WHAT IS THIS Kiziotherapy ( talk) 20:34, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Did you not read my notes when I "reverted" your edits on the Harla page? I said that I personally believe they were Semitic speakers (for various reasons) but that we don't truly know what language they spoke for sure. Anyone who claims they did is doing so via conjecture. There is no written evidence of what language they spoke in the historical record nor any accounts, from when they were alive as an "ethnic" or "tribal" entity, that concretely establish their linguistic grouping so it's unbecoming to be sure (on that page) if they spoke a Semitic or Cushitic language as it's not and sadly likely won't ever be a settled issue unless we find concrete historical evidence (I.e. inscriptions or written accounts from ~500 years ago or so).
Also, your claims about the Darod are totally dubious and not in line with what is usually common knowledge on the Darod clan's origins which is that they're the result of an Arabian man (Hashemite) marrying the daughter of the Dir clan chief. This is of course a fabled and likely fraudulent Arabian genealogical claim as scholars like I.M Lewis posit. But intriguingly; the story as to how he (the clan founder) married Dombira has roots in the "Waaqist" faith seemingly followed by many pre-Islamic Somalis & perhaps also Afars (still followed by some Oromos to this day). And finally, don't make me repeat myself as I did with Zekenyan when he kept asserting that Benadiris have something to do with "Harlas" if that's what you're trying to imply with that mention about "Mogadishu" (it has no real meaning in Somali but means "Maq'ad i-Shah"/"Seat of the Shah" in Persian/Farsi which goes with it's known ties to an early Iranian presence in the settlement). Benadiris, as I told Zekenyan, are a Benadiri Somali speaking people of diverse origins (Iranian, Arab, Somali, Southeast African Bantu) and have nothing to do with Harlas or anything like that beyond having something to do with Somalis. As for your claims about the Darod being Harla/Harari and all that stuff about Siad Barre; please keep such weird theories to yourself. I'm not interested. But if you have actual concrete sources on this; do share...
Finally, as for my latest edit... I just didn't quite "click" with how you were placing the "Harla" language ahead of Somali, Arabic & Harari. We don't know very much about this group in the actual historical literature despite all of the conjecture out there from some Ethiopian scholars. So let's stick to known groups like Hararis and Somalis for the time being. Anyway... Take care, Awale-Abdi ( talk) 00:45, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
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I'm aware of the rule... It's why I've refrained from editing a particular post of yours more than 3 times and said I would go to the Admins if you persisted in editing in this baseless stuff you keep posting because you'd force me to do so as I wouldn't be able to revert anymore. But by all means; discuss things with me in the talk page. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 05:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Indeed and I'm not editing anything you've posted so far... Awale-Abdi ( talk) 06:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm not censoring material. I'm removing what clearly looks like a bunch of baseless nonsense. I'm serious... You have no evidence for most of your claims except sources that make claims based on nothing and that are contradicted by everything that's been studied about these figures since the 19th century. You think you've found some magical new information on Sheikh Darod that I.M Lewis, Enrico Cerulli, Lee V. Casanelli, Hassan Mukhtar, Mohammed Diriye Abdullahi and several "Somali studies" scholars couldn't find in all their lives? He was supposedly an Arabian and that is all we know. Your sources, if they claim otherwise, are fringe sources claiming things based on nothing, frankly. Also, you keep accusing me of having a "bias" but you're the one who constantly talks like this:
I knew arawelo was harla queen that is why I looked for a source even though mythology has exaggerated her existence.
"I knew", "I believe". I don't speak like that; I just tell you what we know via the historical record, established oral traditions, archaeology and linguistics. And finally.. You want sources on Sheikh Darod? They're all over his page so knock yourself out. You don't seem to read the pages you edit:
Abdirahman bin Isma'il al-Jabarti, also known as Darod, Dawud or Da'ud, is the man traditionally held to be the common ancestor of the Somali Darod clan. According to early Islamic books and local tradition, Abdirahman is believed to have descended from Aqeel ibn Abi Talib, a member of the Banu Hashim and the cousin of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.[1][2]
What's written above is common wisdom and here's just one source on it. Nothing about Harlas in the source I shared... And the sources about Arawelo are in her page, I'm not going to go fetch them for you. I showed you that they were folktale articles... There's no proof that she was real. Imagine someone taking a folktale and then saying "It's definitely real and she was also part of this ethnic group." (without any real evidence in historical sources, archaeology, linguistics or what have you), that's what you and whatever dubious fringe source you're using are doing right now. But honestly, the Sheikh Darod claim is more ridiculous. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 06:24, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Then mention from now on that your new views are just that... You're again being disingenuous. Usually when a new and clearly fringe theory pops up with little evidence; you can add it but shouldn't present it as a fact which is what you've done with some of your edits. I.e. "Harla (official)"; you make it sound like this is well-established, not contradicted and the popular view when it isn't and has no backing in any of the evidence. Even with Sheikh Darod you wrote "He is linked to the Harla tribe" not "It is suggested by a new source that he is linked to the Harla tribe" <- that's the actual truth there. If you worded a lot of your stuff more like this; I wouldn't take issue but you're misleading readers by sharing fringe claims that don't fit with the common narrative as though they're well-established. And what're you on about with this:
I believe you registered before me but didn't care to remove al jabarti from the harla page but now all up in arms. Its called censoring views you don't like.
? I've been on Wikipedia for a two years or so now and only noticed the Jabarti mention in the Harla page recently because of all the crap you've been stirring up. If I'd noticed it before (if it indeed was there before); I would have removed it then too. I don't care about these views; it's about these claims being baseless. I'm only messaging you now because I'm trying to come to some common ground with you. All of this constant accusing me is not helping. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 07:36, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Apologies, just been a bit pre-occupied these last two days. I'll somewhat be so today and tomorrow too (Eid festivities with some family and friends). I'll try to log-in from time-to-time. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 05:40, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
Alright, I'll make the edits you requested I do instead around tomorrow. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 21:29, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Okay, I did the edits. Remember to check the "history" section for the edits before thinking I reverted/deleted your edits or something because I didn't; just did what we agreed upon. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 00:14, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
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Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot ( talk) 00:19, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
WHAT IS THIS Kiziotherapy ( talk) 20:34, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Did you not read my notes when I "reverted" your edits on the Harla page? I said that I personally believe they were Semitic speakers (for various reasons) but that we don't truly know what language they spoke for sure. Anyone who claims they did is doing so via conjecture. There is no written evidence of what language they spoke in the historical record nor any accounts, from when they were alive as an "ethnic" or "tribal" entity, that concretely establish their linguistic grouping so it's unbecoming to be sure (on that page) if they spoke a Semitic or Cushitic language as it's not and sadly likely won't ever be a settled issue unless we find concrete historical evidence (I.e. inscriptions or written accounts from ~500 years ago or so).
Also, your claims about the Darod are totally dubious and not in line with what is usually common knowledge on the Darod clan's origins which is that they're the result of an Arabian man (Hashemite) marrying the daughter of the Dir clan chief. This is of course a fabled and likely fraudulent Arabian genealogical claim as scholars like I.M Lewis posit. But intriguingly; the story as to how he (the clan founder) married Dombira has roots in the "Waaqist" faith seemingly followed by many pre-Islamic Somalis & perhaps also Afars (still followed by some Oromos to this day). And finally, don't make me repeat myself as I did with Zekenyan when he kept asserting that Benadiris have something to do with "Harlas" if that's what you're trying to imply with that mention about "Mogadishu" (it has no real meaning in Somali but means "Maq'ad i-Shah"/"Seat of the Shah" in Persian/Farsi which goes with it's known ties to an early Iranian presence in the settlement). Benadiris, as I told Zekenyan, are a Benadiri Somali speaking people of diverse origins (Iranian, Arab, Somali, Southeast African Bantu) and have nothing to do with Harlas or anything like that beyond having something to do with Somalis. As for your claims about the Darod being Harla/Harari and all that stuff about Siad Barre; please keep such weird theories to yourself. I'm not interested. But if you have actual concrete sources on this; do share...
Finally, as for my latest edit... I just didn't quite "click" with how you were placing the "Harla" language ahead of Somali, Arabic & Harari. We don't know very much about this group in the actual historical literature despite all of the conjecture out there from some Ethiopian scholars. So let's stick to known groups like Hararis and Somalis for the time being. Anyway... Take care, Awale-Abdi ( talk) 00:45, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
--
---
I'm aware of the rule... It's why I've refrained from editing a particular post of yours more than 3 times and said I would go to the Admins if you persisted in editing in this baseless stuff you keep posting because you'd force me to do so as I wouldn't be able to revert anymore. But by all means; discuss things with me in the talk page. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 05:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Indeed and I'm not editing anything you've posted so far... Awale-Abdi ( talk) 06:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm not censoring material. I'm removing what clearly looks like a bunch of baseless nonsense. I'm serious... You have no evidence for most of your claims except sources that make claims based on nothing and that are contradicted by everything that's been studied about these figures since the 19th century. You think you've found some magical new information on Sheikh Darod that I.M Lewis, Enrico Cerulli, Lee V. Casanelli, Hassan Mukhtar, Mohammed Diriye Abdullahi and several "Somali studies" scholars couldn't find in all their lives? He was supposedly an Arabian and that is all we know. Your sources, if they claim otherwise, are fringe sources claiming things based on nothing, frankly. Also, you keep accusing me of having a "bias" but you're the one who constantly talks like this:
I knew arawelo was harla queen that is why I looked for a source even though mythology has exaggerated her existence.
"I knew", "I believe". I don't speak like that; I just tell you what we know via the historical record, established oral traditions, archaeology and linguistics. And finally.. You want sources on Sheikh Darod? They're all over his page so knock yourself out. You don't seem to read the pages you edit:
Abdirahman bin Isma'il al-Jabarti, also known as Darod, Dawud or Da'ud, is the man traditionally held to be the common ancestor of the Somali Darod clan. According to early Islamic books and local tradition, Abdirahman is believed to have descended from Aqeel ibn Abi Talib, a member of the Banu Hashim and the cousin of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.[1][2]
What's written above is common wisdom and here's just one source on it. Nothing about Harlas in the source I shared... And the sources about Arawelo are in her page, I'm not going to go fetch them for you. I showed you that they were folktale articles... There's no proof that she was real. Imagine someone taking a folktale and then saying "It's definitely real and she was also part of this ethnic group." (without any real evidence in historical sources, archaeology, linguistics or what have you), that's what you and whatever dubious fringe source you're using are doing right now. But honestly, the Sheikh Darod claim is more ridiculous. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 06:24, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Then mention from now on that your new views are just that... You're again being disingenuous. Usually when a new and clearly fringe theory pops up with little evidence; you can add it but shouldn't present it as a fact which is what you've done with some of your edits. I.e. "Harla (official)"; you make it sound like this is well-established, not contradicted and the popular view when it isn't and has no backing in any of the evidence. Even with Sheikh Darod you wrote "He is linked to the Harla tribe" not "It is suggested by a new source that he is linked to the Harla tribe" <- that's the actual truth there. If you worded a lot of your stuff more like this; I wouldn't take issue but you're misleading readers by sharing fringe claims that don't fit with the common narrative as though they're well-established. And what're you on about with this:
I believe you registered before me but didn't care to remove al jabarti from the harla page but now all up in arms. Its called censoring views you don't like.
? I've been on Wikipedia for a two years or so now and only noticed the Jabarti mention in the Harla page recently because of all the crap you've been stirring up. If I'd noticed it before (if it indeed was there before); I would have removed it then too. I don't care about these views; it's about these claims being baseless. I'm only messaging you now because I'm trying to come to some common ground with you. All of this constant accusing me is not helping. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 07:36, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Apologies, just been a bit pre-occupied these last two days. I'll somewhat be so today and tomorrow too (Eid festivities with some family and friends). I'll try to log-in from time-to-time. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 05:40, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
Alright, I'll make the edits you requested I do instead around tomorrow. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 21:29, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Okay, I did the edits. Remember to check the "history" section for the edits before thinking I reverted/deleted your edits or something because I didn't; just did what we agreed upon. Awale-Abdi ( talk) 00:14, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello, I'm
ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:
Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot ( talk) 00:19, 15 July 2016 (UTC)