Hey Keithgreenfan. You added asterixes to the Keith Green Ministry Years page. What about the song "Walk and Talk" though?
Hi, Actually, believe it or not, "Walk and Talk" is the first song Keith ever recorded, before his first album, "For Him Who Has Ears to Hear". It's from the album "Firewind" which (I think) was a Christian musical. I don't own the album so it definately 'feels' like a new song to me too, but it's actually not!
The Original Barnstar | |
Thanks for putting in the link to Keith Green's article on softening his approach! (and the previous editors for mentioning it)
( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Keith_Green&diff=next&oldid=363629400). It really helped to have the thoughts coming from Keith himself! When I read it, I was like "YES. YES! THAT IS WIKIPEDIA RIGHT THERE". Thanks! Nhergert ( talk) 21:45, 15 May 2015 (UTC) |
Here's wishing you a belated welcome to Wikipedia, Keithgreenfan! I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may still benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Wikipedia:
Need some ideas of what kind of things need doing? Try the Task Center.
If you don't already know, you should sign your posts on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) to insert your username and the date.
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Again, welcome! GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 03:13, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much @ GorillaWarfare:!! Very kind. As you can tell by my username and prior edits, I joined a decade ago to edit one page and have only made a few more edits since then. Hopefully I’ll be able to contribute more soon! Keithgreenfan ( talk) 03:21, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
RFCs typically run for a month or so. Per WP:RFCEND, an early close by a participant is for when the consensus is obvious. But your close summary seemed to indicate that you intended to continue arguing the issue. It would only be appropriate for you to close the RFC early if you planned to walk away from the dispute and accept the consensus of the other editors. MrOllie ( talk) 19:08, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. MrOllie ( talk) 19:38, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Keithgreenfan, please stop trying to close that RFC early. I understand that you're probably pretty confused about how Wikipedia works. Wikipedia is quite idiosyncratic in how it operates, so it's natural to make some mistakes like this. Elsewhere on the internet, you typically " own" whatever content you contribute, and nobody can mess with it. Wikipedia, on the other hand, is a collaborative website, and nobody "owns" anything. We have rules on who can close an RFC, how long they last, etc. Nobody has explicitly told you not to edit war to close an RFC early, or what might happen to you if you continue to do it. So, I'm telling you now that you could be blocked from editing if you continue doing this. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 22:47, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
@ HTGS, thank you for explaining the thinking of Wikipedia editors. I've discovered that simply reading the WP: pages isn't enough as the practical application doesn't match what is written. Your explanation of how my 'zealousness' is being taken is helpful, as is the explanation of how RFCs are intended to be used.
If you have time, I'd love to get your take on my experience with this article. I have been an end user of accountability software for over 15 years. I recently googled 'accountability software' because I was considering switching providers. I scanned past the Wikipedia description, laughed, and thought, "Wow someone really vandalized that article!" I figured I would hop on real quick and fix it.
Let me pause and explain my reaction. To illustrate, imagine if the Wikipedia article on Norton Security Suite began like this:
"Norton Security Suite, or malware, is a software package designed to slow a user's computer under the guise of 'security'."
Of course NSS does the opposite. Arguments about it slowing a system should be covered, but of course that's not the software's purpose. If someone *believed* this lede, Wikipedia would have misled readers *away* from a potential solution to their malware issues.
I view the current edit of the 'accountability software' article the same way. It is, to me, not at all minor. It deceives the reader into thinking accountability software *causes* shame rather than being the key to *breaking* shame. It further deceives by implying accountability relationships are *primarily* one sided with authority figures in control. In practice, I've never seen even one example of that in 15 years, and I'm steeped in the culture of those who use this software. It is voluntary peer to peer. In fact, the church in the article violated policies of several accountability software companies.
The abuse of the software as described by Wired should of course be covered, but is is pure (and consequential) misinformation to make people believe the abuse of the software is its purpose. Actual *users* would react similar to me which causes no harm. My concern is for those trying to find actual solutions. They will be misinformed to think a *solution* to their problem actually *causes* the problem. Just google 'porn and suicide' to see why I think this is very consequential misinformation.
That's why I had such a strong reaction. If it merely made Wikipedia look bad I wouldn't be this passionate. That's just the start but this is already too long :). I'll pause and see if you have time to respond. Would love to hear your thoughts one way or the other. Thanks again for the earlier help. Keithgreenfan ( talk) 14:35, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
Hey Keithgreenfan. You added asterixes to the Keith Green Ministry Years page. What about the song "Walk and Talk" though?
Hi, Actually, believe it or not, "Walk and Talk" is the first song Keith ever recorded, before his first album, "For Him Who Has Ears to Hear". It's from the album "Firewind" which (I think) was a Christian musical. I don't own the album so it definately 'feels' like a new song to me too, but it's actually not!
The Original Barnstar | |
Thanks for putting in the link to Keith Green's article on softening his approach! (and the previous editors for mentioning it)
( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Keith_Green&diff=next&oldid=363629400). It really helped to have the thoughts coming from Keith himself! When I read it, I was like "YES. YES! THAT IS WIKIPEDIA RIGHT THERE". Thanks! Nhergert ( talk) 21:45, 15 May 2015 (UTC) |
Here's wishing you a belated welcome to Wikipedia, Keithgreenfan! I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may still benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Wikipedia:
Need some ideas of what kind of things need doing? Try the Task Center.
If you don't already know, you should sign your posts on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) to insert your username and the date.
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Again, welcome! GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 03:13, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much @ GorillaWarfare:!! Very kind. As you can tell by my username and prior edits, I joined a decade ago to edit one page and have only made a few more edits since then. Hopefully I’ll be able to contribute more soon! Keithgreenfan ( talk) 03:21, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
RFCs typically run for a month or so. Per WP:RFCEND, an early close by a participant is for when the consensus is obvious. But your close summary seemed to indicate that you intended to continue arguing the issue. It would only be appropriate for you to close the RFC early if you planned to walk away from the dispute and accept the consensus of the other editors. MrOllie ( talk) 19:08, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. MrOllie ( talk) 19:38, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Keithgreenfan, please stop trying to close that RFC early. I understand that you're probably pretty confused about how Wikipedia works. Wikipedia is quite idiosyncratic in how it operates, so it's natural to make some mistakes like this. Elsewhere on the internet, you typically " own" whatever content you contribute, and nobody can mess with it. Wikipedia, on the other hand, is a collaborative website, and nobody "owns" anything. We have rules on who can close an RFC, how long they last, etc. Nobody has explicitly told you not to edit war to close an RFC early, or what might happen to you if you continue to do it. So, I'm telling you now that you could be blocked from editing if you continue doing this. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 22:47, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
@ HTGS, thank you for explaining the thinking of Wikipedia editors. I've discovered that simply reading the WP: pages isn't enough as the practical application doesn't match what is written. Your explanation of how my 'zealousness' is being taken is helpful, as is the explanation of how RFCs are intended to be used.
If you have time, I'd love to get your take on my experience with this article. I have been an end user of accountability software for over 15 years. I recently googled 'accountability software' because I was considering switching providers. I scanned past the Wikipedia description, laughed, and thought, "Wow someone really vandalized that article!" I figured I would hop on real quick and fix it.
Let me pause and explain my reaction. To illustrate, imagine if the Wikipedia article on Norton Security Suite began like this:
"Norton Security Suite, or malware, is a software package designed to slow a user's computer under the guise of 'security'."
Of course NSS does the opposite. Arguments about it slowing a system should be covered, but of course that's not the software's purpose. If someone *believed* this lede, Wikipedia would have misled readers *away* from a potential solution to their malware issues.
I view the current edit of the 'accountability software' article the same way. It is, to me, not at all minor. It deceives the reader into thinking accountability software *causes* shame rather than being the key to *breaking* shame. It further deceives by implying accountability relationships are *primarily* one sided with authority figures in control. In practice, I've never seen even one example of that in 15 years, and I'm steeped in the culture of those who use this software. It is voluntary peer to peer. In fact, the church in the article violated policies of several accountability software companies.
The abuse of the software as described by Wired should of course be covered, but is is pure (and consequential) misinformation to make people believe the abuse of the software is its purpose. Actual *users* would react similar to me which causes no harm. My concern is for those trying to find actual solutions. They will be misinformed to think a *solution* to their problem actually *causes* the problem. Just google 'porn and suicide' to see why I think this is very consequential misinformation.
That's why I had such a strong reaction. If it merely made Wikipedia look bad I wouldn't be this passionate. That's just the start but this is already too long :). I'll pause and see if you have time to respond. Would love to hear your thoughts one way or the other. Thanks again for the earlier help. Keithgreenfan ( talk) 14:35, 25 October 2022 (UTC)