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Hi JackieLL007! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. We hope to see you there!
Delivered HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts |
Hi, I see you are working on the PNH article. Just a note to be careful about how much detail and promo stuff you add; we have to maintain neutrality and are also not a how-to manual, but a brief overview of each game and level is fine. If you're interested in learning the guidelines for horse articles, you can join WP:WikiProject Equine. You can also ask on my talk (neigh) page if you are having trouble. For an example of what we strive for in the horse/horse people articles, you can see the following articles, which have all reached WP:GA or WP:FA status:
It's best not to include too much personal testimony unless it comes from a well-known person, like a national champion rider. If you have questions, please let me know. White Arabian Filly ( Neigh) 23:19, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
It's probably easier to discuss WP editing on your page than my rather busy one. While anyone can edit wikipedia, anyone else can also alter, delete, or otherwise change what you write. I'd like to see if you are willing to work within the standards of wikipedia and if so, both myself and White Arabian Filly would be willing to guide you along.
To reply, you can just click the "edit" tab and open the entire page if the section editing link isn't visible to you; I am sincere in being willing to help you learn to edit WP; I am equally sincere that WP is not a platform for a single-issue writer who only wants to use this site to "preach the gospel." It's your call, we are all volunteers here. Montanabw (talk) 19:11, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
Whom did I attack? And why can't I edit just one article, especially to start with?
And what it the world is wrong with edu-tainment? There's a lot of "edu" in what is taught in PNH. Is it a blemish that it's also interesting?
Next, being a novice isn't tantamount to being stupid. One of the first things I did was admit to being a novice on WP, for gosh sakes. In response to that, you tagged me with "talk page stalker" because I wasn't sure how to reply to a message correctly. Was that nice?
Moreover, having expertise isn't the same as being "smart." It simply means you've put in quality time developing understanding of/facility with something. The article that I initially encountered did not have anything resembling any depth of understanding of PNH. One would hope that those editing articles would have familiarity with the subject.
I didn't "preach the gospel." I described the 7 Games briefly. I described the four savvys briefly. Why were these deleted? If there were parts that had an overly positive slant, those could have been clipped, instead of the entirety of my contribution being jammed in the trash can.
You mention "neutral tone and a balanced view." How is it balanced to have 1 sentence of barely positive perspective followed by 7 *paragraphs* of blasting PNH?
I appreciate that WP means a lot to you and that you want it to be neutral. I would point out that your bias against Parelli is interfering with a balanced presentation.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 19:53, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
WAF,
Thanks. That sounds reasonable. I'm willing to put in controversy as long as rebuttal can be included as well. As for COI, I don't make any money training horses or people on PNH.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 19:56, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
After deleting essentially the entirety of my additions on the Parelli NH page, you (inter alia) offered your help. I asked some questions and, while you have commented since on this page, you largely ignored my questions.
Will you answer them, please?
JackieLL007 ( talk) 22:00, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
I’m sorry that this is your approach to new contributors to Wikipedia.
Let me address your response to my questions by way of analogy:
What I’m saying is this: evidence matters. If you can’t support your assertions, don’t make them.
About a week ago, I made my FIRST-EVER edit to a WP page, which took a couple of hours to write. Two days later, you apparently deleted the entirety of it. You also threw quite a few unsupported - and untrue - accusations my way. I asked what you meant, as in “please provide a factual basis for your assertions.” You didn’t bother to answer, instead resorting to more general statements about policy.
Next, in the same breath that you extol the principle of “neutral point of view” (which is unquestionably crucial to an encyclopedia), you also present as fact your opinion repeatedly, including, “the comparisons to other cult of personality programs is [sic] apt” and “their horsemanship is, at best, average.” You clearly believe those statements and, from your actions (deleting positive material while leaving uncited negative material intact), I suspect you would like the WP page to reflect your bias.
Finally, I would like to point out three other WP links with which you may be familiar:
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Etiquette /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
Respond to this if you must but my impression is that you fancy yourself the “old guard” and therefore superior in right to any newcomer, especially one with whom you disagree so fervently. I came here for “writing and citing” not “writing, citing, biting, inciting and fighting” and, thus, I cannot assume that further conclusory unpleasantness will warrant a response from me.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 18:28, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
When I used the term "old guard," I contrasted it with term "newcomer." As I have already stated that I have significant horse experience covering many years, I would have expected it to be clear that I was again referring to my status as a newcomer to WP.
I notice that my questions remain unanswered.
In other news, I have the afternoon off. I'm going to go play with my mare. Have a nice day.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 20:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
WAF,
Thank you. I'll keep on keepin' on. :)
JackieLL007 ( talk) 20:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for adding to the Parelli page, but when you add a website as a reference you can use ref tags like this: <ref>http://www.url.com/page</ref>. Then they can be filled in later with the Refill tool. Just don't use the nowiki tags, those are for demo purposes only. The ref tags make the reference appear within the body of text as the little blue number in brackets. It appears fully in the reflist at the bottom of the article. White Arabian Filly ( Neigh) 16:41, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Just a note that when you make a new section header, use two equal signs (=) on either end of a word--it makes it a more manageable size and is the standard. Some of the history/humanitarian stuff you put at PNH could also go in the Pat Parelli article. (If close to half of it gets to be about Linda, it'll probably be moved to Pat and Linda Parelli.) Also, where it said "Craig Johnson (disambiguation needed)" that meant that we have an article on a non-horsey CJ (hockey player, I think) and need an article on the horsey one. Thanks for your edits. White Arabian Filly ( Neigh) 00:15, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Parelli Natural Horsemanship, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Craig Johnson. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot ( talk) 12:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. It looks like Cordless Larry left you a helpful welcome message. I like to use a more detailed one that gives more detail and can serve as a reference: The more detailed welcome is here for reference
I hope you don't mind if I share some of my thoughts on starting out as a new editor on Wikipedia: If I could get editors in your situation to follow just one piece of advice, it would be this: Learn Wikipedia by working only on non-contentious topics until you have a feel for the normal editing process and the policies that usually come up when editing casually. You'll find editing to be fun, easy, and rewarding. The rare disputes are resolved quickly and easily.
Working on biographical information about living persons is far more difficult. Wikipedia's Biographies of living persons policy requires strict adherence to multiple content policies, and applies to all information about living persons including talk pages.
If you have a relationship with the topics you want to edit, then you will need to review Wikipedia's Conflict of interest policy, which may require you to disclose your relationship and restrict your editing depending upon how you are affiliated with the subject matter.
Some topic areas within Wikipedia have special editing restrictions that apply to all editors. It's best to avoid these topics until you are extremely familiar with all relevant policies and guidelines.
I hope you find some useful information in all this, and welcome again. -- Ronz ( talk) 22:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello, and
welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be engaged in an
edit war with one or more editors according to your reverts at
Parelli Natural Horsemanship. Although repeatedly
reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the
normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a
consensus on the
talk page.
If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to lose editing privileges. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a loss of editing privileges.
You need to stop easing unfavorable material and inserting overly promotional material, WP:NPOV is clear that wikipedia is not an advertising platform Montanabw (talk) 05:06, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
Please do not attribute my motives. (FWIW I've read Parelli's book cover to cover and Miller's too, I am not unfamiliar with their material) There are other editors now reviewing the article who are completely neutral and from their work, I think you will see that I bent over backwards to try and accommodate some of the material you wanted to add. Just because you claim that you are not being paid to edit the article does not free you from being on a soapbox that prevents you from objective editing. I am not "smearing" Parelli, I have only pointed out that there are some uncomfortable truths about his program. Montanabw (talk) 00:14, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
I appreciate it when others give me specifics. If you would like to give me some specifics (again, which I have requested numerous times), I will be happy to discuss them. The "I really don't think you see" comments, without specifics, only leads to more of the aforementioned "walls of text" and questions about just what in the blue blazes you're talking about.
Finally, a summary of the above: SPECIFICS, PLEASE. JackieLL007 ( talk) 20:13, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello, JackieLL007. We
welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things
you have written about in the article
Parelli Natural Horsemanship, you may have a
conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the
conflict of interest guideline and
FAQ for organizations for more information. In particular, please:
In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).
Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, sourcing and autobiographies. Thank you. Theroadislong ( talk) 20:44, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
I think where we are going off the tracks is the distinction between paid editing and a single purpose account. You have single-purpose account (explained at WP:SPA). Perhaps Wikipedia:Advocacy will explain further. Although I initially thought you were a paid editor, I actually do believe you when you say you are not. However, your behavior is still not acceptable and I don't know how to get you to step back and see that. Perhaps try editing additional articles in an area where you have knowledge but less strong emotions and see how that goes and if you can recognize how NPOV works. Your actions so far fit those of editors who are WP:NOTHERE to improve the encyclopedia, but rather to simply use it as a platform to advance a cause. If you want to promote Parelli, I suggest you start a blog or something. If you want to build an encyclopedia that is verifiable and with a neutral point of view, then learn how it works. You are welcome to contribute usable content that is within policy and fits the guidelines. Montanabw (talk) 03:35, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
If "general frustration" were my criterion for swearing on WP, my replies to you might well consist of as much swearing as constructive language. Let's not do that.
This is an unpleasant situation. Perhaps you think I created it. In turn, I believe that it is your persistent POV editing and attitude of ownership towards the PNH page that has caused it. You are free to think that Pat Parelli is a "huckster" and a "flimflam artist" (your words), but you should not be editing Wikipedia to reflect your views.
As for "assuming," so far you have assumed:
As for editing anything other than the PNH article, 1) that is not a requirement, 2) I already have, 3) I would have spent more time doing useful editing had I not been subjected to ongoing and unwarranted nastiness from you and 4) you might "like to see if [I] can edit anything other than the Parelli article"; in contrast, I would like to see if you could cease editing with a marked negative slant and/or modify your years-long ownership behavior at the PNH article. JackieLL007 ( talk) 13:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
You say "[y]ou ask for specifics." Yes, I do. That's what we're supposed to be discussing -- the edits. Usually, I don't get specifics from you. If you want an example of what I mean by "specifics," I would refer you to some of Bishonen's comments to me, e.g., that "currently" shouldn't be used in an encyclopedia. It was a good point. So, I removed the two instances of "currently" that I found.
You add "and then argue about them." Most of the arguing has been over you inundating me with untrue assertions of COI (along with SPA, POV pushing, copyright infringement, and such -- and, perhaps notably, you calling something I added a "flat-out lie" despite that it was taken directly and accurately from a mainstream publication.) One of the few times that you have done me the courtesy of specifics -- "first university of its kind" and "university status" -- I have researched your assertions and concluded that both pieces of text were better omitted, as you wanted. I did this despite that both assertions were taken directly from a mainstream publication.
You say, "I've explained the problems to you over and over again and you are choosing not to listen." I reply: I have listened. I have read the articles to which you directed me. I understand and agree to Wikipedia's policies. I simply do not agree with your interpretations of them, most particularly whichever ones you are citing to support your demand that I quit editing the PNH article. There's a big difference.
You say, "You can make unwarranted assumptions about other people and twist what they say." I reply: I made one assumption. It was that your negative opinions stemmed from your reading of Pat Parelli's book. It was 1) reasonable. You had mentioned several times that you had read the book. It was also 2) substantively irrelevant. Who cares why you have the opinions that you do? It's irrelevant to editing. (And, to that point, even though I mentioned it in passing to orient Bishonen to the dispute and the backgrounds of the parties, it probably could have gone unmentioned.)
As for "twisting" what others say, I have not done that. The book reference above aside, I don't recall having made any assumptions. On the other hand, in addition to the unwarranted and incorrect accusations you make loudly and repeatedly about my motivations, you have rather snidely characterized me as "sad" about your bad behavior (don't presume to know what I'm thinking) and, also rather snidely, stated that I "still feel[] that we are 'slandering' a great man" (as I've said -- I don't much care what you say about either of the Parellis). Interestingly enough, the second comment is two assumptions in one -- 1) that I felt before like you were slandering him before and 2) that I still felt that way.
Finally, you end with, "I'm done beating my head against the wall. Others can try to educate you, at this point, as far as I am concerned, I am done trying to teach a brick wall. You can either edit properly or get reverted. You can make unwarranted assumptions about other people and twist what they say or you can grow up." There are so many things wrong with that insulting statement that -- other than to say that I heartily welcome civilly stated pointers from experienced Wikipedians -- I don't even know where to start. So, I won't. JackieLL007 ( talk) 15:04, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
|
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Hi JackieLL007! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. We hope to see you there!
Delivered HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts |
Hi, I see you are working on the PNH article. Just a note to be careful about how much detail and promo stuff you add; we have to maintain neutrality and are also not a how-to manual, but a brief overview of each game and level is fine. If you're interested in learning the guidelines for horse articles, you can join WP:WikiProject Equine. You can also ask on my talk (neigh) page if you are having trouble. For an example of what we strive for in the horse/horse people articles, you can see the following articles, which have all reached WP:GA or WP:FA status:
It's best not to include too much personal testimony unless it comes from a well-known person, like a national champion rider. If you have questions, please let me know. White Arabian Filly ( Neigh) 23:19, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
It's probably easier to discuss WP editing on your page than my rather busy one. While anyone can edit wikipedia, anyone else can also alter, delete, or otherwise change what you write. I'd like to see if you are willing to work within the standards of wikipedia and if so, both myself and White Arabian Filly would be willing to guide you along.
To reply, you can just click the "edit" tab and open the entire page if the section editing link isn't visible to you; I am sincere in being willing to help you learn to edit WP; I am equally sincere that WP is not a platform for a single-issue writer who only wants to use this site to "preach the gospel." It's your call, we are all volunteers here. Montanabw (talk) 19:11, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
Whom did I attack? And why can't I edit just one article, especially to start with?
And what it the world is wrong with edu-tainment? There's a lot of "edu" in what is taught in PNH. Is it a blemish that it's also interesting?
Next, being a novice isn't tantamount to being stupid. One of the first things I did was admit to being a novice on WP, for gosh sakes. In response to that, you tagged me with "talk page stalker" because I wasn't sure how to reply to a message correctly. Was that nice?
Moreover, having expertise isn't the same as being "smart." It simply means you've put in quality time developing understanding of/facility with something. The article that I initially encountered did not have anything resembling any depth of understanding of PNH. One would hope that those editing articles would have familiarity with the subject.
I didn't "preach the gospel." I described the 7 Games briefly. I described the four savvys briefly. Why were these deleted? If there were parts that had an overly positive slant, those could have been clipped, instead of the entirety of my contribution being jammed in the trash can.
You mention "neutral tone and a balanced view." How is it balanced to have 1 sentence of barely positive perspective followed by 7 *paragraphs* of blasting PNH?
I appreciate that WP means a lot to you and that you want it to be neutral. I would point out that your bias against Parelli is interfering with a balanced presentation.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 19:53, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
WAF,
Thanks. That sounds reasonable. I'm willing to put in controversy as long as rebuttal can be included as well. As for COI, I don't make any money training horses or people on PNH.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 19:56, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
After deleting essentially the entirety of my additions on the Parelli NH page, you (inter alia) offered your help. I asked some questions and, while you have commented since on this page, you largely ignored my questions.
Will you answer them, please?
JackieLL007 ( talk) 22:00, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
I’m sorry that this is your approach to new contributors to Wikipedia.
Let me address your response to my questions by way of analogy:
What I’m saying is this: evidence matters. If you can’t support your assertions, don’t make them.
About a week ago, I made my FIRST-EVER edit to a WP page, which took a couple of hours to write. Two days later, you apparently deleted the entirety of it. You also threw quite a few unsupported - and untrue - accusations my way. I asked what you meant, as in “please provide a factual basis for your assertions.” You didn’t bother to answer, instead resorting to more general statements about policy.
Next, in the same breath that you extol the principle of “neutral point of view” (which is unquestionably crucial to an encyclopedia), you also present as fact your opinion repeatedly, including, “the comparisons to other cult of personality programs is [sic] apt” and “their horsemanship is, at best, average.” You clearly believe those statements and, from your actions (deleting positive material while leaving uncited negative material intact), I suspect you would like the WP page to reflect your bias.
Finally, I would like to point out three other WP links with which you may be familiar:
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Etiquette /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
Respond to this if you must but my impression is that you fancy yourself the “old guard” and therefore superior in right to any newcomer, especially one with whom you disagree so fervently. I came here for “writing and citing” not “writing, citing, biting, inciting and fighting” and, thus, I cannot assume that further conclusory unpleasantness will warrant a response from me.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 18:28, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Montanabw,
When I used the term "old guard," I contrasted it with term "newcomer." As I have already stated that I have significant horse experience covering many years, I would have expected it to be clear that I was again referring to my status as a newcomer to WP.
I notice that my questions remain unanswered.
In other news, I have the afternoon off. I'm going to go play with my mare. Have a nice day.
JackieLL007 ( talk) 20:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
WAF,
Thank you. I'll keep on keepin' on. :)
JackieLL007 ( talk) 20:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for adding to the Parelli page, but when you add a website as a reference you can use ref tags like this: <ref>http://www.url.com/page</ref>. Then they can be filled in later with the Refill tool. Just don't use the nowiki tags, those are for demo purposes only. The ref tags make the reference appear within the body of text as the little blue number in brackets. It appears fully in the reflist at the bottom of the article. White Arabian Filly ( Neigh) 16:41, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Just a note that when you make a new section header, use two equal signs (=) on either end of a word--it makes it a more manageable size and is the standard. Some of the history/humanitarian stuff you put at PNH could also go in the Pat Parelli article. (If close to half of it gets to be about Linda, it'll probably be moved to Pat and Linda Parelli.) Also, where it said "Craig Johnson (disambiguation needed)" that meant that we have an article on a non-horsey CJ (hockey player, I think) and need an article on the horsey one. Thanks for your edits. White Arabian Filly ( Neigh) 00:15, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Parelli Natural Horsemanship, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Craig Johnson. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot ( talk) 12:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. It looks like Cordless Larry left you a helpful welcome message. I like to use a more detailed one that gives more detail and can serve as a reference: The more detailed welcome is here for reference
I hope you don't mind if I share some of my thoughts on starting out as a new editor on Wikipedia: If I could get editors in your situation to follow just one piece of advice, it would be this: Learn Wikipedia by working only on non-contentious topics until you have a feel for the normal editing process and the policies that usually come up when editing casually. You'll find editing to be fun, easy, and rewarding. The rare disputes are resolved quickly and easily.
Working on biographical information about living persons is far more difficult. Wikipedia's Biographies of living persons policy requires strict adherence to multiple content policies, and applies to all information about living persons including talk pages.
If you have a relationship with the topics you want to edit, then you will need to review Wikipedia's Conflict of interest policy, which may require you to disclose your relationship and restrict your editing depending upon how you are affiliated with the subject matter.
Some topic areas within Wikipedia have special editing restrictions that apply to all editors. It's best to avoid these topics until you are extremely familiar with all relevant policies and guidelines.
I hope you find some useful information in all this, and welcome again. -- Ronz ( talk) 22:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello, and
welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be engaged in an
edit war with one or more editors according to your reverts at
Parelli Natural Horsemanship. Although repeatedly
reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the
normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a
consensus on the
talk page.
If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to lose editing privileges. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a loss of editing privileges.
You need to stop easing unfavorable material and inserting overly promotional material, WP:NPOV is clear that wikipedia is not an advertising platform Montanabw (talk) 05:06, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
Please do not attribute my motives. (FWIW I've read Parelli's book cover to cover and Miller's too, I am not unfamiliar with their material) There are other editors now reviewing the article who are completely neutral and from their work, I think you will see that I bent over backwards to try and accommodate some of the material you wanted to add. Just because you claim that you are not being paid to edit the article does not free you from being on a soapbox that prevents you from objective editing. I am not "smearing" Parelli, I have only pointed out that there are some uncomfortable truths about his program. Montanabw (talk) 00:14, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
I appreciate it when others give me specifics. If you would like to give me some specifics (again, which I have requested numerous times), I will be happy to discuss them. The "I really don't think you see" comments, without specifics, only leads to more of the aforementioned "walls of text" and questions about just what in the blue blazes you're talking about.
Finally, a summary of the above: SPECIFICS, PLEASE. JackieLL007 ( talk) 20:13, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello, JackieLL007. We
welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things
you have written about in the article
Parelli Natural Horsemanship, you may have a
conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the
conflict of interest guideline and
FAQ for organizations for more information. In particular, please:
In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).
Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, sourcing and autobiographies. Thank you. Theroadislong ( talk) 20:44, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
I think where we are going off the tracks is the distinction between paid editing and a single purpose account. You have single-purpose account (explained at WP:SPA). Perhaps Wikipedia:Advocacy will explain further. Although I initially thought you were a paid editor, I actually do believe you when you say you are not. However, your behavior is still not acceptable and I don't know how to get you to step back and see that. Perhaps try editing additional articles in an area where you have knowledge but less strong emotions and see how that goes and if you can recognize how NPOV works. Your actions so far fit those of editors who are WP:NOTHERE to improve the encyclopedia, but rather to simply use it as a platform to advance a cause. If you want to promote Parelli, I suggest you start a blog or something. If you want to build an encyclopedia that is verifiable and with a neutral point of view, then learn how it works. You are welcome to contribute usable content that is within policy and fits the guidelines. Montanabw (talk) 03:35, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
If "general frustration" were my criterion for swearing on WP, my replies to you might well consist of as much swearing as constructive language. Let's not do that.
This is an unpleasant situation. Perhaps you think I created it. In turn, I believe that it is your persistent POV editing and attitude of ownership towards the PNH page that has caused it. You are free to think that Pat Parelli is a "huckster" and a "flimflam artist" (your words), but you should not be editing Wikipedia to reflect your views.
As for "assuming," so far you have assumed:
As for editing anything other than the PNH article, 1) that is not a requirement, 2) I already have, 3) I would have spent more time doing useful editing had I not been subjected to ongoing and unwarranted nastiness from you and 4) you might "like to see if [I] can edit anything other than the Parelli article"; in contrast, I would like to see if you could cease editing with a marked negative slant and/or modify your years-long ownership behavior at the PNH article. JackieLL007 ( talk) 13:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
You say "[y]ou ask for specifics." Yes, I do. That's what we're supposed to be discussing -- the edits. Usually, I don't get specifics from you. If you want an example of what I mean by "specifics," I would refer you to some of Bishonen's comments to me, e.g., that "currently" shouldn't be used in an encyclopedia. It was a good point. So, I removed the two instances of "currently" that I found.
You add "and then argue about them." Most of the arguing has been over you inundating me with untrue assertions of COI (along with SPA, POV pushing, copyright infringement, and such -- and, perhaps notably, you calling something I added a "flat-out lie" despite that it was taken directly and accurately from a mainstream publication.) One of the few times that you have done me the courtesy of specifics -- "first university of its kind" and "university status" -- I have researched your assertions and concluded that both pieces of text were better omitted, as you wanted. I did this despite that both assertions were taken directly from a mainstream publication.
You say, "I've explained the problems to you over and over again and you are choosing not to listen." I reply: I have listened. I have read the articles to which you directed me. I understand and agree to Wikipedia's policies. I simply do not agree with your interpretations of them, most particularly whichever ones you are citing to support your demand that I quit editing the PNH article. There's a big difference.
You say, "You can make unwarranted assumptions about other people and twist what they say." I reply: I made one assumption. It was that your negative opinions stemmed from your reading of Pat Parelli's book. It was 1) reasonable. You had mentioned several times that you had read the book. It was also 2) substantively irrelevant. Who cares why you have the opinions that you do? It's irrelevant to editing. (And, to that point, even though I mentioned it in passing to orient Bishonen to the dispute and the backgrounds of the parties, it probably could have gone unmentioned.)
As for "twisting" what others say, I have not done that. The book reference above aside, I don't recall having made any assumptions. On the other hand, in addition to the unwarranted and incorrect accusations you make loudly and repeatedly about my motivations, you have rather snidely characterized me as "sad" about your bad behavior (don't presume to know what I'm thinking) and, also rather snidely, stated that I "still feel[] that we are 'slandering' a great man" (as I've said -- I don't much care what you say about either of the Parellis). Interestingly enough, the second comment is two assumptions in one -- 1) that I felt before like you were slandering him before and 2) that I still felt that way.
Finally, you end with, "I'm done beating my head against the wall. Others can try to educate you, at this point, as far as I am concerned, I am done trying to teach a brick wall. You can either edit properly or get reverted. You can make unwarranted assumptions about other people and twist what they say or you can grow up." There are so many things wrong with that insulting statement that -- other than to say that I heartily welcome civilly stated pointers from experienced Wikipedians -- I don't even know where to start. So, I won't. JackieLL007 ( talk) 15:04, 4 March 2016 (UTC)