Hi This is my updated talk page, to post a new question kindly Do it here, After i think the query is resolved, i usually clear it off to clean up the space for new queries, kindly check the history to retrieve any old queries.
Hello Hums4r, just wanted to share my thoughts with you. Despite my "keep" vote on the AfD, I share MrsSnoozyTurtle's discomfort about these articles being used as a form of advertising, both for Zeyan Shafiq and for Stalwart eSports. This was the main reason I didn't approve the article from AfC myself. The Stalwart eSports Facebook page in a January 31 post described themselves as being "featured" on Wikipedia alongside their founder and CEO, and they say that this is a mark of legitimacy and authenticity. Wikipedia articles are supposed to reflect notability, not generate it. I worry that they are correct, and that we have overestimated (or incorrectly reflected) the notability value of the profiles in Indian publications, which in any event are not famed for the quality of their journalism.
I am beginning to think that the articles should focus on the events, the founding of Kashbook and Stalwart, rather than the person, Zeyan Shafiq or the company. I say this in part because despite the attention that KashBook and Stalwart have received, neither one is particularly special. KashBook is, in objective terms, a poor copy of Facebook. On Stalwart's part, there's no indication that it is a particularly high-achieving team; their earnings are tiny by esports standards. Both their claims to fame come from the circumstances in which they were created. KashBook, because it was during an internet ban in J&K, and Stalwart because India-Pakistan relations are famously frosty and their partnership with Freestyle eSports is a rare instance of cross-border people-to-people cooperation. Focusing on the founder and company erases this important feature, and may indeed give them some unwarranted advertising quotient at the expense of the reader's understanding.
I've had these concerns from the beginning, but I was intending to just let it be. It's now generated such a storm in a teacup, and evoked such ire in other Kashmiri editors that I think it deserves to be addressed. It'd be nice to know what you think, but you don't have to respond - just wanted to let you know where my head is at.
(tagging Fences and windows because I know you've dedicated a lot of effort to these articles too) Kohlrabi Pickle ( talk) 08:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Kohlrabi Pickle well, i think it might not be correct because as per sources he’s notable for 2 events, Kashbook and Stalwart Esports. If you create founding of kashbook, how would you include Stalwart Esports there? Also if we go by this thing, i am afraid we may have to do a lot of work then, haha. Like rewriting many BLP articles who are based on single event or two, i think Zeyan Shafiq should have an standalone article and then Kashbook’s article can be created,(but I won’t do it, so if you’re willing I’ll shares my notes) because as said earlier he’s not notable for 1 event only, we can’t deny stalwart esports when they have significant coverage. Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 06:20, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
I was thinking the same, A controversies section should be added where his dispute with kashbook co founder has to be mentioned, there are Few articles briefly written on it, Stalwart Esports as per to my research has 60% of the articles based on their Indian performance. And 40% of articles based on their pakistani collab. We can’t completely deny their notability, but yes as you’ve mentioned in the lead there, they are known for stalwart freestyle partnership, although i will add more to it but later after i read few more articles. Unfortunately you don’t have people who are interested in indian esports. Also best of luck brother, wishing you success for exams. See you Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 07:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Would like to ask one thing more “ It should also make clear that his notability for KashBook is not continuing (no one uses it anymore)“ as far as i remember notability doesn’t look for the functionality, because if it does then there are plenty of BLP who have defunct startup’s/businesses, For eg:- Kavin Bharti Mittal is the CEO of Hike messenger, but since it’s defunct now we can’t say that he’s not notable anymore. I guess we can have a more brief discussion, but i do disagree to your POV of notability as for now. But I believe you would make me understand properly. Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 07:49, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Kohlrabi Pickle, First Question:- stalwart as an esports team has more achievements in india like :- Ending up #3 in PMCO, Ending Up #3 In FFIC, these both tourneys are the highest india level tourneys, i am not mentioning “PMPL” which is an international tourney because they played it with “Freestyle”, I’m just telling what achievements they’ve done on their own as per the sources available. But my point was that their all these achievements got 60% coverage while as their single partnership in pakistan got 40% coverage because you very well know indian media houses, haha.
To 2nd question:- you’re absolutely correct, the second line would be more precise and correct because he’s not the CEO of kashbook anymore, we can only use that he founded kashbook, but as per the stalwart website he is the CEO of stalwart esports, what do we mention in this case? Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 09:54, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
@Kohlrabi, have a look now.
I’ve added that “known for it’s collaboration with Freestyle and the reason “Due to pubg ban”. Would give the readers an idea and looks more precise, let me know what you think.
Hums4r (
Let's Talk)
10:13, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Kohlrabi Pickle Looks very perfect now, " and became known for its collaboration with Pakistani eSports organisation Freestyle eSports after PUBG Mobile was banned in India" This line looks very precise, and the Infobox corrections are okay as well, but have you read the references? Most of the references have mentioned that " It was founded by Zeyan Shafiq in January 2020 to promote india in competitive esports" The Founder/ owner part doesn't fit in the Infobox but i guess it should be present in the Lead. I'm saying this after having a look at other esport article's
Team SoloMid. Since in the maximum article's there is founder mentioned in the lead.I'll add it back and we can have a discussion on this and edit accordingly.
Hums4r (
Let's Talk)
11:17, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
.
GeneralNotability (
talk)
17:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)An editor has opened an investigation into sockpuppetry by you. Sockpuppetry is the use of more than one Wikipedia account in a manner that contravenes community policy. The investigation is being held at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Hums4r, where the editor who opened the investigation has presented their evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to investigations, and then feel free to offer your own evidence or to submit comments that you wish to be considered by the Wikipedia administrator who decides the result of the investigation. If you have been using multiple accounts (in a manner contrary to Wikipedia policy), please go to the investigation page and verify that now. Leniency is usually shown to those who promise not to do so again, or who did so unwittingly, but the abuse of multiple accounts is taken very seriously by the Wikipedia community.
Chinar( Message) 10:33, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Hums4r. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot ( talk) 12:03, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Hums4r. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot ( talk) 07:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stalwart Esports (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
Hi This is my updated talk page, to post a new question kindly Do it here, After i think the query is resolved, i usually clear it off to clean up the space for new queries, kindly check the history to retrieve any old queries.
Hello Hums4r, just wanted to share my thoughts with you. Despite my "keep" vote on the AfD, I share MrsSnoozyTurtle's discomfort about these articles being used as a form of advertising, both for Zeyan Shafiq and for Stalwart eSports. This was the main reason I didn't approve the article from AfC myself. The Stalwart eSports Facebook page in a January 31 post described themselves as being "featured" on Wikipedia alongside their founder and CEO, and they say that this is a mark of legitimacy and authenticity. Wikipedia articles are supposed to reflect notability, not generate it. I worry that they are correct, and that we have overestimated (or incorrectly reflected) the notability value of the profiles in Indian publications, which in any event are not famed for the quality of their journalism.
I am beginning to think that the articles should focus on the events, the founding of Kashbook and Stalwart, rather than the person, Zeyan Shafiq or the company. I say this in part because despite the attention that KashBook and Stalwart have received, neither one is particularly special. KashBook is, in objective terms, a poor copy of Facebook. On Stalwart's part, there's no indication that it is a particularly high-achieving team; their earnings are tiny by esports standards. Both their claims to fame come from the circumstances in which they were created. KashBook, because it was during an internet ban in J&K, and Stalwart because India-Pakistan relations are famously frosty and their partnership with Freestyle eSports is a rare instance of cross-border people-to-people cooperation. Focusing on the founder and company erases this important feature, and may indeed give them some unwarranted advertising quotient at the expense of the reader's understanding.
I've had these concerns from the beginning, but I was intending to just let it be. It's now generated such a storm in a teacup, and evoked such ire in other Kashmiri editors that I think it deserves to be addressed. It'd be nice to know what you think, but you don't have to respond - just wanted to let you know where my head is at.
(tagging Fences and windows because I know you've dedicated a lot of effort to these articles too) Kohlrabi Pickle ( talk) 08:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Kohlrabi Pickle well, i think it might not be correct because as per sources he’s notable for 2 events, Kashbook and Stalwart Esports. If you create founding of kashbook, how would you include Stalwart Esports there? Also if we go by this thing, i am afraid we may have to do a lot of work then, haha. Like rewriting many BLP articles who are based on single event or two, i think Zeyan Shafiq should have an standalone article and then Kashbook’s article can be created,(but I won’t do it, so if you’re willing I’ll shares my notes) because as said earlier he’s not notable for 1 event only, we can’t deny stalwart esports when they have significant coverage. Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 06:20, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
I was thinking the same, A controversies section should be added where his dispute with kashbook co founder has to be mentioned, there are Few articles briefly written on it, Stalwart Esports as per to my research has 60% of the articles based on their Indian performance. And 40% of articles based on their pakistani collab. We can’t completely deny their notability, but yes as you’ve mentioned in the lead there, they are known for stalwart freestyle partnership, although i will add more to it but later after i read few more articles. Unfortunately you don’t have people who are interested in indian esports. Also best of luck brother, wishing you success for exams. See you Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 07:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Would like to ask one thing more “ It should also make clear that his notability for KashBook is not continuing (no one uses it anymore)“ as far as i remember notability doesn’t look for the functionality, because if it does then there are plenty of BLP who have defunct startup’s/businesses, For eg:- Kavin Bharti Mittal is the CEO of Hike messenger, but since it’s defunct now we can’t say that he’s not notable anymore. I guess we can have a more brief discussion, but i do disagree to your POV of notability as for now. But I believe you would make me understand properly. Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 07:49, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Kohlrabi Pickle, First Question:- stalwart as an esports team has more achievements in india like :- Ending up #3 in PMCO, Ending Up #3 In FFIC, these both tourneys are the highest india level tourneys, i am not mentioning “PMPL” which is an international tourney because they played it with “Freestyle”, I’m just telling what achievements they’ve done on their own as per the sources available. But my point was that their all these achievements got 60% coverage while as their single partnership in pakistan got 40% coverage because you very well know indian media houses, haha.
To 2nd question:- you’re absolutely correct, the second line would be more precise and correct because he’s not the CEO of kashbook anymore, we can only use that he founded kashbook, but as per the stalwart website he is the CEO of stalwart esports, what do we mention in this case? Hums4r ( Let's Talk) 09:54, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
@Kohlrabi, have a look now.
I’ve added that “known for it’s collaboration with Freestyle and the reason “Due to pubg ban”. Would give the readers an idea and looks more precise, let me know what you think.
Hums4r (
Let's Talk)
10:13, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Kohlrabi Pickle Looks very perfect now, " and became known for its collaboration with Pakistani eSports organisation Freestyle eSports after PUBG Mobile was banned in India" This line looks very precise, and the Infobox corrections are okay as well, but have you read the references? Most of the references have mentioned that " It was founded by Zeyan Shafiq in January 2020 to promote india in competitive esports" The Founder/ owner part doesn't fit in the Infobox but i guess it should be present in the Lead. I'm saying this after having a look at other esport article's
Team SoloMid. Since in the maximum article's there is founder mentioned in the lead.I'll add it back and we can have a discussion on this and edit accordingly.
Hums4r (
Let's Talk)
11:17, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
.
GeneralNotability (
talk)
17:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)An editor has opened an investigation into sockpuppetry by you. Sockpuppetry is the use of more than one Wikipedia account in a manner that contravenes community policy. The investigation is being held at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Hums4r, where the editor who opened the investigation has presented their evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to investigations, and then feel free to offer your own evidence or to submit comments that you wish to be considered by the Wikipedia administrator who decides the result of the investigation. If you have been using multiple accounts (in a manner contrary to Wikipedia policy), please go to the investigation page and verify that now. Leniency is usually shown to those who promise not to do so again, or who did so unwittingly, but the abuse of multiple accounts is taken very seriously by the Wikipedia community.
Chinar( Message) 10:33, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Hums4r. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that
Draft:KashBook, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for
article space.
If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion under CSD G13. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. You may request userfication of the content if it meets requirements.
If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available here.
Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot ( talk) 12:03, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Hums4r. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that
Draft:Noble Esports, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for
article space.
If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion under CSD G13. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. You may request userfication of the content if it meets requirements.
If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available here.
Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot ( talk) 07:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stalwart Esports (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.