The New Iron Curtain - By Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan https://cepa.org/comprehensive-reports/the-new-iron-curtain-2 June 7, 2022

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List of national capitals by latitude

55.76 Moscow Russia

55.95 Edinburgh Scotland

56.95 Riga Latvia

59.33 Stockholm Sweden

59.44 Tallinn Estonia

59.91 Oslo Norway

60.17 Helsinki Finland

64.15 Reykjavík Iceland Northernmost capital of an independent sovereign state in the world.

Welcome to Wikipedia. Unfortunately, content you added to Talk:Assassination of John F. Kennedy appears to be a minority or fringe viewpoint, and appears to have given undue weight to this minority viewpoint, and has been reverted. To maintain a neutral point of view, an idea that is not broadly supported by scholarship in its field must not be given undue weight in an article about a mainstream idea. Feel free to use the article's talk page to discuss this, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Leonidlednev ( T, C, L) 16:49, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Response:

Regarding: Interview with Tucker Carlson - Ex-CIA Agent Felix Rodriguez on Che Guevara death ==

You reverted this edit, have you watched the interview?:

To add to the article?

Ex-CIA Agent on Capturing Che Guevara, Who Truly Killed JFK, and Election Predictions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwohQJrJeo8&ab_channel=TuckerCarlson

Che Guevara was executed in 1967 in a remote Bolivian village. One of the last people to speak to him alive was CIA officer Felix Rodriguez (former CIA agent). Here’s his story.

Felix Rodriguez worked for the CIA until 1976.

Found at: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk:Leonidlednev&oldid=1222738077

Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 16:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

South Park

Officer Barbrady - There's nothing to see here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6RWSiR88s&ab_channel=MiamiBadBoyBOSS

Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 18:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Please be aware of WP:NOTFORUM. Article talk pages are not the appropriate place to put random cartoon clips. If you feel the need for additional memes and off-topic chatter please go to Twitter. If you want advise about how to do basic formatting such as quoted text you can visit WP:TEAHOUSE. Please restrict discussion on article talk pages exclusively to the topic of article content. Simonm223 ( talk) 18:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

RE: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Che_Guevara&oldid=1222754685

Interview with Tucker Carlson - Ex-CIA Agent Felix Rodriguez on Che Guevara death ==

Ex-CIA Agent on Capturing Che Guevara, Who Truly Killed JFK, and Election Predictions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwohQJrJeo8&ab_channel=TuckerCarlson

Che Guevara was executed in 1967 in a remote Bolivian village. One of the last people to speak to him alive was CIA officer Felix Rodriguez (former CIA agent). Here’s his story.

Felix Rodriguez worked for the CIA until 1976.

Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 16:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

That's not a reliable source. Simonm223 ( talk) 16:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

It is his own testimony!!! Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

That's not how WP:ABOUTSELF works. Simonm223 ( talk) 16:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Edit conflict, "please provide the acronym that supports your logic". LOL. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Specifically see points 1 and 2:

1. The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim 2. It does not involve claims about third parties; Simonm223 ( talk) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Wow, you know how to make pretty colored text. I am impressed. LOL. Thanks for making my day, User:Simonm223 LOL. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 17:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

South Park

Officer Barbrady - There's nothing to see here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6RWSiR88s&ab_channel=MiamiBadBoyBOSS

Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 18:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC) reply

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Useful sources for future work

• Unheard Voice: Evaluating five years of pro-Western covert influence operations

"Our joint investigation found an interconnected web of accounts on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and five other social media platforms that used deceptive tactics to promote pro-Western narratives in the Middle East and Central Asia. The platforms’ datasets appear to cover a series of covert campaigns over aperiod of almost five years rather than one homogeneous operation. These campaigns consistently advanced narratives promoting the interests of the United States and its allies while opposing countries including Russia, China, and Iran. The accounts heavily criticized Russia in particular for the deaths of innocent civilians and other atrocities its soldiers committed in pursuit of the Kremlin’s “imperial ambitions” following its invasion of Ukraine in February this year. To promote this and other narratives, the accounts sometimes shared news articles from U.S. government-funded media outlets, such as Voice of America and Radio Free Europe, and links to websites sponsored by the U.S. military. A portion of the activity also promoted anti-extremism messaging."

• Propaganda for foreigners reaches US public: Pentagon

"The Pentagon acknowledged in a newly declassified document released on Thursday that the US public is increasingly exposed to propaganda disseminated overseas in psychological operations. But the document suggests that the Pentagon believes the US law that prohibits exposing the public to propaganda does not apply to the unintended blowback from such operations."

• Twitter Aided The Pentagon in its Covert Online Propaganda Campaign

"Behind the scenes, however, the social networking giant provided direct approval and internal protection to the U.S. military’s network of social media accounts and online personas, whitelisting a batch of accounts at the request of the government. The Pentagon has used this network, which includes U.S. government-generated news portals and memes, in an effort to shape opinion in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, and beyond."

• Let’s Get America Out of the Propaganda Racket

"I also anticipate objections from those who might cringe at the VOA and its sister institutions being called purveyors of propaganda. The people will bend over backward as they explain how the VOA “firewall” and charter preserve the service’s independence and journalistic credibility. This, of course, is a crock. With one swift swing of his leather-soled shoe, Trump has breached the firewall and smashed its alleged independence, although a lawsuit to block Pack is in the works. As Ralph A. Uttaro wrote in a law journal in 1982, “The Voice of America, no less than Radio Moscow or Radio Prague, endeavors to change the attitudes of its listeners.” Yes, it informs, but the main idea is frame the news to the U.S. government’s benefit. If the only goal was to inform, the government could save everybody a lot of money and bother by rebroadcasting The Associated Press."

• We are all propagandists now

• Propaganda in America: How to Recognize and Defend Against it

• Understanding Media Propaganda in the 21st Century: Manufacturing Consent Revisited and Revised by Simon Foley. Published by Cambridge Scholars Publishing.

"...the election of Trump in 2016 constitutes the proverbial ‘year zero’ for fourth estate journalism. As a result of the ‘journalistic’ cultural revolution that ensued, it argues that the Propaganda Model needs to be overhauled if it is to retain its epistemological bona fides."

• The Propaganda Model and Manufacturing Consent: U.S. Public Compliance and Resistance by Anthony R. DiMaggio. Published by Cambridge University Press

• Governing The News: The News Media as a Political Institution by Timothy E. Cook. Published by University of Chicago Press.

"This book seeks to show how the news media are recognizable as a political institution: because of their historical development, because of shared processes and predictable products across news organizations, and because of the way in which the work of newspersons is so intertwined with the work of official Washington that the news itself performs governmental tasks."

• Mass Media as Political Actors. by Benjamin I. Page. Published by Cambridge University Press

"I want to focus, however, on a different way in which media organizations might seek to influence policy: the indirect approach of using their publications or broadcasts to try and change the beliefs and policy preferences of mass and/or elite audiences, which would presumably affect subsequent policy decisions. This indirect approach might be especially attractive to media organizations because of their special positions as key disseminators of political information. Its use could have important implications for the nature of democratic deliberation." - pg. 20

• The People's News: Media, Politics, and the Demands of Capitalism

• Self Censorship: How Often and Why - Journalists Avoiding the News

• Wikipedia and the Meaning of Truth. Published by MIT Technology Review.

"Unlike the laws of mathematics or science, wikitruth isn’t based on principles such as consistency or observa­bility. It’s not even based on common sense or firsthand experience. Wikipedia has evolved a radically different set of epistemological standards–standards that aren’t especially surprising given that the site is rooted in a Web-based community, but that should concern those of us who are interested in traditional notions of truth and accuracy."

"So what is Truth? According to Wikipedia’s entry on the subject, “the term has no single definition about which the majority of professional philosophers and scholars agree.” But in practice, Wikipedia’s standard for inclusion has become its de facto standard for truth, and since Wikipedia is the most widely read online reference on the planet, it’s the standard of truth that most people are implicitly using when they type a search term into Google or Yahoo. On Wikipedia, truth is received truth: the consensus view of a subject. That standard is simple: something is true if it was published in a newspaper article, a magazine or journal, or a book published by a university press–or if it appeared on Dr. Who"

• WP:NOT, WP:NPOV, and Other Stories Wikipedia Tells Us: A Feminist Critique of Wikipedia's Epistemology. Published in Science, Technology, & Human Values.

"Wikipedia has become a ubiquitous source of information and, subsequently, the layperson’s reference: it is a concrete representation of common knowledge. Interrogating Wikipedia then can also be a way of interrogating a manifestation of how “facts” are made in the public sphere."

"To begin, many analytical philosophers have considered the epistemic effects of Wikipedia upon readers, particularly concerning reliability (e.g., Fallis 2008; Magnus 2009). Reliability has been a primary topic of investigation and concern for scholars writing about applied epistemology: the study of whether systems of investigation purporting to be seeking the truth are engineered to lead to true beliefs about the world (Laudan 2006). Other scholars have considered how Wikipedia functions as an example of group testimony (Tollefsen 2009) and, yet, has a different epistemic culture of knowledge production than, say, science because contributors have different goals, collaborate under different norms, and have different motivations (Wray 2009). In our critique and reimagining of the five pillars, we are concerned with reliability as it relates to the processes by which knowledge is produced on the site and who is excluded from these processes. We ask similar questions about Wikipedia as others have. However, we are interested mostly in Wikipedia’s mismatch in explicit and implicit values and how this mismatch impacts the ability of the site to function as “the sum of all human knowledge.”"

Iraq WMD Story

• Journalism Studies - Judith Miller, The New York Times, and the Propaganda Model

• The Journal of International Communication - The propaganda model: a test of human rights reporting in The New York Times

• The Guardian - New York Times: we were wrong on Iraq

• Rolling Stone - 16 Years Later, How the Press That Sold the Iraq War Got Away With It

• PBS - The New York Times WMD Coverage

• Media Matters for America = How The Iraq War Still Haunts New York Times

• The New York Times - FROM THE EDITORS; The Times and Iraq

• Observer - Judith Miller Carried Water for the USA's Worst Debacle Since Vietnam

• The New York Review of Books - Now They Tell Us

• FAIR - 20 Years Later, NYT Still Can't Face Its Iraq War Shame

Israel/Gaza

• The Nation - The Nixonion New York Times Stonewalls on a Discredited Article About Hamas and Rape

• The Intercept - Leaked NYT Gaza Memo Tells Journalists To Avoid Words "Genocide", "Ethnic Cleansing", and "Occupied Territory"

• The Intercept - Between the Hammer and the Anvil: The Story Behind the New York Times October 7 Exposé

• Al Jazeera - The unravelling of the New York Times 'Hamas rape' story

• Yes! Magazine - Claims of Mass Rape by Hamas Unravel Upon Investigation

• Coverage of Gaza War in The New York Times And Other Major Newspapers Heavily Favored Israel, Analysis Shows

• The Hill - NYT pulls Hamas rape story from podcast over internal turmoil over shoddy reporting: Max Blumenthal

Trans Issues

• Nieman Lab - The New York Times Failed to Quote Trans People in Two-Thirds of Stories on Anti-Trans Legislation

• "We must confess that our adversaries have a marked advantage over us in the discussion. In very few words they can announce a half-truth; and in order to demonstrate that it is incomplete, we are obliged to have recourse to long and dry dissertations." —  Frédéric Bastiat

• "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, former CIA Director

• "“It makes all the difference in the world whether we put Truth in the first place or in the second place.” - Richard Whately

• "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

• " "Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime."

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Doug Weller talk 10:33, 15 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi Ironcurtain,

Thanks for stopping by my talk page and sharing some of your thoughts and observations. If you look at the top right-hand corner of my user page & my talk page, you will see an "email" button. I would appreciate it if you would send me an email. I want to share a couple of things with you that may not be appropriate for posting on Wikipedia. Thanks. Philomathes2357 ( talk) 22:01, 19 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I understand 100%, but I dont have email set up, nor do i plan on setting up e-mail, for a variety of reasons, maybe that is stupid on my part, probably stupid on my part. I have been lurking for many many many months and I finally decided to create this account. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 23:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC) reply

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because it appears that you are not here to build an encyclopedia.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.   ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 23:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC) reply

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Ironcurtain2 ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))

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Request reason:

Good evening, I am new to editing here, so sorry if I do this wrong. Thank you for patrolling wikipedia and making it a great source for Encyclopedic knowledge.

I am in fact, here to build an encyclopedia. My edit history shows that I am adding information to a number of articles. I am concerned that if I provide an edit history, that my edits will simply be deleted. I have had a mere 306 edits on Wikipedia so far. I am learning the ropes.

User:Philomathes2357 and User:Bobfrombrockley are 2 Veteran Editors who have been teaching me how to edit. Thanks User:Bobfrombrockley. Free IronCurtain2.:)

I am excited to learn how Wikipedia works and to contribute more to this wonderful website in the future. Thank you very much, Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 05:15, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Decline reason:

Your edit history is already accessible and public; you don't need to provide it. Clearly edits related to the US intelligence community are a sore spot for you; you won't be unblocked to, at this time, edit in that area. If you want to make edits in other topic areas, please tell what those are. 331dot ( talk) 08:17, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

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This user is asking that their block be reviewed:

Ironcurtain2 ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))

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Request reason:

Of course, thank you 331dot. I apologize if I caused any problems. The other subjects I have an interest in are, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, science, & psychology is something that I am very interested in, particularly the new book, The Singularity Is Nearer. Cloning, Nature versus nurture, Twin Studies, Hindsight bias, religion, for example, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, and current science around this. Space travel, and television series such as the series For All Mankind. Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction, both in books and in movies, such as The Road. I would be happy to provide more fields of interest. Thank you for your hard work and reviewing my case, User:331dot. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 15:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

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{{unblock reviewed |1=Of course, thank you 331dot. I apologize if I caused any problems. The other subjects I have an interest in are, [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]], science, & psychology is something that I am very interested in, particularly the new book, [[The Singularity Is Nearer]]. [[Cloning]], [[Nature versus nurture]], [[Twin study|Twin Studies]], [[Hindsight bias]], religion, for example, [[A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom]], and current science around this. Space travel, and television series such as the series [[For All Mankind]]. [[Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction]], both in books and in movies, such as [[The Road]]. I would be happy to provide more fields of interest. Thank you for your hard work and reviewing my case, [[User:331dot]]. [[User:Ironcurtain2|Ironcurtain2]] ([[User talk:Ironcurtain2#top|talk]]) 15:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

This user is asking that their block be reviewed:

Ironcurtain2 ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))

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Request reason:

I apologize for any problems or troubles that I may have caused. Administrator User:331dot. reviewed this case last week, he stated that "Clearly edits related to the US intelligence community are a sore spot for you; you won't be unblocked to, at this time, edit in that area. If you want to make edits in other topic areas, please tell what those are." I agreed to what User:331dot stated, The other subjects I have an interest in are, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, science, & psychology is something that I am very interested in, particularly the new book, The Singularity Is Nearer (which I have added links too below) and Ray Kurzweil. Cloning, Nature versus nurture, Twin Studies, Hindsight bias, religion, for example, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, and current science around this. Space travel, and television series such as the series For All Mankind. Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction, both in books and in movies, such as The Road. I would be happy to provide more fields of interest. Thank you for your hard work and reviewing my case, User:331dot. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 15:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

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{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2=I apologize for any problems or troubles that I may have caused. Administrator [[User:331dot]]. reviewed this case last week, he stated that "Clearly edits related to the US intelligence community are a sore spot for you; you won't be unblocked to, at this time, edit in that area. If you want to make edits in other topic areas, please tell what those are." I agreed to what User:331dot stated, The other subjects I have an interest in are, [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]], science, & psychology is something that I am very interested in, particularly the new book, '''[[The Singularity Is Nearer]] (which I have added links too below)''' and [[Ray Kurzweil]]. [[Cloning]], [[Nature versus nurture]], [[Twin study|Twin Studies]], [[Hindsight bias]], religion, for example, [[A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom]], and current science around this. Space travel, and television series such as the series [[For All Mankind]]. [[Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction]], both in books and in movies, such as [[The Road]]. I would be happy to provide more fields of interest. Thank you for your hard work and reviewing my case, [[User:331dot]]. [[User:Ironcurtain2|Ironcurtain2]] ([[User talk:Ironcurtain2#top|talk]]) 15:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}

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{{unblock reviewed |1=I apologize for any problems or troubles that I may have caused. Administrator [[User:331dot]]. reviewed this case last week, he stated that "Clearly edits related to the US intelligence community are a sore spot for you; you won't be unblocked to, at this time, edit in that area. If you want to make edits in other topic areas, please tell what those are." I agreed to what User:331dot stated, The other subjects I have an interest in are, [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]], science, & psychology is something that I am very interested in, particularly the new book, '''[[The Singularity Is Nearer]] (which I have added links too below)''' and [[Ray Kurzweil]]. [[Cloning]], [[Nature versus nurture]], [[Twin study|Twin Studies]], [[Hindsight bias]], religion, for example, [[A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom]], and current science around this. Space travel, and television series such as the series [[For All Mankind]]. [[Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction]], both in books and in movies, such as [[The Road]]. I would be happy to provide more fields of interest. Thank you for your hard work and reviewing my case, [[User:331dot]]. [[User:Ironcurtain2|Ironcurtain2]] ([[User talk:Ironcurtain2#top|talk]]) 15:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

@ 331dot: I would like to voice some support for a return, maybe after a month or so, to those other topic areas, but with a full topic ban for politics. They do not have the necessary CIR to vet sources for reliability, as shown by their defense of unreliable and fringe sources. In fact, anyone who defends unreliable and fringe sources should get such a topic ban from politics. Their attitude is contrary to WP:RS and WP:V. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 17:42, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I have now stricken my support for a return. I think talk page access should be blocked and the indef kept. There is no evidence of understanding or attempt to improve. Even the edit summaries, in spite of my pleadings, are still a nightmare that makes the page history hard to read. This is an abuse of the rules for edit summaries. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 21:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Thanks; I've reviewed once already, I really shouldn't again, though perhaps the blocking admin will want to weigh in on your idea. 331dot ( talk) 18:44, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I have watched for months to see the way that wikipedia works before deciding to edit. I knew it would be unpleasant with what I have seen.

Valjean has 92,000 edits, and a block log that shows the history of POV edit warring and being involved in Arbitration enforcement. [1] In contrast, I have 320 edits.

Valjean openly acknowledges his POV. I would be happy to provide link differences. His new essay, since I was blocked, just confirms his POV: User:Valjean/My media diet. And his congratulations on his talk page, of getting me indefinitely blocked with user BD2412.

I was blocked by User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish after Valjean posted that I am banned on his talk page. I do not know all of the acronyms of decades of edit warring that Valjean has learned. 2 of these editors Valjean are edit warring with currently is User:Philomathes2357 and User:Bobfrombrockley, who have also edited the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

On his talk page, User:Philomathes2357 begged him to stop speaking with what User:Philomathes2357 considered to be xenophobic language. I tried to patiently explain to Valjean, the alternative to his staunch POV. Unfortunately there appears to be zero compromise with Valjean.

Since Valjean has such a long history of edit warring, I tried to use humor on his talk page, to attempt to start a dialogue with him, to attempt to see me not as a edit warring enemy, but as a normal person that just happens to have different viewpoints. Sending a clear message to his POV editor friends, watching his page, that he wanted me to be blocked.

He deleted these posts after I carefully, systematically, pointed out on these 2 editor's talk pages how their is factual fallacies in his logic. People deal with cognitive dissonance in many ways, often, and this appears very common on Wikipedia, it is to attack the sender, as Valjean does, to everyone.

These are not fringe views. VIPS are group are former American soldiers and intelligence officers. They have risked their lives to serve their country. Many are whistleblowers who served time in prison for exposing American torture and illegal activities.

I have no problems with Valjean, or anyone else adding their own POV sourced information. Calling VIPS or any organization anti-this or pro-this is fine by me, as long as there is a source. Valjean provided sources.

What concerns me is Valjean has a long history of deleting well sourced material that does not match his own POV, not for months, but for decades. Further, it appears there are many admins that support his POV, and are willing to protect him. I drew the line when I had already posted a webpage linked to CIA Ray McGovern page on the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. He deleted it. That is where I decided, maybe foolishly, to draw the line with Valjean. I posted a 3RR tag on Valjean user talk page. [2], Which he promptly deleted, then he sent a message to his POV editor friends that I was banned from talk page. Isn't this what editors are supposed to do? Add 3RR tags to talk pages in edit disputes?

User:Philomathes2357 asked me to email him above, I want to keep everything transparent and on Wikipedia. It also appears that long term editors on Wikipedia email each other to help punish their perceived enemies.

At the very least I am happy that I have shone a small light on the way that Wikipedia really works.

I would like to believe that I will get the same treatment as Valjean does, unblocked and being able to continue to edit. Hope dies last. Thank you for listening.

Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 19:46, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

This is an extremely poor approach if you actually want to be unblocked. If you actually would like to be unblocked, rather than have your talk page access revoked, I would strongly urge you to delete your last message (and mine right here) before an administrator reads it.

And no, you've provided no evidence of editors on Wikipedia emailing each other to "help punish their perceived enemies." CoffeeCrumbs ( talk) 20:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Wow! That's quite the bad faith screed. My block log is irrelevant here, but I have explained it. My blocks were resolved and/or reversed amicably. No blocks had anything to do with "POV edit warring", and we are allowed to have POV here, just not let them enter into our editing. The insinuations against SFR are beyond the pale. We had no communication about this, so the block came as a surprise to me. I had no idea anyone was watching. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:10, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Valjean, WP:AGF. Please don't delete other editors 3RR warnings. [3] Please don't edit war. [4]

The bottom line is, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, VIPS are group are former American soldiers and intelligence officers. They have risked their lives to serve their country. Many are whistleblowers who served time in prison for exposing American torture and illegal activities. The free speech we all enjoy is in part because of the members of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

I would like to believe that I will get the same treatment as Valjean does, unblocked and being able to continue to edit. Thank you for your time and patience. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 20:22, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

As I have explained before, I have total respect for the original work of the VIPS members. They were right, but now they are wrong. RS say they are Russian apologists spreading Russian disinformation. Don't focus on their past good actions. We're dealing with their present actions. The article documents this stuff. Also, stop misusing edit summaries. Write proper, shorter ones that describe the exact edit. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:40, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Valjean, WP:AGF. Please don't delete other editors 3RR warnings. [5] Please don't edit war. [6]

The bottom line is, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, VIPS are group are former American soldiers and intelligence officers. They have risked their lives to serve their country. Many are whistleblowers who served time in prison for exposing American torture and illegal activities. The free speech we all enjoy is in part because of the members of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

I would like to believe that I will get the same treatment as Valjean does, unblocked and being able to continue to edit. Thank you for your time and patience.

At the very least, can someone please ask Valjean to go edit somewhere else while this case is being reviewed? [7] Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 20:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Valjean is perfectly allowed to remove other editors' warnings. It is explicitly allowed that editors may remove warnings from their talk pages with very few exceptions. Warnings from other editors are not part of the exceptions.

You are also only supposed to use your talk page to discuss your block and issues related to your block. Continuing a personal feud is not one of those things. CoffeeCrumbs ( talk) 21:22, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

User:CoffeeCrumbs you specifically ask me to remove the comments above, I was very dubious, but I did. I have now done what you ask. in response, you reported me to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

I am using my talk page, to discuss MY block and the issues which are related to MY block, i.e. the feud with Valjean. Please include acronyms and policy in your personal opinion.

I also note at ANI, you are using the exact same language as Valjean, calling my defense a "screed". I have seen people blocked many times for removing 3RR warnings as Valjean has done. CoffeeCrumbs, I WP:AGF and did what you asked, removing the comments you wanted me too, but now it appears clear you are forum shopping for an administrator to block me.

At least Valjean has stopped obsessively editing my talk page. [8]

I agreed to the second administrators terms about not editing controversial topics for a set period. I still do.

The core is this, I will repeat myself, again:

Valjean, WP:AGF. Please don't delete other editors 3RR warnings. [9] Please don't edit war. [10]

The bottom line is, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, VIPS are group are former American soldiers and intelligence officers. They have risked their lives to serve their country. Many are whistleblowers who served time in prison for exposing American torture and illegal activities. The free speech we all enjoy is in part because of the members of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

I would like to believe that I will get the same treatment as Valjean does, unblocked and being able to continue to edit. Thank you for your time and patience. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 22:18, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Nobody has gotten blocked for removing a warning. Blocked for 3RR, yes, but not for removing a warning. Because, again, you are completely allowed to remove notices except for a very few exceptions. WP:BLANKING is crystal clear here. CoffeeCrumbs ( talk) 22:25, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Hello, Ironcurtain2,

Editors who focus on other editors' perceived faults and compare themselves to other editors do not get unblocked. This block is about your edits and behavior. Think about why you were blocked and how to avoid those mistakes in the future and you might have a chance to be unblocked. Complaining about other editors will likely result in you losing your talk page access. You really need to move on from your focus on Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity and issues of "propaganda". We are here to write an encyclopedia not "right great wrongs" and if that is your intent, your time is better spent getting yourself a blog where you can write whatever you want. But at Wikipedia, we have policies, guidelines and norms that must be followed, by everyone. Consider whether or not this place is a good fit for what you want to do with your writing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you for taking the time to review this User:Liz, I apologize in advance for repeating myself:

Of course, thank you User:331dot. I apologize if I caused any problems. The other subjects I have an interest in are, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, science, & psychology is something that I am very interested in, particularly the new book, The Singularity Is Nearer. Cloning, Nature versus nurture, Twin Studies, Hindsight bias, religion, for example, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, and current science around this. Space travel, and television series such as the series For All Mankind. Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction, both in books and in movies, such as The Road. I would be happy to provide more fields of interest. Thank you for your hard work and reviewing my case, User:331dot.

Have a great day. :) Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 22:22, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Ironcurtain2, I'm afraid this will be another one of my infamously long comments. However, it will be my final comment on this matter - the ball is in your court from here.

I agree with you 80-90% and disagree 10-20%. I think you have made some excellent points, and you've touched on some issues that are very important. However, for multiple reasons, some of which I understand and some of which I do not yet understand, these issues stir up some incredibly strong emotions in the Wikipedia editor community.

In addition, the way you've gone about bringing these issues up is unlikely to lead to any changes, and has led to you being banned from participation on Wikipedia. Predictably, I'm afraid. You've inadvertently dug your own grave by engaging in some less-than-ideal behavior, and there is almost no chance of digging yourself out of it. You have violated some basic rules of conduct, so your ban is not really for ideological reasons, but for procedural reasons. So, although I think the following paragraphs will resonate with you, they are not relevant to your ban. The only paragraph that is directly relevant to you is the final one.

The issues you are concerned about, broadly construed, are almost impossible to discuss them without other editors sneering at you, committing astonishing WP:CIVIL violations with impunity, and seeking to ban you. I've been through it before, as have many editors who bring up your concerns - I have an email inbox stuffed with testimonies from other concerned editors to prove it, including prominent editors that everyone reading this knows, respects, and has interacted with. Including administrators. Those editors do not speak up about their heartfelt, good-faith concerns, because they are afraid of retribution. Their concerns are very similar to yours, @ Ironcurtain2.

When I speak, I am speaking not only for myself, but for many other editors who express emphatic agreement with me privately, but are too afraid to speak up and risk being bullied, harassed, baselessly accused of wrongdoing or of holding "bad" beliefs, or doxxed - all of which have happened to me.

Wikipedia's culture, in the area of politics, has become disturbingly similar to accounts of the Soviet Union under Stalin - even though a lot of people think things have gotten weird in recent years, everyone publicly pretends to be on the same page, because they are legitimately worried, for good reason, about what will happen if they bluntly express their heretical concerns about the direction things are going. I feel extremely honored that so many editors have confided in me and shared their deep concerns, and just so everyone knows, I will never under any circumstances "out" someone who does so.

It's sad. And, given Wikipedia's staggering reach, titanic influence over public discourse, and extensive use in AI training, it's more than sad - it's a long-term threat to the West's status as a free and open society. Unfortunately, since any discussion on Wikipedia is stuffed with acronyms and buzzwords, it's very difficult for the media to make sense of this and report on it - but they should. The recent wave of reporting about ADL's reliability downgrade gives me some hope that the media will start paying greater attention to the inner workings of Wikipedia, because they are extremely consequential.

Once again, I encourage you to please send me an email. I understand your hesitation, but your anonymity and personal security will not be compromised by setting up email on Wikipedia, and if you want, you can immediately disconnect your email address once you have sent me a message. You can do so by clicking on the envelope icon in the top right corner of my talk page. There are some things that I think you must know, that I'd prefer not to discuss on Wikipedia, because it involves divulging a bit of sensitive personal information about myself. There are ways to pursue your concerns, but what you are doing right now is not the optimal strategy. I implore you - stop trying to talk your way out of your block, and send me an email as soon as possible. If you choose not to email me, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do to address your concerns. Take care. Philomathes2357 ( talk) 00:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Sir, I will do anything that User:Philomathes2357 and User:Bobfrombrockley ask. The idea behind Wikipedia is brilliant, ever since I started editing, I now see why so many people love this website and spend so many hours here.

I apologize if I have caused any problems, and I am thankful that their are so many committed volunteer editors reviewing this case.

Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 03:31, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I agree, @ Ironcurtain2, the idea of Wikipedia is a wonderful idea. One of the best ideas in modern history. Mr. Wales and Mr. Sanger are two of the great visionaries of the internet age. I hope Wikipedia will eventually be restored to what it was originally intended to be. I understand why you are hesitant to attach an email account to Wikipedia, so I will provide you with a burner email address that you can use. Please email me at philomathes2357@protonmail.com. I look forward to hearing from you. Philomathes2357 ( talk) 05:15, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you for your visionary approach to editing User:Philomathes2357 @ philomathes2357@protonmail.com I respect people who respect others with reason and compassion. I see so much collaboration and hard work on this website and it gives my hope for a brighter future. I assume you are referring to ADL = Anti-Defamation League? the Human rights organization. I have heard of Wales, but who is Mr. Sanger? Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 09:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Ironcurtain2, Larry Sanger is a philosopher (notably, an epistemologist) and the co-founder of Wikipedia.

He wrote the original NPOV policy (which is nothing like the current policy - the word "neutrality" has been carefully redefined on Wikipedia to mean something that has almost nothing to do with the English language as spoken by normal people)

Larry is now a critic of Wikipedia, see here and here for a sample of the sort of critiques he makes. It's become trendy to mock Sanger on Wikipedia in recent years, and his role as co-founder is usually de-emphasized. He does have some odd political beliefs that I do not share, but he is smarter than all of his on-Wiki detractors combined, and if his critiques were taken seriously, Wikipedia would be a much better place. Philomathes2357 ( talk) 22:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Per: User:331dot. [11]

The Singularity Is Nearer Publication date, June 25, 2024:

Kurzweil explains that energy, manufacturing and medicine will be revolutionized. ^[3]

In the 2030s, humans will connect their brains to computers. But the author also raises doubts about the feasibility of this process, and that their are challenges of replicating human cognition. ^[4]

The author explains what he calls "longevity escape velocity", in which human beings can live virtually forever and will not increase their chances of dying when they get older. ^{[5] [6] [7]}

The author states that the Turing test will be passed before 2029. ^[8]

By 2034, all of humanity's energy needs will be met by 2034. ^[9]

Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 03:41, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

As Brightly As We Can is a song by Tommy Ljungberg, which is a great song, but will never be on Wikipedia because it is not "notable" enough. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (shrug emoji). Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 23:53, 22 June 2024 (UTC) reply

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. CoffeeCrumbs ( talk) 21:32, 20 June 2024 (UTC) reply

For the record....

Contrary to talk page rules, a large section of content was deleted after it had been replied to. Therefore it was restored, but has been deleted again.

It contains bogus implications of wrongdoing where nothing wrong was done. It should not be deleted. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 05:41, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but WP:BLANKING allows users to remove anything on their user talk pages other than declined block notices, MFD tags, speedy deletion tags, and IP templates. --jpgordon ^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 14:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Jpgordon: yes, you're missing something. Editors are indeed allowed (although it's not always wise) to delete many things from their talk pages, but normally we don't allow them to remove content that has been replied to. The selective removal creates a false/deceptive picture of what was happening. In a dispute, where false allegations have been made and replied to, removal of only the allegations is problematic. Other editors should be able to see, without resorting to the history, the content and check to see that the interactions between myself and @ ScottishFinnishRadish: were perfectly normal and proper. The allegations are bogus. This may be a borderline case where striking, accompanied by an apology, would suffice. There is still a need to remove IronCurtain's access here and end this debacle. The enabling should also stop. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 14:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

RE: " This may be a borderline case where striking, accompanied by an apology, would suffice." I apologize, Valjean. Welcome to my little box, User:Jpgordon have you seen the movie, The Singularity Is Near? not as good as the book. June 25, 2024, the 2nd book comes out. I am excited to read 25 pages then give up, like I did with the first book. Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 21:18, 21 June 2024 (UTC) reply

User:Jpgordon long time listener, first time caller, what can be removed from the talk page? the Administrator notice is gone now? Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 16:31, 25 June 2024 (UTC) reply

WP:REMOVED addresses this. --jpgordon ^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 16:52, 25 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Yes, I read that sir/ma'am interesting rules, volunteers created all these rules, or admins? or someone else. They are very complex. Happy June 25, 2024. Have you ever heard of The Singularity is Near? Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 16:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC) reply

There's nobody here but us volunteers. Admins are volunteers too. Nothing complex about the talk page rules, though. You can remove anything you want from this talk page other than the declined unblock request. --jpgordon ^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 19:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Per: User:331dot. [12]

As of 2024, he has published 11 books. ^[1]

When he was 17 years old, Kurzweil appeared on the television show on the television game show, I've Got a Secret. ^[2]

No links... Ironcurtain2 ( talk) 18:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Your ability to edit this talk page has been revoked as an administrator has identified your talk page edits as inappropriate and/or disruptive.

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