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Hi Malleus,
I'm sorry your time was wasted on a premature GA call for John Struthers (anatomist). However, the kerfuffle stirred me back into life on the matter. I have moved much of the whale tale to Tay Whale, and have done a bit of work on Struthers. As I'm more of a natural historian than a biographer (i.e. a total newbie in that department), I wonder if you could spare a moment to have a quick look at it, and tell me what I ought to do to it to get it up to standard?
That would be really kind of you. All the best Chiswick Chap ( talk) 10:32, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Professionalism and civility and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—
Thanks, Alanscottwalker ( talk) 14:07, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks again for the great help on Franz Kafka. User:Sarastro1 should complete a review and copyedit of the article today or tomorrow. I was wondering if you would like to take another look at it. It'd be greatly appreciated. PumpkinSky talk 02:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Nothing to do with the ArbCom nonsense, or any other of the surrounding crap, just real life commitments. "I'll be back". Malleus Fatuorum 22:06, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for wrapping up the GA review on John V.A. MacMurray. If only all reviews were so expeditious! Enjoy your time outside. It's better out there anyway. Homunculus ( duihua) 16:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Manuel Marques de Sousa, Count of Porto Alegre was promoted. I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your aid. Certainly, if it weren't for you the article wouldn't look as good as it does now. Thank you very much, Malleus. -- Lecen ( talk) 09:51, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus, keeping in mind your comments at the FAC for Oerip Soemohardjo, would you mind looking at Sudirman before I go to FAC? Hopefully the prose issues aren't too terrible. — Crisco 1492 ( talk) 05:01, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback on the Woodstock Library article. Happy to address your concerns ASAP. Would you mind perhaps striking or capping resolved concerns so it is easier to differentiate between resolved and unresolved problems? Your time and assistance is much appreciated--I look forward to having an improved article to showcase to MCL staff. -- Another Believer ( Talk) 13:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I will be needing another GA reviewer. That sure didn't go as planned... Please let me know if any of your concerns related to the article still need to be addressed. Thanks so your assistance. -- Another Believer ( Talk) 00:04, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
I fixed the two issues you brought up here, even though the first was referenced with three different sources. Till 03:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus
Thanks for contributing to Gibraltar F.C., we're doing a project in Gibraltar at the moment to help improve the articles, here
Mrjohncummings ( talk) 09:22, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
You are most welcome to copyedit Koutoubia Mosque before it hits the front page..♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:13, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, as the DYK consensus on the Gibraltar hooks was to promote no more than one per day, I had to revert your promotion of Rosia Bay to Prep 3 since Gibraltar F.C. was already in Prep 2. I'm about to do so again, although you haven't been doing it correctly. Please do not continue; if you wish to discuss this, I've already opened a subtopic in the Gibraltar section. BlueMoonset ( talk) 14:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Please go look at the DYK section on these promotions. Down at the bottom, I think there's some confusion. Please. — Maile66 ( talk) 14:29, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello MF. Regarding your reverting the IP here [2]. The IP was on one of those mild vandalism sprees where they were making seemingly innocuous changes to dates and cities etc all of which were inaccurate. I reverted the others but I have a question about this one. In the infobox the birth year is c. 1572 but it is 1573 in the death date template. Is that a mistake? Or is it something to do for using "circa" for the birth year. I hadn't encountered anything like it before and I wanted to find out in case I come across something like it in the future. Thanks for your time. MarnetteD | Talk 18:09, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. What was your rationnale for reverting my edit on this page. I thought it was uncontroversial. The phrase "but not official recognition of their political status" seems to me to be POV, in that it assumes that they were, or should have been considered to be, political prisoners. The very slight re-phrasing removed that implication and seems to me more neutral. Jay-W ( talk) 21:16, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Truthkeeper just posted a support at the FAC, and included some comments, one of which is about the lead. Since you worked on it, I was wondering if you could give me your opinion. My reflex would be to merge the short first para with the second, and move the second sentence further down, to place it in chronological order, but Jim's support seems to have been conditional on three paras in the lead so I don't really want to do that. Can you take a look? Perhaps the lead could expand slightly, to allow that merge but still have three paras? Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 11:20, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Re [3] - let me know if I'm stepping on any toes and causing unnecessary edit conflicts. Volunteer Marek 21:25, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Apologies, I pasted the translated de tag into the article instead of the talk page by accident. Hope there isn't any major edit conflict. It's clearly based on a de wiki translation (even the etymology section has its own tiny paragraph at the end) and the author didn't credit them. I've notified the writer. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:11, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, and also the date is unclear as the Boston Museum started reporting on it in 1933. I think the 1936 is actually the publication date, I might be wrong though. The nominator says he is "discouraged" at the moment. I'll try to look into it but I couldn't find much in google books beyond the snippets and a lot of sources for some reason have errors when you click them. JSTOR only has two articles, one the article used and another which I believe is some sort of copy of the other. it has occurred to me though that different spelling might pick up more, the German name for instance..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:28, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
1935 I'd go with, I also saw 1935 in another snippet.. I've picked something up under the other spelling which the Germans use but damned server went funny on me as I was about to save. I'll try again shortly.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:15, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
I just had a quick look at this, and thought the use of "spolium, spolia" looks a bit odd to me:
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Haldraper ( talk) 09:15, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I can totally see where you're coming from with that DYK/GA stuff, and I can totally understand why you edited where you did. It's not from an interest in DYKs, it's just from that overwhelming compulsion to clean the damned stuff up ... In Real Life, I find my ability simply to read something in print, without trying to hit an edit button and polish it up, has significantly diminished! Everything I read, I'm reading with half an eye on how it should be copy-edited, lol! Pesky ( talk) 08:18, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus. I mentioned you at User talk:Cunard#RfA 2 regarding two edits I made to Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Σ and its talk page. Those two edits have been contested on my talk page, and I would be grateful to hear your thoughts about the matter. Cunard ( talk) 16:35, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your GA suggestions and corrections. I have responded on the article's talk page. Nightscream ( talk) 17:30, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I've reviewed Coral Island here and left some very minor nit-picks before passing. Sarastro1 ( talk) 23:06, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Please don't tell other editors to "fuck off" [4] Nobody Ent 10:24, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Please don't tell me not to tell other editors to fuck off when they deserve it. Malleus Fatuorum 13:08, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
In general, yes, I'll take commentary from editors who've accomplished something, but some whippersnapper, like in the ban plump Jack discussion, not so much. I'm probably getting old. Speaking of old: I've been trying to help out closing old RfCs. That's a thankless job, and that's where we need some admins, not in fighting vandals. Drmies ( talk) 04:09, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't believe in reporting 3RR for ce edits (or most other edits), and I typically would let a revert by you stand on an article where I am not the major contributor. A lot of this is subjective. I am not quite sure what you were fixing for that "Phillips" reference in The Coral Island; the net effect was to revert one of my not-so-interesting ce edits. Churn and change ( talk) 17:56, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, following this edit, I looked into AutomaticStrikeout's RfA. I see you've made a total of 23 edits to the RfA, which is 10 more that even the candidate ( link for ease). As I believe a number of these edits have been verging on disruption, I believe you have made your point on the candidate and I believe it is fairly clear from the comments that they are unlikely to pass, but rather get good feedback, I am enacting this remedy. Please do not participate further in this RfA. Should you believe I am involved in this case as I have already voted neutral on the RfA or for any other reason, I am willing to have this decision reviewed. WormTT( talk) 18:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
I've requested clarification on or an amendment of the arbcom remedy here. -— Isarra ༆ 23:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Hey, it seems you have potential. Also, Beeblebrox is much better than me and I only just bested Bbb23. This is a fun tool to run, though it'd be more fun if it added expletives. Drmies ( talk) 02:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
There has been editing warring at today's RfA over a personal attack against you. There is a discussion at ANI. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:47, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Baah. (Is that what an English-speaking sheep says?) (Or: I'm remarkably good!) Drmies ( talk) 18:06, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
"The hotel has been run by the Lloyds and Coopers since 1984; Judith Cooper and her daughter are the chief chefs.Who are the Lloyds? The infobox says the establishment is owned by Michael and Judith Cooper. And apart from the awkwardness of "chief chefs", my understanding is that chefs generally manage kitchens, they don't actually do much, if any, of the cooking. Malleus Fatuorum 23:19, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Strong objections to sfn notes at Wikipedia:Peer review/Joseph Grimaldi/archive1. "Not user friendly" apparently. Of course normal referencing so is...♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:16, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I would like to ask for your opinion on a simple topic—no real work involved for you. I'm merely looking for your best advice.
I've been cleaning up the biographies of U.S. Olympic swimmers from the 1940s, '50s and '60s, slightly fewer than half of whom are women. Most of these women competed under their maiden names (before they were married), and those are the names by which they are most commonly known from their days of Olympic notability. Consequently, the maiden names are also typically the names used for the Wikipedia article titles. Virtually all of these women eventually married, some more than once, a small handful three or more times. Very few of them formally hyphenated their maiden and husbands' names.
My question is this: What is the best way to present the maiden and married names within the article? I have already added the married names to the persondata template for search purposes, but despite my experimentation, I have not been able to arrive at a formula for presenting the bolded married names in the lead, infobox or main body text which does not seem awkward. The MOS is not particularly helpful on point. Given your GA and FA background, I'm hoping you have some helpful advice to offer. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 00:40, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
{{ Footer USA Swimming 1964 Summer Olympics}}
Most of the articles are currently stubs or starts, and about a third of them are newly created. Several have more substance. All follow the same pattern of standardized infobox and sections. As the articles get fleshed out, more personal background is being added beyond the simple recounting of their Olympic and other international competition history. I believe this group from 1964 is a representative sample covering the other 300+ Olympic female swimmers spanning 1912–2012. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 01:05, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to participate in my RfA. I hope that I will be able to improve based on the feedback I received and become a better editor. Automatic Strikeout 02:31, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Brilliant. And thanks for the review, its been one of the best I've had. I keep adding to all of my GA listed brewery articles: Boddingtons, John Smith's Brewery etc etc. On that point, could you direct me to the Edinburgh Jazz Festival reference? Finally, do you mind if I just delete the Chisholm factoid? Farrtj ( talk) 23:08, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus I can see from the article history that you've had some input on this article (which is TFA) in the past. I have some concerns about it that I've begun to raise at the article talk page. If you have any expertise on the questions, I'd be grateful for your input. On the broader issue, I do wonder about showcasing older FAs on Main Page, but I'll take that up on Raul's talk page to see if my idea has any currency (could be a PEREN) before floating it at a project talk page. Cheers, -- Dweller ( talk) 10:44, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
See Tomcat has nommed this for FAC without telling anybody... Article is short for an FA but I can honestly say I think its about as good as it could be given the lack of wide coverage on it. I do know of similar length/obscure topics which have passed at a similar length previously but I'm not convinced.I think its premature, at least without a discussion...♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:57, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-10-15/Op-ed -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 12:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Missed the review. Replied and watchlisted now. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:41, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
OK. I suspended the review because Volunteer Marek was doing some work on the article and we'd started to edit conflict. I'll get back to it later. Malleus Fatuorum 16:49, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I respect that, enough that I've been quite vocal about it. I agree that his activity was inappropriate, but there are shades of gray here. Perhaps I'm sympathetic to admin candidates that aren't exceptional at writing prose but have other talents. In no way do I think your vote should be invalidated, or that your concerns are petty, I just think that all admin candidates are going to have weaknesses, holes in their skills, and that is an easy one to fix. But obviously I respect your opinion, enough to engage. It was just my opinion that your wording was a bit stronger than the actual circumstances. It is plagiarism, but it wasn't malicious, and to me, intent (as demonstrated by the immediate use of the actual source) matters. I'm saddened that the next person seemed to take so much offense, since I was discounting the concern, only qualifying it.
Had I thought you wouldn't have felt comfortable engaging in a comment or two, I would not have replied and put you in that position. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm just too ignorant. (Plus I'm a little sleepy, haha.) I thought I was doing it correctly; thanks for cleaning it up. Hey, whenever you move on to your next project, you'll see that you have to do some cleanup there as well... Drmies ( talk) 03:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm thoroughly disgusted by what's going on at this kangaroo court, and I would urge any honest editors reading this page to offer an opinion. Malleus Fatuorum 06:00, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Sadly, Black Kite seems to have retired.
TParis has taken a leave of absence, following an editor (not blocked) musing about his murder, aloud.
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 13:35, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
The back-and-forth at the request is dragging the whole thing off-topic from the original intent, which heats everyone up = Not A Good ThingTM. My suggestion, as an AC Clerk, is to take a step back, relax, and use wordings that get your point across while being civil. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 10:34, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus! I'm wondering why it is that you get to put comments on Laura's talk page, as you did at that QPQ barnstarring, but mine are wiped out within minutes. Not fair. One looks to her, as vice president of WMAu, for leadership and examples of best-practice editing. This is what I went in search of, to be rebutted. :-( Tony (talk) 10:36, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
I have posted a motion regarding you at the Clarifications and Amendment discussion. SirFozzie ( talk) 15:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Could you edit your comment to remove the implication that I am accused of plagiarism? I think you have me confused with QuiteUnusual. I think you mistook what I was saying anyway, I think what Unusual did was copyright infringement on the non-public domain sources, I was rebutting Dennis Brown's assertion that it wasn't copyright infringement, but merely some kind of issue of editing style. I was asked about our exchange on my RfA and there's a fairly large expansion of my rationale there if you want to read it. Gigs ( talk) 18:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I don't want to ban you. Honestly, I don't. If you honestly say something like, "I disagree, but I will try to moderate my intemperate attacks in the future. I just ask for some leeway, as this will be difficult", then I'd rescind the ban motion right now. But you seem to believe that there's nothing wrong with the comments you've made, and that you have a right and duty to refer to people in such terms whenever you see fit. I disagree. The pillars of Wikipedia disagree. I am extending this olive branch one more time. You have options here. Try to moderate your behavior and continue the good work you've done here, or continue down this path, and we all know how this will end. SirFozzie ( talk) 19:23, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
At Wikimedia Medicine we'll be working with subject-matter experts, helping them write GA and FA quality medical articles, and then using Translators Without Borders to translate them into third world languages. We'll need high quality editors to work with the professors, coaching them in the Wiki way. I was wondering if you might be interested in helping out there once we're up and running. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 19:36, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
You've got a bit on your plate right now - hopefully a ploughman's lunch - but I thought I might ask your opinion on something. WM:MED's mission is
To make clear, reliable, comprehensive, up-to-date educational resources and information in the biomedical and related social sciences freely available to all people in the language of their choice.
Reliable. Presently on Wikipedia, though our med articles are often impressive, they are not reliable, because of the "anyone can edit" model. So we at WM:MED have set a goal that is incompatible with the current practice at Wikipedia.
The first model at WM:MED that I'll be proposing is scholarly peer review of our (WM:MED's) articles. That is: written by topic experts aided by Wikimedians, and then reviewed/revised by three independent topic experts, and experienced GA/FA reviewers. We publish (at WM:MED, in many languages) the finished, dated, locked article, and anyone - en.WP, de.WP, ethiopia.WP - can use it as they wish.
But I would like the top Google result (usually en.WP in English searches) to be reliable. I think "reliable" is something Wikipedia should and can achieve, at least for its medical content. I'd like to see a link, at the top of every Wikipedia med article (that has passed scholarly peer review) to the peer-reviewed version. Something like
This article was reviewed/updated by three independent topic experts on 20 October 2012. To read that version of the article, click here.
What do you think, and do you think it would ever fly at en.WP? -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 09:32, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
It's bad enough that RfA dwellers miscite WP:Point because they are upset that somebody exhibits a counter-example to their falsehood, but AGK (at the latest lynching attempt)?
Shouldn't such incompetence result in immediate disqualification or a recall? (Apart from the obvious concerns about dishonesty, etc.)
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 22:55, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello,
do you think that Themes in Fyodor Dostoyevsky's writings is too long for the main article or was the split a good idea? Regards.-- Tomcat ( 7) 09:38, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for a first oppose against a main stream, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 22:22, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus, fwiw, I'm only coming up to speed on this. Have been fighting my own battles in the past two days (ironically because of copyright issues) and haven't been keeping up. Just finished work across the ocean and find this! I missed the discussion to ban Jack too because I don't have the drama boards on watch - but even though it's fairly well known that he and I aren't ardent admirer's of each other - I didn't like seeing a community ban enacted so swiftly. My advice to you, and you can tell me to fuck off (I can take it!), is to sit tight, watch what the community has to say, and try very hard not to burn any bridges tonight. The night is still young in America and not even night on the other side of the world. This is going way way to fast in my view. Again take this for whatever it's worth. Truthkeeper ( talk) 23:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
I've proposed that ArbCom members be removed at the next election by a plurality.
I've further proposed the removal of JClemens, AGK, and Hersfeld, as soon as the votes are counted. This would limit the damage done by them in 2012. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 17:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I've made a template you may find useful:
Yomangani talk 22:58, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
... is living well, they say. As you will probably still want an outlet for your muse, please note that the OED is looking for volunteers to help them with the history of such phrases. See OED appeals, where they currently want to know more about the "blue-arsed fly", for example. As another opportunity, I recently noticed that an old friend of mine is one of the top reviewers on Amazon. If you are sent down for six months, as currently seems likely, please investigate such opportunities and then report back to tell us how feisty volunteers are managed in these other places. Warden ( talk) 09:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I don't want to see you banned, nor do I want you to retire, although of course the latter is your choice.
But there are a lot of editors, obviously including several arbitrators, who are concerned at how you sometimes address fellow editors on-wiki. It's not any one comment or set of comments; it's a persistent thing, and even if this wasn't your intent, it has become repeatedly disruptive. You weren't just chosen at random to be the subject of the motion.
Anyone can lose his or her temper, in the heat of a content dispute or a noticeboard dispute or an RfA or whatever, and say something that shouldn't have been said. Anyone can even deliberately decide, once in a blue moon, that it is best to use unusually charged, pungent language. But the whole point of such language is to evince unusually great anger or hostility or frustration. What's the point of doing it every day?
The problem is not that you have called one or two people (I'm deliberately exaggerating this for effect) "sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twats." It's that it feels as if you regularly call people "sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twats", and that you think it's a good thing to call some people "sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twats", and that if you get into a controversy tomorrow you're as likely as not to call someone else a sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twat.
Of course the frustrating thing is that you'll do that right in the midst of helping a newcomer who's trying to figure out an editing problem, reviewing a few GA nominations, and putting in a couple of hours polishing your next FA.
I have worked with my fellow arbitrators for a long time, and I am confident they don't really want to ban you. (No one should ever want to ban anyone from contributing to "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit"; bans are a last resort, though it's always a judgment call when it's necessary to employ that last resort, lest retaining one editor cost us five others.) I think what the arbitrators voting for the motion want, as the proposer has already said, is for you to say you'll make some effort to change your behavior. Not to become Caspar Milquetoast, and not to parrot some imaginary party line (as if we all agreed with each other about everything anyway), and not to change your views about who should or shouldn't become an administrator (although you're still wrong about "immigrated to" and Jeremy Lin).
Just to tone it down a notch already. Or n notches, for some positive value of n. If you agree to do this, maybe I can open a thread in the Civility RfC to quantify n. (I vote for pi-squared-over-six, which is a very cool number. But I digress.)
The civility policy is actually very simple: Editors are expected to be reasonably courteous to each other. There's a good reason this is a policy, though it's obviously not the only policy there is. Do you think it should be a policy? Do you think you've made even a minimal effort to adhere to it? Are you willing to try?
I can readily imagine a Wikipedia in which Malleus Faturoum accomplishes everything he wants to, while softening the sharp edges and incendiary rhetoric that have brought things to where they are now. Can you? Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
I want to appeal to you on the basis of two considerations. First, using aggressive obscenities damages the milieu by suggesting to other editors that it's fine; in a sense, there's a danger of normalising it over time. Second, I quaver at the reaction of many female editors, who are on the whole more likely to take private offence and as we already know favour more strongly than males a harmonious environment; we face a desperate problem in the 90–10 gender split.
πIt's all about context; few people—women, newbies, even the most uppity, sexually repressed person—would fail to enjoy a good joke involving aggressive obscenities (preferably off-wiki, away from FoxNews's prying eyes). But that is not usually the context when you use them, or at least it's not clear that you mean no harm. This "just the way I'm wired" claim is fair on one level, but you're skilful and insightful enough, aren't you, to see that different linguistic registers require different wordings?
I haven't read the arb-case text; but please consider making a pledge to avoid immoderate language. You're too valuable for us to lose, and you'd garner significant respect for making such a pledge. Maybe the arbs might be swayed by it, too. Please remember, also, that on a wiki, ANI and arbcom are not about truth or justice, but about keeping the game afloat. Tony (talk) 03:39, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
It's the wee hours of the morning for you (heck, it's the wee hours of the morning for me and we're 5 time zones apart), and historically this has been the period where you've had the greatest challenges in maintaining decorum, so I don't want to press you for any responses now. I do urge you to give some thought to the postings of those whom you respect here (and hopefully the arbitrators who have posted here as well, if one or more of us don't fall into the first category), but more importantly, take care of the person behind the Malleus moniker first and get some rest. Risker ( talk) 05:32, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, you and I don't see eye to eye all the time, but I have a great deal of respect for you. People often lump you together with trolls because your method of interacting with other uses veers too often into the less than stellar areas of insulting people's (perceived lack of) intelligence and calling people names. However while I wish that you would stop doing that, I've come to recongize that you're not a troll, but someone who is deeply intellectually honest and tells it how it is, you just happen to do so in a way that people view as inappropriate. That you've become the community punching bag, that you're viewed as the free target that people can poke at to get a rise out of, and that this feeds into a vicious cycle in which a person that's long been jaded becomes even more jaded, is a tragedy.
While I don't believe that a history of positive contributions should excuse a history of inappropriate behavior, I do believe that it is important to account for the distinction between your incivility and base trolling. In short, to be honest, I do believe that you've gone too far, too often, and that if it doesn't stop, you need to spend some time away from the project. I also believe that you are smart enough to be able to avoid continuing to fall into this trap. You've been wronged a number of times over the course of this project, however fighting to correct these issues is not a role you can play if you continue this confrontational and abrasive attitude. You've become the figurehead for incivility, and your voice doesn't carry the authority that's needed to successful point out the issues this process faces because of that. Too many people discard your thoughts because you're the one making them.
The solution then, is to give the faction that's after you nothing; cut the incivility down to zero, give them nothing to use against you. The less fodder you give your enemies, the weaker their arguments become, and the more obvious that at least some people are after you because you're you. If you leave, nothing changes. If you're banned, nothing changes. If you really want to improve the toxic culture of this project, to combat hypocrisy, vindictiveness, petty actions, give the people behind those petty actions nothing to work with and then watch with silent glee as they lose their positions of respect by trying to grind out something out of nothing. It's an endeavor I wish you luck in. In short, take NYB's offer.
Anyways, feel free to take this as you wish. I've tried to be as honest and straightforward as I can be. I believe that this is the best advice I can give. What you do from here on out is up to you, and I suppose, ArbCom. Best of luck in your endeavors. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:58, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I know you already figured this for yourself but if there are people who are out to get you (and I can see why you think that), then they are claiming the support both of the people who really are offended at your choice of epithet, and also of the larger number who are concerned about the effect this has on other people. Your own words are being used as a stick to beat you. But you're not Ozzie Osbourne (who seems to have been only left with the swear words, poor chap), or someone with only a few words in their vocabulary. You should be smart enough to outsmart them - cleaning up the taproom language will better highlight the legitimacy of your criticism. I don't know what tactic would work for you - I cuss a lot at the screen, others use milder epithets or the made up swear words from Porridge or Farscape, others avoid responding immediately (write it but leave it in preview for ten minutes), or leave it alone till later if they feel the ire rising, or craft a reply in another application, then write the clean version into the edit window. You can come and cuss at me if you like - I said right at the start (if you recall, a certain party accused me of being a cowgirl (??) for saying it) that I would always try to untangle the underlying complaint from the language it was expressed in. Whatever works for you. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 11:27, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, if you want to take a couple of days to think things through, I will use my best efforts to make sure that nothing happens in the interim. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The committee is not homogeneous. One of the reasons I ran again was a need for someone who actually writes content to be on the damn committee. I've tried pointing out percentages etc. elsewhere. I'm tired and this is fucked. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 13:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I wanted to let you know that I'm disgusted at the arbitration bollocks. There is a meet up in Machester today, if you would like to attend, I would love to buy you a pint. In fact, I would personally see to it that you glass (and that of your good lady should she wish to join us) never run dry. I am truly sorry for the state of this encyclopaedia. WormTT( talk) 07:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus. I see that four Committee members have reached out to you regarding this current situation. I note that none of the four, currently, are voting to ban you. But I am. I thought you might want to know why. We've never had a problem you and I, and I have a lot of respect for you - indeed, I recommend you to others when there is GA review or a bit of copy-editing to be done which requires a bit more than the average thought and skill. So I am not voting to ban you because I dislike you, nor because I think you are useless.
Wikipedia is not the community, it's the encyclopaedia - and that is what matters, and what comes first. But we need a community in order to discuss how to shape the encyclopaedia and move it forward. The community as well as providing a means of communication, planning and discussion on how to shape and move forward the encyclopaedia, also provides encouragement, advice, lessons, motivation, etc. A positive, supportive, encouraging, enabling, collaborative community can do wonders - and since being involved in Wikipedia I've been impressed and proud of how this community (one of the world's newest, taking advantage of all the lessons learned since mankind first formed societies) has formed its rules and guidelines. I think some our core rules and guidelines are models of how all societies could be run - Assume good faith, Consensus, etc. The sense that the community runs itself - there is no authority - we decide from within by consensus. We are a young community and are still growing. We still make mistakes and have much to learn. But we move forward with a positive intent - assuming good faith, and doing things by consensus. We are assailed from without by moaners and doubters, attacked by vandals, and are undermined from within by moaners and doubters, POV pushers, ego-trippers, bad eggs, and disruptive users. Yet we improve and go on.
So we have a community that has flaws, and has its attackers and doubters, but is at heart very sound, and is at heart the heart of Wikipedia. We are the community - you and I, and all the others who have commented on this page and on the ArbCom page: the good, the bad, the ugly, those you agree with, and those you disagree with. Whatever our status, and however you or I regard each other or any of the others, we all have roughly the same aim - to build and improve the encyclopaedia.
Now, when someone's conduct is such that they are destabilising the community, it causes me concern. When the community is concentrating on an individual's quarrels and attitudes rather than building the encyclopaedia, then that causes me concern. When an individual's language and attitude are hostile (for whatever reason) it causes me concern not just because it distracts the community from building the encyclopaedia, but because of the chilling effect that hostility has, not just on the person to whom it is used, but also on those listening in. There are many people who when they walk into a community, a club, a workplace, a school, a pub, a college or school, and they hear arguments, swearing and shouting, are disquieted. Regardless of the reasons for the argument, they will not be motivated, and they will not be encouraged. Just the fact of a loud argument is unsettling. When they see someone being belittled for a comment they may not even understand, they are worried if they same will happen to them. They are not emboldened to take part in discussions. They are scared off. They are discouraged. It's not just the swear words or the noise, it is the apparent disregard for the other person's dignity. When it is the person them-self who is at the receiving end of the hostility, this is especially discouraging. Sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes people in very good faith say silly things. Sometimes people are not as knowledgeable, as intelligent, as articulate, as tactful, as we would like. So be it. We need to look at the bigger picture, consider the impact of our own conduct, and see what we, who are better, more knowledgeable, more experienced, wiser and older, can do to assist them, and the wider audience.
Often when your name comes up in incidents, there are people, including yourself, who defend your inappropriate conduct and language (let's not pretend it is anything other than that) because you were baited or provoked or otherwise had good reason to be annoyed. You would not be alone in that. Sadly, a large number of Wikipedians have come upon moments that pushed their red mist button. I think this has been common to most (all?) societies, and probably has been throughout time. However, I guess we learn self-restraint, self-control, and we devise a set of rules to help back that up. In your case, you have possibly (I don't know, this is an assumption) not been encouraged to developed self-restraint or to abide by our community's rules, because you have been encouraged in your inappropriate conduct by the users who wish to support you - often well meaning, but perhaps focussing more on your individual contributions, and less on the wider impact. It may well be that you have been harshly treated, and a thorough examination of your Wikipedia history may show that abuse. However, what counts here and now with a motion on the table is that currently you appear to react inappropriately to very small provocation. And that your mode of communication is too often abrupt for some people.
So, I am voting to ban you because I don't want to see the Wikipedia community go down the road of accepting or excusing hostile conduct that discourages other users. I want people who come here to behave themselves, and to encourage others to behave themselves, and to encourage others to take part in building the project; and to take all aspects of their own behaviour into account when considering that encouragement. I don't expect people to be perfect, and I will take provocation into mitigation, as well as positive contributions; but I am concerned when someone's behaviour is not modified after warnings, and especially when under sanction.
I am keen to look at and consider other solutions than a ban, but until a viable solution is proposed, I will continue to support a ban, regardless of how much I respect your work and your dedication. If you can propose a solution yourself, I'll be more than happy to hear it. SilkTork ✔Tea time 18:02, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Why should it just apply to Malleus? Yesterday I was called a "fucktard" by one of your friends Silk and you did nothing to warn him of his incivility. It doesn't seem right to be preaching about civility when you permit your friends to spout their mouths off like that.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
This is far more offensive than anything I've ever seen Malleus ever said, doesn't people like that concern you SilkTork? He's a content contributor, but he's also excused for speaking to me like that?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:17, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
"What matters at this stage is the construction of local forms of community within which civility and the intellectual and moral life can be sustained through the new dark ages which are already upon us. And if the tradition of the virtues was able to survive the horrors of the last dark ages, we are not entirely without grounds for hope. This time however the barbarians are not waiting beyond the frontiers; they have already been governing us for quite some time."
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 23:32, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The latest comment by AGK. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
MONGO seems to be going bongo BONGO:
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
That's a no-no, MONGO — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiefer.Wolfowitz ( talk • contribs) 09:28, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 08:48, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
As you are probably aware, WP:NPA is a policy. This edit violates that policy. I suggest you retract it. I also suggest you apologise. As you probably also know, repeated violation of policies can lead to blocks. -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 21:20, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
The Brilliant Idea Barnstar | |
Wait--you were blocked for insulting MONGO? Well, now, that's a terrible thing. Isn't it. Really, Malleus, tsk tsk. I hope you gave him the FU he deserves.
We're talking about that idiot who wants the credit for driving you off, right? If you did, well done. And who was the fool that thought it was a good use of his little tool to block you? I'm not following things anymore: I looked at the ArbCom shit yesterday or the day before and right now I don't give a good goddamn about this whole project. Take it easy, and please give my regards to Mrs. Malleus. Drmies ( talk) 23:20, 21 October 2012 (UTC) |
Hello, Malleus
As a party involved in the 2nd WP:FAC of Microsoft Security Essentials, you might be willing to participate in Wikipedia:Featured article review/Microsoft Security Essentials/archive1.
Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 08:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
, but you should read the
guide to appealing blocks first. -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 21:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Pedro? Quién? Elen, I was referring to your (Arbcom) collective apparel, not suggesting that you, personally, were given to ornamental knickers. Matadors do not traditionally wear protection in the southern region, but Arbcom seems to. At least JClemens seems to think he is invulnerable. But you have made your feelings known elsewhere, this was just a wardrobe issue here. pablo 23:15, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello Malleus Fatuorum. I mentioned you in a discussion here. I'd like to present an idea to you for consideration. If you believe the idea has any merit whatsoever, it would be great if you helped me develop it, or at least agree to support its potential. If not, you can tell me how foolish it is to your satisfaction, or you can dismiss the notion out of hand. I hope you will agree to hear me further and await guidance from you. Thanks - 76Strat String da Broke da ( talk) 01:17, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I made sometime ago a major update in a FA called Honório Hermeto Carneiro Leão, Marquis of Paraná. Many sentences were changes to better suit the newer and improved sources used in the article. However, I want to be sure that the article still looks good enough to be a FA. I wonder, if you have time and interest, if you could take a look at it and make any needed improvements? In case you are willing, the only request I make is not to increase the number of paragraphs. Regards, -- Lecen ( talk) 02:18, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
At the schools I went to as a youngster it was quite commonplace that the school bully or one of his acolytes would challenge you to a fight outside the school gates when school was over. Was that a uniquely Scottish custom? Malleus Fatuorum 21:19, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
( edit conflict)I wasn't allowed the choice: my father was vicar and chairman of the board of governors and teacher at my infants and juniors, so there was no escaping his decree that I must "turn the other cheek". Whichever way I turned I'd be shunned at school or at home! Which would you choose? Mind you, if I knew then what I know now ect. [sic]; I wasn't bullied at big school, I believe because no-one knew my father was a vicar – make of that what you will. Nortonius ( talk) 22:19, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Your block log is mentioned here: User talk:Nobody Ent/block log Nobody Ent 20:53, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
And another courtesy notice re the proposed topic ban (motion 2, currently passing) - I've posed seven scenarios at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Questions from Bencherlite that I think the topic ban would cover, asking the arbs to check that my understanding of the coverage is correct (and if not to clarify the wording if possible) to avoid as many problems as possible later under the law of unintended consequences. I've alerted Courcelles as the original drafter of motion 2 as well, because I suspect my musings will get buried in the wall of text... Bencherlite Talk 22:42, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Another mention Nobody Ent 14:18, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks once more for taking the time and effort to review the article. Lemonade51 ( talk) 20:47, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the review of SŻ. I know we disagree on references, but please, can you refrain from removing refs from my articles? In the few case where the sentences were combined, sure, there is no need for a ref in the middle if it is at the end of sentences, but after your recent passes there are some potentially controversial parts that look unreferenced. I will give you one example. You removed a reference from te sentence: "As a result of his successful campaign Żółkiewski seized Moscow and captured the tsar Vasiliy Shuyskiy and his brothers, Ivan Shuyskiy and Dmitri Shuyskiy". The capture of those tsars by Ż is a rather controversial event in P-R history, and I would not be surprised if a random Russian passerby tagged it as requiring a cite. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 23:30, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Hopefully you won't leave us - and hopefully you still have my email and the one I have for you won't change. However, I also know that putting things off can lead to regrets, and there were two things that I feel we never finished talking about - so I thought I'd offer replies that I should have at the time.
Well, I don't know what it will be like a week or a month from now - but I hope you are still contributing your abilities here. But no matter what, more than that, I hope that you and your wife are happy and enjoying life. You're a person I greatly admire and respect. Your honesty and integrity are truly inspiring to anyone who chooses to observe. Best of luck in all Malleus. — Ched : ? 06:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I know you're busy but if you're interested, I'd like your opinion on this. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 17:24, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I am planning to write an article about SAS veteran/tracker and son of Leeds, "Jungle" Eddie McGee. An article by this name (the winner of the first season of the American version of Big Brother...) already exists. I wonder if you or any of the other esteemed visitors to this talk page have a suggestion for how to name the proposed article? I have considered Eddie McGee (soldier), Eddie McGee (survivalist) and Eddie McGee (tracker) thus far. Keristrasza ( talk) 08:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps back off a bit there? You are getting sucked in and any time now you'll find yourself being played if you are not careful. I know that it is hard to ignore but sometimes it is best. - Sitush ( talk) 15:41, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
And a further "btw" is that I received an email yesterday from one of the regular Indic article contributors. Basically, a greetings card type of thing relating to Dashahra (the Hindu harvest festival equivalent), it included a Burke quote: "Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little." I already knew of the one that you mentioned above but the similarity is evident. I presume either bowdlerisation or, more likely, that Burke was more consistent than some of those who fly the aforementioned userbox! - Sitush ( talk) 16:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for a very helpful c/e of the SŻ article. Have some tea on me! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:13, 24 October 2012 (UTC) |
Hello there. I've heard you're an excellent copy editor. Thanks for helping others with your skill. I had someone with an English degree take a look at DVT, and I've taken their suggestions, but perhaps you can make sure the English is brilliant and comment at Wikipedia:Peer review/Deep vein thrombosis/archive3? Thanks for your time. Biosthmors ( talk) 15:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar | |
For all your great and amazing content work. ArbCom madness apart, I hope you are having a relative good time (excuse me if I am a little naive). I just wish you the best :). — ΛΧΣ 21™ 15:07, 25 October 2012 (UTC) |
Above, you wrote "At the schools I went to as a youngster... Was that a uniquely Scottish custom?" I hadn't realised that you were possibly one of the Salted Porridge Brigade. This means, of course, that I now hear only Peter Capaldi/Malcolm Tucker's voice when I read your comments. It is delicious good fun. Keristrasza ( talk) 06:45, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus - how the hell are you? I see from the Arbcom noticeboard that your campaign to reduce the ennui and apathy that usually greets the elections is having some success - well done indeed. I haven't read any of the doubtless riveting background material and don't intend to. It would perhaps all be rather funny if it weren't also obvious that there is genuine ill-feeling and suffering involved. It's all grist to the mill I suppose and useful evidence for some bright young thing's forthcoming PhD on " attachment theory in on-line relationships" or similar.
I have a notion that Origins of the Uí Ímair and the Earls of Orkney is a possible GAN. However, it is not in mainspace yet as I am a little worried that the final summary, although cited line-by-line is a possible technical breach of WP:SYNTH in that I have never seen a published overview of these hypotheses (although the authorities do of course mention the existence of different approaches). Any input would be welcome. Ben Mac Dui 13:35, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Irrespective of the offense you took to the observation I made in my prior message (which I intended to convey with a somewhat facetious tone), I really don't think you want to close a GA review for reasons as petty as you seemed to indicate, since it would probably not reflect well upon you as a GA reviewer. The assertion with you tried to pass off as justification for doing so, that I did not have any intention of addressing the issues you raised, is obviously false, since I responded to every single issue you raised, and implemented the ones that seemed reasonable. To close the review on this basis just over a day after your previous message to me (when it took me a week to respond to your October 15 message), makes it seem rather transparent what your true basis for that action is, don't you think? Are you sure you don't want to reconsider this? Nightscream ( talk) 05:46, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Sorry if my removal of the old template was not the right procedure. I thought perhaps it was what had to be done in order to renominate the article, a conclusion I reached in error in part due AirCorn's advice regarding the GA2. There was no need for the accusatory tone in your revert's edit summary. In any event, take care. Nightscream ( talk) 23:45, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello Malleus. It seems there are those that like to put a leash around your neck. (How stupid!) Pesky is always talking about wisdom of animals; when was a kid, we (dad, brother & I) were in the woods & came across a racoon caught in a muskrat trap; the coon had been in process of knawing its own hand off, in order to free itself. (We freed it, of course.) The experience made big impression on me. Ihardlythinkso ( talk) 11:56, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
In case you're interested. User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Do_we_need_.27Did_you_know.27_anyway.3F -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 12:57, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hi Malleus,
I'm sorry your time was wasted on a premature GA call for John Struthers (anatomist). However, the kerfuffle stirred me back into life on the matter. I have moved much of the whale tale to Tay Whale, and have done a bit of work on Struthers. As I'm more of a natural historian than a biographer (i.e. a total newbie in that department), I wonder if you could spare a moment to have a quick look at it, and tell me what I ought to do to it to get it up to standard?
That would be really kind of you. All the best Chiswick Chap ( talk) 10:32, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Professionalism and civility and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—
Thanks, Alanscottwalker ( talk) 14:07, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks again for the great help on Franz Kafka. User:Sarastro1 should complete a review and copyedit of the article today or tomorrow. I was wondering if you would like to take another look at it. It'd be greatly appreciated. PumpkinSky talk 02:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Nothing to do with the ArbCom nonsense, or any other of the surrounding crap, just real life commitments. "I'll be back". Malleus Fatuorum 22:06, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for wrapping up the GA review on John V.A. MacMurray. If only all reviews were so expeditious! Enjoy your time outside. It's better out there anyway. Homunculus ( duihua) 16:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Manuel Marques de Sousa, Count of Porto Alegre was promoted. I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your aid. Certainly, if it weren't for you the article wouldn't look as good as it does now. Thank you very much, Malleus. -- Lecen ( talk) 09:51, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus, keeping in mind your comments at the FAC for Oerip Soemohardjo, would you mind looking at Sudirman before I go to FAC? Hopefully the prose issues aren't too terrible. — Crisco 1492 ( talk) 05:01, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback on the Woodstock Library article. Happy to address your concerns ASAP. Would you mind perhaps striking or capping resolved concerns so it is easier to differentiate between resolved and unresolved problems? Your time and assistance is much appreciated--I look forward to having an improved article to showcase to MCL staff. -- Another Believer ( Talk) 13:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I will be needing another GA reviewer. That sure didn't go as planned... Please let me know if any of your concerns related to the article still need to be addressed. Thanks so your assistance. -- Another Believer ( Talk) 00:04, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
I fixed the two issues you brought up here, even though the first was referenced with three different sources. Till 03:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus
Thanks for contributing to Gibraltar F.C., we're doing a project in Gibraltar at the moment to help improve the articles, here
Mrjohncummings ( talk) 09:22, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
You are most welcome to copyedit Koutoubia Mosque before it hits the front page..♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:13, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, as the DYK consensus on the Gibraltar hooks was to promote no more than one per day, I had to revert your promotion of Rosia Bay to Prep 3 since Gibraltar F.C. was already in Prep 2. I'm about to do so again, although you haven't been doing it correctly. Please do not continue; if you wish to discuss this, I've already opened a subtopic in the Gibraltar section. BlueMoonset ( talk) 14:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Please go look at the DYK section on these promotions. Down at the bottom, I think there's some confusion. Please. — Maile66 ( talk) 14:29, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello MF. Regarding your reverting the IP here [2]. The IP was on one of those mild vandalism sprees where they were making seemingly innocuous changes to dates and cities etc all of which were inaccurate. I reverted the others but I have a question about this one. In the infobox the birth year is c. 1572 but it is 1573 in the death date template. Is that a mistake? Or is it something to do for using "circa" for the birth year. I hadn't encountered anything like it before and I wanted to find out in case I come across something like it in the future. Thanks for your time. MarnetteD | Talk 18:09, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. What was your rationnale for reverting my edit on this page. I thought it was uncontroversial. The phrase "but not official recognition of their political status" seems to me to be POV, in that it assumes that they were, or should have been considered to be, political prisoners. The very slight re-phrasing removed that implication and seems to me more neutral. Jay-W ( talk) 21:16, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Truthkeeper just posted a support at the FAC, and included some comments, one of which is about the lead. Since you worked on it, I was wondering if you could give me your opinion. My reflex would be to merge the short first para with the second, and move the second sentence further down, to place it in chronological order, but Jim's support seems to have been conditional on three paras in the lead so I don't really want to do that. Can you take a look? Perhaps the lead could expand slightly, to allow that merge but still have three paras? Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 11:20, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Re [3] - let me know if I'm stepping on any toes and causing unnecessary edit conflicts. Volunteer Marek 21:25, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Apologies, I pasted the translated de tag into the article instead of the talk page by accident. Hope there isn't any major edit conflict. It's clearly based on a de wiki translation (even the etymology section has its own tiny paragraph at the end) and the author didn't credit them. I've notified the writer. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:11, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, and also the date is unclear as the Boston Museum started reporting on it in 1933. I think the 1936 is actually the publication date, I might be wrong though. The nominator says he is "discouraged" at the moment. I'll try to look into it but I couldn't find much in google books beyond the snippets and a lot of sources for some reason have errors when you click them. JSTOR only has two articles, one the article used and another which I believe is some sort of copy of the other. it has occurred to me though that different spelling might pick up more, the German name for instance..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:28, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
1935 I'd go with, I also saw 1935 in another snippet.. I've picked something up under the other spelling which the Germans use but damned server went funny on me as I was about to save. I'll try again shortly.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:15, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
I just had a quick look at this, and thought the use of "spolium, spolia" looks a bit odd to me:
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Haldraper ( talk) 09:15, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I can totally see where you're coming from with that DYK/GA stuff, and I can totally understand why you edited where you did. It's not from an interest in DYKs, it's just from that overwhelming compulsion to clean the damned stuff up ... In Real Life, I find my ability simply to read something in print, without trying to hit an edit button and polish it up, has significantly diminished! Everything I read, I'm reading with half an eye on how it should be copy-edited, lol! Pesky ( talk) 08:18, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus. I mentioned you at User talk:Cunard#RfA 2 regarding two edits I made to Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Σ and its talk page. Those two edits have been contested on my talk page, and I would be grateful to hear your thoughts about the matter. Cunard ( talk) 16:35, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your GA suggestions and corrections. I have responded on the article's talk page. Nightscream ( talk) 17:30, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I've reviewed Coral Island here and left some very minor nit-picks before passing. Sarastro1 ( talk) 23:06, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Please don't tell other editors to "fuck off" [4] Nobody Ent 10:24, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Please don't tell me not to tell other editors to fuck off when they deserve it. Malleus Fatuorum 13:08, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
In general, yes, I'll take commentary from editors who've accomplished something, but some whippersnapper, like in the ban plump Jack discussion, not so much. I'm probably getting old. Speaking of old: I've been trying to help out closing old RfCs. That's a thankless job, and that's where we need some admins, not in fighting vandals. Drmies ( talk) 04:09, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't believe in reporting 3RR for ce edits (or most other edits), and I typically would let a revert by you stand on an article where I am not the major contributor. A lot of this is subjective. I am not quite sure what you were fixing for that "Phillips" reference in The Coral Island; the net effect was to revert one of my not-so-interesting ce edits. Churn and change ( talk) 17:56, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, following this edit, I looked into AutomaticStrikeout's RfA. I see you've made a total of 23 edits to the RfA, which is 10 more that even the candidate ( link for ease). As I believe a number of these edits have been verging on disruption, I believe you have made your point on the candidate and I believe it is fairly clear from the comments that they are unlikely to pass, but rather get good feedback, I am enacting this remedy. Please do not participate further in this RfA. Should you believe I am involved in this case as I have already voted neutral on the RfA or for any other reason, I am willing to have this decision reviewed. WormTT( talk) 18:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
I've requested clarification on or an amendment of the arbcom remedy here. -— Isarra ༆ 23:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Hey, it seems you have potential. Also, Beeblebrox is much better than me and I only just bested Bbb23. This is a fun tool to run, though it'd be more fun if it added expletives. Drmies ( talk) 02:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
There has been editing warring at today's RfA over a personal attack against you. There is a discussion at ANI. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:47, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Baah. (Is that what an English-speaking sheep says?) (Or: I'm remarkably good!) Drmies ( talk) 18:06, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
"The hotel has been run by the Lloyds and Coopers since 1984; Judith Cooper and her daughter are the chief chefs.Who are the Lloyds? The infobox says the establishment is owned by Michael and Judith Cooper. And apart from the awkwardness of "chief chefs", my understanding is that chefs generally manage kitchens, they don't actually do much, if any, of the cooking. Malleus Fatuorum 23:19, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Strong objections to sfn notes at Wikipedia:Peer review/Joseph Grimaldi/archive1. "Not user friendly" apparently. Of course normal referencing so is...♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:16, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I would like to ask for your opinion on a simple topic—no real work involved for you. I'm merely looking for your best advice.
I've been cleaning up the biographies of U.S. Olympic swimmers from the 1940s, '50s and '60s, slightly fewer than half of whom are women. Most of these women competed under their maiden names (before they were married), and those are the names by which they are most commonly known from their days of Olympic notability. Consequently, the maiden names are also typically the names used for the Wikipedia article titles. Virtually all of these women eventually married, some more than once, a small handful three or more times. Very few of them formally hyphenated their maiden and husbands' names.
My question is this: What is the best way to present the maiden and married names within the article? I have already added the married names to the persondata template for search purposes, but despite my experimentation, I have not been able to arrive at a formula for presenting the bolded married names in the lead, infobox or main body text which does not seem awkward. The MOS is not particularly helpful on point. Given your GA and FA background, I'm hoping you have some helpful advice to offer. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 00:40, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
{{ Footer USA Swimming 1964 Summer Olympics}}
Most of the articles are currently stubs or starts, and about a third of them are newly created. Several have more substance. All follow the same pattern of standardized infobox and sections. As the articles get fleshed out, more personal background is being added beyond the simple recounting of their Olympic and other international competition history. I believe this group from 1964 is a representative sample covering the other 300+ Olympic female swimmers spanning 1912–2012. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 01:05, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to participate in my RfA. I hope that I will be able to improve based on the feedback I received and become a better editor. Automatic Strikeout 02:31, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Brilliant. And thanks for the review, its been one of the best I've had. I keep adding to all of my GA listed brewery articles: Boddingtons, John Smith's Brewery etc etc. On that point, could you direct me to the Edinburgh Jazz Festival reference? Finally, do you mind if I just delete the Chisholm factoid? Farrtj ( talk) 23:08, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus I can see from the article history that you've had some input on this article (which is TFA) in the past. I have some concerns about it that I've begun to raise at the article talk page. If you have any expertise on the questions, I'd be grateful for your input. On the broader issue, I do wonder about showcasing older FAs on Main Page, but I'll take that up on Raul's talk page to see if my idea has any currency (could be a PEREN) before floating it at a project talk page. Cheers, -- Dweller ( talk) 10:44, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
See Tomcat has nommed this for FAC without telling anybody... Article is short for an FA but I can honestly say I think its about as good as it could be given the lack of wide coverage on it. I do know of similar length/obscure topics which have passed at a similar length previously but I'm not convinced.I think its premature, at least without a discussion...♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:57, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-10-15/Op-ed -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 12:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Missed the review. Replied and watchlisted now. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:41, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
OK. I suspended the review because Volunteer Marek was doing some work on the article and we'd started to edit conflict. I'll get back to it later. Malleus Fatuorum 16:49, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I respect that, enough that I've been quite vocal about it. I agree that his activity was inappropriate, but there are shades of gray here. Perhaps I'm sympathetic to admin candidates that aren't exceptional at writing prose but have other talents. In no way do I think your vote should be invalidated, or that your concerns are petty, I just think that all admin candidates are going to have weaknesses, holes in their skills, and that is an easy one to fix. But obviously I respect your opinion, enough to engage. It was just my opinion that your wording was a bit stronger than the actual circumstances. It is plagiarism, but it wasn't malicious, and to me, intent (as demonstrated by the immediate use of the actual source) matters. I'm saddened that the next person seemed to take so much offense, since I was discounting the concern, only qualifying it.
Had I thought you wouldn't have felt comfortable engaging in a comment or two, I would not have replied and put you in that position. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm just too ignorant. (Plus I'm a little sleepy, haha.) I thought I was doing it correctly; thanks for cleaning it up. Hey, whenever you move on to your next project, you'll see that you have to do some cleanup there as well... Drmies ( talk) 03:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm thoroughly disgusted by what's going on at this kangaroo court, and I would urge any honest editors reading this page to offer an opinion. Malleus Fatuorum 06:00, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Sadly, Black Kite seems to have retired.
TParis has taken a leave of absence, following an editor (not blocked) musing about his murder, aloud.
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 13:35, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
The back-and-forth at the request is dragging the whole thing off-topic from the original intent, which heats everyone up = Not A Good ThingTM. My suggestion, as an AC Clerk, is to take a step back, relax, and use wordings that get your point across while being civil. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 10:34, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus! I'm wondering why it is that you get to put comments on Laura's talk page, as you did at that QPQ barnstarring, but mine are wiped out within minutes. Not fair. One looks to her, as vice president of WMAu, for leadership and examples of best-practice editing. This is what I went in search of, to be rebutted. :-( Tony (talk) 10:36, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
I have posted a motion regarding you at the Clarifications and Amendment discussion. SirFozzie ( talk) 15:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Could you edit your comment to remove the implication that I am accused of plagiarism? I think you have me confused with QuiteUnusual. I think you mistook what I was saying anyway, I think what Unusual did was copyright infringement on the non-public domain sources, I was rebutting Dennis Brown's assertion that it wasn't copyright infringement, but merely some kind of issue of editing style. I was asked about our exchange on my RfA and there's a fairly large expansion of my rationale there if you want to read it. Gigs ( talk) 18:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I don't want to ban you. Honestly, I don't. If you honestly say something like, "I disagree, but I will try to moderate my intemperate attacks in the future. I just ask for some leeway, as this will be difficult", then I'd rescind the ban motion right now. But you seem to believe that there's nothing wrong with the comments you've made, and that you have a right and duty to refer to people in such terms whenever you see fit. I disagree. The pillars of Wikipedia disagree. I am extending this olive branch one more time. You have options here. Try to moderate your behavior and continue the good work you've done here, or continue down this path, and we all know how this will end. SirFozzie ( talk) 19:23, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
At Wikimedia Medicine we'll be working with subject-matter experts, helping them write GA and FA quality medical articles, and then using Translators Without Borders to translate them into third world languages. We'll need high quality editors to work with the professors, coaching them in the Wiki way. I was wondering if you might be interested in helping out there once we're up and running. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 19:36, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
You've got a bit on your plate right now - hopefully a ploughman's lunch - but I thought I might ask your opinion on something. WM:MED's mission is
To make clear, reliable, comprehensive, up-to-date educational resources and information in the biomedical and related social sciences freely available to all people in the language of their choice.
Reliable. Presently on Wikipedia, though our med articles are often impressive, they are not reliable, because of the "anyone can edit" model. So we at WM:MED have set a goal that is incompatible with the current practice at Wikipedia.
The first model at WM:MED that I'll be proposing is scholarly peer review of our (WM:MED's) articles. That is: written by topic experts aided by Wikimedians, and then reviewed/revised by three independent topic experts, and experienced GA/FA reviewers. We publish (at WM:MED, in many languages) the finished, dated, locked article, and anyone - en.WP, de.WP, ethiopia.WP - can use it as they wish.
But I would like the top Google result (usually en.WP in English searches) to be reliable. I think "reliable" is something Wikipedia should and can achieve, at least for its medical content. I'd like to see a link, at the top of every Wikipedia med article (that has passed scholarly peer review) to the peer-reviewed version. Something like
This article was reviewed/updated by three independent topic experts on 20 October 2012. To read that version of the article, click here.
What do you think, and do you think it would ever fly at en.WP? -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 09:32, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
It's bad enough that RfA dwellers miscite WP:Point because they are upset that somebody exhibits a counter-example to their falsehood, but AGK (at the latest lynching attempt)?
Shouldn't such incompetence result in immediate disqualification or a recall? (Apart from the obvious concerns about dishonesty, etc.)
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 22:55, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello,
do you think that Themes in Fyodor Dostoyevsky's writings is too long for the main article or was the split a good idea? Regards.-- Tomcat ( 7) 09:38, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for a first oppose against a main stream, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 22:22, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus, fwiw, I'm only coming up to speed on this. Have been fighting my own battles in the past two days (ironically because of copyright issues) and haven't been keeping up. Just finished work across the ocean and find this! I missed the discussion to ban Jack too because I don't have the drama boards on watch - but even though it's fairly well known that he and I aren't ardent admirer's of each other - I didn't like seeing a community ban enacted so swiftly. My advice to you, and you can tell me to fuck off (I can take it!), is to sit tight, watch what the community has to say, and try very hard not to burn any bridges tonight. The night is still young in America and not even night on the other side of the world. This is going way way to fast in my view. Again take this for whatever it's worth. Truthkeeper ( talk) 23:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
I've proposed that ArbCom members be removed at the next election by a plurality.
I've further proposed the removal of JClemens, AGK, and Hersfeld, as soon as the votes are counted. This would limit the damage done by them in 2012. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 17:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I've made a template you may find useful:
Yomangani talk 22:58, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
... is living well, they say. As you will probably still want an outlet for your muse, please note that the OED is looking for volunteers to help them with the history of such phrases. See OED appeals, where they currently want to know more about the "blue-arsed fly", for example. As another opportunity, I recently noticed that an old friend of mine is one of the top reviewers on Amazon. If you are sent down for six months, as currently seems likely, please investigate such opportunities and then report back to tell us how feisty volunteers are managed in these other places. Warden ( talk) 09:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I don't want to see you banned, nor do I want you to retire, although of course the latter is your choice.
But there are a lot of editors, obviously including several arbitrators, who are concerned at how you sometimes address fellow editors on-wiki. It's not any one comment or set of comments; it's a persistent thing, and even if this wasn't your intent, it has become repeatedly disruptive. You weren't just chosen at random to be the subject of the motion.
Anyone can lose his or her temper, in the heat of a content dispute or a noticeboard dispute or an RfA or whatever, and say something that shouldn't have been said. Anyone can even deliberately decide, once in a blue moon, that it is best to use unusually charged, pungent language. But the whole point of such language is to evince unusually great anger or hostility or frustration. What's the point of doing it every day?
The problem is not that you have called one or two people (I'm deliberately exaggerating this for effect) "sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twats." It's that it feels as if you regularly call people "sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twats", and that you think it's a good thing to call some people "sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twats", and that if you get into a controversy tomorrow you're as likely as not to call someone else a sanctimonious dishonest hypocritical fucking cunty-twat.
Of course the frustrating thing is that you'll do that right in the midst of helping a newcomer who's trying to figure out an editing problem, reviewing a few GA nominations, and putting in a couple of hours polishing your next FA.
I have worked with my fellow arbitrators for a long time, and I am confident they don't really want to ban you. (No one should ever want to ban anyone from contributing to "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit"; bans are a last resort, though it's always a judgment call when it's necessary to employ that last resort, lest retaining one editor cost us five others.) I think what the arbitrators voting for the motion want, as the proposer has already said, is for you to say you'll make some effort to change your behavior. Not to become Caspar Milquetoast, and not to parrot some imaginary party line (as if we all agreed with each other about everything anyway), and not to change your views about who should or shouldn't become an administrator (although you're still wrong about "immigrated to" and Jeremy Lin).
Just to tone it down a notch already. Or n notches, for some positive value of n. If you agree to do this, maybe I can open a thread in the Civility RfC to quantify n. (I vote for pi-squared-over-six, which is a very cool number. But I digress.)
The civility policy is actually very simple: Editors are expected to be reasonably courteous to each other. There's a good reason this is a policy, though it's obviously not the only policy there is. Do you think it should be a policy? Do you think you've made even a minimal effort to adhere to it? Are you willing to try?
I can readily imagine a Wikipedia in which Malleus Faturoum accomplishes everything he wants to, while softening the sharp edges and incendiary rhetoric that have brought things to where they are now. Can you? Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
I want to appeal to you on the basis of two considerations. First, using aggressive obscenities damages the milieu by suggesting to other editors that it's fine; in a sense, there's a danger of normalising it over time. Second, I quaver at the reaction of many female editors, who are on the whole more likely to take private offence and as we already know favour more strongly than males a harmonious environment; we face a desperate problem in the 90–10 gender split.
πIt's all about context; few people—women, newbies, even the most uppity, sexually repressed person—would fail to enjoy a good joke involving aggressive obscenities (preferably off-wiki, away from FoxNews's prying eyes). But that is not usually the context when you use them, or at least it's not clear that you mean no harm. This "just the way I'm wired" claim is fair on one level, but you're skilful and insightful enough, aren't you, to see that different linguistic registers require different wordings?
I haven't read the arb-case text; but please consider making a pledge to avoid immoderate language. You're too valuable for us to lose, and you'd garner significant respect for making such a pledge. Maybe the arbs might be swayed by it, too. Please remember, also, that on a wiki, ANI and arbcom are not about truth or justice, but about keeping the game afloat. Tony (talk) 03:39, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
It's the wee hours of the morning for you (heck, it's the wee hours of the morning for me and we're 5 time zones apart), and historically this has been the period where you've had the greatest challenges in maintaining decorum, so I don't want to press you for any responses now. I do urge you to give some thought to the postings of those whom you respect here (and hopefully the arbitrators who have posted here as well, if one or more of us don't fall into the first category), but more importantly, take care of the person behind the Malleus moniker first and get some rest. Risker ( talk) 05:32, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, you and I don't see eye to eye all the time, but I have a great deal of respect for you. People often lump you together with trolls because your method of interacting with other uses veers too often into the less than stellar areas of insulting people's (perceived lack of) intelligence and calling people names. However while I wish that you would stop doing that, I've come to recongize that you're not a troll, but someone who is deeply intellectually honest and tells it how it is, you just happen to do so in a way that people view as inappropriate. That you've become the community punching bag, that you're viewed as the free target that people can poke at to get a rise out of, and that this feeds into a vicious cycle in which a person that's long been jaded becomes even more jaded, is a tragedy.
While I don't believe that a history of positive contributions should excuse a history of inappropriate behavior, I do believe that it is important to account for the distinction between your incivility and base trolling. In short, to be honest, I do believe that you've gone too far, too often, and that if it doesn't stop, you need to spend some time away from the project. I also believe that you are smart enough to be able to avoid continuing to fall into this trap. You've been wronged a number of times over the course of this project, however fighting to correct these issues is not a role you can play if you continue this confrontational and abrasive attitude. You've become the figurehead for incivility, and your voice doesn't carry the authority that's needed to successful point out the issues this process faces because of that. Too many people discard your thoughts because you're the one making them.
The solution then, is to give the faction that's after you nothing; cut the incivility down to zero, give them nothing to use against you. The less fodder you give your enemies, the weaker their arguments become, and the more obvious that at least some people are after you because you're you. If you leave, nothing changes. If you're banned, nothing changes. If you really want to improve the toxic culture of this project, to combat hypocrisy, vindictiveness, petty actions, give the people behind those petty actions nothing to work with and then watch with silent glee as they lose their positions of respect by trying to grind out something out of nothing. It's an endeavor I wish you luck in. In short, take NYB's offer.
Anyways, feel free to take this as you wish. I've tried to be as honest and straightforward as I can be. I believe that this is the best advice I can give. What you do from here on out is up to you, and I suppose, ArbCom. Best of luck in your endeavors. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:58, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I know you already figured this for yourself but if there are people who are out to get you (and I can see why you think that), then they are claiming the support both of the people who really are offended at your choice of epithet, and also of the larger number who are concerned about the effect this has on other people. Your own words are being used as a stick to beat you. But you're not Ozzie Osbourne (who seems to have been only left with the swear words, poor chap), or someone with only a few words in their vocabulary. You should be smart enough to outsmart them - cleaning up the taproom language will better highlight the legitimacy of your criticism. I don't know what tactic would work for you - I cuss a lot at the screen, others use milder epithets or the made up swear words from Porridge or Farscape, others avoid responding immediately (write it but leave it in preview for ten minutes), or leave it alone till later if they feel the ire rising, or craft a reply in another application, then write the clean version into the edit window. You can come and cuss at me if you like - I said right at the start (if you recall, a certain party accused me of being a cowgirl (??) for saying it) that I would always try to untangle the underlying complaint from the language it was expressed in. Whatever works for you. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 11:27, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, if you want to take a couple of days to think things through, I will use my best efforts to make sure that nothing happens in the interim. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The committee is not homogeneous. One of the reasons I ran again was a need for someone who actually writes content to be on the damn committee. I've tried pointing out percentages etc. elsewhere. I'm tired and this is fucked. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 13:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I wanted to let you know that I'm disgusted at the arbitration bollocks. There is a meet up in Machester today, if you would like to attend, I would love to buy you a pint. In fact, I would personally see to it that you glass (and that of your good lady should she wish to join us) never run dry. I am truly sorry for the state of this encyclopaedia. WormTT( talk) 07:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Malleus. I see that four Committee members have reached out to you regarding this current situation. I note that none of the four, currently, are voting to ban you. But I am. I thought you might want to know why. We've never had a problem you and I, and I have a lot of respect for you - indeed, I recommend you to others when there is GA review or a bit of copy-editing to be done which requires a bit more than the average thought and skill. So I am not voting to ban you because I dislike you, nor because I think you are useless.
Wikipedia is not the community, it's the encyclopaedia - and that is what matters, and what comes first. But we need a community in order to discuss how to shape the encyclopaedia and move it forward. The community as well as providing a means of communication, planning and discussion on how to shape and move forward the encyclopaedia, also provides encouragement, advice, lessons, motivation, etc. A positive, supportive, encouraging, enabling, collaborative community can do wonders - and since being involved in Wikipedia I've been impressed and proud of how this community (one of the world's newest, taking advantage of all the lessons learned since mankind first formed societies) has formed its rules and guidelines. I think some our core rules and guidelines are models of how all societies could be run - Assume good faith, Consensus, etc. The sense that the community runs itself - there is no authority - we decide from within by consensus. We are a young community and are still growing. We still make mistakes and have much to learn. But we move forward with a positive intent - assuming good faith, and doing things by consensus. We are assailed from without by moaners and doubters, attacked by vandals, and are undermined from within by moaners and doubters, POV pushers, ego-trippers, bad eggs, and disruptive users. Yet we improve and go on.
So we have a community that has flaws, and has its attackers and doubters, but is at heart very sound, and is at heart the heart of Wikipedia. We are the community - you and I, and all the others who have commented on this page and on the ArbCom page: the good, the bad, the ugly, those you agree with, and those you disagree with. Whatever our status, and however you or I regard each other or any of the others, we all have roughly the same aim - to build and improve the encyclopaedia.
Now, when someone's conduct is such that they are destabilising the community, it causes me concern. When the community is concentrating on an individual's quarrels and attitudes rather than building the encyclopaedia, then that causes me concern. When an individual's language and attitude are hostile (for whatever reason) it causes me concern not just because it distracts the community from building the encyclopaedia, but because of the chilling effect that hostility has, not just on the person to whom it is used, but also on those listening in. There are many people who when they walk into a community, a club, a workplace, a school, a pub, a college or school, and they hear arguments, swearing and shouting, are disquieted. Regardless of the reasons for the argument, they will not be motivated, and they will not be encouraged. Just the fact of a loud argument is unsettling. When they see someone being belittled for a comment they may not even understand, they are worried if they same will happen to them. They are not emboldened to take part in discussions. They are scared off. They are discouraged. It's not just the swear words or the noise, it is the apparent disregard for the other person's dignity. When it is the person them-self who is at the receiving end of the hostility, this is especially discouraging. Sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes people in very good faith say silly things. Sometimes people are not as knowledgeable, as intelligent, as articulate, as tactful, as we would like. So be it. We need to look at the bigger picture, consider the impact of our own conduct, and see what we, who are better, more knowledgeable, more experienced, wiser and older, can do to assist them, and the wider audience.
Often when your name comes up in incidents, there are people, including yourself, who defend your inappropriate conduct and language (let's not pretend it is anything other than that) because you were baited or provoked or otherwise had good reason to be annoyed. You would not be alone in that. Sadly, a large number of Wikipedians have come upon moments that pushed their red mist button. I think this has been common to most (all?) societies, and probably has been throughout time. However, I guess we learn self-restraint, self-control, and we devise a set of rules to help back that up. In your case, you have possibly (I don't know, this is an assumption) not been encouraged to developed self-restraint or to abide by our community's rules, because you have been encouraged in your inappropriate conduct by the users who wish to support you - often well meaning, but perhaps focussing more on your individual contributions, and less on the wider impact. It may well be that you have been harshly treated, and a thorough examination of your Wikipedia history may show that abuse. However, what counts here and now with a motion on the table is that currently you appear to react inappropriately to very small provocation. And that your mode of communication is too often abrupt for some people.
So, I am voting to ban you because I don't want to see the Wikipedia community go down the road of accepting or excusing hostile conduct that discourages other users. I want people who come here to behave themselves, and to encourage others to behave themselves, and to encourage others to take part in building the project; and to take all aspects of their own behaviour into account when considering that encouragement. I don't expect people to be perfect, and I will take provocation into mitigation, as well as positive contributions; but I am concerned when someone's behaviour is not modified after warnings, and especially when under sanction.
I am keen to look at and consider other solutions than a ban, but until a viable solution is proposed, I will continue to support a ban, regardless of how much I respect your work and your dedication. If you can propose a solution yourself, I'll be more than happy to hear it. SilkTork ✔Tea time 18:02, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Why should it just apply to Malleus? Yesterday I was called a "fucktard" by one of your friends Silk and you did nothing to warn him of his incivility. It doesn't seem right to be preaching about civility when you permit your friends to spout their mouths off like that.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
This is far more offensive than anything I've ever seen Malleus ever said, doesn't people like that concern you SilkTork? He's a content contributor, but he's also excused for speaking to me like that?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:17, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
"What matters at this stage is the construction of local forms of community within which civility and the intellectual and moral life can be sustained through the new dark ages which are already upon us. And if the tradition of the virtues was able to survive the horrors of the last dark ages, we are not entirely without grounds for hope. This time however the barbarians are not waiting beyond the frontiers; they have already been governing us for quite some time."
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 23:32, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The latest comment by AGK. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
MONGO seems to be going bongo BONGO:
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
That's a no-no, MONGO — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiefer.Wolfowitz ( talk • contribs) 09:28, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Kiefer .Wolfowitz 08:48, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
As you are probably aware, WP:NPA is a policy. This edit violates that policy. I suggest you retract it. I also suggest you apologise. As you probably also know, repeated violation of policies can lead to blocks. -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 21:20, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
The Brilliant Idea Barnstar | |
Wait--you were blocked for insulting MONGO? Well, now, that's a terrible thing. Isn't it. Really, Malleus, tsk tsk. I hope you gave him the FU he deserves.
We're talking about that idiot who wants the credit for driving you off, right? If you did, well done. And who was the fool that thought it was a good use of his little tool to block you? I'm not following things anymore: I looked at the ArbCom shit yesterday or the day before and right now I don't give a good goddamn about this whole project. Take it easy, and please give my regards to Mrs. Malleus. Drmies ( talk) 23:20, 21 October 2012 (UTC) |
Hello, Malleus
As a party involved in the 2nd WP:FAC of Microsoft Security Essentials, you might be willing to participate in Wikipedia:Featured article review/Microsoft Security Essentials/archive1.
Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 08:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
, but you should read the
guide to appealing blocks first. -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 21:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Pedro? Quién? Elen, I was referring to your (Arbcom) collective apparel, not suggesting that you, personally, were given to ornamental knickers. Matadors do not traditionally wear protection in the southern region, but Arbcom seems to. At least JClemens seems to think he is invulnerable. But you have made your feelings known elsewhere, this was just a wardrobe issue here. pablo 23:15, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello Malleus Fatuorum. I mentioned you in a discussion here. I'd like to present an idea to you for consideration. If you believe the idea has any merit whatsoever, it would be great if you helped me develop it, or at least agree to support its potential. If not, you can tell me how foolish it is to your satisfaction, or you can dismiss the notion out of hand. I hope you will agree to hear me further and await guidance from you. Thanks - 76Strat String da Broke da ( talk) 01:17, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus, I made sometime ago a major update in a FA called Honório Hermeto Carneiro Leão, Marquis of Paraná. Many sentences were changes to better suit the newer and improved sources used in the article. However, I want to be sure that the article still looks good enough to be a FA. I wonder, if you have time and interest, if you could take a look at it and make any needed improvements? In case you are willing, the only request I make is not to increase the number of paragraphs. Regards, -- Lecen ( talk) 02:18, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
At the schools I went to as a youngster it was quite commonplace that the school bully or one of his acolytes would challenge you to a fight outside the school gates when school was over. Was that a uniquely Scottish custom? Malleus Fatuorum 21:19, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
( edit conflict)I wasn't allowed the choice: my father was vicar and chairman of the board of governors and teacher at my infants and juniors, so there was no escaping his decree that I must "turn the other cheek". Whichever way I turned I'd be shunned at school or at home! Which would you choose? Mind you, if I knew then what I know now ect. [sic]; I wasn't bullied at big school, I believe because no-one knew my father was a vicar – make of that what you will. Nortonius ( talk) 22:19, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Your block log is mentioned here: User talk:Nobody Ent/block log Nobody Ent 20:53, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
And another courtesy notice re the proposed topic ban (motion 2, currently passing) - I've posed seven scenarios at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Questions from Bencherlite that I think the topic ban would cover, asking the arbs to check that my understanding of the coverage is correct (and if not to clarify the wording if possible) to avoid as many problems as possible later under the law of unintended consequences. I've alerted Courcelles as the original drafter of motion 2 as well, because I suspect my musings will get buried in the wall of text... Bencherlite Talk 22:42, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Another mention Nobody Ent 14:18, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks once more for taking the time and effort to review the article. Lemonade51 ( talk) 20:47, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the review of SŻ. I know we disagree on references, but please, can you refrain from removing refs from my articles? In the few case where the sentences were combined, sure, there is no need for a ref in the middle if it is at the end of sentences, but after your recent passes there are some potentially controversial parts that look unreferenced. I will give you one example. You removed a reference from te sentence: "As a result of his successful campaign Żółkiewski seized Moscow and captured the tsar Vasiliy Shuyskiy and his brothers, Ivan Shuyskiy and Dmitri Shuyskiy". The capture of those tsars by Ż is a rather controversial event in P-R history, and I would not be surprised if a random Russian passerby tagged it as requiring a cite. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 23:30, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Hopefully you won't leave us - and hopefully you still have my email and the one I have for you won't change. However, I also know that putting things off can lead to regrets, and there were two things that I feel we never finished talking about - so I thought I'd offer replies that I should have at the time.
Well, I don't know what it will be like a week or a month from now - but I hope you are still contributing your abilities here. But no matter what, more than that, I hope that you and your wife are happy and enjoying life. You're a person I greatly admire and respect. Your honesty and integrity are truly inspiring to anyone who chooses to observe. Best of luck in all Malleus. — Ched : ? 06:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I know you're busy but if you're interested, I'd like your opinion on this. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 17:24, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I am planning to write an article about SAS veteran/tracker and son of Leeds, "Jungle" Eddie McGee. An article by this name (the winner of the first season of the American version of Big Brother...) already exists. I wonder if you or any of the other esteemed visitors to this talk page have a suggestion for how to name the proposed article? I have considered Eddie McGee (soldier), Eddie McGee (survivalist) and Eddie McGee (tracker) thus far. Keristrasza ( talk) 08:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps back off a bit there? You are getting sucked in and any time now you'll find yourself being played if you are not careful. I know that it is hard to ignore but sometimes it is best. - Sitush ( talk) 15:41, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
And a further "btw" is that I received an email yesterday from one of the regular Indic article contributors. Basically, a greetings card type of thing relating to Dashahra (the Hindu harvest festival equivalent), it included a Burke quote: "Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little." I already knew of the one that you mentioned above but the similarity is evident. I presume either bowdlerisation or, more likely, that Burke was more consistent than some of those who fly the aforementioned userbox! - Sitush ( talk) 16:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for a very helpful c/e of the SŻ article. Have some tea on me! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:13, 24 October 2012 (UTC) |
Hello there. I've heard you're an excellent copy editor. Thanks for helping others with your skill. I had someone with an English degree take a look at DVT, and I've taken their suggestions, but perhaps you can make sure the English is brilliant and comment at Wikipedia:Peer review/Deep vein thrombosis/archive3? Thanks for your time. Biosthmors ( talk) 15:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar | |
For all your great and amazing content work. ArbCom madness apart, I hope you are having a relative good time (excuse me if I am a little naive). I just wish you the best :). — ΛΧΣ 21™ 15:07, 25 October 2012 (UTC) |
Above, you wrote "At the schools I went to as a youngster... Was that a uniquely Scottish custom?" I hadn't realised that you were possibly one of the Salted Porridge Brigade. This means, of course, that I now hear only Peter Capaldi/Malcolm Tucker's voice when I read your comments. It is delicious good fun. Keristrasza ( talk) 06:45, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Malleus - how the hell are you? I see from the Arbcom noticeboard that your campaign to reduce the ennui and apathy that usually greets the elections is having some success - well done indeed. I haven't read any of the doubtless riveting background material and don't intend to. It would perhaps all be rather funny if it weren't also obvious that there is genuine ill-feeling and suffering involved. It's all grist to the mill I suppose and useful evidence for some bright young thing's forthcoming PhD on " attachment theory in on-line relationships" or similar.
I have a notion that Origins of the Uí Ímair and the Earls of Orkney is a possible GAN. However, it is not in mainspace yet as I am a little worried that the final summary, although cited line-by-line is a possible technical breach of WP:SYNTH in that I have never seen a published overview of these hypotheses (although the authorities do of course mention the existence of different approaches). Any input would be welcome. Ben Mac Dui 13:35, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Irrespective of the offense you took to the observation I made in my prior message (which I intended to convey with a somewhat facetious tone), I really don't think you want to close a GA review for reasons as petty as you seemed to indicate, since it would probably not reflect well upon you as a GA reviewer. The assertion with you tried to pass off as justification for doing so, that I did not have any intention of addressing the issues you raised, is obviously false, since I responded to every single issue you raised, and implemented the ones that seemed reasonable. To close the review on this basis just over a day after your previous message to me (when it took me a week to respond to your October 15 message), makes it seem rather transparent what your true basis for that action is, don't you think? Are you sure you don't want to reconsider this? Nightscream ( talk) 05:46, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Sorry if my removal of the old template was not the right procedure. I thought perhaps it was what had to be done in order to renominate the article, a conclusion I reached in error in part due AirCorn's advice regarding the GA2. There was no need for the accusatory tone in your revert's edit summary. In any event, take care. Nightscream ( talk) 23:45, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello Malleus. It seems there are those that like to put a leash around your neck. (How stupid!) Pesky is always talking about wisdom of animals; when was a kid, we (dad, brother & I) were in the woods & came across a racoon caught in a muskrat trap; the coon had been in process of knawing its own hand off, in order to free itself. (We freed it, of course.) The experience made big impression on me. Ihardlythinkso ( talk) 11:56, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
In case you're interested. User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Do_we_need_.27Did_you_know.27_anyway.3F -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 12:57, 29 October 2012 (UTC)