request will be denied. Could you please remove then and bring your concerns through the correct channels? I'm only asking you to sing:
#Agree. ~~~~
in Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Diablada#Parties' agreement to mediate and in the discussion just follow the steps and address exclusively to the content.
Thank you -- Erebedhel - Talk 17:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Hello there is dispute going on Talk:Chilean presidential election, 2009 about the image of Sebastián Piñera would you mind to give your opinion? Dentren | Talk 22:53, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello MarshalN20! Thank you for your contributions. I am a
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Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The
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Thanks!-- DASHBot ( talk) 05:57, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't consider correct to have a threaded discussion on Ryan's talk page so I'll move it here:
I'll not continue this conversation on Ryan's for respect but I'll point out something. Both of us have Workshops User:MarshalN20/Sandbox - User:Erebedhel/Workshop, precisely for this purpose. I have plenty of observations about MarshalN20's version but I, for respect, keep my opinions till the mediation starts. What is disrespectful is that attitude of criticizing something that isn't even finished, unlike MarshalN20, I clearly put a warning sign at the top of my page saying so, I respectfully abstained myself from editing the page. And above all what is more disrespectful is that tone like if he pretended to "lecture" me about ethics and neutrality while what he has been is precisely pushing his irrational hatred towards a country that have never done any harm to him, calling Bolivians ignorants and trying to nullify its entire culture by pushing fringe theories and ranting out of proportion while this could be a simple case of WP:NOTLEX. I'm sorry for disturbing your talk page but sadly my patience is gone, I tried by all means to stay calm towards this person's attitude but I had enough. Erebedhel - Talk 16:28, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Well precisely doing that constitutes original research specially in a topic that is not familiar for most people.
You mentioned it to BozMo but those comments are still there, besides I'm the one offended and that apology didn't arrive to me. Besides your whole attitude on the article is "trying to prove Bolivians are ignorants" which is even more offensive.
It's clear on your user page that you like Military History for example, nobody is forcing you to edit articles about dances, besides one historical fact is that during the 20th century nobody questioned that the Diablada was originated in Oruro, the version of Juli started after a campaign of the newspaper Correo and the Native Association Puno in 2003, it says so clearly in one of your sources. I'll not go further on the discussion about the article content as I consider this is not the place, unless that's what you want, but I consider that the article not only is systematically biased towards Peru but also lacks of information from very important sources. And I'm only trying to find a space to deal with these details in an ordered and civil environment which you for your temper are blocking it, editing peacefully in my workshop wasn't a provocation whatsoever and your reaction was completely unnecessary.
Unlike you I did say that if the "dog" remark offended you I apologize and here it is again. But I didn't say you were one, I said that, based on your comment you made on your opening statement, you have the belief that by increasing your edit counts on an article you were gaining some sort of status allowing you to denigrate others. That's the pattern I observed in the article that you didn't edit anything for days, week or months then someone upsets you and you again edit it, is like you were trying to show you own the article, is just an observation.
I'm "easily offended" because you're offending me with that tone, like you actually thought you had some sort of authority upon me. I don't consider that you have anything to "teach" me, you should first observe your own acts and learn to respect other countries before coming here and humiliate me for asking you to address me with respect. So I'm asking you, either dedicate to study and get some sleep or do articles about military history or Age of Empires or anything but let's just avoid colliding with each others, I like anthropology I like linguistics and I have been collaborating for years and nobody ever accused me of the things you're pretending to accuse me. Erebedhel - Talk 23:34, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
I mean the opening statement of the mediation, I tried to write mine without mentioning you, yet you wrote that full of "the other party did this did that" which is stated in the guidelines of formal mediation as a common mistake that only makes the environment of mediation more difficult. And my comment was upon that, you entered mediation wanting to fight not to find a solution and the mediator should be aware of that. You expressed your complain and I politely made sure that you had the last word on his page, so now I ask you again let's avoid conflict.
The introduction should provide a concrete definition of what is contained in the article, and specifically should show the different points of view about the subject. In my Workshop I'd never mention the word "sole" or imply such thing, the debate is about the origins and the patrimonial identity. Chile's POV for example, is based on the idea that the Diablada was originated in Oruro and even though it was brought to Chile in the 1950's they consider the Diablada as part of their cultural heritage for sharing common ancestry, which is also valid and deserves to be explained. I didn't develop that part yet, but I'll do so in the next days. It surprises me that you fail to see that in the lead section of the present article while right there in the second paragraph shows a bias to make it look as the "Aymaran Rome" was the birthplace no matter how much you bold it, it's obvious that in the present article there is a clear bias to the Juli theory, besides there is a clear policy regarding WP:UNDUE, if most literature about the Diablada says Oruro is the birthplace, secondly Juli and thirdly Potosí then the article should give each theory its respective place, not lying and hide information to make them look equally valid [5], lying and hiding information is highly more unethical. With chronology it'd be the same Oruro is 2000 years ago, Potosí 1538, Juli 1576.
I disagree with your perspective about the role of the UNESCO or Evo Morales on this thing. The UNESCO doesn't have any "enforcing" attributes upon what nations do, is not a police and will never say "Boliva has the sole ownership of the Diablada" it never participated in any disputes of that kind and it will never do it. What the UNESCO does is to document and coordinate with governments activities related to culture, their representatives in Bolivia documented the Diablada since 1977, in 1991 decided to start the process of declaring the Carnaval de Oruro as Cultural heritage of humankind, and in a workgroup leaded by Ivés de la Goublaye de Menorval representing the UNESCO, studied what is the Ito Festival, the Llama llama dance the Diablada and other dances. The UNESCO will never say anything further than that, only documents things, it's validity lays upon the reliability this organization has and therefore its studies are highly respected, the UNESCO have extensive material about Peruvian culture but there is no mention to the Diablada as Peruvian in their archives, check their website. And well I believe that Evo Morales is not a historian, actually the only Bolivian president who was a historian was Carlos Mesa so I really don't think that Morales' opinions are even relevant on this matter, regardless of his position in the government.
Finally, "Peruvian culture overlaps the culture of certain countries, particularly that of Bolivia"? if you are proud of calling yourself a historian then you should know perfectly well that the Republic of Peru is not the same as Viceroyalty of Peru the latter was a Spanish administrative entity, those are completely different things and confusing them is highly inaccurate. And well I can guarantee you that if you think you can and will continue using those adjectives with others you'll find yourself plenty of times on WP:WQA not from me because I'll honestly try to stay out of your way but many others would find that offensive.
Having said that I think this conversation has reached to its end, I'll continue working in my Workshop, I'll take into account your observations, and I hope that Ryan finds time to deal with the case anytime soon.If you do wish to debate about content, perhaps we could continue this on the mediation page or the article talk page. But meanwhile I really think it's better not to have any more confrontation. Best regards Erebedhel - Talk 22:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Erebedhel - Talk 05:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Hey There Marshal, i've been without internet for a while due to a recent move. I haven't been up to much lately other than just checking the pages on my watch list. I've been kinda disappointed on how some turned out, but what can i do I'm busier than ever nowadays although i try to change some stuff ever now and then to keep articles neutral and removing unnecessary information that pulls to one side than to the other. As always here are always people who change it back so it's a shame. How you been and what have you been up to? Unknown Lupus | Talk 19:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry MarshallN20, I did not mean to imply anything when I commented that you were not online. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 15:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Erebedhel - Talk 02:11, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello mr Marshal. You might be interesting in taking a look into the Sopaipilla article. There is a user there that insist on removing info about sopaipillas in south america making it the article look as if sopaipillas were something unique from Texas and New Mexico. Of course the south american sopaipillas lacks sources but we all now (I suppose) that they are eaten here. Dentren | Talk 16:03, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as in Sopaipilla, but we regretfully cannot accept original research. Please find and add a reliable citation to your recent edit so we can verify your work. Uncited information may be removed at any time. The comment you made in this diff [6] is WRONG -- and making such a claim that start class articles are exempt from policy won't get you very far. Just cite the material you're adding and all will be well. Thanks for your efforts, and happy editing! JBsupreme ( talk) 19:46, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi Marshal, I take on board your comments about feeling under attack, but I don't think Erebedhel was attacking you. Whether they are emotional or not is something that I think isn't really relevant to the mediation, however I'd be happy to discuss this more on my talk page, or preferrably via email so the messages don't inflame matters further and we can have a full and frank discussion. For the record, I don't see you make any insults towards Erebedhel, only a brief comment about his emotions.
I actually think we are beginning to make headway, largely thanks to the fact that you are both great editors and even if you are often at loggerheads you are both fairly reasonable. Certainly that makes my job much easier. :-)
Incidentally, sorry for the length of time that it took to respond to everything.
I think that Erebedhel's idea of a seperate section for each issue is a good one, also I like they way that they setup a table to compare versions. Do you find this helpful? - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 04:06, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hi, I found you through the list of Wikipedians in Lima. I was in Lima this summer and I visited the wonderful Larco Museum. I didn't have a camera with me at the time, and now I regret it. Among many other things, I distinctly remember very interesting Moche sculptures of dead people masturbating that would make a great addition to our Moche articles. Wikimedia Commens doesn't yet have any of those. Do you think it would be possible for some Wikipedians to organize a photo trip to the museum? That would be great. I also posted this request to User talk:Le K-li. Cheers, AxelBoldt ( talk) 19:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
You should get a peer review for it before an FAC. Spiderone 16:35, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
How are you? I haven't seen you for a while.
I don't know if you noticed, but Keysanger today was doing some drive-by of speedy deletions.
Luckily I spotted the article I created ( Occupation of Lima) right on time, and was able to save it. I know you created some as well. I placed the -hang on- tag on two, but I can't see them on my contributions, so they might have been deleted. In any case, you can still recover them (assuming that you want to do that) by contacting the administrator that processed the speedies.
Ok I just wanted to let you know that.
Take care. Likeminas ( talk) 22:24, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello, MarshalN20. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
Hello, MarshalN20. Please be aware that a request for comments has been filed concerning your conduct on Wikipedia. The RFC entry can be found by your name in this list, and the actual discussion can be found at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/MarshalN20, where you may want to participate. Erebedhel ( talk) 09:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC) .
He himself can check your IP and my IP and then he'll realize how stupid hes gonna look. If he blames me as your sock puppet for expressing my ideas and facts then he seriously needs to get brains.-- Unknown Lupus | Talk 21:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
{{
unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our
guide to appealing blocks first. – Juliancolton | Talk 14:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
MarshalN20 ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
Decline reason:
Block has expired. Closedmouth ( talk) 14:47, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
This unblock request is too confused. please review WP:GAB, especially WP:NOTTHEM, and shorten it. Sandstein 19:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
The Son de los Diablos (English: Rhythm of the Devils) is an Afro-Peruvian dance that developed as a mixture between African, Spanish, and Native American rhythms. Nicomedes Santa Cruz explains that, despite popular opinion, the Son de los Diablos has no links with African rituals or with the Andean Morenada, but rather that it is more likely related to the Diablada. [1]
Developed during the Viceroyalty of Peru with origins in Spain, the Son de los Diablos was assimilated by the black slaves living in the Spanish colony. After the independence of Peru in 1821, people of African descent lived in alleys near churches and plazas of Lima, where festivities were held. Before the celebrations, blacks joined the festivities by forming gangs that danced the Son de los Diablos.
Much like the Diablada, the Son de los Diablos was heavily influenced by the Spanish Corpus Christi celebrations, it was predominantly practiced by an ethnic community (in this case the Afro-Peruvian community), and it was banned from religious celebrations by the Catholic Church in 1817. Nonetheless, the dance would remain an important part of carnival celebrations in Lima up until the early 20th century. [2] The dance would gain a revival in the 1950s when Jose Durand used Pancho Fierro's depictions of the dance and the information provided by old Son de los Diablos dancers in order to once again bring the dance back to life. [2]
A distinguishing factor of the Son de los Diablos is its usage of such instruments as the Cajita, a small wooden box that opens and closes creating a distinctive sound, and the Quijada, the jawbone of a horse, donkey, or mule, that when hit creates a raspy buzz. [2]
Could you help with translations and text inside "War of the Pacific" article. My english is not nice. Arafael ( talk) 13:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war. Note that the
three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the
three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to
discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a
consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek
dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request
page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be
blocked from editing.
This is to warn you about a discussion involving you in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring
-- Erebedhel - Talk 08:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
MarshalN20,
I have looked at the question of edit warring above quietly and calmly. Please could you also calm down and use measured language. No one will find against you without looking at the edits and thinking about what is happening. Ranting does not improve your credibility. -- BozMo talk 13:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm getting tired of this edit war with Erebedhel. The kid is stubborn as hell, but i guess stubbornness is a good thing when one plans to reach a goal. Estoy cansado de esto. Solamente mantendre un ojo en el articulo de la Diablada. Fue obvio que Erebedhel dijiera "comments made by inexperienced contributors", como a el no lo insultaron el ahora dice que todos debemos seguir las reglas de Wikipedia y cuando a el le dicen algo sobre eso el dice que estamos insultando a su nacionalidad. Es imposible discutir con el. Cada vez que le pregunto como pueden decir que la Diablada es Boliviana cuando Bolivia nunca existio en ese tiempo siempre cambia la conversasion.
Parte de editacion que hizo 165.91.173.68 al articulo: according to the UNESCO and the Real Academia de la Lengua Española, the dance is traditional from the Bolivian city of Oruro, and from there it spread to other parts of the Bolivian altiplano. This theory can be verified by simply looking at the map: Bolivia Oruro is at the center from where the other places are located (Simple logic).
Es tanta coincidencia que el mismo IP que edito my pagina de usuario y tambien la tuya y puso que yo era un "Sock puppet" tuyo y que tu eras un "chilean acting like a perusian." tambien sepa la misma cosa que Erebedhel dijo sobre la definicion de La Diablada en la Real Academia de la Lengua Española y tambien sepa las acusaciones que Erebedhel puso contra ti sobre tener "sock puppet accounts". Hasta tambien saco el mismo apodo que Erebedhel llamo a Peruamos, no te acuerdas que los llamaba "Peruans" igual que el tal 165.91.173.68 los llamo en la pagina de discusion. Me parece que sea tanta la coincidencia, no crees? Unknown Lupus | Talk 00:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Hellow, I would like to ask you for help. Usaer Clocac insist in that this map I made is no presentable on wikipedia. I dont know what to do, first I corrected Tumbes as Peruvian and now he goes on to insist on that other thing are wrong also. It is extrmely difficult or i mpossible to establish a really accurate map, since boder treaties in that time were unprecise and disputed. Would you like to "correct" the map? Plaese consired also that Ecuador had claims on what is now the Peruvian Amazon. Or you perhaps thinks (as I do) that the map is good enougth to be on the article Chincha Islands War, because that article is not about the Peru--Ecuador border but of a Spanish neo-colonial war. Dentren | Talk 23:13, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your edit to the
disambiguation page
Carlos Zambrano. However, please note that disambiguation pages are not articles; rather, they are meant to help readers find a specific article quickly and easily. From the
disambiguation do's and don'ts, you should:
Edits are not vandalism simply because they come from IPs. The article on the baseball player was at the plain title until a few days ago, without dispute. If you continue to press this issue without discussion, I will have the baseball player's page moved back through WP:RM per standard procedure as a controversial move. 210.161.33.186 ( talk) 01:57, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad to know that finally a formal Sockpuppet Investigation has been conducted (I hope that BozMo is properly informed about the result as I wouldn't like him to distrust me). I now understand that the timing of my appearance was probably not the best and was one of the reasons of why we had such a rough start. I also apologize for the RfC I now consider it wasn't the best thing to do and I hope that we can leave that aside after it's closed during this weekend. I also hope that the mediation cabal could help us finish this dispute, meanwhile I can't get back in time but I promise that none of my actions in the future will be in an aggressive or hostile way but I still consider that the article can be perfected and could have more information. I've been reading WP:TRUTH which is funny essay about most Wikipedians conduct and I think we both fell into that. I consider that WP:NPOV is a complex matter and I think it'd be a good idea to read the extensive information about it available on Wikipedia and use the correct tools for dispute resolution in a friendly and peaceful way. I'm reading this week the following manuals, perhaps you'd like to read them as well so we can talk about the same things next week without entering in any bitter argument again:
Those aren't policies but only advices written by other Wikipedians to improve the quality of articles so please don't think that if I mention them it's any kind of accusation or anything like that.
Best regards -- Erebedhel - Talk 00:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
On reflection, I am starting to agree with you that there should be a disambiguation page, because there is no clear primary topic. You haven't made this easy, because of the arrogant and offensive way you stated your views here. Your argument boils down to saying that soccer is more popular than baseball, therefore any soccer player must be more important than any baseball player. This is utter nonsense; I don't think many Venezuelans would agree with you. But that's not the point; the point is that both of these persons are reasonably well-known within their respective sports, and it is probably impossible for either of their articles to meet the primary topic standard.
I also think you are way out of line to change the redirect while the WP:RM discussion is still open; any changes should wait until that discussion is completed. Your latest change is particularly disruptive; did you even look at Special:WhatLinksHere/Carlos Zambrano to see how many links you would be breaking by redirecting to the soccer player? -- R'n'B ( call me Russ) 13:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
A request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Diablada has been filed with the Mediation Committee (MedCom). You have been named as a party in this request. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Diablada and then indicate in the "Party agreement" section whether you would agree to participate in the mediation or not.
Mediation is a process where a group of editors in disagreement over matters of article content are guided through discussing the issues of the dispute (and towards developing a resolution) by an uninvolved editor experienced with handling disputes (the mediator). The process is voluntary and is designed for parties who disagree in good faith and who share a common desire to resolve their differences. Further information on the MedCom is at Wikipedia:Mediation Committee; the policy the Committee will work by whilst handling your dispute is at Wikipedia:Mediation Committee/Policy; further information on Wikipedia's policy on resolving disagreements is at Wikipedia:Resolving disputes.
If you would be willing to participate in the mediation of this dispute but wish for its scope to be adjusted then you may propose on the case talk page amendments or additions to the list of issues to be mediated. Any queries or concerns that you have may be directed to an active mediator of the Committee or by e-mailing the MedCom's private mailing list ( click here for details).
Please indicate on the case page your agreement to participate in the mediation within seven days of the request's submission.
Thank you, Erebedhel - Talk —Preceding undated comment added 08:06, 6 November 2009 (UTC).
Formal Mediation main objective is to try to isolate the user conduct problem and focus only in content, the "Other steps in dispute resolution that have been attempted" is only to list the steps the filling party (i.e. me) followed before requesting a Formal Mediation it's supposed to be only a brief list and not a discussion. If we don't follow the format required, the request will be denied. Could you please remove then and bring your concerns through the correct channels? I'm only asking you to sing:
#Agree. ~~~~
in Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Diablada#Parties' agreement to mediate and in the discussion just follow the steps and address exclusively to the content.
Thank you -- Erebedhel - Talk 17:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Hello there is dispute going on Talk:Chilean presidential election, 2009 about the image of Sebastián Piñera would you mind to give your opinion? Dentren | Talk 22:53, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello MarshalN20! Thank you for your contributions. I am a
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Thanks!-- DASHBot ( talk) 05:57, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't consider correct to have a threaded discussion on Ryan's talk page so I'll move it here:
I'll not continue this conversation on Ryan's for respect but I'll point out something. Both of us have Workshops User:MarshalN20/Sandbox - User:Erebedhel/Workshop, precisely for this purpose. I have plenty of observations about MarshalN20's version but I, for respect, keep my opinions till the mediation starts. What is disrespectful is that attitude of criticizing something that isn't even finished, unlike MarshalN20, I clearly put a warning sign at the top of my page saying so, I respectfully abstained myself from editing the page. And above all what is more disrespectful is that tone like if he pretended to "lecture" me about ethics and neutrality while what he has been is precisely pushing his irrational hatred towards a country that have never done any harm to him, calling Bolivians ignorants and trying to nullify its entire culture by pushing fringe theories and ranting out of proportion while this could be a simple case of WP:NOTLEX. I'm sorry for disturbing your talk page but sadly my patience is gone, I tried by all means to stay calm towards this person's attitude but I had enough. Erebedhel - Talk 16:28, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Well precisely doing that constitutes original research specially in a topic that is not familiar for most people.
You mentioned it to BozMo but those comments are still there, besides I'm the one offended and that apology didn't arrive to me. Besides your whole attitude on the article is "trying to prove Bolivians are ignorants" which is even more offensive.
It's clear on your user page that you like Military History for example, nobody is forcing you to edit articles about dances, besides one historical fact is that during the 20th century nobody questioned that the Diablada was originated in Oruro, the version of Juli started after a campaign of the newspaper Correo and the Native Association Puno in 2003, it says so clearly in one of your sources. I'll not go further on the discussion about the article content as I consider this is not the place, unless that's what you want, but I consider that the article not only is systematically biased towards Peru but also lacks of information from very important sources. And I'm only trying to find a space to deal with these details in an ordered and civil environment which you for your temper are blocking it, editing peacefully in my workshop wasn't a provocation whatsoever and your reaction was completely unnecessary.
Unlike you I did say that if the "dog" remark offended you I apologize and here it is again. But I didn't say you were one, I said that, based on your comment you made on your opening statement, you have the belief that by increasing your edit counts on an article you were gaining some sort of status allowing you to denigrate others. That's the pattern I observed in the article that you didn't edit anything for days, week or months then someone upsets you and you again edit it, is like you were trying to show you own the article, is just an observation.
I'm "easily offended" because you're offending me with that tone, like you actually thought you had some sort of authority upon me. I don't consider that you have anything to "teach" me, you should first observe your own acts and learn to respect other countries before coming here and humiliate me for asking you to address me with respect. So I'm asking you, either dedicate to study and get some sleep or do articles about military history or Age of Empires or anything but let's just avoid colliding with each others, I like anthropology I like linguistics and I have been collaborating for years and nobody ever accused me of the things you're pretending to accuse me. Erebedhel - Talk 23:34, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
I mean the opening statement of the mediation, I tried to write mine without mentioning you, yet you wrote that full of "the other party did this did that" which is stated in the guidelines of formal mediation as a common mistake that only makes the environment of mediation more difficult. And my comment was upon that, you entered mediation wanting to fight not to find a solution and the mediator should be aware of that. You expressed your complain and I politely made sure that you had the last word on his page, so now I ask you again let's avoid conflict.
The introduction should provide a concrete definition of what is contained in the article, and specifically should show the different points of view about the subject. In my Workshop I'd never mention the word "sole" or imply such thing, the debate is about the origins and the patrimonial identity. Chile's POV for example, is based on the idea that the Diablada was originated in Oruro and even though it was brought to Chile in the 1950's they consider the Diablada as part of their cultural heritage for sharing common ancestry, which is also valid and deserves to be explained. I didn't develop that part yet, but I'll do so in the next days. It surprises me that you fail to see that in the lead section of the present article while right there in the second paragraph shows a bias to make it look as the "Aymaran Rome" was the birthplace no matter how much you bold it, it's obvious that in the present article there is a clear bias to the Juli theory, besides there is a clear policy regarding WP:UNDUE, if most literature about the Diablada says Oruro is the birthplace, secondly Juli and thirdly Potosí then the article should give each theory its respective place, not lying and hide information to make them look equally valid [5], lying and hiding information is highly more unethical. With chronology it'd be the same Oruro is 2000 years ago, Potosí 1538, Juli 1576.
I disagree with your perspective about the role of the UNESCO or Evo Morales on this thing. The UNESCO doesn't have any "enforcing" attributes upon what nations do, is not a police and will never say "Boliva has the sole ownership of the Diablada" it never participated in any disputes of that kind and it will never do it. What the UNESCO does is to document and coordinate with governments activities related to culture, their representatives in Bolivia documented the Diablada since 1977, in 1991 decided to start the process of declaring the Carnaval de Oruro as Cultural heritage of humankind, and in a workgroup leaded by Ivés de la Goublaye de Menorval representing the UNESCO, studied what is the Ito Festival, the Llama llama dance the Diablada and other dances. The UNESCO will never say anything further than that, only documents things, it's validity lays upon the reliability this organization has and therefore its studies are highly respected, the UNESCO have extensive material about Peruvian culture but there is no mention to the Diablada as Peruvian in their archives, check their website. And well I believe that Evo Morales is not a historian, actually the only Bolivian president who was a historian was Carlos Mesa so I really don't think that Morales' opinions are even relevant on this matter, regardless of his position in the government.
Finally, "Peruvian culture overlaps the culture of certain countries, particularly that of Bolivia"? if you are proud of calling yourself a historian then you should know perfectly well that the Republic of Peru is not the same as Viceroyalty of Peru the latter was a Spanish administrative entity, those are completely different things and confusing them is highly inaccurate. And well I can guarantee you that if you think you can and will continue using those adjectives with others you'll find yourself plenty of times on WP:WQA not from me because I'll honestly try to stay out of your way but many others would find that offensive.
Having said that I think this conversation has reached to its end, I'll continue working in my Workshop, I'll take into account your observations, and I hope that Ryan finds time to deal with the case anytime soon.If you do wish to debate about content, perhaps we could continue this on the mediation page or the article talk page. But meanwhile I really think it's better not to have any more confrontation. Best regards Erebedhel - Talk 22:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Erebedhel - Talk 05:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Hey There Marshal, i've been without internet for a while due to a recent move. I haven't been up to much lately other than just checking the pages on my watch list. I've been kinda disappointed on how some turned out, but what can i do I'm busier than ever nowadays although i try to change some stuff ever now and then to keep articles neutral and removing unnecessary information that pulls to one side than to the other. As always here are always people who change it back so it's a shame. How you been and what have you been up to? Unknown Lupus | Talk 19:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry MarshallN20, I did not mean to imply anything when I commented that you were not online. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 15:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Erebedhel - Talk 02:11, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello mr Marshal. You might be interesting in taking a look into the Sopaipilla article. There is a user there that insist on removing info about sopaipillas in south america making it the article look as if sopaipillas were something unique from Texas and New Mexico. Of course the south american sopaipillas lacks sources but we all now (I suppose) that they are eaten here. Dentren | Talk 16:03, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as in Sopaipilla, but we regretfully cannot accept original research. Please find and add a reliable citation to your recent edit so we can verify your work. Uncited information may be removed at any time. The comment you made in this diff [6] is WRONG -- and making such a claim that start class articles are exempt from policy won't get you very far. Just cite the material you're adding and all will be well. Thanks for your efforts, and happy editing! JBsupreme ( talk) 19:46, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi Marshal, I take on board your comments about feeling under attack, but I don't think Erebedhel was attacking you. Whether they are emotional or not is something that I think isn't really relevant to the mediation, however I'd be happy to discuss this more on my talk page, or preferrably via email so the messages don't inflame matters further and we can have a full and frank discussion. For the record, I don't see you make any insults towards Erebedhel, only a brief comment about his emotions.
I actually think we are beginning to make headway, largely thanks to the fact that you are both great editors and even if you are often at loggerheads you are both fairly reasonable. Certainly that makes my job much easier. :-)
Incidentally, sorry for the length of time that it took to respond to everything.
I think that Erebedhel's idea of a seperate section for each issue is a good one, also I like they way that they setup a table to compare versions. Do you find this helpful? - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 04:06, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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