Hi. I just edited your user page to link to BARF Diet. I hope you don't mind. I found your comments about what you feed your dogs quite interesting, but I didn't know what BARF meant, and I thought future visitors might be in the same position. Feel quite free to WP:Revert my edit if you want. Cheers, CWC (talk) 11:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for the slow reply, I'm not very active at the moment (work commitments).
I think the link is valid - if the article is on Wikipedia then it should be linked to from any other connected pages, and the parent breed is connected. That said, I'm not convinced by the article itself. I don't see that there is any real distinction between Kelpie-Collies and any of the other thousands of cross-breeds. If the article were referenced more fully and showed that there was a specific breeding program to develop this into a breed, then that would be a different story. But at the moment it seems to be unreferenced and not giving good evidence of notability.
There are two options really, either the article is taken to AfD, or it's improved with references to show that it is a valid subject (if there are such references). But while the article exists, it's correct to link it. You could take it to AfD as well as I if that's what you think best. But I would recommend talking to the main author first and asking her to provide more references and evidence of notability. That seems the best starting point.
I hope all that helps - probably not what you wanted from me, but my best advice :) -- sannse (talk) 23:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I too have noticed the Kelpie Collie areticle, and think that because it isnt a true breed, it shouldnt be on wiki. However I have added the references tag and a cleanup tag and will wait a couple of weeks before nominating it for deletion. skorpion 03:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I hardly ever get on wikipedia any more because it's just too--too--ok, I'll admit it, addictive. So I'm also not so familiar with people who are editing and doing stuff although I am pretty familiar with all the dog articles, having been obsessed with them for over 2 years. :-) Anyway, I don't know what "the LDB page" is, sorry, maybe I'm being dense, and you didn't include a link to it, so I can't respond there. But comparing "Australian Kelpie" to "French Poodle" isn't useful--there's no breed club or kennel club anywhere that I know of that uses the official name "French Poodle." And comparing it to "Maltese (dog)" doesn't work, either, because there *is* no other designation among kennel clubs for Maltese--it's just Maltese--so there's no other name to call it by. However, since the major kennel clubs all DO call it "Australian Kelpie", it seems like a useful and reasonable way to title the article. SOOOOO then we can proceed into your argument which feeds into a much larger ongoing argument about whether the major kennel clubs are worth their weight in spit (ask me about my opinion of the AKC someday and get an earful--ok, no, you better not--) and whether it's reasonable in wikipedia to downplay the role of all other kennel clubs or similar organizations. THAT I don't have a great answer for either way. We've debated it off & on over & over. But IMHO as long as we have a widely accepted name for the breed, we might as well use it--if indeed the Plain Kelpie is considered to be a different breed by working-line clubs, then maybe there should be an additional page titled Kelpie (dog) for that breed, but then one wonders whether the info about history and appearance and temperament and all that will end up being 95% identical on both pages. So...I'd vote for leaving it as Australian Kelpie. You can copy my comments there if you want or let me know where it is and I'll do it next time I'm on, which probably won't be a while because in 10 minutes I'm leaving town again. I hope I don't sound curmudgeonly. I don't claim that resolving the dichotomies among working & show lines of ANY breed is easy. Elf | Talk 19:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I swear that I didn't see docga mentioned there when I look at the link, maybe i'm going blind now ^_^.
I really wouldn't have so much of a "problem" with that link if there weren't a wiki project alternative. As nice as that site is, it is best for wikipedia to use wikimedia sister projects instead of external projects unless the wikimedia project does not have information. That's all. - Trysha ( talk) 17:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I am the taker of that pic with the maltese. I am new to wikipedia and i am not completly informed about the copyright stuff. Is the copyright tag i chose satisfactory? I would like to recieve credit for taking the pic so i am wary about releasing it into the public domain. Please right me back and tell me what you think. Thanks. -- Tobyw87 10:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
You're welcome. Amazing which articles get targeted for vandalism. I read recently that Cheese is a big sufferer apparently. Go figure. :-) SlimVirgin (talk) 22:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok the latest streetsmart doesnt necessarily mean anything :) believe me! I will check with DLI and or Geographic Names and Mundaring shire on Monday and will revert if i get the info, otherwise its good to see someone is keeping alert on this stuff :) SatuSuro 04:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Thats alright I'd hate to have to pay a dollar for every typo i leave behind it'd cost me fortune. Gnangarra 13:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Greetings. I've been adding sources to the food article. I noticed you added the statement that nearly all forms of life have been eaten by humans. I was wondering, do you have a source for this, or is this just your supposition? Thanks, – Quadell ( talk) ( random) 17:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the note. Feel free to revert with that as your edit summary. It wasn't your revert I objected to; just the absense of an edit summary, as if the edit was vandalism. Snottygobble 13:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Methinks merging Sulimov dog into Canid hybrid would be a good idea -- the info in Sulimov is not sufficient to keep it as a separate article, but it would neatly fill out the Canid article. 14:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Gawd - check out Kalgoorlie - talk page for what might constitute a city - and you want to go on the record to call something a 'town' - you're brave! :( SatuSuro 12:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
issue in the list of largesst cities in the world (I think I got it back to front) anyways off to look at VP. cheers SatuSuro 13:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Nice map! Thanks for that. I was actually going to make something similar, but yours is really nice and neat compared to mine. :) Are they done for all the enclosed areas or do we pilfer at will? Orderinchaos78 ( t| c) 10:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the new map and the cleanup! SatuSuro 06:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey your work is so thorough and relentless - the totally out of whack SatuSuro challenging the geographically challenged award is lumbered on his talk page SatuSuro 07:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you kindly, SatuSuro. Now I have to live up to it. Sigh :) On the bright side, I think I've got all the LGA's, but must check if the "regional" articles have been got -- I know I've done some, but... (This is the downside of forking the articles and not cross-linking them.) BTW, the Mdg+ looks like a typo, so I'm tidying up the organisation. If it was deliberate, please yodel or something. Gordon | Talk, 5 November 2006 @08:09 UTC
Rather than have it spill onto every talk page for every article, I'd rather sort this issue out and move on.
The disagreement should be put to rest, as all the Australian Wikiprojects are very clear on what a suburb is - a bounded locality (LOCB or SUB on [1]). This definition seems to be unique to Australia and New Zealand in its formal sense, when I was in Vancouver a "suburb" was more like a broad term for a district - eg Maple Ridge, Richmond, Surrey, Langley - but would never be used for a "neighbourhood" as they called it (Kerrisdale, Kitsilano, etc).
The confusion between us appears to creep in especially when an LGA is named the same as a suburb. As I understand it, the suburb usually comes about first (eg Victoria Park, Stirling, Joondalup) then the LGA follows some years down the track. Unfortunately at Wikipedia, a trend previously emerged (in 2004-05) where people were using the *suburb* articles to put information about the *entire LGA*, resulting in non-inclusion of information about the locality. In very recent times it seems Australian Places has gotten on top of this and decided to use gazetted names, so the council and the suburb are clearly disambiguated and each can talk about what it does best. As a result we now have an opportunity to greatly improve the information available about the localities (suburbs). This is an ongoing process, which explains why some are done and others are not. I intend to complete all the LGA disambiguations this week but have been focussing on country areas lately.
There is indeed a lot of improvements to be made. Very few articles followed a standard until recently. The quality and quantity of many suburb and LGA articles was woeful. This isn't at all a reflection on editors - most of the articles were POV and written by IP addresses, or were just stubs. Country WA was even worse - often nothing at all of any kind whatsoever. I've had more time than usual so have devoted it to fixing up the articles and bringing WA into virtual life - like many WA people I feel that there's more emphasis put on eastern states stuff and indeed NSW is far more complete than WA is at the present time.
So what I'm saying is I'd like to work with you to resolve some of this deficit, and I'd appreciate if we could come to some resolution on this one matter so it does not become an ongoing problem every time both of us happen to work on one article where a suburb and LGA share a name. I do apologise for the length of this post on your talk page. Orderinchaos78 ( t| c) 13:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
<-
This appears to be working itself out. The only thing I would add is that suburbs and localities are in most cases legally defined (i.e. gazetted) places in Western Australia. For example, there really is a gazetted place in Western Australia with name "Stirling" and feature code "SUB" (Suburb); you can see the
Gazetteer of Australia
Online record
here. And there really is a gazetted place in Western Australia with name "City of Stirling" and feature code "DI" (county, district, local government area, etc); see its Gazetteer record
here. I think you'll find that every "suburb" you can think of will be a gazetted place.
The problem with suburbs isn't that they are not legally defined, but rather that in some cases they are legally defined entities that don't seem to have a cohesive identity; i.e. they are just a whole lot of houses cobbled together and given a name and a postcode.
Hesperian 23:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Its great to see you guys are on the case - I have nothing to add myself except to say I'm happy to go along with whatever the consensus here determines - which I presume is along the lines of Victoria Park, Western Australia and Town of Victoria Park. Cheers (we must all get together sometime!). — Moondyne 03:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Just remembered -- reminded, actually, when I saw it just now :-P -- what somebody wrote in the "Victoria Park" article a long time ago: "Victoria Park is also a locality within this municipality." I had forgotten that word. Localities don't have legal identity, 'cos they don't have governing bodies, unlike municipalities (City/Town/Shire). However, localities definitely do have legal status and definition -- how else could they be gazetted? So now we have the word I was looking for above, which is heaps more attractive than the acronym "LGA". Gordon | Talk, 12:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
OK guys - dont go down to Albany if you're not clear about all this - I think until recently there were two LGA's with Albany in the name - one was the town and the other surrounding area... SatuSuro 13:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Gordon what do you think of the Bull Terrier article? I'd be interested. Oh, and yes Albany was a doughnut - I just dont have the correct date for the amalgamation. SatuSuro 15:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for asking for my thoughts on this article.
I've copy edited somewhat and reformated the layout and here are some more thoughts. I'm sorry for being so critical as its an interesting article and may even be worth making it a dab type page with links to both breed standards as seperate article given the diversity that appears to exist. Overall references need to be increased there are still a number of POV type statements and commentary, I removed some but didnt want to take what could be useful information away. Here are the running notes I took while reading, history section is noted finish to start as read first then worked back up the page. Gnangarra 12:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
There is no Red Cloud Kelpie, beloved of Western Australians There was a dog called Red cloud, well documented as having riden mining company vehicles, even rated a 30minute spot on 6PR in the "way we were" on a sunday night which covers history with a focus on WA. the cite used is extremely poor "personal communication" doesnt have any authorative weight and would cause problems at FA.
Dingo Blood lines, needs cites who are the Some people and what opinion holds, who regarded dingos as sheep killers . it is not surprising that few—if any—would admit to the practice. needs to go its commentary.
(including the odd Dingo) occassional dingo maybe, but traites makes the Dingo odd, would a normal Dingo be ok.
I changed that title to Description some copyediting created sub sections for working and show dog , added temperment and health as sub sections.
Suggest that a look at bread standards and consider whether it should merge into descriptions.
Think this needs to be more generalised mention two groups but keep to general info, summarise the article.
Thanks again Gnangarra, your help is deeply appreciated. I have delisted the article as you suggested. There is indeed a problem with the "pers. comm." cite -- I am surprised that Wikipedia appears to not recognise it, as it is widely used in authoritative journals, in a reportage situation. The problem we have is that the information has not been published, but comes from a reputable source -- the same situation many other researchers face. In these cases, it is usual to keep the relevant communication in a safe place, but not publish it. However, I will ask if in this case I can publish it. The dog you mentioned was "Red Dog", but yes, it was a red kelpie -- Louis de Bernières wrote the definitive story, but a Karratha woman whose name I can't recall also wrote one which was published here in Perth. I'll keep working on the article along the lines you mentioned. Gordon | Talk, 14:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Entirely about sort order eg in Category:Local Government Areas of Perth for instance. One of those areas where Wikipedia is a bit messy I think... Orderinchaos78 ( t| c) 08:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you remember the reference for this one. Gnangarra 12:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey,
Your comment about TheJoshBot is a bit inaccurate, let enlighten you. TheJoshBot is an automated process that converts the 14 or so different aussie locaiton templates to
Template:Infobox Australian Place. IAP is the new template to replace all of these templates (see the talk page for a complete list) and the bot only exists because there was about 1500 pages using templates that had to be converted. There is now only 500 left because of the collaborative upgrading of users. Also, there is a width set on the image (250px). The images are showing up fine, although the logos are not always, try setting logosize to override the default of 200px. Use only a plain number or you will confuse the system. (ex logosize=200
) if you are having issues with small images, imgsize exists as well but it is preffered that you do not set this parameter.
-- TheJosh 22:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah - try in the main text - orderinchaos78 is usually better travelled in thisa than I am - I'd put them in the main text - its up to the box wizzes if they want to put them in there.... SatuSuro 11:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Kintail Rd could be added to the arterial roads templates, if you were to create the article. Of course, there are many arterial roads in Perth, but few have been created by editors. If you create the Kintail Road article, feel free to add it to the template.-- M W Johnson 06:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Hence why I tagged the article as needing expert attention. I'm no expert in the subject, the research I have done online is as best I'm able. I may do more. There should be a section of that type, covering that material. But I'm not an expert in it.
Then again I'm not an expert in veterinary and other biological-clinical subjects such as Pyometra, Hip dysplasia, Bloat, Phenoptosis, or Diabetes management (see: Article contributions), and those were also articles I substansively wrote too; writing wiki-articles is a pretty good education.
My basic stance is, I don't mind if the information I wrote is incorrect, and being replaced, but please ensure that it is replaced by factually valuable information. If specific aspects are unnecessarily detailed can you note the ones removed on the talk page as a courtesy so I can take a look? But the actual section should stand, and be correctly cited if needed, not just removed. In some articles every grammatical phrase virtually, in some sections is individually cited; that's quite common.
I think this must be a case of over-prurience. It's an article on animal sexuality, and readers will therefore expect and be prepared to find information of that nature. As long as it is reliable, notable in the article's subject, and policy compliant with regards to presentation, I'm not sure that skipping from the reproductive cycle to gestation with zero mention of the copulatory act itself is good treatment.
As for turning around, I base this upon my own experience of canine copulation, as I have friends who are breeders. I've seen it at least three times, two of which were photographed (one by myself, one by the breeder) as backup photos for other projects, so I don't think you can be correct about this, if you genuinely mean that turning during copulation is a mis-statement. Can you clarify this aspect of your comments a bit?
Many thanks, and happy new year. FT2 ( Talk | email) 12:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Can you take a look at Talk:Canine reproduction, thanks! FT2 ( Talk | email) 14:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
1. Edit summaries such as these [2] [3] may appear uncivil to other users. Please try to avoid inflammatory edit summaries or summaries with "loaded words" such as "rubbish" and "garbage".
2. Edits such as this [4] appear to be disruptive to Wikipedia to make a point. Please find a less disruptive way to express your point about citations.
-- Ginkgo 100 talk 01:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
G'day again Gingko. I was wrong in asking you to look after the section.
However, it appears you did not consider the majority of my response. I came to Wiki as a pleasant break from 12-14 hour work days as a traffic controller, which is exacting, arduous and dangerous. I chose Wiki simply because it seemed to be family-oriented with an expectation of accuracy and precision. Now I have seen that Wikipedians are happy to put up with all sorts of smut without enforcing Wiki's own rules. In short, Wiki wants the right of Free Speech without the burden of the accompanying responsibilities of Necessity and Proof.
I don't need to be bullied by trolls, of which User:FT2 is only one. I have chosen to leave, permanently.
BTW, as it happens, the copulation section is in your care: you are an administrator and as such you are expected to uphold whatever minimal standards are permitted. If you have early-teen children or nieces and nephews, show them the article. Then explain how come it's allowed to be that way. Gordon | Talk, 11:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
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Arbitration Committee election. The
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13:54, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi. I just edited your user page to link to BARF Diet. I hope you don't mind. I found your comments about what you feed your dogs quite interesting, but I didn't know what BARF meant, and I thought future visitors might be in the same position. Feel quite free to WP:Revert my edit if you want. Cheers, CWC (talk) 11:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for the slow reply, I'm not very active at the moment (work commitments).
I think the link is valid - if the article is on Wikipedia then it should be linked to from any other connected pages, and the parent breed is connected. That said, I'm not convinced by the article itself. I don't see that there is any real distinction between Kelpie-Collies and any of the other thousands of cross-breeds. If the article were referenced more fully and showed that there was a specific breeding program to develop this into a breed, then that would be a different story. But at the moment it seems to be unreferenced and not giving good evidence of notability.
There are two options really, either the article is taken to AfD, or it's improved with references to show that it is a valid subject (if there are such references). But while the article exists, it's correct to link it. You could take it to AfD as well as I if that's what you think best. But I would recommend talking to the main author first and asking her to provide more references and evidence of notability. That seems the best starting point.
I hope all that helps - probably not what you wanted from me, but my best advice :) -- sannse (talk) 23:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I too have noticed the Kelpie Collie areticle, and think that because it isnt a true breed, it shouldnt be on wiki. However I have added the references tag and a cleanup tag and will wait a couple of weeks before nominating it for deletion. skorpion 03:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I hardly ever get on wikipedia any more because it's just too--too--ok, I'll admit it, addictive. So I'm also not so familiar with people who are editing and doing stuff although I am pretty familiar with all the dog articles, having been obsessed with them for over 2 years. :-) Anyway, I don't know what "the LDB page" is, sorry, maybe I'm being dense, and you didn't include a link to it, so I can't respond there. But comparing "Australian Kelpie" to "French Poodle" isn't useful--there's no breed club or kennel club anywhere that I know of that uses the official name "French Poodle." And comparing it to "Maltese (dog)" doesn't work, either, because there *is* no other designation among kennel clubs for Maltese--it's just Maltese--so there's no other name to call it by. However, since the major kennel clubs all DO call it "Australian Kelpie", it seems like a useful and reasonable way to title the article. SOOOOO then we can proceed into your argument which feeds into a much larger ongoing argument about whether the major kennel clubs are worth their weight in spit (ask me about my opinion of the AKC someday and get an earful--ok, no, you better not--) and whether it's reasonable in wikipedia to downplay the role of all other kennel clubs or similar organizations. THAT I don't have a great answer for either way. We've debated it off & on over & over. But IMHO as long as we have a widely accepted name for the breed, we might as well use it--if indeed the Plain Kelpie is considered to be a different breed by working-line clubs, then maybe there should be an additional page titled Kelpie (dog) for that breed, but then one wonders whether the info about history and appearance and temperament and all that will end up being 95% identical on both pages. So...I'd vote for leaving it as Australian Kelpie. You can copy my comments there if you want or let me know where it is and I'll do it next time I'm on, which probably won't be a while because in 10 minutes I'm leaving town again. I hope I don't sound curmudgeonly. I don't claim that resolving the dichotomies among working & show lines of ANY breed is easy. Elf | Talk 19:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I swear that I didn't see docga mentioned there when I look at the link, maybe i'm going blind now ^_^.
I really wouldn't have so much of a "problem" with that link if there weren't a wiki project alternative. As nice as that site is, it is best for wikipedia to use wikimedia sister projects instead of external projects unless the wikimedia project does not have information. That's all. - Trysha ( talk) 17:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I am the taker of that pic with the maltese. I am new to wikipedia and i am not completly informed about the copyright stuff. Is the copyright tag i chose satisfactory? I would like to recieve credit for taking the pic so i am wary about releasing it into the public domain. Please right me back and tell me what you think. Thanks. -- Tobyw87 10:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
You're welcome. Amazing which articles get targeted for vandalism. I read recently that Cheese is a big sufferer apparently. Go figure. :-) SlimVirgin (talk) 22:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok the latest streetsmart doesnt necessarily mean anything :) believe me! I will check with DLI and or Geographic Names and Mundaring shire on Monday and will revert if i get the info, otherwise its good to see someone is keeping alert on this stuff :) SatuSuro 04:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Thats alright I'd hate to have to pay a dollar for every typo i leave behind it'd cost me fortune. Gnangarra 13:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Greetings. I've been adding sources to the food article. I noticed you added the statement that nearly all forms of life have been eaten by humans. I was wondering, do you have a source for this, or is this just your supposition? Thanks, – Quadell ( talk) ( random) 17:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the note. Feel free to revert with that as your edit summary. It wasn't your revert I objected to; just the absense of an edit summary, as if the edit was vandalism. Snottygobble 13:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Methinks merging Sulimov dog into Canid hybrid would be a good idea -- the info in Sulimov is not sufficient to keep it as a separate article, but it would neatly fill out the Canid article. 14:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Gawd - check out Kalgoorlie - talk page for what might constitute a city - and you want to go on the record to call something a 'town' - you're brave! :( SatuSuro 12:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
issue in the list of largesst cities in the world (I think I got it back to front) anyways off to look at VP. cheers SatuSuro 13:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Nice map! Thanks for that. I was actually going to make something similar, but yours is really nice and neat compared to mine. :) Are they done for all the enclosed areas or do we pilfer at will? Orderinchaos78 ( t| c) 10:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the new map and the cleanup! SatuSuro 06:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey your work is so thorough and relentless - the totally out of whack SatuSuro challenging the geographically challenged award is lumbered on his talk page SatuSuro 07:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you kindly, SatuSuro. Now I have to live up to it. Sigh :) On the bright side, I think I've got all the LGA's, but must check if the "regional" articles have been got -- I know I've done some, but... (This is the downside of forking the articles and not cross-linking them.) BTW, the Mdg+ looks like a typo, so I'm tidying up the organisation. If it was deliberate, please yodel or something. Gordon | Talk, 5 November 2006 @08:09 UTC
Rather than have it spill onto every talk page for every article, I'd rather sort this issue out and move on.
The disagreement should be put to rest, as all the Australian Wikiprojects are very clear on what a suburb is - a bounded locality (LOCB or SUB on [1]). This definition seems to be unique to Australia and New Zealand in its formal sense, when I was in Vancouver a "suburb" was more like a broad term for a district - eg Maple Ridge, Richmond, Surrey, Langley - but would never be used for a "neighbourhood" as they called it (Kerrisdale, Kitsilano, etc).
The confusion between us appears to creep in especially when an LGA is named the same as a suburb. As I understand it, the suburb usually comes about first (eg Victoria Park, Stirling, Joondalup) then the LGA follows some years down the track. Unfortunately at Wikipedia, a trend previously emerged (in 2004-05) where people were using the *suburb* articles to put information about the *entire LGA*, resulting in non-inclusion of information about the locality. In very recent times it seems Australian Places has gotten on top of this and decided to use gazetted names, so the council and the suburb are clearly disambiguated and each can talk about what it does best. As a result we now have an opportunity to greatly improve the information available about the localities (suburbs). This is an ongoing process, which explains why some are done and others are not. I intend to complete all the LGA disambiguations this week but have been focussing on country areas lately.
There is indeed a lot of improvements to be made. Very few articles followed a standard until recently. The quality and quantity of many suburb and LGA articles was woeful. This isn't at all a reflection on editors - most of the articles were POV and written by IP addresses, or were just stubs. Country WA was even worse - often nothing at all of any kind whatsoever. I've had more time than usual so have devoted it to fixing up the articles and bringing WA into virtual life - like many WA people I feel that there's more emphasis put on eastern states stuff and indeed NSW is far more complete than WA is at the present time.
So what I'm saying is I'd like to work with you to resolve some of this deficit, and I'd appreciate if we could come to some resolution on this one matter so it does not become an ongoing problem every time both of us happen to work on one article where a suburb and LGA share a name. I do apologise for the length of this post on your talk page. Orderinchaos78 ( t| c) 13:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
<-
This appears to be working itself out. The only thing I would add is that suburbs and localities are in most cases legally defined (i.e. gazetted) places in Western Australia. For example, there really is a gazetted place in Western Australia with name "Stirling" and feature code "SUB" (Suburb); you can see the
Gazetteer of Australia
Online record
here. And there really is a gazetted place in Western Australia with name "City of Stirling" and feature code "DI" (county, district, local government area, etc); see its Gazetteer record
here. I think you'll find that every "suburb" you can think of will be a gazetted place.
The problem with suburbs isn't that they are not legally defined, but rather that in some cases they are legally defined entities that don't seem to have a cohesive identity; i.e. they are just a whole lot of houses cobbled together and given a name and a postcode.
Hesperian 23:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Its great to see you guys are on the case - I have nothing to add myself except to say I'm happy to go along with whatever the consensus here determines - which I presume is along the lines of Victoria Park, Western Australia and Town of Victoria Park. Cheers (we must all get together sometime!). — Moondyne 03:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Just remembered -- reminded, actually, when I saw it just now :-P -- what somebody wrote in the "Victoria Park" article a long time ago: "Victoria Park is also a locality within this municipality." I had forgotten that word. Localities don't have legal identity, 'cos they don't have governing bodies, unlike municipalities (City/Town/Shire). However, localities definitely do have legal status and definition -- how else could they be gazetted? So now we have the word I was looking for above, which is heaps more attractive than the acronym "LGA". Gordon | Talk, 12:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
OK guys - dont go down to Albany if you're not clear about all this - I think until recently there were two LGA's with Albany in the name - one was the town and the other surrounding area... SatuSuro 13:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Gordon what do you think of the Bull Terrier article? I'd be interested. Oh, and yes Albany was a doughnut - I just dont have the correct date for the amalgamation. SatuSuro 15:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for asking for my thoughts on this article.
I've copy edited somewhat and reformated the layout and here are some more thoughts. I'm sorry for being so critical as its an interesting article and may even be worth making it a dab type page with links to both breed standards as seperate article given the diversity that appears to exist. Overall references need to be increased there are still a number of POV type statements and commentary, I removed some but didnt want to take what could be useful information away. Here are the running notes I took while reading, history section is noted finish to start as read first then worked back up the page. Gnangarra 12:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
There is no Red Cloud Kelpie, beloved of Western Australians There was a dog called Red cloud, well documented as having riden mining company vehicles, even rated a 30minute spot on 6PR in the "way we were" on a sunday night which covers history with a focus on WA. the cite used is extremely poor "personal communication" doesnt have any authorative weight and would cause problems at FA.
Dingo Blood lines, needs cites who are the Some people and what opinion holds, who regarded dingos as sheep killers . it is not surprising that few—if any—would admit to the practice. needs to go its commentary.
(including the odd Dingo) occassional dingo maybe, but traites makes the Dingo odd, would a normal Dingo be ok.
I changed that title to Description some copyediting created sub sections for working and show dog , added temperment and health as sub sections.
Suggest that a look at bread standards and consider whether it should merge into descriptions.
Think this needs to be more generalised mention two groups but keep to general info, summarise the article.
Thanks again Gnangarra, your help is deeply appreciated. I have delisted the article as you suggested. There is indeed a problem with the "pers. comm." cite -- I am surprised that Wikipedia appears to not recognise it, as it is widely used in authoritative journals, in a reportage situation. The problem we have is that the information has not been published, but comes from a reputable source -- the same situation many other researchers face. In these cases, it is usual to keep the relevant communication in a safe place, but not publish it. However, I will ask if in this case I can publish it. The dog you mentioned was "Red Dog", but yes, it was a red kelpie -- Louis de Bernières wrote the definitive story, but a Karratha woman whose name I can't recall also wrote one which was published here in Perth. I'll keep working on the article along the lines you mentioned. Gordon | Talk, 14:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Entirely about sort order eg in Category:Local Government Areas of Perth for instance. One of those areas where Wikipedia is a bit messy I think... Orderinchaos78 ( t| c) 08:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you remember the reference for this one. Gnangarra 12:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey,
Your comment about TheJoshBot is a bit inaccurate, let enlighten you. TheJoshBot is an automated process that converts the 14 or so different aussie locaiton templates to
Template:Infobox Australian Place. IAP is the new template to replace all of these templates (see the talk page for a complete list) and the bot only exists because there was about 1500 pages using templates that had to be converted. There is now only 500 left because of the collaborative upgrading of users. Also, there is a width set on the image (250px). The images are showing up fine, although the logos are not always, try setting logosize to override the default of 200px. Use only a plain number or you will confuse the system. (ex logosize=200
) if you are having issues with small images, imgsize exists as well but it is preffered that you do not set this parameter.
-- TheJosh 22:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah - try in the main text - orderinchaos78 is usually better travelled in thisa than I am - I'd put them in the main text - its up to the box wizzes if they want to put them in there.... SatuSuro 11:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Kintail Rd could be added to the arterial roads templates, if you were to create the article. Of course, there are many arterial roads in Perth, but few have been created by editors. If you create the Kintail Road article, feel free to add it to the template.-- M W Johnson 06:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Hence why I tagged the article as needing expert attention. I'm no expert in the subject, the research I have done online is as best I'm able. I may do more. There should be a section of that type, covering that material. But I'm not an expert in it.
Then again I'm not an expert in veterinary and other biological-clinical subjects such as Pyometra, Hip dysplasia, Bloat, Phenoptosis, or Diabetes management (see: Article contributions), and those were also articles I substansively wrote too; writing wiki-articles is a pretty good education.
My basic stance is, I don't mind if the information I wrote is incorrect, and being replaced, but please ensure that it is replaced by factually valuable information. If specific aspects are unnecessarily detailed can you note the ones removed on the talk page as a courtesy so I can take a look? But the actual section should stand, and be correctly cited if needed, not just removed. In some articles every grammatical phrase virtually, in some sections is individually cited; that's quite common.
I think this must be a case of over-prurience. It's an article on animal sexuality, and readers will therefore expect and be prepared to find information of that nature. As long as it is reliable, notable in the article's subject, and policy compliant with regards to presentation, I'm not sure that skipping from the reproductive cycle to gestation with zero mention of the copulatory act itself is good treatment.
As for turning around, I base this upon my own experience of canine copulation, as I have friends who are breeders. I've seen it at least three times, two of which were photographed (one by myself, one by the breeder) as backup photos for other projects, so I don't think you can be correct about this, if you genuinely mean that turning during copulation is a mis-statement. Can you clarify this aspect of your comments a bit?
Many thanks, and happy new year. FT2 ( Talk | email) 12:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Can you take a look at Talk:Canine reproduction, thanks! FT2 ( Talk | email) 14:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
1. Edit summaries such as these [2] [3] may appear uncivil to other users. Please try to avoid inflammatory edit summaries or summaries with "loaded words" such as "rubbish" and "garbage".
2. Edits such as this [4] appear to be disruptive to Wikipedia to make a point. Please find a less disruptive way to express your point about citations.
-- Ginkgo 100 talk 01:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
G'day again Gingko. I was wrong in asking you to look after the section.
However, it appears you did not consider the majority of my response. I came to Wiki as a pleasant break from 12-14 hour work days as a traffic controller, which is exacting, arduous and dangerous. I chose Wiki simply because it seemed to be family-oriented with an expectation of accuracy and precision. Now I have seen that Wikipedians are happy to put up with all sorts of smut without enforcing Wiki's own rules. In short, Wiki wants the right of Free Speech without the burden of the accompanying responsibilities of Necessity and Proof.
I don't need to be bullied by trolls, of which User:FT2 is only one. I have chosen to leave, permanently.
BTW, as it happens, the copulation section is in your care: you are an administrator and as such you are expected to uphold whatever minimal standards are permitted. If you have early-teen children or nieces and nephews, show them the article. Then explain how come it's allowed to be that way. Gordon | Talk, 11:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
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