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Our Gang's Chubby Chaney article has had an ongoing series of date of birth changes. Official records indicate his DOB was Nov 1, 1914. Studio records list it as Jan 18, 1918, and that is the date that most biographies use. There's a fair amount of discussion on his talk page, and this last update lasted for several months before it was reverted again. I'm reluctant to go changing it back to avoid an edit war, and would like a third party to review this again. You might note that I had previously asked for assistance in resolving the previous editing disputes. Thanks for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for encouraging the newbie, but some of your edits and comments would go straight over the newbie's head. Others of your edits and comments could be classed as "biting the newbies". Don't get me wrong - procedurally you are quite correct and quite justified. But a newbie wouldn't have any idea what you're talking about. For example, your edit comment: "Inappropriate messages removed from article talk. Please post on user talk pages to address personal issues." I know exactly what you are talking about, but a newbie would have NO idea. Cheers, Pdfpdf ( talk) 15:45, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Block_evasion:_Sovietia Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 17:51, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
Salut Diti'! It's great to see your concern for the quality of our articles as you did to Worcestershire Sauce. However, please remember that this is is the English Wikipedia, and as such, articles about English subjects are best illustrated with original English images. Merci! -- Kudpung ( talk) 15:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Well, the whole point of that, the thing that decided me to take 35 minutes of my time to take a photo, is simply to help a reader looking for an illustration. How so? Well, I thought, like what we do on the French-speaking Wikipedia, that between a 220×513px photo taken with a cellphone/compact camera, and a 1,975×2,970px photo of the same object taken with a DSLR, the latter was preferable. Kudpung reverted me, I never reverted back and just thought “Fine, I took a certain amount of time to produce a quality work, I am reverted in a couple of seconds by someone who
proposes his help but
doesn’t help, I’ll just stop contributing here”. I must say I neither care about the bottle, nor about the revert, I would have simply left, but then I am told on my userpage the things that constitute the raison d’être of
my current userpage. The only thing I and a couple of other French sysops understood in Kudpung’s speech (because, yes, I asked for a confirmation that I wasn’t the one to find such a thing really rude) is that, for Kudpung, “the English Wikipedia is made for English contributors who must take English photographs of English products (mine are English) in an English country” (I do exaggerate a little, but it is very much what I perceive of his messages). Understand that I am a little bit disgusted of being treated like that, with smiles.
Now, I will just leave you with your work on the English-speaking Wikipedia, I will stop giving away my photos to Wikimedia Commons (it has always been a pleasure until now), and, as Wotnow says, “it's better to just keep moving forward if possible, and to find things on which to constructively collaborate rather than fight over”. I will just continue making interwikis.
PS: If you consider me as a troll—I hope not, but if you do, it is really not intended—, please don’t feed me and go ahead.
Diti
the penguin —
02:47, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Just for the record:
-- Kudpung ( talk) 05:55, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
You are very kind! Thank you so much: it is truly appreciated. - Tim riley ( talk) 17:28, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Mind specifying which article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ironholds ( talk • contribs)
Very clear, especially in the way you take statements completely out of context. You directly suggested I was acting like a 12-year old girl (very civil), while I was reiterating a well known fact that has been discussed often on this encyclopedia: that a lot of indiscriminate tagging is being done by minors. There have even been cases where they have organised tagging competitions among themselves. It's clear enough to anyone reading this thread that I was referring to that and not to you personally. It's eaqually clear to anyone this thread that there are no aggressive tones tone in my posts. Now please give it a rest.-- Kudpung ( talk) 06:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
While I disagree with your opinion, I can understand that not all editors will agree. However, as I had stated, I do not wish to waste space discussing it on Connormah's RfA. I had used these questions (or variants thereof) several years ago, and no one complained then (in fact I had received several positive comments regarding the questions), so I decided "Hey, why not?" and reused them now. If you truly think they are frivolous, then please, explain to me how-so. I am merely trying to come to a conclusion about a user applying for adminship. -- khfan93 02:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
There is of course nothing wrong with wanting to improve an article, but your current use of the article talk page is clearly in direct opposition to Wkipedia policy on several counts, and hinders the use of the page by others. You do not own the article or its talk page, but I do not get involved with edit wars. I strongly suggest that you read the reasons for my edits.-- Kudpung ( talk) 04:53, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm fully aware of wikipedia policies on talk pages. (If you note my user page, I've been around a while) However, there is also the occasional need for Ignoring the rules and had you been a part of the discussion as it developed at Finnhorse, I think you would understand that this is one case. It's a very cluttered work page, but it's a working page about the article (been a little slow lately, but I think Pitke is a student and off for the summer or something). First off, almost all content is a dialogue between myself, an active and experienced editor of horse-related articles on wikipedia, and Pitke, who is Finnish and has a great deal of access to knowledge about that particular horse breed. The discussions there are all related to the improvement of the actual article --I'm sure you really don't want to compare all the diffs in the edit history, but trust me, the discussions were relevant to changes being made to the article. You will note that I kept some of the material from dead discussions in the archive you created. However, I restored the photos because they are being used as something of a bank to draw from as we work on the article. I do admit at the moment it's a bit scrapbook-y and all the thumbnails may need to be cleaned out sooner or later, but as Pitke also does a lot of work in Commons, I'm going to let Pitke decide the fate of the images once the article is pretty much done because that way they will be properly organized somewhere they can be found again.
I guess the bottom line is that I really wish you would have noticed that there were primarily the two of us working on the article and had nicely ASKED us if we could be so kind as to clear up the extra bandwidth we were using on the talk page. It was really a bit rude to just go in there, blank the page and leave a snotty template behind.
Frankly, if you want to do some VERY HELPFUL archiving and talk page cleanup that would be appreciated, please feel absolutely welcome to go over to rodeo and related articles and be my guest. We have people trying to restart two-year-old edit wars on those. An archive would be quite helpful there! :-P Montanabw (talk) 05:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung! Thanks for your good advice. I will add this template on all the talk pages of the articles I tried to translate. Regards, -- Europe22 ( talk) 12:35, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Two weeks ago I asked you politely not to edit my user talk page and explained my reasoning for this request; you have since edited it twice. Where I am able to decipher the meaning of your edits, I do not find them helpful. Please would you read WP:UP#CMT, be sensible and show some respect. Alistair Stevenson ( talk) 21:27, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Before criticising others, please do not forget the grave injustices you serve up against other editors. There appears to be a strong consensus that the pattern of your editing might not be conducive to a happy environement here, especially your manner of putting dubious positive spisn on on complaints to make it it appear that you are the injured party. By continuing to interfere, especially by stalking my edits on your watchpage, and looking for every possible opportunity for muck raking, please consider making some worthwhile edits to this encyclopedia, or at least check the background and be absolutely sure of your facts. By awarding such barnstars, the irony is, and you are quite aware of it, that you are clearly the one who is taunting for flames.-- Kudpung ( talk) 00:54, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung. I took a bold step with Malvern water, with the hope of improving overall readability. In doing so, I capitalised on the material you previously added, and tried to do some justice to your effort. I think I succeeded, but see what you think. I elaborated a bit more on the talk page. Regards Wotnow ( talk) 01:42, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Wotnow. Ever since the days before Malvern water was even split off into its own article, when the whole Malvern article (now a GA) was practically denounced as being monarchist propaganda and a blatant advert for the water, I was determined that the commercialised product should join the Wikipedia series of short 'blatant adverts' on bottled spring and mineral waters such as Highland Spring, Selters, Perrier, Vittel (water), Evian, Contrex, Badoit, Apollinaris (water), Celtic (water), etc. Most of these are very short stubs, but I have been able to cobble a starter that obviously contains some elements of the Malvern water page. It's more than a stub, and it's referenced, so I have already posted it to main space without any risk (I hope) of drive-by tagging. I have a lot more photos to add to it that I made during my privately organised visit to the factory, and one or two other Malvern Water things, but it needs more info such as market share at home and abroad, annual increases in sales, and so on, and the infobox completing. I have paraphrased as much as I can to make the article as dissimilar to Malvern water as possible, but I feel that perhaps you could add that literary flair of yours and do a better job. I would also very much appreciate your suggestions as to whether the name I have given the page should be moved to Malvern Water (spring water), or Malvern Water (drinking water) or Malvern Water (bottled water), etc, to differentiate it more clearly from the general phenomenon of Malvern water that has so influenced the lives of people like me and GyroMagician. The strict dictionary definition of beverage is 'any drink other than water'. When all this is done, and Malvern water finally passes its GA, we can then remove the Foof & Drink banner from Malvern water, because it's now on the bottld water article. One way to start would be to check out the links for the other stubs on water that I have listed above. The new article is HERE. Perhaps it should be scrapped completely if it clashes too much with Malvern water. -- Kudpung ( talk) 06:51, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung, re http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Cara_Butler&action=historysubmit&diff=373584468&oldid=370512338 are you really sure there was absolutely no mention of the subject in the referenced article, and if so is it possible there is a similar name that could have lead to this merely being a mistake? As its behind a paywall I hope you don't mind doublechecking before we escalate matters, assuming you've still got the article so you can do so without paying a second time. Giving a false reference is a pretty serious accusation, especially where BLPs are concerned, but I don't want to pay to check the article if you still have a copy and can confirm there is no "C Butler" or similar. Ϣere SpielChequers 10:08, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Are you claiming that the paid-for article doesn't have the information or just the first (and free) part of said article? You might want to try the following link [1]. In general if you have doubts about something like this, the easiest way to confirm the situation without spending money is to search using some short phrase in the short version of the article and the topic itself as I did to create that link. Please let me know if you have any questions about how to do that. Also, please remove the BLPPROD when you get a chance. Thanks. Hobit ( talk) 10:15, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Also noticed you apparently made a similar mistake in Peter Simko. Using Google translate I find a quote that "Fagernes beat Peter Simko at a technical knockout after 25 seconds" in the source. I'm not a speaker of Norwegian, so there could be a translation problem, but that would seem to support the sentence in question. Hobit ( talk) 10:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Edit conflict: Hmm... WSC, good points about the paywalls. My point was that as we cant verify such articles, there is no proof that what is claimed, is in them. I suspect that there could be cases where all that is mentioned is the name of the subject and no further treatment that lends notability and/or verifiability of claims in Wikipedia articles.I wonder how many of us are going to pay to access those web pages, particularly if after payiing, they don't directly serve our purpose. At least when we use print sources we can cite an ISBN, a pubisher, and the all imporant page numbers; we can also trot along to the public or university library and see the text for ourselves (well you an - I'm in Thailand). A we know, many web based sourcesa re shaky at the best of times, take all the polemic for instance over the IMDB.
For Hobit, I'll gladly trade the Butler sticky prod for a BLP refimprioe. Can we use this discussion as a consensus to do that?--
Kudpung (
talk)
13:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
@Hobit: RE translations - i'm glad you agree, which is exactly what I inferred. and why I gave the example of my work in Brontë-- Kudpung ( talk) 13:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
This organization meets the criteria for being recognized on Wikipedia. It has demonstrated a notable effect on culture in Beijing. It is the leading home delivery company in Beijing, and is expanding at a rate of 10% per month, with 120,000 revenue per month. It serves over 1,000 customers in Beijing and is also having a notable effect on culture and economics in Beijing. Also check the articles written about Beijing Home Delivery. If this is not worthy of a wikipedia page, why not? And at what point would this be worthy of one? (Richcoward (talk) 04:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richcoward ( talk • contribs)
I am the author of almost all the Swedish and Finnish rank articles on wiki. Since each soldier rank from menig to sergeant are very similar and contains too little information for justifying having one separate articles for each; I am merging them into one for convenience. When this is done, those tiny individual articles should be removed. Note I am the one who originally created those articles. Redgards -- Malin Lindquist ( talk) 05:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Done Leigh_and_Bransford now has a populated infobox. It needs checking. I reckon Leigh with Bransford] is now a ward consisting of at least two civil parishes. I cannot find an area so the population density is not filled in in the infobox - I hope this helps -- Senra ( talk) 09:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
You're right, Hanley CP contains the villages of Hanley and Hanley Child, they are over near Worcester city and that's why I didn't know them. Hanley Swan and Hanley Castle are two adjacent villages near the Malvern end of the county. I went to boarding school in the village of Hanley Castle; see Hanley Castle High School, if you're interested. It's difficult to keep up with what happens in the sprawling county district of Malvern because the boundaries have had some major changes over the years, what with Herefordshire & Worcestershire being merged, then demerged again barely 20 years later.-- Kudpung ( talk) 12:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
~ Gosox( 55)( 55) 14:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
i never removed the CSD banner from Liam The Leprechaun —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anikingos ( talk • contribs) 16:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello Kudpung. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Liam The Leprechaun, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Not a real person. Thank you. Ϣere SpielChequers 05:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello Kudpung. I'm writing here to let you know that I'm objecting to the speedy deletion of Prince Poppycock as I don't think 6 minutes is long enough to let a page develop before nominating it for speedy deletion. Wikipedia is supposed to be a collaborative effort and I am trying to create a page without writing it all myself. If the page does not develop a group of editors to support it then at that point I think deletion would be appropriate but a quick check of Google will show that this is at least arguably notable and hope you will give the page an opportunity to grow. Thanks - Acq3 ( talk) 22:21, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Thank you very much —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anikingos ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
RP - Late reply
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RP - Late replyHello Kupdung. The following message pertains to the paragraph you submitted on 25 June 2010 concerning our earlier discussion on RP. This directly continues from that statement but in honouring your request not to modify old talk pages (and I see that you have made nearly 2,000 edits since then), I bring this discussion forward to this section. Yes it will cause a minor problem of continuity but it's not critcal; all is there for the world to see. So, to refresh, the edit to which I refer is this. Originally, I was only making a remark (on the RP talk page) discrediting references to certain types of speech as "posh", I was not initially disputing what is and what is not RP. You made one interesting remark, that any "non-regional pronunciation" is a form of RP. I ask, just how varied and how many categories of any form of language can sit side by side and all be classed as RP, even by one who has admitted he considers it all subjective. Facts: even the finest forms of any language have their roots somewhere in a region. It is necessary that a nation must first split and migrate and develop new ways of speaking before one lucky region is declared lottary winner and his zone will dictate to outsiders how the language should be (eg. the dialect of Tuscany for all classsing themseves as Italian, except if Romance-speaking persons within Italy have a more regionalist approach leading to ideas of outright separation, "I am Piedmontese, or Sicilian", where it is another matter). RP did originate as a regional form; I believe it was London but some have disupted that. You then built up to this remark: "unaffected and clearly pronounced language of most of today's reasonably educated school kids." And what accent would that be Kudpung? I contend that there is no unaffected pronuciation among the young, not just among the "reasonable" but the "unreasonable" too, I speak of those with qualifications that fill shelves. In the past couple of weeks, there was a report from a linguist in The Sun: he confirmed that there was a certain levelling of register amid natural changes that take place, and he even pointed out (in support of your view) that it is getting harder and harder to distinguish now whether a person is from Dorest or East Anglia - incorporating the entire region of S.E England). However, we both know this is not all of England, and British English and RP zones extend farther; he also found that in Liverpool, the accent is becoming stronger - the opposite effect. So which accent is this you refer to? I know that young educated people from Southampton and Southend now sound similar to each other, but this accent most definitely does not include 20-something academics born in Leeds and living in Middlebrough. His northern "oo" sounds may have "standardised" so the vowel of "some" does no sound as it does in "book", but apart from one or two instances such as these, his sounding like the south-easterners is a sure to be light years away. Now for someone to have accepted the notion of "posh", to have previously described himself as speaking that way; to have admitted that it is not a permanewnt register (in that a northern accent comes into place when talking to some folk), I am amazed how good your knowledge is on RP. Most people I have met who match that description have never heard of RP, they simply think of the term "Queen's English" and even then, they often think that the language is governed by prescriptive measures that deem usage "correct or incorrect" and worse still, that the Queen has some kind of ownership of the tongue; it is true, people do believe this. I am curious to know whether I would personally detect certain features that you do not "hear", is your "posh" voice really something that masks any hint of your northern background? I'd be surprised. I have extremely sensitive ears Kupdung, I can hear the Welshman or the Liverpudlian in a great many people; you see, there is more to talking "differently" than plain old "vowel adjustment". How do I know this? I was born and raised in Wiltshire to parents from the Balkans (Yugoslavia). I didn't speak in an "ooh arh" accent as a child, I had a strong foreign accent in my early English speaking days (it was my second language), with years, it evolved into what it is today. I admit that I am inspired by those fine RP forms but how it actually sounds is something I cannot judge, it is down to the other listener. However, Wiltshire English or RP, there is a radical shift required if I wish to start speaking in Croatian. A phrase book will tell you that Croatian "a" is like English "hat", and "o" as in "hot". Just follow that guide by the letter and see if the folk in Split or Dubrovnik don't detect that you are an outsider. There is no English equivalent to the true ways the vowels are pronounced (nor some of the consonants). I can pass undetected yes, but I know that to do so, it requires a completely separate starting position and posture. You see, accent is also affected by intonation and other breathing techniques, especially aspiration (among other things), and if you try to ignore these factors and effect an RP speechform directly from a natural West Midlands register, well, it may satisfy you Kudpung, but not me, and I can play you recordings and point out radical differences that you'll have missed. This neatly takes me to the next section: the newsreaders you mentioned. None of them speak RP, they do not even speak the same as each other, three or four will pronounce something one way, the rest, another; so there is no question of individual behaviour either. I don't accuse the BBC of "introducing regional speech to tone down posh speech", for one, I don't accept "posh" speech, only RP (whatever it may be), and for another, there are BBC persons who speak in broad regional accents. Sports, weather and business are parts of the news and you hear people in Socttish, Irish, etc. accents there. Reporters have included Hillary Anderson (no idea what nationality she is but it is British), Kylie Morris (Australian I think, she had S.E Asia some years back but I don't know now) and others. And why not? BBC World Service English has foreigners as presenters themselves. I haven't got a problem with it Kupdung, I'm not a snob! "Dees iz deh BBC vorld serv-ees." Likewise, the gang on your list are not common, no, but again, I can hear the local in all of them. I can clearly hear that Trevor McDonald is black, and as for Mushal Hussein? You think hers is non-regional? She doesn't sound like she's from Northampton but she does as if she is from the south-east; she doesn't sound like she is on a London council estate but she doesn't resemble those who naturally use RP either; I cannot call it something "in between", it is nothing more than a diluted regional accent with some of the edges trimmed. However, for Mishal it does not end there. Unlike in my case, you can clearly detect that she was not raised by English speaking parents, and that she must have spent a great deal of time speaking in English with them. You see, it is often clear that a certain person has non-English speaking parents by their own pronunciation and emphasis on certain things. This happens when your parents choose to speak in English to you, and you oblige. I was fortunate that we used Macedonian/Serbo-Croat at home and to this day, with my country folk, I use the native language, only using English if addressing a British-born/raised individual who doesn't speak the native language/s effectively (and where he/she chooses). Mishal's speech (like that Reeta Chakribati) is marked by excessive hyper-pronunciation on several utterances/words per presentation. It stems from the irritation when hearing their parents speak to them in their weaker accents, a need emerges to "strengthen" it. I can hear it, and I have surprised people when speaking to them on the phone before knowing their names when I have accurately confirmed they were raised by non-native English speakers and that they spoke English with them. Now it is not that the BBC had removed "RP" as a prerequisite but ths is the way of the world itself. It runs its natural course, end of story. Now with no more target accent for the younger and oncoming generations (beyond, "run" not "roon" at the moment), the BBC is only doing what ITN has also done; that too (despite ITV's original reputation for low-mentality viewers and BBC2 for the middle-classes - values now long diminished) originally employed speakers of RP to present news and continuity. Attitudes have changed Kupdung, the world has changed, and continues to do so. Now here is one observation by me as to why there is no more RP, and what is actually replacing it. Do you remember the late 70s British ITV comedy George and Mildred? Their neighbours were the Fourmile family. The pompous Mr.Fourmile - concerned about his son's H-dropping, grammar, and spelling - was an estate agent. The series ran 1976-79. I know that you know that where language has had rules, its biggest offenders have been its so-called "police", this is what has led to hyper-corrections such as "for you and I". Not what you'd expect from the same kind of person who'd say "me and my mates went down the match on Saturday, got plastered by 11". Mr.Fourmile was indeed an "offender" at times, and it is unlikely that this was intentional as it would have "exposed him" within the storyline. It was clearly ignorance on the part of the writers and the same with all involved in production, so it travelled from the pen to the screens bypassing dozens of people in the process. Joke aside, it depicts a time when an estate agent will have been concerned about the state of the language, a time when you had middle-class pubs and working-class bars, not wine bars where can't work cuz I'm depressed and living on benefits toerags drink themselves stupid as they would in their local tavern (also serving low quality expensive "meals" to enhance its image). All right, I know life is not quite quite that two-dimensional. Times were nevertheless different and many people in many place cared about language and as such, RP, for all its changes, maintained common features and was continuous from older forms. I contend that this continuity has severed, and that if what we now have is a "replacement" for what RP was, it is unrelated to older forms. What estate agent will now care about grammar and syntax? Where will you find white-collar workers that know their "who" from their "whom"? You may get the occasional maverick but it is no longer the preserve of the community in the specific field. The only people left who have knowledge of language are those in the actual profession; no longer will we find bank managers fussing over "-ize", opting for "-ise"; if he does, he's on his own and his colleagues and subordinates will mock him.
SCAM MONGERS Kupdung, they are the people of today. There is no place for a real-life Mr.Fourmile in today's cut and thrust "property buying industry", his generation's concern for language reveal a sensitive side. To be a high flyer today, you can't have morals, they impede your progress and will hamper your hopes of promotion. Worse still, if your sly manager gets wind that you've breeched discretion by saying the wrong thing to the would-be client (ie. the truth), you could be out the door and in turn, "blacklisted" from ever again being deployed in that field.
Now with all this Kupdung, how can people care about RP!!?? Have you really not registered yet the habits of the "young educated" and the "BBC elite"? The ten-figure billion and thirteen-digit trillion? That still confuses people when they hear it spoken asuimg the other. Voiced Ts in words such as "better" (bedder)? H-dropping is one thing because it is a natural cause, but these features are Americanisms; and they are not universally accepted, I know that I have a lot of support from people young and old in rejecting these details are RP. And what about the pronunciation of "comparable"? For over 300 years, it was "komp-rubble", and still is by many, but some that don't know will say "komp- aaaa -rubble"; nothing alerting them will not change but they still make it onto BBC before this can happen. "Room" rhyiming with "loom" and not the vowel of "book"? Waistcoat and forehead all as separate words and not "weskit" and "forrid"? I know what you're thinking "ah, these are just preferences, one says this, the other says that, it doesn't relfect a region". But how much can a refined accent stand before it is not itself any more? If they had themselves the right posture in the first place, they wouldn't need to pronounce things as such because they'd find there is no other way of saying certain things; RP is natural, it falls into place when he hit the right note first time. If you don't, it is clear that you don't, and you end up speaking no different to the sleazy radio advert opportunists who grate on the ear with their verbal small print - you don't pay any anttention to the ad itself but you can't help but notice the annoying "t-voicing" moron speaking faster and faster as he tells you of what is "comp-aaaa-rable" before covering his benefactor's backsides with all the "exclusions" and "offer ends this date" cobblers and the final words that can make me spray him with bullets from a kalashnikov, "terms and conditions apply". Say it like it is - "it is all a scam". But I'll round off by giving you my best example to date. This wasn't the BBC Breakfast but its gay-lover and pretend-rival GMTV. I could not believe my ears when I heard "respiratory" pronounced, wait for it - "res - pi - RATE - o - ree". The word was always "res-pra-tree". I know the readers may have through "ah, respitator, just add y", but you can't even blame the Americans here! Even the Yanks say "res-pra ..." but then spoil it with "...tory". Shocking eh. Sorry this has been long-winded but I had to say everything. I divided everything into paragraphs for easier reading. Regards. Evlekis (Евлекис) 14:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC) |
Hi. Someone claiming to be you has a pending question here. We would appreciate your prompt attention to this matter. Thanks! — Jeff G. ツ 02:39, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung,
I just wanted to say that I'm amazed and astonished by the introductory paragraph on your user page. So cool. I wish I could hear of your stories of traveling Europe and learning linguistics. It fascinates me because I was borne in Western Germany days after the actual falling of the Berlin Wall. My parents are American, of course; Father in military but I wasn't borne on a military base. My father has traced our family roots to Germany, in a region where we once lived shortly. So, of course I'm fascinated by the place I came into the world where I don't have firsthand memories. I love linguistics because I can confuse people but also communicate to different groups of people. I try to teach myself German and I took Spanish in high school and shortly will take it again in college. I also share a strong passion for music; except on my piano. I would say more but it just sounds a little strange sharing all this on Wikipedia, of all places. Ah. So neat to come across your page. Tamer_of_Hope talk 03:56, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
A7 does not apply to schools. RN 07:57, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Its a reorganisation of the original huge list that was organised alphabetically, I haven't change the references at all. Will look at cleaning up the references in due course. Mztourist ( talk) 07:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes I vreated 1967, but I didn't create the original list that it came from. I'll correct the bare urls that I put in the original list, but won't do so for those that others have added as they're generally references to web pages only rather than documents or books. Mztourist ( talk) 12:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I removed my initial Speedy deletion nomination on Anya Reiss after finding the subject satisfies WP:GNG, having received significant coverage in major newspapers. The article needs a lot of work, including notability assertion, but restoring the Speedy nom was probably a little harsh. If you don't mind, I'm going to remove the nomination again as outlined in the lede for WP:CSD. Cheers! Catfish Jim and the soapdish ( talk) 11:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Super Viernes is CMLL's traditional Friday Night show that they have held every week since the 1930s, only cancelled because of the 1985 Mexico City earthquake and the 2009 Swine Flu epedemic. So it's not speculation to say that the show will happen in August as well, especially since CMLL has announced a tournament that runs during Super Viernes for three weeks, starting July 30 and will thus go into August. Just to explain why I removed the prod. MPJ -DK 11:54, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Note that here, you used {{curly braces}} instead of [[square brackets]], and as a result the article now includes the guidelines themselves rather than just a link to them. DS ( talk) 13:57, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello, Following your request a while back, Ive finally done some work on the List of Old Salopians page. There is still a long way to go and Ive called out to the Old Salopians to help! See also the articles talk page... -- Abacchus1974 ( talk) 20:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Well the myspace reference is to an interview that Louis Taylor had with this guy on myspace. The chicagosmma.com is a very good reference though. I feel that both references are good and needed. Louis Taylor is now making his mark on MMA when he faces Joe Riggs on August 13th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Falcons8455 ( talk • contribs) 00:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Kudpung, I have replied on my talk page. I suggest you also read Wikipedia:ROLLBACK#When_not_to_use_rollback, you may lose it if you continue reverting the addition of references, like you did here [3] [4]. XLerate ( talk) 06:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello again Kudpung, I hope you don't mind me editing, I know Haworth well and a tiny bit about the Brontes. I can understand your translation was literal, it must be really hard. I've just been trimming it round the edges but I will try hard not to alter the meaning. I don't think magazines were published daily, maybe weekly, if I find what they were I'll try to check. Hope you like the new pic.
Thanks for the response... I still had a lingering question, as my question was more broader than WP:RU. Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests#Articles that continually need to be updated Thanks. SauliH ( talk) 03:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Are you entering details and expanding the page right now? I would like to know since it may lead to clash when I make any edit. So please let me know about it. Bcs09 ( talk) 13:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung!
I declined the speedy deletion of
Naíscoil an tSeanchaí.I don't think there's consensus to speedy nursery schools under A7. Feel free to start a discussion on
WT:CSD. Regards,
decltype
(
talk)
15:22, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
-- Kudpung ( talk) 15:45, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
decltype
(
talk)
16:25, 25 July 2010 (UTC)Hi, you moved Grady to Grady (disambiguation) with the reason "large dab page". Is this some rule I don't know about (we include (disambiguation) in the title if it's a large page??) I thought that if there was no article at the plain title (i.e. no primary topic) then the dab page should have that title with no (disambiguation) added.-- Kotniski ( talk) 08:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC) t
I collapsed the warnings (inc yours) on User talk:Random Domains.
Of course, the user has 'seen' them, so it has no bearing on their effect, does not preclude a block if they carry on. I'm just trying to get them on track.
I'm sure you'll understand from my message on their talk; I just wanted to let you know, as a courtesy.
I'll try to help them, if at all possible.
Hope you're not annoyed.
Cheers, Chzz ► 20:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
/ Hey Mid ( contributions) 08:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for the post on my talk page about Lenon, sorry if you felt the edit summary was incorrect, I thought that I was describing my edit by explaining why I removed the PROD. You comments were helpful and taken in the way that they were meant. Thanks again. Paste Let’s have a chat. 08:28, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
I thought you were an experienced editor. File:Upton bridge.jpg should have been uploaded to the Commons, preferably using geograph_org2commons and should have been uploaded at the original size. Similarly, with your own images will you please get into the habit of uploading them to the Commons. — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 16:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
You seem to have stopped writing this mid-sentence! PamD ( talk) 11:17, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi, sorry I didn't see your invite to add my tu'ppence worth. FWIW, I would have said "keep". All the best, bigpad ( talk) 20:54, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung. It's possible the reviewer has forgotten the GA, but I think unlikely. He's given us evidence of keeping an eye on our progress, including the talk page, and offering encouraging remarks. I think he's just given us what seems a good period of time to work through his comments, and the article, make what we could of it, and step back to take stock of it. Probably has made a mental note to himself to give us until the end of July. I think he'll be as fair as he thinks he can, and my own preference is to not to rush him. Regards Wotnow ( talk) 08:17, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Our Gang's Chubby Chaney article has had an ongoing series of date of birth changes. Official records indicate his DOB was Nov 1, 1914. Studio records list it as Jan 18, 1918, and that is the date that most biographies use. There's a fair amount of discussion on his talk page, and this last update lasted for several months before it was reverted again. I'm reluctant to go changing it back to avoid an edit war, and would like a third party to review this again. You might note that I had previously asked for assistance in resolving the previous editing disputes. Thanks for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for encouraging the newbie, but some of your edits and comments would go straight over the newbie's head. Others of your edits and comments could be classed as "biting the newbies". Don't get me wrong - procedurally you are quite correct and quite justified. But a newbie wouldn't have any idea what you're talking about. For example, your edit comment: "Inappropriate messages removed from article talk. Please post on user talk pages to address personal issues." I know exactly what you are talking about, but a newbie would have NO idea. Cheers, Pdfpdf ( talk) 15:45, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Block_evasion:_Sovietia Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 17:51, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
Salut Diti'! It's great to see your concern for the quality of our articles as you did to Worcestershire Sauce. However, please remember that this is is the English Wikipedia, and as such, articles about English subjects are best illustrated with original English images. Merci! -- Kudpung ( talk) 15:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Well, the whole point of that, the thing that decided me to take 35 minutes of my time to take a photo, is simply to help a reader looking for an illustration. How so? Well, I thought, like what we do on the French-speaking Wikipedia, that between a 220×513px photo taken with a cellphone/compact camera, and a 1,975×2,970px photo of the same object taken with a DSLR, the latter was preferable. Kudpung reverted me, I never reverted back and just thought “Fine, I took a certain amount of time to produce a quality work, I am reverted in a couple of seconds by someone who
proposes his help but
doesn’t help, I’ll just stop contributing here”. I must say I neither care about the bottle, nor about the revert, I would have simply left, but then I am told on my userpage the things that constitute the raison d’être of
my current userpage. The only thing I and a couple of other French sysops understood in Kudpung’s speech (because, yes, I asked for a confirmation that I wasn’t the one to find such a thing really rude) is that, for Kudpung, “the English Wikipedia is made for English contributors who must take English photographs of English products (mine are English) in an English country” (I do exaggerate a little, but it is very much what I perceive of his messages). Understand that I am a little bit disgusted of being treated like that, with smiles.
Now, I will just leave you with your work on the English-speaking Wikipedia, I will stop giving away my photos to Wikimedia Commons (it has always been a pleasure until now), and, as Wotnow says, “it's better to just keep moving forward if possible, and to find things on which to constructively collaborate rather than fight over”. I will just continue making interwikis.
PS: If you consider me as a troll—I hope not, but if you do, it is really not intended—, please don’t feed me and go ahead.
Diti
the penguin —
02:47, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Just for the record:
-- Kudpung ( talk) 05:55, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
You are very kind! Thank you so much: it is truly appreciated. - Tim riley ( talk) 17:28, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Mind specifying which article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ironholds ( talk • contribs)
Very clear, especially in the way you take statements completely out of context. You directly suggested I was acting like a 12-year old girl (very civil), while I was reiterating a well known fact that has been discussed often on this encyclopedia: that a lot of indiscriminate tagging is being done by minors. There have even been cases where they have organised tagging competitions among themselves. It's clear enough to anyone reading this thread that I was referring to that and not to you personally. It's eaqually clear to anyone this thread that there are no aggressive tones tone in my posts. Now please give it a rest.-- Kudpung ( talk) 06:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
While I disagree with your opinion, I can understand that not all editors will agree. However, as I had stated, I do not wish to waste space discussing it on Connormah's RfA. I had used these questions (or variants thereof) several years ago, and no one complained then (in fact I had received several positive comments regarding the questions), so I decided "Hey, why not?" and reused them now. If you truly think they are frivolous, then please, explain to me how-so. I am merely trying to come to a conclusion about a user applying for adminship. -- khfan93 02:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
There is of course nothing wrong with wanting to improve an article, but your current use of the article talk page is clearly in direct opposition to Wkipedia policy on several counts, and hinders the use of the page by others. You do not own the article or its talk page, but I do not get involved with edit wars. I strongly suggest that you read the reasons for my edits.-- Kudpung ( talk) 04:53, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm fully aware of wikipedia policies on talk pages. (If you note my user page, I've been around a while) However, there is also the occasional need for Ignoring the rules and had you been a part of the discussion as it developed at Finnhorse, I think you would understand that this is one case. It's a very cluttered work page, but it's a working page about the article (been a little slow lately, but I think Pitke is a student and off for the summer or something). First off, almost all content is a dialogue between myself, an active and experienced editor of horse-related articles on wikipedia, and Pitke, who is Finnish and has a great deal of access to knowledge about that particular horse breed. The discussions there are all related to the improvement of the actual article --I'm sure you really don't want to compare all the diffs in the edit history, but trust me, the discussions were relevant to changes being made to the article. You will note that I kept some of the material from dead discussions in the archive you created. However, I restored the photos because they are being used as something of a bank to draw from as we work on the article. I do admit at the moment it's a bit scrapbook-y and all the thumbnails may need to be cleaned out sooner or later, but as Pitke also does a lot of work in Commons, I'm going to let Pitke decide the fate of the images once the article is pretty much done because that way they will be properly organized somewhere they can be found again.
I guess the bottom line is that I really wish you would have noticed that there were primarily the two of us working on the article and had nicely ASKED us if we could be so kind as to clear up the extra bandwidth we were using on the talk page. It was really a bit rude to just go in there, blank the page and leave a snotty template behind.
Frankly, if you want to do some VERY HELPFUL archiving and talk page cleanup that would be appreciated, please feel absolutely welcome to go over to rodeo and related articles and be my guest. We have people trying to restart two-year-old edit wars on those. An archive would be quite helpful there! :-P Montanabw (talk) 05:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung! Thanks for your good advice. I will add this template on all the talk pages of the articles I tried to translate. Regards, -- Europe22 ( talk) 12:35, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Two weeks ago I asked you politely not to edit my user talk page and explained my reasoning for this request; you have since edited it twice. Where I am able to decipher the meaning of your edits, I do not find them helpful. Please would you read WP:UP#CMT, be sensible and show some respect. Alistair Stevenson ( talk) 21:27, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Before criticising others, please do not forget the grave injustices you serve up against other editors. There appears to be a strong consensus that the pattern of your editing might not be conducive to a happy environement here, especially your manner of putting dubious positive spisn on on complaints to make it it appear that you are the injured party. By continuing to interfere, especially by stalking my edits on your watchpage, and looking for every possible opportunity for muck raking, please consider making some worthwhile edits to this encyclopedia, or at least check the background and be absolutely sure of your facts. By awarding such barnstars, the irony is, and you are quite aware of it, that you are clearly the one who is taunting for flames.-- Kudpung ( talk) 00:54, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung. I took a bold step with Malvern water, with the hope of improving overall readability. In doing so, I capitalised on the material you previously added, and tried to do some justice to your effort. I think I succeeded, but see what you think. I elaborated a bit more on the talk page. Regards Wotnow ( talk) 01:42, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Wotnow. Ever since the days before Malvern water was even split off into its own article, when the whole Malvern article (now a GA) was practically denounced as being monarchist propaganda and a blatant advert for the water, I was determined that the commercialised product should join the Wikipedia series of short 'blatant adverts' on bottled spring and mineral waters such as Highland Spring, Selters, Perrier, Vittel (water), Evian, Contrex, Badoit, Apollinaris (water), Celtic (water), etc. Most of these are very short stubs, but I have been able to cobble a starter that obviously contains some elements of the Malvern water page. It's more than a stub, and it's referenced, so I have already posted it to main space without any risk (I hope) of drive-by tagging. I have a lot more photos to add to it that I made during my privately organised visit to the factory, and one or two other Malvern Water things, but it needs more info such as market share at home and abroad, annual increases in sales, and so on, and the infobox completing. I have paraphrased as much as I can to make the article as dissimilar to Malvern water as possible, but I feel that perhaps you could add that literary flair of yours and do a better job. I would also very much appreciate your suggestions as to whether the name I have given the page should be moved to Malvern Water (spring water), or Malvern Water (drinking water) or Malvern Water (bottled water), etc, to differentiate it more clearly from the general phenomenon of Malvern water that has so influenced the lives of people like me and GyroMagician. The strict dictionary definition of beverage is 'any drink other than water'. When all this is done, and Malvern water finally passes its GA, we can then remove the Foof & Drink banner from Malvern water, because it's now on the bottld water article. One way to start would be to check out the links for the other stubs on water that I have listed above. The new article is HERE. Perhaps it should be scrapped completely if it clashes too much with Malvern water. -- Kudpung ( talk) 06:51, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung, re http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Cara_Butler&action=historysubmit&diff=373584468&oldid=370512338 are you really sure there was absolutely no mention of the subject in the referenced article, and if so is it possible there is a similar name that could have lead to this merely being a mistake? As its behind a paywall I hope you don't mind doublechecking before we escalate matters, assuming you've still got the article so you can do so without paying a second time. Giving a false reference is a pretty serious accusation, especially where BLPs are concerned, but I don't want to pay to check the article if you still have a copy and can confirm there is no "C Butler" or similar. Ϣere SpielChequers 10:08, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Are you claiming that the paid-for article doesn't have the information or just the first (and free) part of said article? You might want to try the following link [1]. In general if you have doubts about something like this, the easiest way to confirm the situation without spending money is to search using some short phrase in the short version of the article and the topic itself as I did to create that link. Please let me know if you have any questions about how to do that. Also, please remove the BLPPROD when you get a chance. Thanks. Hobit ( talk) 10:15, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Also noticed you apparently made a similar mistake in Peter Simko. Using Google translate I find a quote that "Fagernes beat Peter Simko at a technical knockout after 25 seconds" in the source. I'm not a speaker of Norwegian, so there could be a translation problem, but that would seem to support the sentence in question. Hobit ( talk) 10:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Edit conflict: Hmm... WSC, good points about the paywalls. My point was that as we cant verify such articles, there is no proof that what is claimed, is in them. I suspect that there could be cases where all that is mentioned is the name of the subject and no further treatment that lends notability and/or verifiability of claims in Wikipedia articles.I wonder how many of us are going to pay to access those web pages, particularly if after payiing, they don't directly serve our purpose. At least when we use print sources we can cite an ISBN, a pubisher, and the all imporant page numbers; we can also trot along to the public or university library and see the text for ourselves (well you an - I'm in Thailand). A we know, many web based sourcesa re shaky at the best of times, take all the polemic for instance over the IMDB.
For Hobit, I'll gladly trade the Butler sticky prod for a BLP refimprioe. Can we use this discussion as a consensus to do that?--
Kudpung (
talk)
13:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
@Hobit: RE translations - i'm glad you agree, which is exactly what I inferred. and why I gave the example of my work in Brontë-- Kudpung ( talk) 13:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
This organization meets the criteria for being recognized on Wikipedia. It has demonstrated a notable effect on culture in Beijing. It is the leading home delivery company in Beijing, and is expanding at a rate of 10% per month, with 120,000 revenue per month. It serves over 1,000 customers in Beijing and is also having a notable effect on culture and economics in Beijing. Also check the articles written about Beijing Home Delivery. If this is not worthy of a wikipedia page, why not? And at what point would this be worthy of one? (Richcoward (talk) 04:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richcoward ( talk • contribs)
I am the author of almost all the Swedish and Finnish rank articles on wiki. Since each soldier rank from menig to sergeant are very similar and contains too little information for justifying having one separate articles for each; I am merging them into one for convenience. When this is done, those tiny individual articles should be removed. Note I am the one who originally created those articles. Redgards -- Malin Lindquist ( talk) 05:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Done Leigh_and_Bransford now has a populated infobox. It needs checking. I reckon Leigh with Bransford] is now a ward consisting of at least two civil parishes. I cannot find an area so the population density is not filled in in the infobox - I hope this helps -- Senra ( talk) 09:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
You're right, Hanley CP contains the villages of Hanley and Hanley Child, they are over near Worcester city and that's why I didn't know them. Hanley Swan and Hanley Castle are two adjacent villages near the Malvern end of the county. I went to boarding school in the village of Hanley Castle; see Hanley Castle High School, if you're interested. It's difficult to keep up with what happens in the sprawling county district of Malvern because the boundaries have had some major changes over the years, what with Herefordshire & Worcestershire being merged, then demerged again barely 20 years later.-- Kudpung ( talk) 12:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
~ Gosox( 55)( 55) 14:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
i never removed the CSD banner from Liam The Leprechaun —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anikingos ( talk • contribs) 16:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello Kudpung. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Liam The Leprechaun, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Not a real person. Thank you. Ϣere SpielChequers 05:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello Kudpung. I'm writing here to let you know that I'm objecting to the speedy deletion of Prince Poppycock as I don't think 6 minutes is long enough to let a page develop before nominating it for speedy deletion. Wikipedia is supposed to be a collaborative effort and I am trying to create a page without writing it all myself. If the page does not develop a group of editors to support it then at that point I think deletion would be appropriate but a quick check of Google will show that this is at least arguably notable and hope you will give the page an opportunity to grow. Thanks - Acq3 ( talk) 22:21, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Thank you very much —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anikingos ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
RP - Late reply
|
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RP - Late replyHello Kupdung. The following message pertains to the paragraph you submitted on 25 June 2010 concerning our earlier discussion on RP. This directly continues from that statement but in honouring your request not to modify old talk pages (and I see that you have made nearly 2,000 edits since then), I bring this discussion forward to this section. Yes it will cause a minor problem of continuity but it's not critcal; all is there for the world to see. So, to refresh, the edit to which I refer is this. Originally, I was only making a remark (on the RP talk page) discrediting references to certain types of speech as "posh", I was not initially disputing what is and what is not RP. You made one interesting remark, that any "non-regional pronunciation" is a form of RP. I ask, just how varied and how many categories of any form of language can sit side by side and all be classed as RP, even by one who has admitted he considers it all subjective. Facts: even the finest forms of any language have their roots somewhere in a region. It is necessary that a nation must first split and migrate and develop new ways of speaking before one lucky region is declared lottary winner and his zone will dictate to outsiders how the language should be (eg. the dialect of Tuscany for all classsing themseves as Italian, except if Romance-speaking persons within Italy have a more regionalist approach leading to ideas of outright separation, "I am Piedmontese, or Sicilian", where it is another matter). RP did originate as a regional form; I believe it was London but some have disupted that. You then built up to this remark: "unaffected and clearly pronounced language of most of today's reasonably educated school kids." And what accent would that be Kudpung? I contend that there is no unaffected pronuciation among the young, not just among the "reasonable" but the "unreasonable" too, I speak of those with qualifications that fill shelves. In the past couple of weeks, there was a report from a linguist in The Sun: he confirmed that there was a certain levelling of register amid natural changes that take place, and he even pointed out (in support of your view) that it is getting harder and harder to distinguish now whether a person is from Dorest or East Anglia - incorporating the entire region of S.E England). However, we both know this is not all of England, and British English and RP zones extend farther; he also found that in Liverpool, the accent is becoming stronger - the opposite effect. So which accent is this you refer to? I know that young educated people from Southampton and Southend now sound similar to each other, but this accent most definitely does not include 20-something academics born in Leeds and living in Middlebrough. His northern "oo" sounds may have "standardised" so the vowel of "some" does no sound as it does in "book", but apart from one or two instances such as these, his sounding like the south-easterners is a sure to be light years away. Now for someone to have accepted the notion of "posh", to have previously described himself as speaking that way; to have admitted that it is not a permanewnt register (in that a northern accent comes into place when talking to some folk), I am amazed how good your knowledge is on RP. Most people I have met who match that description have never heard of RP, they simply think of the term "Queen's English" and even then, they often think that the language is governed by prescriptive measures that deem usage "correct or incorrect" and worse still, that the Queen has some kind of ownership of the tongue; it is true, people do believe this. I am curious to know whether I would personally detect certain features that you do not "hear", is your "posh" voice really something that masks any hint of your northern background? I'd be surprised. I have extremely sensitive ears Kupdung, I can hear the Welshman or the Liverpudlian in a great many people; you see, there is more to talking "differently" than plain old "vowel adjustment". How do I know this? I was born and raised in Wiltshire to parents from the Balkans (Yugoslavia). I didn't speak in an "ooh arh" accent as a child, I had a strong foreign accent in my early English speaking days (it was my second language), with years, it evolved into what it is today. I admit that I am inspired by those fine RP forms but how it actually sounds is something I cannot judge, it is down to the other listener. However, Wiltshire English or RP, there is a radical shift required if I wish to start speaking in Croatian. A phrase book will tell you that Croatian "a" is like English "hat", and "o" as in "hot". Just follow that guide by the letter and see if the folk in Split or Dubrovnik don't detect that you are an outsider. There is no English equivalent to the true ways the vowels are pronounced (nor some of the consonants). I can pass undetected yes, but I know that to do so, it requires a completely separate starting position and posture. You see, accent is also affected by intonation and other breathing techniques, especially aspiration (among other things), and if you try to ignore these factors and effect an RP speechform directly from a natural West Midlands register, well, it may satisfy you Kudpung, but not me, and I can play you recordings and point out radical differences that you'll have missed. This neatly takes me to the next section: the newsreaders you mentioned. None of them speak RP, they do not even speak the same as each other, three or four will pronounce something one way, the rest, another; so there is no question of individual behaviour either. I don't accuse the BBC of "introducing regional speech to tone down posh speech", for one, I don't accept "posh" speech, only RP (whatever it may be), and for another, there are BBC persons who speak in broad regional accents. Sports, weather and business are parts of the news and you hear people in Socttish, Irish, etc. accents there. Reporters have included Hillary Anderson (no idea what nationality she is but it is British), Kylie Morris (Australian I think, she had S.E Asia some years back but I don't know now) and others. And why not? BBC World Service English has foreigners as presenters themselves. I haven't got a problem with it Kupdung, I'm not a snob! "Dees iz deh BBC vorld serv-ees." Likewise, the gang on your list are not common, no, but again, I can hear the local in all of them. I can clearly hear that Trevor McDonald is black, and as for Mushal Hussein? You think hers is non-regional? She doesn't sound like she's from Northampton but she does as if she is from the south-east; she doesn't sound like she is on a London council estate but she doesn't resemble those who naturally use RP either; I cannot call it something "in between", it is nothing more than a diluted regional accent with some of the edges trimmed. However, for Mishal it does not end there. Unlike in my case, you can clearly detect that she was not raised by English speaking parents, and that she must have spent a great deal of time speaking in English with them. You see, it is often clear that a certain person has non-English speaking parents by their own pronunciation and emphasis on certain things. This happens when your parents choose to speak in English to you, and you oblige. I was fortunate that we used Macedonian/Serbo-Croat at home and to this day, with my country folk, I use the native language, only using English if addressing a British-born/raised individual who doesn't speak the native language/s effectively (and where he/she chooses). Mishal's speech (like that Reeta Chakribati) is marked by excessive hyper-pronunciation on several utterances/words per presentation. It stems from the irritation when hearing their parents speak to them in their weaker accents, a need emerges to "strengthen" it. I can hear it, and I have surprised people when speaking to them on the phone before knowing their names when I have accurately confirmed they were raised by non-native English speakers and that they spoke English with them. Now it is not that the BBC had removed "RP" as a prerequisite but ths is the way of the world itself. It runs its natural course, end of story. Now with no more target accent for the younger and oncoming generations (beyond, "run" not "roon" at the moment), the BBC is only doing what ITN has also done; that too (despite ITV's original reputation for low-mentality viewers and BBC2 for the middle-classes - values now long diminished) originally employed speakers of RP to present news and continuity. Attitudes have changed Kupdung, the world has changed, and continues to do so. Now here is one observation by me as to why there is no more RP, and what is actually replacing it. Do you remember the late 70s British ITV comedy George and Mildred? Their neighbours were the Fourmile family. The pompous Mr.Fourmile - concerned about his son's H-dropping, grammar, and spelling - was an estate agent. The series ran 1976-79. I know that you know that where language has had rules, its biggest offenders have been its so-called "police", this is what has led to hyper-corrections such as "for you and I". Not what you'd expect from the same kind of person who'd say "me and my mates went down the match on Saturday, got plastered by 11". Mr.Fourmile was indeed an "offender" at times, and it is unlikely that this was intentional as it would have "exposed him" within the storyline. It was clearly ignorance on the part of the writers and the same with all involved in production, so it travelled from the pen to the screens bypassing dozens of people in the process. Joke aside, it depicts a time when an estate agent will have been concerned about the state of the language, a time when you had middle-class pubs and working-class bars, not wine bars where can't work cuz I'm depressed and living on benefits toerags drink themselves stupid as they would in their local tavern (also serving low quality expensive "meals" to enhance its image). All right, I know life is not quite quite that two-dimensional. Times were nevertheless different and many people in many place cared about language and as such, RP, for all its changes, maintained common features and was continuous from older forms. I contend that this continuity has severed, and that if what we now have is a "replacement" for what RP was, it is unrelated to older forms. What estate agent will now care about grammar and syntax? Where will you find white-collar workers that know their "who" from their "whom"? You may get the occasional maverick but it is no longer the preserve of the community in the specific field. The only people left who have knowledge of language are those in the actual profession; no longer will we find bank managers fussing over "-ize", opting for "-ise"; if he does, he's on his own and his colleagues and subordinates will mock him.
SCAM MONGERS Kupdung, they are the people of today. There is no place for a real-life Mr.Fourmile in today's cut and thrust "property buying industry", his generation's concern for language reveal a sensitive side. To be a high flyer today, you can't have morals, they impede your progress and will hamper your hopes of promotion. Worse still, if your sly manager gets wind that you've breeched discretion by saying the wrong thing to the would-be client (ie. the truth), you could be out the door and in turn, "blacklisted" from ever again being deployed in that field.
Now with all this Kupdung, how can people care about RP!!?? Have you really not registered yet the habits of the "young educated" and the "BBC elite"? The ten-figure billion and thirteen-digit trillion? That still confuses people when they hear it spoken asuimg the other. Voiced Ts in words such as "better" (bedder)? H-dropping is one thing because it is a natural cause, but these features are Americanisms; and they are not universally accepted, I know that I have a lot of support from people young and old in rejecting these details are RP. And what about the pronunciation of "comparable"? For over 300 years, it was "komp-rubble", and still is by many, but some that don't know will say "komp- aaaa -rubble"; nothing alerting them will not change but they still make it onto BBC before this can happen. "Room" rhyiming with "loom" and not the vowel of "book"? Waistcoat and forehead all as separate words and not "weskit" and "forrid"? I know what you're thinking "ah, these are just preferences, one says this, the other says that, it doesn't relfect a region". But how much can a refined accent stand before it is not itself any more? If they had themselves the right posture in the first place, they wouldn't need to pronounce things as such because they'd find there is no other way of saying certain things; RP is natural, it falls into place when he hit the right note first time. If you don't, it is clear that you don't, and you end up speaking no different to the sleazy radio advert opportunists who grate on the ear with their verbal small print - you don't pay any anttention to the ad itself but you can't help but notice the annoying "t-voicing" moron speaking faster and faster as he tells you of what is "comp-aaaa-rable" before covering his benefactor's backsides with all the "exclusions" and "offer ends this date" cobblers and the final words that can make me spray him with bullets from a kalashnikov, "terms and conditions apply". Say it like it is - "it is all a scam". But I'll round off by giving you my best example to date. This wasn't the BBC Breakfast but its gay-lover and pretend-rival GMTV. I could not believe my ears when I heard "respiratory" pronounced, wait for it - "res - pi - RATE - o - ree". The word was always "res-pra-tree". I know the readers may have through "ah, respitator, just add y", but you can't even blame the Americans here! Even the Yanks say "res-pra ..." but then spoil it with "...tory". Shocking eh. Sorry this has been long-winded but I had to say everything. I divided everything into paragraphs for easier reading. Regards. Evlekis (Евлекис) 14:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC) |
Hi. Someone claiming to be you has a pending question here. We would appreciate your prompt attention to this matter. Thanks! — Jeff G. ツ 02:39, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung,
I just wanted to say that I'm amazed and astonished by the introductory paragraph on your user page. So cool. I wish I could hear of your stories of traveling Europe and learning linguistics. It fascinates me because I was borne in Western Germany days after the actual falling of the Berlin Wall. My parents are American, of course; Father in military but I wasn't borne on a military base. My father has traced our family roots to Germany, in a region where we once lived shortly. So, of course I'm fascinated by the place I came into the world where I don't have firsthand memories. I love linguistics because I can confuse people but also communicate to different groups of people. I try to teach myself German and I took Spanish in high school and shortly will take it again in college. I also share a strong passion for music; except on my piano. I would say more but it just sounds a little strange sharing all this on Wikipedia, of all places. Ah. So neat to come across your page. Tamer_of_Hope talk 03:56, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
A7 does not apply to schools. RN 07:57, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Its a reorganisation of the original huge list that was organised alphabetically, I haven't change the references at all. Will look at cleaning up the references in due course. Mztourist ( talk) 07:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes I vreated 1967, but I didn't create the original list that it came from. I'll correct the bare urls that I put in the original list, but won't do so for those that others have added as they're generally references to web pages only rather than documents or books. Mztourist ( talk) 12:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I removed my initial Speedy deletion nomination on Anya Reiss after finding the subject satisfies WP:GNG, having received significant coverage in major newspapers. The article needs a lot of work, including notability assertion, but restoring the Speedy nom was probably a little harsh. If you don't mind, I'm going to remove the nomination again as outlined in the lede for WP:CSD. Cheers! Catfish Jim and the soapdish ( talk) 11:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Super Viernes is CMLL's traditional Friday Night show that they have held every week since the 1930s, only cancelled because of the 1985 Mexico City earthquake and the 2009 Swine Flu epedemic. So it's not speculation to say that the show will happen in August as well, especially since CMLL has announced a tournament that runs during Super Viernes for three weeks, starting July 30 and will thus go into August. Just to explain why I removed the prod. MPJ -DK 11:54, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Note that here, you used {{curly braces}} instead of [[square brackets]], and as a result the article now includes the guidelines themselves rather than just a link to them. DS ( talk) 13:57, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello, Following your request a while back, Ive finally done some work on the List of Old Salopians page. There is still a long way to go and Ive called out to the Old Salopians to help! See also the articles talk page... -- Abacchus1974 ( talk) 20:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Well the myspace reference is to an interview that Louis Taylor had with this guy on myspace. The chicagosmma.com is a very good reference though. I feel that both references are good and needed. Louis Taylor is now making his mark on MMA when he faces Joe Riggs on August 13th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Falcons8455 ( talk • contribs) 00:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Kudpung, I have replied on my talk page. I suggest you also read Wikipedia:ROLLBACK#When_not_to_use_rollback, you may lose it if you continue reverting the addition of references, like you did here [3] [4]. XLerate ( talk) 06:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello again Kudpung, I hope you don't mind me editing, I know Haworth well and a tiny bit about the Brontes. I can understand your translation was literal, it must be really hard. I've just been trimming it round the edges but I will try hard not to alter the meaning. I don't think magazines were published daily, maybe weekly, if I find what they were I'll try to check. Hope you like the new pic.
Thanks for the response... I still had a lingering question, as my question was more broader than WP:RU. Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests#Articles that continually need to be updated Thanks. SauliH ( talk) 03:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Are you entering details and expanding the page right now? I would like to know since it may lead to clash when I make any edit. So please let me know about it. Bcs09 ( talk) 13:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung!
I declined the speedy deletion of
Naíscoil an tSeanchaí.I don't think there's consensus to speedy nursery schools under A7. Feel free to start a discussion on
WT:CSD. Regards,
decltype
(
talk)
15:22, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
-- Kudpung ( talk) 15:45, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
decltype
(
talk)
16:25, 25 July 2010 (UTC)Hi, you moved Grady to Grady (disambiguation) with the reason "large dab page". Is this some rule I don't know about (we include (disambiguation) in the title if it's a large page??) I thought that if there was no article at the plain title (i.e. no primary topic) then the dab page should have that title with no (disambiguation) added.-- Kotniski ( talk) 08:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC) t
I collapsed the warnings (inc yours) on User talk:Random Domains.
Of course, the user has 'seen' them, so it has no bearing on their effect, does not preclude a block if they carry on. I'm just trying to get them on track.
I'm sure you'll understand from my message on their talk; I just wanted to let you know, as a courtesy.
I'll try to help them, if at all possible.
Hope you're not annoyed.
Cheers, Chzz ► 20:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
/ Hey Mid ( contributions) 08:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for the post on my talk page about Lenon, sorry if you felt the edit summary was incorrect, I thought that I was describing my edit by explaining why I removed the PROD. You comments were helpful and taken in the way that they were meant. Thanks again. Paste Let’s have a chat. 08:28, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
I thought you were an experienced editor. File:Upton bridge.jpg should have been uploaded to the Commons, preferably using geograph_org2commons and should have been uploaded at the original size. Similarly, with your own images will you please get into the habit of uploading them to the Commons. — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 16:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
You seem to have stopped writing this mid-sentence! PamD ( talk) 11:17, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi, sorry I didn't see your invite to add my tu'ppence worth. FWIW, I would have said "keep". All the best, bigpad ( talk) 20:54, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung. It's possible the reviewer has forgotten the GA, but I think unlikely. He's given us evidence of keeping an eye on our progress, including the talk page, and offering encouraging remarks. I think he's just given us what seems a good period of time to work through his comments, and the article, make what we could of it, and step back to take stock of it. Probably has made a mental note to himself to give us until the end of July. I think he'll be as fair as he thinks he can, and my own preference is to not to rush him. Regards Wotnow ( talk) 08:17, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
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