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Well, it looks like they closed the FAC for Alien Nation. I'm actually surprised. I didn't hear back on your comments relating to my changes. I think I made the necessary and appropriate corrections. Did you view the page recently? I thought after my most recent changes, the article would pass on its merits. I didn't really get any oppose recommendations from any reviewers, but apparently the article was still demoted. I'm disappointed. I'm not sure what to think. Theatrickal ( talk) 13:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
That was a pretty low shot, Erik. Perhaps next time, you might consider actually reading the block log a LOT closer than you apparently have. I was blocked once for edit-warring in that article (the other two blocks were reversed immediately when it was uncovered that edit-warring wasn't occurring). It's okay, we all miss things - much like you missed that I haven't been blocked in almost two years. Pretty messed up way to try and win an argument. What the hell happened to you, man? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I added File:Ken Branagh on Thor.jpg to Thor (film) and would like additional help to make sure it use is justly reasoned. The biggest justification is that Thor is closed a set so any images depecting filming is sanctioned by the film makers and published as non-free content therefore no free alternative exists. However if this image does in fact violate wikipedia standards please let me know I will have image speedy deleted. Thank you. -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 14:36, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
[2]Surprised you are ditching that, but still watching FlashForward, V and SGU... talk about disappointing series beginnings... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 20:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
What do you think about adding something from this discussion to WP:RTMC about the subjective nature of the "Top Critics" section and the resulting score? Questions about appropriateness of RT seem to come up often enough that the essay made sense to be created when it was. Now I'm just thinking that we should keep it regularly updated when new issues arise and are resolved. For this, I was thinking something along the lines of:
Remember that the "Top Critics" section's overall score may differ depending on where in the world you're accessing Rotten Tomatoes. This is because your query may redirect you to a local site (such as uk.rottentomatoes.com in the United Kingdom and au.rottentomatoes.com in Australia) and the Rotten Tomatoes staff is given some subjective control in selecting "Top Critics", allowing for different make-up on different local sites.
It can probably be worded better but you get the idea. I'm thinking that it can be placed immediately after the sentence about sampling individual reviews from the "Top Critics" section. What do you think? Big Bird ( talk • contribs) 12:53, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I've started an account. No more am I just a number, a cog in the machine, a blip on the radar. Now I am Jack Sebastian. Still a blip on the radar, though. ;) - Jack Sebastian ( talk) 23:15, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
hi erik. i started an article that im hoping you can help me on. it is about lord of the rings being released on blu ray, and the fact that new line cinema is considering putting lord of the rings back in theatres with 3D technology. if u have the time, please help me out with improving this article. thanks -- Cman7792 ( talk) 19:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Do you intend to pursue Merging infobox templates? I hope so! Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
fyi, the RfC is now closed and there's an implementation discussion at:
Cheers, Jack Merridew 00:48, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Any time when you're available could you swing by and comment on the images at the cleanup listing? I've left comments for all of the FA images to begin with and hopefully with another comment or two we can have a better idea on what should be kept or removed. If anybody else is watching this page, I would welcome your comments there as well. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 04:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Looking over some of our B-class articles, I stumbled on Cloverfield. The article is still in pretty good shape and I was just curious why you never took it on to GA. It obviously needs to be copyedited, the plot reduced, the lead expanded, and some sources replaced/added, but with a little work, you could probably get it to GA fairly easily. There are various articles like this one in the category that are nearly GAs that just need a little bit of work. Once the cleanup listing is finished, I'll probably do a search of all of the articles in the C & B class categories and point out potential candidates for members to pursue GAs. We can look to see how some of the GAs could reach FA as well. There are many potential cinema collaboration articles out there, which could greatly expand our current spotlight articles. Again, I'm waiting until after the cleanup, but since that is going to take forever at its current pace (I don't want to relive Sweeps again), it'll probably be a while before I compile the potential articles. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 06:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I guess that was a bad idea to strive for the main page! Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean here? I'm not sure how much I can help with Cloverfield, though. One of the major blows in losing my university account is that I can't check newspaper and magazine articles on a whim. I have to choose my projects more selectively now. Erik ( talk | contribs) 11:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Inre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Final Destination 5: The Death Trip: While the article written by User:Masolipis111 is frought with problems, the topic itself is not a hoax, and so I believe the topic itself may merit a merit a redirect to Final Destination (film series), where speculation of a 5th in the series might best be covered. Not exactly RS, but Slashfilm, Screenrant, Shock Till You Drop, and others all make note of Warner Bros. head Alan Horn announcing at ShoWest that they're planning Final Destination 5. So while the current article itself is full of unsourced speculation, the chase for consumer dollars makes the project likely. If we set a redirect, Wikipedia can afford to be patient and revisit this topic when it receives more coverage and in reliable sources. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 20:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
[3] It is a verb, but the verb's noun form; therefore it's treated as such (see gerund). Imagine it with a more obvious noun in its place ("the supporters' table"). I think we've had this discussion before; I couldn't convince you then, if I recall. :-) Steve T • C 20:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I've re-opened the discussion on the grounds that the removal of the image doesn't seem to meet any criteria for removal. Woogee ( talk) 20:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. :( Silver seren C 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Erik Kraft here again. Sorry for not following the reply conventions, but I'm not a wikipedia editor and I feel this is rather urgent. Erik, can you clarify what you meant by "process of outing you." Because Don and his people seem to be taking this as evidence that I, Erik Kraft, am the person they are mad at. Don has posted my personal information, including address and phone number, on his forum on his personal site and I'm extremely disturbed. Thanks.
Just something weird I've noticed about this whole thing; the Transformer's wiki pulls absolutely no punches about detailing Don's history with wikipedia and uses the same image that used to be on his article here (I agree it was unflattering but until I realized he had issues I thought it was charmingly hammy). As near as I can tell, it's not like the editors there are fans from his website and therefore given license by him. I'm assuming he cares less because it's a lesser know website, but still... they are pretty scathing. Millahnna (mouse) talk 17:13, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
I've received two calls in the past hour from a person named Don. He is extremely upset with the wikipedia editor named Erik and has somehow googled his way to me. My name is Erik Kraft and he found my phone number and address. He won't tell me how he found my information. He refuses to believe I'm not the wikipedia editor Erik and is making weird threats. He won't even tell me what article he's so upset about; he is so convinced I'm the person he's mad at that he thinks I'm playing dumb. Can you help fill me in? Please get in touch ASAP. And anything you can do to cool off this Don guy would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Erik
Hello--this is Erik Kraft writing again. Thank you for the offer, but I'm not sure what this means--I'm not the wikipedia user Erik and I don't have a user page. This is the whole problem. I'd appreciate the wikipedia editor Erik coming forward to clarify things. I've never been so confused about something in my life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.177.43.18 ( talk • contribs)
Thanks again. I really appreciate your efforts to help, and yes, I'm talking to the Chicago police right now. This is insane. I really hope Erik will chime in and clarify things, and whatever else, Erik, please stop whatever edit war is going on with Don. It is having extremely disturbing real-life implications for me, and I hope you'll agree that it's really not worth it.
Sorry, I just got in tonight. Mr. Kraft, I am very sorry that you got involved in this. Murphy's behavior is despicable, and please feel free to take whatever action is necessary. He has a history of skirting harassment advocating by including a disclaimer. Like Silver seren said, it has nothing to do with edit warring. Murphy despises any edit to his article. He thinks I am you because we are from the same area, I think, but I have no idea how your specific name got listed. I will be contacting Jimmy Wales, who knows about Murphy's behavior and has personally called him. A second phone call is probably in order. Erik ( talk | contribs) 18:58, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
I've started a new ANI section about the situation, as it has gone far beyond just the incident with the photo. I've asked the community to see if we can do anything to help out this guy named Erik (that's what i'm going to call you). I just wanted to inform you about this, User Erik (and that's what i'm going to call you, to differentiate). Silver seren C 18:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi. About this edit you made, I have to disagree. The rule about forums not being reliable sources refers to posts in forums made by regular joes. The case in question is one of the movie writers posting in one of the movie's producers' forum. It should be noted that MANY of other bits of information in these articles are sourced by other of these posts. There's particularly a whole load of them sourced by the numerous "Hey Roberto" Q&A's conducted in these forums, to which Orci replied. Also illustrative of the point could be the also abundant affirmations sourced by Michael Bay's posts in his own forum, ShootForTheEdit. -- uKER ( talk) 20:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Your talk page's heading says people shouldn't contact you here regarding "the situation" but it doesn't say anything about what situation you're talking about. In any case, I don't have any other means of contacting you so, well... Now, what did your reply mean? Are you OK with me restoring the source in the Transformers article then? Perpahs forums not being citable sources requires a noted exception being movie insiders posting in reputable forums. -- uKER ( talk) 21:35, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
This...makes me rather sad. I wish this situation hadn't happen and I do sorta feel like you're letting him win. :( Perhaps you'll return someday? I can only hope. Silver seren C 23:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Take your time. I'm disappointed at the actions of Murphy for starting the whole fiasco, and you definitely do deserve a break. As always, if you have any pages you want me to watch for you, let me know. I look forward to your return. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 01:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
After dealing with harassment from Don Murphy and his goons for the past two days, I can appreciate why wikipedia user Erik would want nothing further to do with this mess. At the same time, I really wish he would have clarified why he talked about being "outed" both here and on the admin thread--all that did was wave a red flag in the face of Don and his goons and make them think they had found the right target in me, Erik Kraft, a third party who had nothing to do with any of this until receiving a call from Don Murphy Saturday. No one was outed except for me, and I'm the one who's had to deal with extremely scary real-life repercussions. Erik.kraft ( talk) 13:49, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry If I've raised a controversy on wikipedia but according to writer/director Paul W.S. Anderson, the film Death Race is prequel and not a remake. I am not a registered user on Wikipedia, nor do I intend to be, but saw that it said remake and I felt compelled to correct. I don't know how to cite the source but if someone would be willing to watch the film's DVD commentary, that is where it can be confirmed. For the longest time I thought someone kept changing it just to mess with me, but it was the people at Wikipedia the whole time. I would appreciate if you could verify this and insure that that the article informs readers the film is actually a prequel and not a remake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.211.200 ( talk) 02:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Am I the only one that thinks all of these images are going to end up having to go under an image for deletion discussion? Centpacrr doesn't seem to really understand the requirements of non-free images or what "critical commentary" actually means. I get the feeling that they are not going to budge on this topic and it's going to force all of the images to go under individual review - which is probably the worst thing for Centpacrr, since the non-free media deletionists are usually pretty happy to excise images and the like when they fail to acquire the appropriate criteria. BTW, welcome back. Great way to get your feet wet again. :P BIGNOLE (Contact me) 19:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
See here. Delicious carbuncle ( talk) 15:05, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I hung out around you too much. Even these days, every time I want to use a film article as an example of anything, guess which one it is. Yeah, you got it :)
It is a good article. And it's good to see you around again.
Peace! Big Bird ( talk • contribs)
Hi Erik. Again thanks for your Saw VI review. About a cast list/casting section [on Saw 3D in the third paragraph of the Casting section], what is your valued opinion on how I have added returning cast/characters and new cast/characters that don't have any additional casting tidbits to be included (at this time)? Is it necessary for prose or list? Thanks. Mike Allen 06:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
...back. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 22:06, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the warning, also welcome back! -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, those quotes were absolutely terrible. I was going to try to fix them, but it was probably best to just straight-up delete them. I'm going to work on that page a lot more, so if you're also a fan of Airborne, feel free to help out or make suggestions. BrianSfinasSSI ( talk) 16:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
inre http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=The_Avengers_film_project&action=history I was just about to do the same thing. Thanks for the assist. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 21:07, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Please see discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (films)#Proposed ammendment to WP:NFF. Thank you. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 04:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
The July 2010 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 06:03, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
I was just thinking that this article would also benefit from a similar format currently being used by the The Avengers film project as it is another future project that has yet to begin production and seems to have gone into development hell.-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 12:31, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi Erik! I am fully understanding of your concerns, but we do have a few precedents with which to work: Category:Upcoming films A while back, the extended coverage over many years of Goldie Hawn's wish/intent/plans to make and direct her own film resulted in an editor creating Ashes to Ashes (2010 film) wich was taken to an AFD similar to the one for Avengers (2012 film). And at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashes to Ashes (2010 film). It was another instance where a topic was seen to meet to GNG, and style and name and perception were the greatest concerns... just as with Avengers. My editing the article during that AFD resulted in its meeting those concerns and resulted in a keep per consensus of a "film-related" non-film. The article is at Ashes to Ashes (Goldie Hawn film project), and so... we do have a precedent for careful use of film style templates, but only if it made very clear in the lede that such articles are NOT about made films... and [[Category:Upcoming films]] was used. Wouldn't that cat be appropriate for Avengers? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 18:59, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
From Scanners. :) BTW, I am thinking that in regard to unproduced films, it may be worthwhile to have some historical articles where a failed production is especially reported in retrospect. For example, this book can do that. The challenge with having a project article is that it can float between history and reality; there are a few projects out there that people keep saying they'll make, and the tone is naturally forward-looking. Attempted film adaptations of works by Arthur C. Clarke, especially, may be worth a look. Erik ( talk | contribs) 20:10, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi Erik. Quick question: Hypothetically, a film stub is up for deletion under concerns of "notability". This film stub is completely reliably sourced, and the film is shown to pass WP:NOTFILM under multiple criteria, including being a significant film in the career of multiple "notable" personnel, and winning an award in the major film ceremony covering the genre. It's a foreign-language film, and the amount of coverage in the sourcing available online-- while reliable-- is said not to meet GNG. Is it "notable" or not? Dekkappai ( talk) 02:22, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
After 3 failed FA's, many PR's, and more than two years of work, I'm now setting my sights on FA for this article. I'm not sure if there's anything left to do. I might work on a subarticle on Interpretations, I left some references on the talk page, but the main focus now is the main article for FA. Should I get another PR first? I don't want number 4 to be another failed FA. -- The Taerkasten ( talk) 13:59, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Erik, JuneGloom07 Talk? , Courcelles ( talk) and I nominated the article List of awards and nominations received by Up in the Air for FLC. This list is a child article to Up in the Air (film). I would appreciate your considered comments regarding the nomination on Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of accolades received by Up in the Air/archive1. -- Dan Dassow ( talk) 13:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
On what grounds did u reverted the changes to that article? Was it backed by your personal knowledge of that film producing? Please tag the article for revision next time prior to reverting anyones edits. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulterior19802005 ( talk • contribs) 20:04, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Ah! Thanks Erik, I didn't catch that. This will help out a lot! Cheers. Andrzejbanas ( talk) 16:26, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi there ERIK, VASCO from Portugal,
about your question, well, maybe i won't be of much help my friend. I don't edit in movie stuff, so i'll take your "gut feeling" on that one. Regarding my experiences with Arbero fellow, all i can say is the following:
He, as ZOMBIE433, never writes summaries - well almost never - and i did message him in the past, but merely on aesthetic technicalities, he was not violating any wiki-rule. The only thing that seemed strange was that he answered, saying that he agreed with me, then went back to doing the exact opposite (another example of this behaviour could be find in User:Filipão); i also can see, from our "wiki-clock", that he has not replied to your message, and is active as of NOW in the site. I find that to be not very polite, but, to each his own...
All in all, all i can say is this: as far as his contributions to the movie articles, i have no opinion, but if you say he's done wrong stuff, i will agree with you. In soccer articles, i will never get along with him, but he his not a vandal, no sir (at least in football). Take care, wished i could be of more help - -- Vasco Amaral ( talk) 14:14, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
The source I have added Germany is from the film's Internet Movie Database. Here is the link [4]. --Arbero 31 August 2010, 18:50.
The August 2010 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 03:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
I started a discussion about this month's election that I'd like to get started in the next few days. Please comment there so the nomination period can be initiated quickly. By the way, I removed your name from the Signpost mailing list back during your retirement, if you're interested in getting that again, you'll need to readd your name. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 04:14, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Our guidelines don't offer a place for a section that gives a scene by scene breakdown of a film. For some important films that we're trying to cover completely, it seems that would be as useful as anything else we offer. I don't know of any source of scene breakdowns of important films either. I'm not sure, but I think some readers might find it valuable. Do you have a strong opinion either way? Thanks. -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 03:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm not talking about anything indiscriminate. I'm talking about completeness. I also am not talking about analysis any more than a plot summary is analysis. Neither am I talking about something that replaces watching a film. However, a list of each scene and its action answers questions about a film that a researcher might be interested in. A plot summary as we've defined it can't do the same job, because there's no confidence that the summary organizes the material according to film order. So for that reason a breakdown offers information about a film that a plot summary cannot. That means that it has value beyond what a film article currently could. -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 15:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
That's a complicated response. In comparing a plot summary and a scene breakdown, I think the reality is that the summary will be more of an interpretation. So which is truer to the objectives? 2. I don't accept the amateur / non-amateur distinction as one that creates a value difference. (or do you mean amateur in its original meaning -- a lover of...?) -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 19:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Wait, I didn't say a breakdown is interpretive. I said a summary is more interpretive. Why? Because summarizing requires selecting. A complete scene breakdown (reducing each scene to its action in about the size of a tweet) doesn't require editorial selection; all the scenes are in. The speculation about motivation that you posit would be equally unwelcome as it is in summaries. Summaries are of questionable value because they are incomplete. So, which form is more useful to the readers? Summaries, because they necessitate a level of selection on the part of the editor, are not useful for someone who simply wants a neutral recounting of the film, nor to someone who wants an analysis of the film. At least a breakdown is a reliable ordering of the scenes. (A further benefit: it would allow readers to avoid spoilers.) Clearly some would object for good reasons and bad. That they require interpretation is not one of them, any more than a citation from book is an interpretation. -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 13:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
The September 2010 project coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting five coordinators from a pool of candidates to serve for the next year; members are invited to nominate themselves if interested. Please do not vote yet, voting will begin on September 15. This message has been sent as you are registered as an active member of the project. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 03:45, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
The nominator dropped the ball on this one big time. Not only was his flawed nomination based upon totally inapplicable criteria, but if he had done even a minimal before, he would have found sources in spades... juat as I have. [5] I voted speedy close at the AFD. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 06:09, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Re: Four (Film) Many thanks for your message, EriK. Happy to hold fire until the film comes out. Then let someone else put it on. LOL! best wishes, JLang42 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlang42 ( talk • contribs) 15:18, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi Erik, sticky prods are for unsourced articles not poorly sourced ones. It takes a reliable source to remove a valid sticky prod, but it only takes a link that supports something about the subject to prevent an article being tagged in the first place. In the recent RFC I didn't quite get consensus to broaden sticky prods to articles "sourced" from Myspace, Facebook, LinkedIn and Utube - IMHO all rather more worrying than IMDB. Ϣere SpielChequers 19:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi. I'm not happy with the structure and layout of this article, as it doesn't pretend to follow or abide by MOS:FILMS. I don't want my own opinion on this matter interfering with my judgment as to whether the article should pass or fail GA, so if you get a chance, could you very briefly comment on the layout? I would like your opinion. Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 02:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree and disagree. We do need to perhaps set a clearer standard as to how persisitant ongoing coverage of a film topic might merit an article if there is too much sourced content for a decent merge. As NFF does allow consideration of rare exceptions, we can perhaps guide what qualifies as an exception so as to not open the floodgates. Like yourself, I do not wish a flood of minimal film project articles... but I do not expect a flood even after the very few examples that currently exist per consensus as exceptions to NFF. However, and in accepting that there ARE exceptions, I think it best to draw a clearer line in the sand. For instance, I do not think anyone would doubt the notability of the article The Hobbit film project, and it has not even reached the pre-production stage. It is the "topic" which has exceeded guideline requirements to be "wirthy of note". And we both recall the recent discussions about The Avengers film project. I think some preparation now will better guide the future. Shall we discuss ideas? Or (chuckle) perhaps Project Film might avoid becoming involved in articles about non-films until they actually become films... and so let them stay or go based upon their own merits and WP:NOT, WP:N and WP:GNG. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 00:22, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
You're correct... the proposed exceptions will likely be for the blockbusters because of the nature of who and what is involved. So I think we need pay close attention to span of coverage, as any topic, film or no, has to have more and enduring coverage beyond "recent" else run afoul of WP:NOTNEWS. If there is not enough contextually and reliably sourced content to support a decently encyclopedic stand-alone, a merge to somewhere suitable will still be the decent alternative. But my own first exposure to a "project article" was not a blockbuster... or something touted by a major studio... nor something that could have been folded into a series article. You may remember Ashes to Ashes (Goldie Hawn film project) from last year (not a big-budget major-studio blockbuster), which had (and still has) enduring coverage over many years as the project received coverage for Goldie's various attempts to get the project under weigh... with articles begginning in 1996 speaking of her intent, [6] [7] and some as recently as last month ago where the film was still receiving coverage with yet another article speaking toward Goldie's hopes that it might yet get done. [8] Strangely, in the 2005 book Goldie Hawn and Kate Hudson the author specifically speaks about the film in past tense, stating it was already shot... in contrast to the 2006 50+: igniting a revolution to reinvent America which speaks toward her struggling to finance the film. Did some parts get shot? Does not seem so... but as a topic it has received enough coverage to satisfy the GNG, and even if not made, meets the "production is notable" caveat of NFF. So... what I am coming around to is the nature of the coverage.
The Hobbit film project has received a tremendous amount of coverage for an even more extended period of time than even some successful biggies. The nature of the project, the individuals involved, and the allowing instruction at NOT have given us one terrific article... about a "film project"... one well worth being of note... and one that is far from ever having its first actor cast. Would you wish it tossed as a violation of guideline in contravention to the allowing policy? Better perhaps... we might consider and offer it as a gleaming example of what it takes to become an allowable exception to NFF. My understanding is that when the two are in conflict, the edge is given to policy over guideline... so in acknowledging that exceptions are going to be proposed, all we might best do is make sure that whatever exceptions are proposed, these exceptions must themselves qualify as terrific examples of what an exception should be... and this through extensive coverage that is more than recent, and in in exceeding depth, so as to be seen as well worth note. Better to plan for the storm than curse the rain. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 02:49, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Even as I was writing the above, and despite my being the defender of existance for the Ashes to Ashes article when it went through AFD last year, I have been giving consideration of myself doing a proper sourced merge to the Goldie Hawn article, and I do not think anyone will have reason to complain when I am finished. So let's take that "example" of a project article off the plate in this discussion... as in a few days or hours it will be mute.
Instead though, let's tackle the real dragon in its cave. Please go ahead and send The Hobbit film project to AFD or propose it for a several year Incubation and let's both see what happens. Either exceptions are allowed to exist per policy or guideline, or they are not. So we may as well take on the Godzilla of exceptions rather than quibble about the lessor. If a point is to be made about why NFF exists, and a consensus for future exceptions is to be established, THAT is the article that will shake things up. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 01:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Any use of the term "film project" must be accompanied by sources that show "production itself notable per existing notability guideline as set by WP:NFF... and Marvin fails miserably. Oh, bless some newb for trying... but like any article that doesn't have souracble notability, Marvin is gonna go... no matter what the article's title is. Its use of film project in its title is no more or less important than any other type of title in a "topic" totaly unable show notability. But yes... we do need to better define what creates a per policy and guideline allowable exception, so that we have fewer premature attempts.
What different type of disambiguation term than "film project" might you suggest for topics that have proven themselves notable per policy and that mother of all sub notability guidelines... what type of disambiguation for topics that are NOT films? For if the use of the phrase "film project" for something that is not yet a film is such an anathema to Project Film, we need find another way to describe articles about such topics in the making/planning/creation stages, as long as such topics meet pertinent notability guidelines... so that the topics may themselves be judged for what they are, and not what they are not. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 07:37, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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Well, it looks like they closed the FAC for Alien Nation. I'm actually surprised. I didn't hear back on your comments relating to my changes. I think I made the necessary and appropriate corrections. Did you view the page recently? I thought after my most recent changes, the article would pass on its merits. I didn't really get any oppose recommendations from any reviewers, but apparently the article was still demoted. I'm disappointed. I'm not sure what to think. Theatrickal ( talk) 13:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
That was a pretty low shot, Erik. Perhaps next time, you might consider actually reading the block log a LOT closer than you apparently have. I was blocked once for edit-warring in that article (the other two blocks were reversed immediately when it was uncovered that edit-warring wasn't occurring). It's okay, we all miss things - much like you missed that I haven't been blocked in almost two years. Pretty messed up way to try and win an argument. What the hell happened to you, man? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I added File:Ken Branagh on Thor.jpg to Thor (film) and would like additional help to make sure it use is justly reasoned. The biggest justification is that Thor is closed a set so any images depecting filming is sanctioned by the film makers and published as non-free content therefore no free alternative exists. However if this image does in fact violate wikipedia standards please let me know I will have image speedy deleted. Thank you. -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 14:36, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
[2]Surprised you are ditching that, but still watching FlashForward, V and SGU... talk about disappointing series beginnings... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 20:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
What do you think about adding something from this discussion to WP:RTMC about the subjective nature of the "Top Critics" section and the resulting score? Questions about appropriateness of RT seem to come up often enough that the essay made sense to be created when it was. Now I'm just thinking that we should keep it regularly updated when new issues arise and are resolved. For this, I was thinking something along the lines of:
Remember that the "Top Critics" section's overall score may differ depending on where in the world you're accessing Rotten Tomatoes. This is because your query may redirect you to a local site (such as uk.rottentomatoes.com in the United Kingdom and au.rottentomatoes.com in Australia) and the Rotten Tomatoes staff is given some subjective control in selecting "Top Critics", allowing for different make-up on different local sites.
It can probably be worded better but you get the idea. I'm thinking that it can be placed immediately after the sentence about sampling individual reviews from the "Top Critics" section. What do you think? Big Bird ( talk • contribs) 12:53, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I've started an account. No more am I just a number, a cog in the machine, a blip on the radar. Now I am Jack Sebastian. Still a blip on the radar, though. ;) - Jack Sebastian ( talk) 23:15, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
hi erik. i started an article that im hoping you can help me on. it is about lord of the rings being released on blu ray, and the fact that new line cinema is considering putting lord of the rings back in theatres with 3D technology. if u have the time, please help me out with improving this article. thanks -- Cman7792 ( talk) 19:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Do you intend to pursue Merging infobox templates? I hope so! Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
fyi, the RfC is now closed and there's an implementation discussion at:
Cheers, Jack Merridew 00:48, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Any time when you're available could you swing by and comment on the images at the cleanup listing? I've left comments for all of the FA images to begin with and hopefully with another comment or two we can have a better idea on what should be kept or removed. If anybody else is watching this page, I would welcome your comments there as well. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 04:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Looking over some of our B-class articles, I stumbled on Cloverfield. The article is still in pretty good shape and I was just curious why you never took it on to GA. It obviously needs to be copyedited, the plot reduced, the lead expanded, and some sources replaced/added, but with a little work, you could probably get it to GA fairly easily. There are various articles like this one in the category that are nearly GAs that just need a little bit of work. Once the cleanup listing is finished, I'll probably do a search of all of the articles in the C & B class categories and point out potential candidates for members to pursue GAs. We can look to see how some of the GAs could reach FA as well. There are many potential cinema collaboration articles out there, which could greatly expand our current spotlight articles. Again, I'm waiting until after the cleanup, but since that is going to take forever at its current pace (I don't want to relive Sweeps again), it'll probably be a while before I compile the potential articles. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 06:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I guess that was a bad idea to strive for the main page! Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean here? I'm not sure how much I can help with Cloverfield, though. One of the major blows in losing my university account is that I can't check newspaper and magazine articles on a whim. I have to choose my projects more selectively now. Erik ( talk | contribs) 11:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Inre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Final Destination 5: The Death Trip: While the article written by User:Masolipis111 is frought with problems, the topic itself is not a hoax, and so I believe the topic itself may merit a merit a redirect to Final Destination (film series), where speculation of a 5th in the series might best be covered. Not exactly RS, but Slashfilm, Screenrant, Shock Till You Drop, and others all make note of Warner Bros. head Alan Horn announcing at ShoWest that they're planning Final Destination 5. So while the current article itself is full of unsourced speculation, the chase for consumer dollars makes the project likely. If we set a redirect, Wikipedia can afford to be patient and revisit this topic when it receives more coverage and in reliable sources. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 20:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
[3] It is a verb, but the verb's noun form; therefore it's treated as such (see gerund). Imagine it with a more obvious noun in its place ("the supporters' table"). I think we've had this discussion before; I couldn't convince you then, if I recall. :-) Steve T • C 20:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I've re-opened the discussion on the grounds that the removal of the image doesn't seem to meet any criteria for removal. Woogee ( talk) 20:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. :( Silver seren C 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Erik Kraft here again. Sorry for not following the reply conventions, but I'm not a wikipedia editor and I feel this is rather urgent. Erik, can you clarify what you meant by "process of outing you." Because Don and his people seem to be taking this as evidence that I, Erik Kraft, am the person they are mad at. Don has posted my personal information, including address and phone number, on his forum on his personal site and I'm extremely disturbed. Thanks.
Just something weird I've noticed about this whole thing; the Transformer's wiki pulls absolutely no punches about detailing Don's history with wikipedia and uses the same image that used to be on his article here (I agree it was unflattering but until I realized he had issues I thought it was charmingly hammy). As near as I can tell, it's not like the editors there are fans from his website and therefore given license by him. I'm assuming he cares less because it's a lesser know website, but still... they are pretty scathing. Millahnna (mouse) talk 17:13, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
I've received two calls in the past hour from a person named Don. He is extremely upset with the wikipedia editor named Erik and has somehow googled his way to me. My name is Erik Kraft and he found my phone number and address. He won't tell me how he found my information. He refuses to believe I'm not the wikipedia editor Erik and is making weird threats. He won't even tell me what article he's so upset about; he is so convinced I'm the person he's mad at that he thinks I'm playing dumb. Can you help fill me in? Please get in touch ASAP. And anything you can do to cool off this Don guy would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Erik
Hello--this is Erik Kraft writing again. Thank you for the offer, but I'm not sure what this means--I'm not the wikipedia user Erik and I don't have a user page. This is the whole problem. I'd appreciate the wikipedia editor Erik coming forward to clarify things. I've never been so confused about something in my life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.177.43.18 ( talk • contribs)
Thanks again. I really appreciate your efforts to help, and yes, I'm talking to the Chicago police right now. This is insane. I really hope Erik will chime in and clarify things, and whatever else, Erik, please stop whatever edit war is going on with Don. It is having extremely disturbing real-life implications for me, and I hope you'll agree that it's really not worth it.
Sorry, I just got in tonight. Mr. Kraft, I am very sorry that you got involved in this. Murphy's behavior is despicable, and please feel free to take whatever action is necessary. He has a history of skirting harassment advocating by including a disclaimer. Like Silver seren said, it has nothing to do with edit warring. Murphy despises any edit to his article. He thinks I am you because we are from the same area, I think, but I have no idea how your specific name got listed. I will be contacting Jimmy Wales, who knows about Murphy's behavior and has personally called him. A second phone call is probably in order. Erik ( talk | contribs) 18:58, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
I've started a new ANI section about the situation, as it has gone far beyond just the incident with the photo. I've asked the community to see if we can do anything to help out this guy named Erik (that's what i'm going to call you). I just wanted to inform you about this, User Erik (and that's what i'm going to call you, to differentiate). Silver seren C 18:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi. About this edit you made, I have to disagree. The rule about forums not being reliable sources refers to posts in forums made by regular joes. The case in question is one of the movie writers posting in one of the movie's producers' forum. It should be noted that MANY of other bits of information in these articles are sourced by other of these posts. There's particularly a whole load of them sourced by the numerous "Hey Roberto" Q&A's conducted in these forums, to which Orci replied. Also illustrative of the point could be the also abundant affirmations sourced by Michael Bay's posts in his own forum, ShootForTheEdit. -- uKER ( talk) 20:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Your talk page's heading says people shouldn't contact you here regarding "the situation" but it doesn't say anything about what situation you're talking about. In any case, I don't have any other means of contacting you so, well... Now, what did your reply mean? Are you OK with me restoring the source in the Transformers article then? Perpahs forums not being citable sources requires a noted exception being movie insiders posting in reputable forums. -- uKER ( talk) 21:35, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
This...makes me rather sad. I wish this situation hadn't happen and I do sorta feel like you're letting him win. :( Perhaps you'll return someday? I can only hope. Silver seren C 23:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Take your time. I'm disappointed at the actions of Murphy for starting the whole fiasco, and you definitely do deserve a break. As always, if you have any pages you want me to watch for you, let me know. I look forward to your return. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 01:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
After dealing with harassment from Don Murphy and his goons for the past two days, I can appreciate why wikipedia user Erik would want nothing further to do with this mess. At the same time, I really wish he would have clarified why he talked about being "outed" both here and on the admin thread--all that did was wave a red flag in the face of Don and his goons and make them think they had found the right target in me, Erik Kraft, a third party who had nothing to do with any of this until receiving a call from Don Murphy Saturday. No one was outed except for me, and I'm the one who's had to deal with extremely scary real-life repercussions. Erik.kraft ( talk) 13:49, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry If I've raised a controversy on wikipedia but according to writer/director Paul W.S. Anderson, the film Death Race is prequel and not a remake. I am not a registered user on Wikipedia, nor do I intend to be, but saw that it said remake and I felt compelled to correct. I don't know how to cite the source but if someone would be willing to watch the film's DVD commentary, that is where it can be confirmed. For the longest time I thought someone kept changing it just to mess with me, but it was the people at Wikipedia the whole time. I would appreciate if you could verify this and insure that that the article informs readers the film is actually a prequel and not a remake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.211.200 ( talk) 02:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Am I the only one that thinks all of these images are going to end up having to go under an image for deletion discussion? Centpacrr doesn't seem to really understand the requirements of non-free images or what "critical commentary" actually means. I get the feeling that they are not going to budge on this topic and it's going to force all of the images to go under individual review - which is probably the worst thing for Centpacrr, since the non-free media deletionists are usually pretty happy to excise images and the like when they fail to acquire the appropriate criteria. BTW, welcome back. Great way to get your feet wet again. :P BIGNOLE (Contact me) 19:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
See here. Delicious carbuncle ( talk) 15:05, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I hung out around you too much. Even these days, every time I want to use a film article as an example of anything, guess which one it is. Yeah, you got it :)
It is a good article. And it's good to see you around again.
Peace! Big Bird ( talk • contribs)
Hi Erik. Again thanks for your Saw VI review. About a cast list/casting section [on Saw 3D in the third paragraph of the Casting section], what is your valued opinion on how I have added returning cast/characters and new cast/characters that don't have any additional casting tidbits to be included (at this time)? Is it necessary for prose or list? Thanks. Mike Allen 06:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
...back. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 22:06, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the warning, also welcome back! -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, those quotes were absolutely terrible. I was going to try to fix them, but it was probably best to just straight-up delete them. I'm going to work on that page a lot more, so if you're also a fan of Airborne, feel free to help out or make suggestions. BrianSfinasSSI ( talk) 16:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
inre http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=The_Avengers_film_project&action=history I was just about to do the same thing. Thanks for the assist. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 21:07, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Please see discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (films)#Proposed ammendment to WP:NFF. Thank you. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 04:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
The July 2010 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 06:03, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
I was just thinking that this article would also benefit from a similar format currently being used by the The Avengers film project as it is another future project that has yet to begin production and seems to have gone into development hell.-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 12:31, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi Erik! I am fully understanding of your concerns, but we do have a few precedents with which to work: Category:Upcoming films A while back, the extended coverage over many years of Goldie Hawn's wish/intent/plans to make and direct her own film resulted in an editor creating Ashes to Ashes (2010 film) wich was taken to an AFD similar to the one for Avengers (2012 film). And at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashes to Ashes (2010 film). It was another instance where a topic was seen to meet to GNG, and style and name and perception were the greatest concerns... just as with Avengers. My editing the article during that AFD resulted in its meeting those concerns and resulted in a keep per consensus of a "film-related" non-film. The article is at Ashes to Ashes (Goldie Hawn film project), and so... we do have a precedent for careful use of film style templates, but only if it made very clear in the lede that such articles are NOT about made films... and [[Category:Upcoming films]] was used. Wouldn't that cat be appropriate for Avengers? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 18:59, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
From Scanners. :) BTW, I am thinking that in regard to unproduced films, it may be worthwhile to have some historical articles where a failed production is especially reported in retrospect. For example, this book can do that. The challenge with having a project article is that it can float between history and reality; there are a few projects out there that people keep saying they'll make, and the tone is naturally forward-looking. Attempted film adaptations of works by Arthur C. Clarke, especially, may be worth a look. Erik ( talk | contribs) 20:10, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi Erik. Quick question: Hypothetically, a film stub is up for deletion under concerns of "notability". This film stub is completely reliably sourced, and the film is shown to pass WP:NOTFILM under multiple criteria, including being a significant film in the career of multiple "notable" personnel, and winning an award in the major film ceremony covering the genre. It's a foreign-language film, and the amount of coverage in the sourcing available online-- while reliable-- is said not to meet GNG. Is it "notable" or not? Dekkappai ( talk) 02:22, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
After 3 failed FA's, many PR's, and more than two years of work, I'm now setting my sights on FA for this article. I'm not sure if there's anything left to do. I might work on a subarticle on Interpretations, I left some references on the talk page, but the main focus now is the main article for FA. Should I get another PR first? I don't want number 4 to be another failed FA. -- The Taerkasten ( talk) 13:59, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Erik, JuneGloom07 Talk? , Courcelles ( talk) and I nominated the article List of awards and nominations received by Up in the Air for FLC. This list is a child article to Up in the Air (film). I would appreciate your considered comments regarding the nomination on Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of accolades received by Up in the Air/archive1. -- Dan Dassow ( talk) 13:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
On what grounds did u reverted the changes to that article? Was it backed by your personal knowledge of that film producing? Please tag the article for revision next time prior to reverting anyones edits. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulterior19802005 ( talk • contribs) 20:04, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Ah! Thanks Erik, I didn't catch that. This will help out a lot! Cheers. Andrzejbanas ( talk) 16:26, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi there ERIK, VASCO from Portugal,
about your question, well, maybe i won't be of much help my friend. I don't edit in movie stuff, so i'll take your "gut feeling" on that one. Regarding my experiences with Arbero fellow, all i can say is the following:
He, as ZOMBIE433, never writes summaries - well almost never - and i did message him in the past, but merely on aesthetic technicalities, he was not violating any wiki-rule. The only thing that seemed strange was that he answered, saying that he agreed with me, then went back to doing the exact opposite (another example of this behaviour could be find in User:Filipão); i also can see, from our "wiki-clock", that he has not replied to your message, and is active as of NOW in the site. I find that to be not very polite, but, to each his own...
All in all, all i can say is this: as far as his contributions to the movie articles, i have no opinion, but if you say he's done wrong stuff, i will agree with you. In soccer articles, i will never get along with him, but he his not a vandal, no sir (at least in football). Take care, wished i could be of more help - -- Vasco Amaral ( talk) 14:14, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
The source I have added Germany is from the film's Internet Movie Database. Here is the link [4]. --Arbero 31 August 2010, 18:50.
The August 2010 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 03:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
I started a discussion about this month's election that I'd like to get started in the next few days. Please comment there so the nomination period can be initiated quickly. By the way, I removed your name from the Signpost mailing list back during your retirement, if you're interested in getting that again, you'll need to readd your name. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 04:14, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Our guidelines don't offer a place for a section that gives a scene by scene breakdown of a film. For some important films that we're trying to cover completely, it seems that would be as useful as anything else we offer. I don't know of any source of scene breakdowns of important films either. I'm not sure, but I think some readers might find it valuable. Do you have a strong opinion either way? Thanks. -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 03:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm not talking about anything indiscriminate. I'm talking about completeness. I also am not talking about analysis any more than a plot summary is analysis. Neither am I talking about something that replaces watching a film. However, a list of each scene and its action answers questions about a film that a researcher might be interested in. A plot summary as we've defined it can't do the same job, because there's no confidence that the summary organizes the material according to film order. So for that reason a breakdown offers information about a film that a plot summary cannot. That means that it has value beyond what a film article currently could. -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 15:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
That's a complicated response. In comparing a plot summary and a scene breakdown, I think the reality is that the summary will be more of an interpretation. So which is truer to the objectives? 2. I don't accept the amateur / non-amateur distinction as one that creates a value difference. (or do you mean amateur in its original meaning -- a lover of...?) -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 19:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Wait, I didn't say a breakdown is interpretive. I said a summary is more interpretive. Why? Because summarizing requires selecting. A complete scene breakdown (reducing each scene to its action in about the size of a tweet) doesn't require editorial selection; all the scenes are in. The speculation about motivation that you posit would be equally unwelcome as it is in summaries. Summaries are of questionable value because they are incomplete. So, which form is more useful to the readers? Summaries, because they necessitate a level of selection on the part of the editor, are not useful for someone who simply wants a neutral recounting of the film, nor to someone who wants an analysis of the film. At least a breakdown is a reliable ordering of the scenes. (A further benefit: it would allow readers to avoid spoilers.) Clearly some would object for good reasons and bad. That they require interpretation is not one of them, any more than a citation from book is an interpretation. -- Ring Cinema ( talk) 13:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
The September 2010 project coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting five coordinators from a pool of candidates to serve for the next year; members are invited to nominate themselves if interested. Please do not vote yet, voting will begin on September 15. This message has been sent as you are registered as an active member of the project. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 03:45, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
The nominator dropped the ball on this one big time. Not only was his flawed nomination based upon totally inapplicable criteria, but if he had done even a minimal before, he would have found sources in spades... juat as I have. [5] I voted speedy close at the AFD. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 06:09, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Re: Four (Film) Many thanks for your message, EriK. Happy to hold fire until the film comes out. Then let someone else put it on. LOL! best wishes, JLang42 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlang42 ( talk • contribs) 15:18, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi Erik, sticky prods are for unsourced articles not poorly sourced ones. It takes a reliable source to remove a valid sticky prod, but it only takes a link that supports something about the subject to prevent an article being tagged in the first place. In the recent RFC I didn't quite get consensus to broaden sticky prods to articles "sourced" from Myspace, Facebook, LinkedIn and Utube - IMHO all rather more worrying than IMDB. Ϣere SpielChequers 19:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi. I'm not happy with the structure and layout of this article, as it doesn't pretend to follow or abide by MOS:FILMS. I don't want my own opinion on this matter interfering with my judgment as to whether the article should pass or fail GA, so if you get a chance, could you very briefly comment on the layout? I would like your opinion. Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 02:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree and disagree. We do need to perhaps set a clearer standard as to how persisitant ongoing coverage of a film topic might merit an article if there is too much sourced content for a decent merge. As NFF does allow consideration of rare exceptions, we can perhaps guide what qualifies as an exception so as to not open the floodgates. Like yourself, I do not wish a flood of minimal film project articles... but I do not expect a flood even after the very few examples that currently exist per consensus as exceptions to NFF. However, and in accepting that there ARE exceptions, I think it best to draw a clearer line in the sand. For instance, I do not think anyone would doubt the notability of the article The Hobbit film project, and it has not even reached the pre-production stage. It is the "topic" which has exceeded guideline requirements to be "wirthy of note". And we both recall the recent discussions about The Avengers film project. I think some preparation now will better guide the future. Shall we discuss ideas? Or (chuckle) perhaps Project Film might avoid becoming involved in articles about non-films until they actually become films... and so let them stay or go based upon their own merits and WP:NOT, WP:N and WP:GNG. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 00:22, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
You're correct... the proposed exceptions will likely be for the blockbusters because of the nature of who and what is involved. So I think we need pay close attention to span of coverage, as any topic, film or no, has to have more and enduring coverage beyond "recent" else run afoul of WP:NOTNEWS. If there is not enough contextually and reliably sourced content to support a decently encyclopedic stand-alone, a merge to somewhere suitable will still be the decent alternative. But my own first exposure to a "project article" was not a blockbuster... or something touted by a major studio... nor something that could have been folded into a series article. You may remember Ashes to Ashes (Goldie Hawn film project) from last year (not a big-budget major-studio blockbuster), which had (and still has) enduring coverage over many years as the project received coverage for Goldie's various attempts to get the project under weigh... with articles begginning in 1996 speaking of her intent, [6] [7] and some as recently as last month ago where the film was still receiving coverage with yet another article speaking toward Goldie's hopes that it might yet get done. [8] Strangely, in the 2005 book Goldie Hawn and Kate Hudson the author specifically speaks about the film in past tense, stating it was already shot... in contrast to the 2006 50+: igniting a revolution to reinvent America which speaks toward her struggling to finance the film. Did some parts get shot? Does not seem so... but as a topic it has received enough coverage to satisfy the GNG, and even if not made, meets the "production is notable" caveat of NFF. So... what I am coming around to is the nature of the coverage.
The Hobbit film project has received a tremendous amount of coverage for an even more extended period of time than even some successful biggies. The nature of the project, the individuals involved, and the allowing instruction at NOT have given us one terrific article... about a "film project"... one well worth being of note... and one that is far from ever having its first actor cast. Would you wish it tossed as a violation of guideline in contravention to the allowing policy? Better perhaps... we might consider and offer it as a gleaming example of what it takes to become an allowable exception to NFF. My understanding is that when the two are in conflict, the edge is given to policy over guideline... so in acknowledging that exceptions are going to be proposed, all we might best do is make sure that whatever exceptions are proposed, these exceptions must themselves qualify as terrific examples of what an exception should be... and this through extensive coverage that is more than recent, and in in exceeding depth, so as to be seen as well worth note. Better to plan for the storm than curse the rain. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 02:49, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Even as I was writing the above, and despite my being the defender of existance for the Ashes to Ashes article when it went through AFD last year, I have been giving consideration of myself doing a proper sourced merge to the Goldie Hawn article, and I do not think anyone will have reason to complain when I am finished. So let's take that "example" of a project article off the plate in this discussion... as in a few days or hours it will be mute.
Instead though, let's tackle the real dragon in its cave. Please go ahead and send The Hobbit film project to AFD or propose it for a several year Incubation and let's both see what happens. Either exceptions are allowed to exist per policy or guideline, or they are not. So we may as well take on the Godzilla of exceptions rather than quibble about the lessor. If a point is to be made about why NFF exists, and a consensus for future exceptions is to be established, THAT is the article that will shake things up. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 01:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Any use of the term "film project" must be accompanied by sources that show "production itself notable per existing notability guideline as set by WP:NFF... and Marvin fails miserably. Oh, bless some newb for trying... but like any article that doesn't have souracble notability, Marvin is gonna go... no matter what the article's title is. Its use of film project in its title is no more or less important than any other type of title in a "topic" totaly unable show notability. But yes... we do need to better define what creates a per policy and guideline allowable exception, so that we have fewer premature attempts.
What different type of disambiguation term than "film project" might you suggest for topics that have proven themselves notable per policy and that mother of all sub notability guidelines... what type of disambiguation for topics that are NOT films? For if the use of the phrase "film project" for something that is not yet a film is such an anathema to Project Film, we need find another way to describe articles about such topics in the making/planning/creation stages, as long as such topics meet pertinent notability guidelines... so that the topics may themselves be judged for what they are, and not what they are not. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 07:37, 9 September 2010 (UTC)