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Durova
362
05:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button
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SineBot (
talk) 05:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, thank you for the messages, and the reminder. I'm still learning to use the system, but I will try to add that tilder always. I realise now that I made a couple of errors with the html
Ebanony (
talk)
06:34, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Great work on this article. Thanks for keeping this together! bd2412 T 20:42, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war according to the reverts you have made on
War of 1812. Note that the
three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the
three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to
discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a
consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek
dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request
page protection. If the edit warring continues, you may be
blocked from editing without further notice.
SarekOfVulcan (
talk)
14:36, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
If you read the talk page and the notes I wrote on the reverted edits, you will see that I specifically asked these two individuals to address their concrens on the talk page, that I myself already had engaged in this very topic on the talk page & neither - as of this writing - has added anything to it on this topic. That entire article on that war is one of the most biased I've seen, and that's not just my pov. Ebanony ( talk) 15:14, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Before you go off again, there was an IP address from about 18 months ago that wrote under the name Bully Defender backing Death and yes I am highly suspicious about it, it has nothing to do with you whatsoever that I am aware of. It is in the archives if you wish to look it up. If we are going to have words let it be for things we intend not mistakes. If you have questions about why the admin took the action he did you might contact him and ask, I did not request any admin to take action. Perhaps one of the other editors did, I don't know. There are logs that are generated when there are edit wars taking place that look like revert wars and there is a 3 rr rule you should read, you came pretty close to a block. The reason I put that warning in my revert was so that you didn't get blocked, in other words I was attempting to help you a bit. Let you and I both keep the comments to the fact that you and I disagree on the facts, while I may think some of your positions on the article are a bit out there, that in no way implies that I think that you are out there or nuts or anything like that. As for the reverts I believe that was firmly in the primary source/OR category and that isn't a talk page kind of thing. Though I did tell you that I believed it would be OR or so close to it as to not make a difference. That is the only reason I reverted it. My positions are just that, mine, I don't hate you or dislike you because you have a different opinion. As I have stated before it isn't personal. Tirronan ( talk) 16:18, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Well I don't really know anything about the old problem you guys had with IP or sockpuppet, and I don't want to get involved with it. I thought it was a referenece to me, but it isn't. Now because of ignorance on that topic I was going to respond, began writing, accidently saved part of the response on the talk page and then deleted it - that's why I deleted it: I'm not getting involved in that row. Now I was also going to talk a little about the POV's, your not refuting what I wrote, but I had already written about that a while back. Hence I deleted it to avoid needless arguing.
Now I was wrong with the 3RR's because I wasn't aware of the rule. You say you warned me in a friendly way, ok. But it didn't seem like it to me at the time, but fine. Seperate from this is that some people would consider the pov I asked to be included to be 'out there', but 1) I never said here I supported it 2) I never said it was without documentary evidence 3) it's not really that far fetched, despite what some would have us believe. That's not my POV. I gave the writers, and they are respected people who did good work. I made my point, posted some of their arguments, and no one wanted it. I didn't push it further. I agreed to leave it and deleted it.
Now I did revert the edits. Why? The guy calls it 'apologia', and then hinself uses a disputed number of 2.500 men at Detroit. I do not base what I'm saying solely on Hull's writings. Yet, I'd have been happy to discuss the change in the talk page; I wrote that in the edit screen several times, and he just continued reverting it. I get a warning and not he. That involves you insofar as you then reverted it & said other editors agree with you. FIne. This is why I avoided making edits to the page itself because I wanted to avoid reverts, and I asked others to discuss possible changes. Now this guy wants to make a change.
Fine. But nobody has addressed the points I raised on the numbers I say are disputed. What can I do? I'm not defending Hull, but he wasn't as incompetent as you and others say, and there's evidence on it.
I didn't claim it was a personal issue of who hates whom or who dislikes whom is not what I said. Rather after discussing my proposed changes, I said the article seemed unfair & was ideological lacking neutrality - and it is. That's very different from 'he doesn't like me'. Now I did later on think it was a personal attack with the 3RR's and the sockpuppet references & bots. You say that's not the case, and I left it alone yesterday. I always agreed to disagree on the facts & discuss proposed changes. Gallon didn't discuss anything. No one else did. I almost got blocked. I'm not looking to get blocked, so that is why I deleted my comment (you can tell it wasn't even completed when it posted) to avoid any further problems with you blokes. I don't feel I can make any contributions to that page, so I left it alone and don't plan on returning. Ebanony ( talk) 06:37, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
With regard to the recent disagreements on your insertion of a defence of William Hull into the War of 1812#Overview, you asked that I should discuss the matter on the article's talk page. As I considered that your inclusion was a very clear breach of one of Wikipedia's fundamental principles, that of No original research, I did not feel that there was any need to do so.
The policy states that "All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." William Hull's defence, published many years after the war, is clearly a primary source, and by its nature, one that will be partisan. (Whether any of its assertions are correct will be immaterial, unless supported by a secondary source.)
Your justification of your second reversion, "... 2) it's not apologia or undue emphasis on a source; ..." struck me as mere naysaying, rather than reasoned argument.
Your third point, that my numbers involved at Detroit were incorrect, may well have been right, although as a minor point I was merely using the numbers from the version to which I was reverting. However, this brings up my point of undue weight. In a section labelled "Overview", a detailed rehashing of numbers, sources, subsequent events (Hull's court-martial etc), is inappropriate. It is enough merely to note that Hull surrendered Detroit. (The numbers involved may be deleted if there is any question about them.) Wider discussion belongs in the section on War of 1812#Invasions of Upper and Lower Canada, 1812.
I have many times had my own edits reverted or disputed. My actions on these occasions have been to provide citations from reliable sources to back up my claims, modify my edits where matters are in doubt, or give up. I have simply reverted only in clear cases of vandalism or personal vendettas.
May I say that your edits to the article on William Hull, where Hull's own accounts are more appropriate provided care is taken to indicate the source, and also the Siege of Detroit, were far better than those you made to the War of 1812 article, lacking pontifical judgements and anachronistic language. HLGallon ( talk) 18:59, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
I have reverted your last edit, because you blanked all the content, and I'm not convinced (at the moment) that this is necessary. If you check the talk page, I have identified several examples of plagiarism which should be rewritten as a matter of urgently, also, in several cases I have identified where the other editor (who really ought to know better) should be using and sourcing a straight quote, but you cannot list the timelines etc as copyvios, nor the statements of fact, unless there is something particularly unique or identifiable about the wording. Phrases such as "first US Secretary of State", "neoclassical mansion" and "50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence" are not really possible to restate simply.
If you wish, you can retag anything that you still think problematic but be careful to tag only the bad sections. You can also list at Wikipedia:Copyright_problems if you think the user is contravening copyright generally. -- Elen of the Roads ( talk) 15:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you must
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --
SineBot (
talk)
00:11, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Sadads (
talk) has given you a cup of tea, for taking the time to apologize when it wasn't necessary. Thanks for staying
calm and civil! Tea somehow promotes
WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a tea, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or someone putting up with some stick at this time. Enjoy!
Spread the lovely, warm, refreshing goodness of tea by adding {{ subst:WikiTea}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
No problems at all, I wasn't worried just didn't want someone to misread. Enjoy the tea! Sadads ( talk) 00:15, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi. Your listings at the copyright problems board have come due for admin evaluation. Thank you very much for bringing these problems to light. I have blanked George Washington and slavery in keeping with the directions at WP:CP for situations where reversion/removal of copyrighted content is complex; this will give interested contributors an opportunity to propose a usable rewrite in the temporary page provided for the purpose, but keeps us from continuing to publish copyrighted content out of policy in the meantime. That one will be revisited in a week.
I see that you had blanked Thomas Jefferson and slavery, but that a decision was made to rewrite it in article space instead. You obviously researched the issue very thoroughly. Does the rewrite alleviate your concerns? -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
The Jefferson article, well, I tried to do that, but several people told me that was the wrong code, and they left a note in the talk page. There is one other editor working on the Jefferson page, and so far he's edited a lot of the stuff that was a problem in the NPOV, but I'm not sure about the plagiarised work because he's not yet finished. Too soon to answer that yet. Please check back in a few days, and then we'll know if the cut and pasted texts have been removed (as of now, only some have). Ebanony ( talk) 10:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
could you check on the pre-colonial section of fugitive slave laws ... I think "Montana territories" is vandalism, anachronistic if the editor meant Pawnees, but I don't know how to restore/rewrite the passage. see my fugitive discussion entry ... add to the slavery in Dutch territory fragment, the English continued, did the Swedes?, add Iroquois? when you get a chance, thanks. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 10:45, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Ebanony. My problem with that section was not necessarily the POV, but the fact that there was nothing there to provide the reader with an idea of what exactly the Armenian Genocide was. Rather than began with "The Armenian Genocide was...", it speaks about some resolutions being passed by Congress and other parliaments in other countries. That section is poorly suited for a reader who wants a brief summary of what the Armenian genocide was. I have a feeling this section was tampered with in the past and that information was removed almost completely or bit by bit. That is why I believed the first paragraph found on the Armenian Genocide page would provide a better introduction but I find it strange that my edit was reverted completely.
The section on the denial of the Armenian genocide, however, is rife with POV problems and it almost looks like the wording was plagiarized from another author. The wording used actually presents it as a legitimate counter-weight against the genocide when modern scholarship has entirely rejected the arguments used by the denialists. I apologize if my description of McCarthy came as somewhat harsh, but he is an individual who is on the margins of academia and his position has been roundly criticized by other historians (read about in here: Justin McCarthy (American historian)). Best,-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 18:01, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Ebanony --
It appears that you've got a good grasp on Thomas Jefferson's history, and I'm glad that you're here contributing to the article Thomas Jefferson. However, I'd like to suggest that you might want to cool off a bit on the talk page, and stop battling with people there over Hemmings. I promise you that if you cannot arrive at a consensus on the talk page, there are ways to do third-party dispute resolution that will generally make sure that your concerns are dealt with, if you are patient.
Also, I think that the other editors are actually being quite reasonable about not having a paragraph about Hemmings in the lead. We need to focus on broader and more historically significant issues there, and only cover Hemmings later in the section about slavery.
Anyhow, let me know if you need anything, or have any comments/questions. (Feel free to just respond here.)
-- Jrtayloriv ( talk) 05:57, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi Ebanony! Commenting on this: Did you know that you can use internal wikilinks with anchors? In other words, you can do this instead of this. Cheers! -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 13:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Ebanony: Thank you for your note. I assure you no harm was done. A reply is on my talk page. Cheers, JNW ( talk) 14:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi- I know you've been cleaning up this article, but part of what you removed has now resulted in an incoherent sentence. For example: "Charles Beard and Andrew Bacevich U.S. imperialism discussed American policy as being driven by self-interested expansionism as far back as the writing of the Constitution.", which was previously "The conservative critique of U.S. imperialism has been identified with historians such as Charles Beard and Andrew Bacevich, part of a tradition of non-interventionism, often referred to derogatorily..." (see [7]). Please fix that for us, thanks. Also, I am a little concerned that you may have removed too much from that section, it seemed to describe the theories in more detail before. I totally understand removing unsourced info, but I am a little confused to why you removed sourced info, because the article now doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe you could go over the changes that you made a bit? Thanks, -- Funandtrvl ( talk) 22:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Votes are needed on the Thomas Jefferson talk page, (1st section) Gwillhickers ( talk) 02:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your notice and pursuing this administratively. I had not explored the options. Yes, you've represented my position. I think we have a responsibility to reflect the scholarship, as I've repeatedly said on the Thomas Jefferson Talk page. Parkwells ( talk) 16:48, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Your attention and input is needed again on the Thomas Jefferson talk page. -- Gwillhickers ( talk) 22:21, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your steady support and knowledge for getting the full story told. Parkwells ( talk) 13:04, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Gwillhickers. A discussion is going on there about that editor. Coemgenus 15:12, 12 June 2011 (UTC) (Using {{ pls}})
Hi Ebanony,
would you mind reformatting your recent edit there? At the moment, the text is fairly ragged - if I start inserting answers, people will easily get lost. Also, I would find it easier to discuss the issue if we could stick with one point at a time. Thanks! -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 14:28, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
[13] Hi, Ebanony - Coemgenus has proposed a solution, which you might want to look at again. Parkwells ( talk) 12:12, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
An editor has moved most of the historiography content on the "Jefferson-Hemings controversy" to a new article, Debate about paternity of Sally Hemings' children, but it has been recommended for speedy deletion as duplicating material in the Jefferson DNA data article and not having included the Talk page discussions on this topic. Parkwells ( talk) 17:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello Ebanony. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click
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Welcome!
Hello, Ebanony, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for Prigg v. Pennsylvania. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
Wikipedian! Please
sign your messages on
discussion pages using four
tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out
Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on
my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}}
before the question. Again, welcome!
Durova
362
05:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --
SineBot (
talk) 05:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, thank you for the messages, and the reminder. I'm still learning to use the system, but I will try to add that tilder always. I realise now that I made a couple of errors with the html
Ebanony (
talk)
06:34, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Great work on this article. Thanks for keeping this together! bd2412 T 20:42, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war according to the reverts you have made on
War of 1812. Note that the
three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the
three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to
discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a
consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek
dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request
page protection. If the edit warring continues, you may be
blocked from editing without further notice.
SarekOfVulcan (
talk)
14:36, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
If you read the talk page and the notes I wrote on the reverted edits, you will see that I specifically asked these two individuals to address their concrens on the talk page, that I myself already had engaged in this very topic on the talk page & neither - as of this writing - has added anything to it on this topic. That entire article on that war is one of the most biased I've seen, and that's not just my pov. Ebanony ( talk) 15:14, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Before you go off again, there was an IP address from about 18 months ago that wrote under the name Bully Defender backing Death and yes I am highly suspicious about it, it has nothing to do with you whatsoever that I am aware of. It is in the archives if you wish to look it up. If we are going to have words let it be for things we intend not mistakes. If you have questions about why the admin took the action he did you might contact him and ask, I did not request any admin to take action. Perhaps one of the other editors did, I don't know. There are logs that are generated when there are edit wars taking place that look like revert wars and there is a 3 rr rule you should read, you came pretty close to a block. The reason I put that warning in my revert was so that you didn't get blocked, in other words I was attempting to help you a bit. Let you and I both keep the comments to the fact that you and I disagree on the facts, while I may think some of your positions on the article are a bit out there, that in no way implies that I think that you are out there or nuts or anything like that. As for the reverts I believe that was firmly in the primary source/OR category and that isn't a talk page kind of thing. Though I did tell you that I believed it would be OR or so close to it as to not make a difference. That is the only reason I reverted it. My positions are just that, mine, I don't hate you or dislike you because you have a different opinion. As I have stated before it isn't personal. Tirronan ( talk) 16:18, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Well I don't really know anything about the old problem you guys had with IP or sockpuppet, and I don't want to get involved with it. I thought it was a referenece to me, but it isn't. Now because of ignorance on that topic I was going to respond, began writing, accidently saved part of the response on the talk page and then deleted it - that's why I deleted it: I'm not getting involved in that row. Now I was also going to talk a little about the POV's, your not refuting what I wrote, but I had already written about that a while back. Hence I deleted it to avoid needless arguing.
Now I was wrong with the 3RR's because I wasn't aware of the rule. You say you warned me in a friendly way, ok. But it didn't seem like it to me at the time, but fine. Seperate from this is that some people would consider the pov I asked to be included to be 'out there', but 1) I never said here I supported it 2) I never said it was without documentary evidence 3) it's not really that far fetched, despite what some would have us believe. That's not my POV. I gave the writers, and they are respected people who did good work. I made my point, posted some of their arguments, and no one wanted it. I didn't push it further. I agreed to leave it and deleted it.
Now I did revert the edits. Why? The guy calls it 'apologia', and then hinself uses a disputed number of 2.500 men at Detroit. I do not base what I'm saying solely on Hull's writings. Yet, I'd have been happy to discuss the change in the talk page; I wrote that in the edit screen several times, and he just continued reverting it. I get a warning and not he. That involves you insofar as you then reverted it & said other editors agree with you. FIne. This is why I avoided making edits to the page itself because I wanted to avoid reverts, and I asked others to discuss possible changes. Now this guy wants to make a change.
Fine. But nobody has addressed the points I raised on the numbers I say are disputed. What can I do? I'm not defending Hull, but he wasn't as incompetent as you and others say, and there's evidence on it.
I didn't claim it was a personal issue of who hates whom or who dislikes whom is not what I said. Rather after discussing my proposed changes, I said the article seemed unfair & was ideological lacking neutrality - and it is. That's very different from 'he doesn't like me'. Now I did later on think it was a personal attack with the 3RR's and the sockpuppet references & bots. You say that's not the case, and I left it alone yesterday. I always agreed to disagree on the facts & discuss proposed changes. Gallon didn't discuss anything. No one else did. I almost got blocked. I'm not looking to get blocked, so that is why I deleted my comment (you can tell it wasn't even completed when it posted) to avoid any further problems with you blokes. I don't feel I can make any contributions to that page, so I left it alone and don't plan on returning. Ebanony ( talk) 06:37, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
With regard to the recent disagreements on your insertion of a defence of William Hull into the War of 1812#Overview, you asked that I should discuss the matter on the article's talk page. As I considered that your inclusion was a very clear breach of one of Wikipedia's fundamental principles, that of No original research, I did not feel that there was any need to do so.
The policy states that "All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." William Hull's defence, published many years after the war, is clearly a primary source, and by its nature, one that will be partisan. (Whether any of its assertions are correct will be immaterial, unless supported by a secondary source.)
Your justification of your second reversion, "... 2) it's not apologia or undue emphasis on a source; ..." struck me as mere naysaying, rather than reasoned argument.
Your third point, that my numbers involved at Detroit were incorrect, may well have been right, although as a minor point I was merely using the numbers from the version to which I was reverting. However, this brings up my point of undue weight. In a section labelled "Overview", a detailed rehashing of numbers, sources, subsequent events (Hull's court-martial etc), is inappropriate. It is enough merely to note that Hull surrendered Detroit. (The numbers involved may be deleted if there is any question about them.) Wider discussion belongs in the section on War of 1812#Invasions of Upper and Lower Canada, 1812.
I have many times had my own edits reverted or disputed. My actions on these occasions have been to provide citations from reliable sources to back up my claims, modify my edits where matters are in doubt, or give up. I have simply reverted only in clear cases of vandalism or personal vendettas.
May I say that your edits to the article on William Hull, where Hull's own accounts are more appropriate provided care is taken to indicate the source, and also the Siege of Detroit, were far better than those you made to the War of 1812 article, lacking pontifical judgements and anachronistic language. HLGallon ( talk) 18:59, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
I have reverted your last edit, because you blanked all the content, and I'm not convinced (at the moment) that this is necessary. If you check the talk page, I have identified several examples of plagiarism which should be rewritten as a matter of urgently, also, in several cases I have identified where the other editor (who really ought to know better) should be using and sourcing a straight quote, but you cannot list the timelines etc as copyvios, nor the statements of fact, unless there is something particularly unique or identifiable about the wording. Phrases such as "first US Secretary of State", "neoclassical mansion" and "50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence" are not really possible to restate simply.
If you wish, you can retag anything that you still think problematic but be careful to tag only the bad sections. You can also list at Wikipedia:Copyright_problems if you think the user is contravening copyright generally. -- Elen of the Roads ( talk) 15:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you must
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --
SineBot (
talk)
00:11, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Sadads (
talk) has given you a cup of tea, for taking the time to apologize when it wasn't necessary. Thanks for staying
calm and civil! Tea somehow promotes
WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a tea, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or someone putting up with some stick at this time. Enjoy!
Spread the lovely, warm, refreshing goodness of tea by adding {{ subst:WikiTea}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
No problems at all, I wasn't worried just didn't want someone to misread. Enjoy the tea! Sadads ( talk) 00:15, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi. Your listings at the copyright problems board have come due for admin evaluation. Thank you very much for bringing these problems to light. I have blanked George Washington and slavery in keeping with the directions at WP:CP for situations where reversion/removal of copyrighted content is complex; this will give interested contributors an opportunity to propose a usable rewrite in the temporary page provided for the purpose, but keeps us from continuing to publish copyrighted content out of policy in the meantime. That one will be revisited in a week.
I see that you had blanked Thomas Jefferson and slavery, but that a decision was made to rewrite it in article space instead. You obviously researched the issue very thoroughly. Does the rewrite alleviate your concerns? -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
The Jefferson article, well, I tried to do that, but several people told me that was the wrong code, and they left a note in the talk page. There is one other editor working on the Jefferson page, and so far he's edited a lot of the stuff that was a problem in the NPOV, but I'm not sure about the plagiarised work because he's not yet finished. Too soon to answer that yet. Please check back in a few days, and then we'll know if the cut and pasted texts have been removed (as of now, only some have). Ebanony ( talk) 10:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
could you check on the pre-colonial section of fugitive slave laws ... I think "Montana territories" is vandalism, anachronistic if the editor meant Pawnees, but I don't know how to restore/rewrite the passage. see my fugitive discussion entry ... add to the slavery in Dutch territory fragment, the English continued, did the Swedes?, add Iroquois? when you get a chance, thanks. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 10:45, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Ebanony. My problem with that section was not necessarily the POV, but the fact that there was nothing there to provide the reader with an idea of what exactly the Armenian Genocide was. Rather than began with "The Armenian Genocide was...", it speaks about some resolutions being passed by Congress and other parliaments in other countries. That section is poorly suited for a reader who wants a brief summary of what the Armenian genocide was. I have a feeling this section was tampered with in the past and that information was removed almost completely or bit by bit. That is why I believed the first paragraph found on the Armenian Genocide page would provide a better introduction but I find it strange that my edit was reverted completely.
The section on the denial of the Armenian genocide, however, is rife with POV problems and it almost looks like the wording was plagiarized from another author. The wording used actually presents it as a legitimate counter-weight against the genocide when modern scholarship has entirely rejected the arguments used by the denialists. I apologize if my description of McCarthy came as somewhat harsh, but he is an individual who is on the margins of academia and his position has been roundly criticized by other historians (read about in here: Justin McCarthy (American historian)). Best,-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 18:01, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Ebanony --
It appears that you've got a good grasp on Thomas Jefferson's history, and I'm glad that you're here contributing to the article Thomas Jefferson. However, I'd like to suggest that you might want to cool off a bit on the talk page, and stop battling with people there over Hemmings. I promise you that if you cannot arrive at a consensus on the talk page, there are ways to do third-party dispute resolution that will generally make sure that your concerns are dealt with, if you are patient.
Also, I think that the other editors are actually being quite reasonable about not having a paragraph about Hemmings in the lead. We need to focus on broader and more historically significant issues there, and only cover Hemmings later in the section about slavery.
Anyhow, let me know if you need anything, or have any comments/questions. (Feel free to just respond here.)
-- Jrtayloriv ( talk) 05:57, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi Ebanony! Commenting on this: Did you know that you can use internal wikilinks with anchors? In other words, you can do this instead of this. Cheers! -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 13:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Ebanony: Thank you for your note. I assure you no harm was done. A reply is on my talk page. Cheers, JNW ( talk) 14:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi- I know you've been cleaning up this article, but part of what you removed has now resulted in an incoherent sentence. For example: "Charles Beard and Andrew Bacevich U.S. imperialism discussed American policy as being driven by self-interested expansionism as far back as the writing of the Constitution.", which was previously "The conservative critique of U.S. imperialism has been identified with historians such as Charles Beard and Andrew Bacevich, part of a tradition of non-interventionism, often referred to derogatorily..." (see [7]). Please fix that for us, thanks. Also, I am a little concerned that you may have removed too much from that section, it seemed to describe the theories in more detail before. I totally understand removing unsourced info, but I am a little confused to why you removed sourced info, because the article now doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe you could go over the changes that you made a bit? Thanks, -- Funandtrvl ( talk) 22:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Votes are needed on the Thomas Jefferson talk page, (1st section) Gwillhickers ( talk) 02:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your notice and pursuing this administratively. I had not explored the options. Yes, you've represented my position. I think we have a responsibility to reflect the scholarship, as I've repeatedly said on the Thomas Jefferson Talk page. Parkwells ( talk) 16:48, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Your attention and input is needed again on the Thomas Jefferson talk page. -- Gwillhickers ( talk) 22:21, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your steady support and knowledge for getting the full story told. Parkwells ( talk) 13:04, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Gwillhickers. A discussion is going on there about that editor. Coemgenus 15:12, 12 June 2011 (UTC) (Using {{ pls}})
Hi Ebanony,
would you mind reformatting your recent edit there? At the moment, the text is fairly ragged - if I start inserting answers, people will easily get lost. Also, I would find it easier to discuss the issue if we could stick with one point at a time. Thanks! -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 14:28, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
[13] Hi, Ebanony - Coemgenus has proposed a solution, which you might want to look at again. Parkwells ( talk) 12:12, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
An editor has moved most of the historiography content on the "Jefferson-Hemings controversy" to a new article, Debate about paternity of Sally Hemings' children, but it has been recommended for speedy deletion as duplicating material in the Jefferson DNA data article and not having included the Talk page discussions on this topic. Parkwells ( talk) 17:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
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