This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | → | Archive 50 |
Hey Dank. I nominated the article Dave Gallaher at WP:FAC about ten days ago but haven't yet had a single comment (other than an image review). You did comment at the peer review (archived here), so I was hoping that if you had any time you'd mind commenting at the FAC nomination page ( Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dave Gallaher/archive1). Your help at the PR was great, and I'd appreciate any further feedback (however brief) that you'd care to give. -- Shudde talk 08:44, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
If you have time, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the legacy section of the Russian battleship Potemkin. I've added a bunch of new material in the section and I need some fresh eyes on how it all flows and fits together. I've added three nifty quotes on how the battleship was, at least partially, the hero of the movie, but I would strongly expect that that's two too many. So if you could give your opinions on which one needs to be kept and how the whole thing fits together, I'd be grateful.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 21:26, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
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04:31, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
The WikiChevrons | ||
For completing 29 reviews during April–June 2015, on behalf of the Wikiproject Military History coordinators, I hereby award you the WikiChevrons. Thanks/cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 09:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC) |
I have altered this, after it was pointed out that my original choice was the third California highway this year. I have changed all the consequential pages, but not the protection, if any. Brianboulton ( talk) 09:12, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I have received a request to change the TFA scheduled for 23 July, as the main editor had left a note on the article's talkpage requesting that this not be scheduled until October 2017. As I was at fault in not seeing the note, I will defer to his request. Again I'll do the consequential changes. The issue concerning 24 July will not be resolved before Sunday. Brianboulton ( talk) 18:20, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello Dank,
Not sure if you have gotten any more time on your hands since the Battle of Malvern Hill article was at FA, but it's now at ACR with WikiProject Military History. I'm going to try and take it to FAC again, perhaps in the coming weeks, and I was wondering if you could do a copyedit to the article. Cheers, -- ceradon ( talk • contribs) 19:08, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Sorry Dank, that's simply crap English, it needs fixing. And modifying a redirect while I'm at it is just fine. There's nothing at ERRORS that suggests these shouldn't be fixed. By all means let me know what you find so problematic with changing "did close to" to "caused", and why fixing an obvious redirect is an issue. Thanks. The Rambling Man ( talk) 20:27, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Would a third opinion help or hurt? Although this site objects to "do damage", the phrase is used by several authorities who don't call it "heinous", "appalling", "horrendous", or any other pejorative. Wiktionary:damage, for instance, uses the example "The storm did a lot of damage to the area." Anyway, the phrase was "did close to a billion dollars in damage", which can't be replaced with just "damaged". Google Books shows far more hits for "do/cause a million dollars' worth of damage" than for "do/cause a million dollars in damage", so if anything needed to be fixed, it was doing or causing dollars, as if the storm were the U.S. Mint.
As for fixing redirects versus WP:NOTBROKEN, I no longer raise this issue unless someone else does it first, because it causes an amazing amount of anger. But if you don't like a guideline, you should really be trying to fix it, not ignore it, no matter how many other Main Page editors have the same attitude. The problem will keep coming back until the contradiction is resolved one way or the other: either stop "fixing" redirects, or fix the guideline. Long ago I wrote User:Art LaPella/Because the guideline says so. Art LaPella ( talk) 00:56, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
[Copied from WP:ERRORS, since that page isn't archived]:
I just undid a couple of edits that look like they were meant as copyediting. I want to be clear that I don't insist that the writer(s) of the article express things just the way I would; I try to give writers a lot of latitude. I'm pushing back against copyediting in cases where the sources I use disagree with those choices, because bad copyediting can feel burdensome to writers. I'm also pushing back against making undiscussed changes on TFA articles on the day they're on the Main Page; I'm much less likely to revert, and more likely to be broad-minded, if the changes are made when the page isn't protected. So, give me a minute and I'll give you some references to support my choices. - Dank ( push to talk) 20:30, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
[end of text copied from ERRORS]
Footnote: Brian and Chris would prefer not to pursue any of this for the moment, and I have no problem with that. - Dank ( push to talk) 12:52, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm shortly going to launch an RfC. If possible I would prefer it to be a teamwork. I would very much value your input. Would you please review the first very basic draft and let me have your thoughts on the talk page. Thanks. -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 16:45, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Hi Dank. I note you had some health problems earlier this month; I hope you're feeling better now, though if not, maybe one of your talk page stalkers can help me :). I nominated Tank Girl (film) for FAC a month ago ( see here). One of my two major reviewers says the article needs a copy edit before he can support it. If you could have a look at the article, I would very much appreciate it. Cheers. Freikorp ( talk) 18:06, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Hey, thanks! I checked out the article, updating it for something that came out earlier this year. I suppose it'll be the opposite problem as Brenda 60, too much info in lead :P Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 22:51, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Regarding your request: I thought I would reply in what is hopefully a quieter place. Yes, I think many people looking for a new process to remove administrative privileges from an editor are viewing this as something that enables changes to the Request for Adminship process. Personally, I don't think that this necessarily disqualifies someone who has been involved in past discussions regarding RfA from evaluating consensus in this one. Community members who have shown interest in understanding, interpreting, and developing policies and procedures bring a degree of engagement to the closure process that can be effective. For better or worse, though, there are some editors who value a lack of any linkage to the area of discussion as being a stronger consideration over other qualifications.
On a digression: the demands on volunteers evaluating consensus seem to have crept up steadily. Calls for open deliberation just result in the community continuing the conversation after it has supposedly closed, and a lot of back-seat driving taking place. Coupling this with a desire for fixed deadlines, I feel it will be increasingly difficult to find anyone to close contentious discussions. Evaluators need space to bounce ideas off each other without having to continually respond to a dozen people questioning each nuance. There can be checkpoints where feedback is solicited, but if the group is required to justify each sentence it utters, the process bogs down. If the community wants to have persons with tested track records in interpreting discussions in an even-handed manner, perhaps it should be open to using professional mediators, who are evaluated on this basis and can only continue to be employed if they indeed demonstrate this ability. isaacl ( talk) 01:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Hey Dank. Our discussion on the talk page of the BARC proposal, combined with the Liz RfA, and then combined with seeing a user's page today with badge icons that I've seen before on other user pages got me thinking. Well, my first thought is that as a copy editor I'm sure you want to rip my fingers off for that run-on sentence :) I digress...
The user page I saw was this one. Nothing extraordinary, but like many user pages it has badge icons for work done on the project. In this case, for DYK noms and GA status stuff. Liz has done a lot of non-article work, and she's been criticized for a lack of content creation. I noted in my comments on her RfA that a considerable amount of work occurs outside of article creation that is pivotal to the functioning of this project. Seeing your comments about being a closer on the BARC proposal, I sensed you felt you were criticized, put down, what have you; a negative feeling.
Those three disparate facts came together in my brain today and it dawned on me that we do no have badge icons (that I'm aware of) for work outside of mainspace. Well, we do have them for various user rights. But, we don't have them for work. For people that like badge icons, that seems wrong to me. We should give credit where credit is due. To that end, I created File:Symbol rfc.gif, which can be used as a badge icon to highlight closure of RfCs. (note: it's in gif format rather than svg; I didn't bother putting it into Illustrator to get an svg out of it)
You deserve credit for the contentious RfCs you have closed over the years. That sort of thing is lost in history for everyone. Nobody really knows, unless they happen to be well aware of your excellent work in this arena. So, there you go. Enjoy! -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:12, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
The Contentious RfC Closer Award | ||
To you Dank, I award the The Contentious RfC Closer Award for your incredible work over the years in closing contentious RfCs where angels fear to tread. Yea, though you walk through the shadow valley of RfC, you have feared no evil: for thou art brave and capable. -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC) |
There. How's that? :) -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and I saw what you did here :) -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm not closing messy RfCs any more, but as promised, now that the RfC is over, I want to mention why I thought I was in a position to be a neutral closer on this one: it's because I haven't been involved with this question before, and I don't think my work with RfA was relevant to the question, because I don't think that the existence or non-existence of BARC, by itself, would have a noticeable impact on RFA votes. A substantial majority of rationales expressed in opposition at RfAs don't seem like the kind of opinions that would be swayed by slightly increasing the probability of a desysopping down the road. I don't think I had a bias problem on this one. - Dank ( push to talk) 17:47, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
I was a bit surprised to see your comment here, and I'm finding it a bit confusing that you felt you were well placed to close the discussion but not in a position to participate in it. Nonetheless, I respect your decision not to express your opinions. Risker ( talk) 17:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi Dank, hope you are well. I'd be happy to volunteer to help you prepare TFAs for the main page. (I saw your notice last month and have been meaning to get back to you ever since; your second notice today reminded me.) I still have WP:TFA/R on my watchlist from my own TFAs but I really should return to once again help support the nominated candidates. Other than that, how best can I help you? Best, Prhartcom ( talk) 18:43, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Dan: in case you haven't noticed, the TFA for 31 August has changed to Carrow Road (see my talk for discussion). A blurb is needed. Brianboulton ( talk) 16:35, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello, Dank! I've condensed the text and posted beneath the original here. I hope this is what you had in mind. Kind regards, Tim riley talk 18:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi Dan, pinging you beaceuse Brian is off for a day or two; but have a rather troublesom reqest - want to cancel the scheduling of Madonna in the Church on September 8, in favour of suggesting Witches' Sabbath (The Great He-Goat) for October 31st - Halloween. I realise that I'm going back on my word and didnt speak up soon after Brians's - very fair- comment at the nom about the vol of art articles going through at the moment. Pinging van Eyck co-noms Victoriaearle & Johnbod with aoplogies, and User:Iridescent because she is VA, wise, tall and guidant. Victoria, I apologies to you espically :( Ceoil ( talk)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | → | Archive 50 |
Hey Dank. I nominated the article Dave Gallaher at WP:FAC about ten days ago but haven't yet had a single comment (other than an image review). You did comment at the peer review (archived here), so I was hoping that if you had any time you'd mind commenting at the FAC nomination page ( Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dave Gallaher/archive1). Your help at the PR was great, and I'd appreciate any further feedback (however brief) that you'd care to give. -- Shudde talk 08:44, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
If you have time, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the legacy section of the Russian battleship Potemkin. I've added a bunch of new material in the section and I need some fresh eyes on how it all flows and fits together. I've added three nifty quotes on how the battleship was, at least partially, the hero of the movie, but I would strongly expect that that's two too many. So if you could give your opinions on which one needs to be kept and how the whole thing fits together, I'd be grateful.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 21:26, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
We hope The Wikipedia Library has been a useful resource for your work. TWL is expanding rapidly and we need your help!
With only a couple hours per week, you can make a big difference for sharing knowledge. Please sign up and help us in one of these ways:
Send on behalf of
The Wikipedia Library using
MediaWiki message delivery (
talk)
04:31, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
The WikiChevrons | ||
For completing 29 reviews during April–June 2015, on behalf of the Wikiproject Military History coordinators, I hereby award you the WikiChevrons. Thanks/cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 09:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC) |
I have altered this, after it was pointed out that my original choice was the third California highway this year. I have changed all the consequential pages, but not the protection, if any. Brianboulton ( talk) 09:12, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I have received a request to change the TFA scheduled for 23 July, as the main editor had left a note on the article's talkpage requesting that this not be scheduled until October 2017. As I was at fault in not seeing the note, I will defer to his request. Again I'll do the consequential changes. The issue concerning 24 July will not be resolved before Sunday. Brianboulton ( talk) 18:20, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello Dank,
Not sure if you have gotten any more time on your hands since the Battle of Malvern Hill article was at FA, but it's now at ACR with WikiProject Military History. I'm going to try and take it to FAC again, perhaps in the coming weeks, and I was wondering if you could do a copyedit to the article. Cheers, -- ceradon ( talk • contribs) 19:08, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Sorry Dank, that's simply crap English, it needs fixing. And modifying a redirect while I'm at it is just fine. There's nothing at ERRORS that suggests these shouldn't be fixed. By all means let me know what you find so problematic with changing "did close to" to "caused", and why fixing an obvious redirect is an issue. Thanks. The Rambling Man ( talk) 20:27, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Would a third opinion help or hurt? Although this site objects to "do damage", the phrase is used by several authorities who don't call it "heinous", "appalling", "horrendous", or any other pejorative. Wiktionary:damage, for instance, uses the example "The storm did a lot of damage to the area." Anyway, the phrase was "did close to a billion dollars in damage", which can't be replaced with just "damaged". Google Books shows far more hits for "do/cause a million dollars' worth of damage" than for "do/cause a million dollars in damage", so if anything needed to be fixed, it was doing or causing dollars, as if the storm were the U.S. Mint.
As for fixing redirects versus WP:NOTBROKEN, I no longer raise this issue unless someone else does it first, because it causes an amazing amount of anger. But if you don't like a guideline, you should really be trying to fix it, not ignore it, no matter how many other Main Page editors have the same attitude. The problem will keep coming back until the contradiction is resolved one way or the other: either stop "fixing" redirects, or fix the guideline. Long ago I wrote User:Art LaPella/Because the guideline says so. Art LaPella ( talk) 00:56, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
[Copied from WP:ERRORS, since that page isn't archived]:
I just undid a couple of edits that look like they were meant as copyediting. I want to be clear that I don't insist that the writer(s) of the article express things just the way I would; I try to give writers a lot of latitude. I'm pushing back against copyediting in cases where the sources I use disagree with those choices, because bad copyediting can feel burdensome to writers. I'm also pushing back against making undiscussed changes on TFA articles on the day they're on the Main Page; I'm much less likely to revert, and more likely to be broad-minded, if the changes are made when the page isn't protected. So, give me a minute and I'll give you some references to support my choices. - Dank ( push to talk) 20:30, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
[end of text copied from ERRORS]
Footnote: Brian and Chris would prefer not to pursue any of this for the moment, and I have no problem with that. - Dank ( push to talk) 12:52, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm shortly going to launch an RfC. If possible I would prefer it to be a teamwork. I would very much value your input. Would you please review the first very basic draft and let me have your thoughts on the talk page. Thanks. -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 16:45, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Hi Dank. I note you had some health problems earlier this month; I hope you're feeling better now, though if not, maybe one of your talk page stalkers can help me :). I nominated Tank Girl (film) for FAC a month ago ( see here). One of my two major reviewers says the article needs a copy edit before he can support it. If you could have a look at the article, I would very much appreciate it. Cheers. Freikorp ( talk) 18:06, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Hey, thanks! I checked out the article, updating it for something that came out earlier this year. I suppose it'll be the opposite problem as Brenda 60, too much info in lead :P Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 22:51, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Regarding your request: I thought I would reply in what is hopefully a quieter place. Yes, I think many people looking for a new process to remove administrative privileges from an editor are viewing this as something that enables changes to the Request for Adminship process. Personally, I don't think that this necessarily disqualifies someone who has been involved in past discussions regarding RfA from evaluating consensus in this one. Community members who have shown interest in understanding, interpreting, and developing policies and procedures bring a degree of engagement to the closure process that can be effective. For better or worse, though, there are some editors who value a lack of any linkage to the area of discussion as being a stronger consideration over other qualifications.
On a digression: the demands on volunteers evaluating consensus seem to have crept up steadily. Calls for open deliberation just result in the community continuing the conversation after it has supposedly closed, and a lot of back-seat driving taking place. Coupling this with a desire for fixed deadlines, I feel it will be increasingly difficult to find anyone to close contentious discussions. Evaluators need space to bounce ideas off each other without having to continually respond to a dozen people questioning each nuance. There can be checkpoints where feedback is solicited, but if the group is required to justify each sentence it utters, the process bogs down. If the community wants to have persons with tested track records in interpreting discussions in an even-handed manner, perhaps it should be open to using professional mediators, who are evaluated on this basis and can only continue to be employed if they indeed demonstrate this ability. isaacl ( talk) 01:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Hey Dank. Our discussion on the talk page of the BARC proposal, combined with the Liz RfA, and then combined with seeing a user's page today with badge icons that I've seen before on other user pages got me thinking. Well, my first thought is that as a copy editor I'm sure you want to rip my fingers off for that run-on sentence :) I digress...
The user page I saw was this one. Nothing extraordinary, but like many user pages it has badge icons for work done on the project. In this case, for DYK noms and GA status stuff. Liz has done a lot of non-article work, and she's been criticized for a lack of content creation. I noted in my comments on her RfA that a considerable amount of work occurs outside of article creation that is pivotal to the functioning of this project. Seeing your comments about being a closer on the BARC proposal, I sensed you felt you were criticized, put down, what have you; a negative feeling.
Those three disparate facts came together in my brain today and it dawned on me that we do no have badge icons (that I'm aware of) for work outside of mainspace. Well, we do have them for various user rights. But, we don't have them for work. For people that like badge icons, that seems wrong to me. We should give credit where credit is due. To that end, I created File:Symbol rfc.gif, which can be used as a badge icon to highlight closure of RfCs. (note: it's in gif format rather than svg; I didn't bother putting it into Illustrator to get an svg out of it)
You deserve credit for the contentious RfCs you have closed over the years. That sort of thing is lost in history for everyone. Nobody really knows, unless they happen to be well aware of your excellent work in this arena. So, there you go. Enjoy! -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:12, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
The Contentious RfC Closer Award | ||
To you Dank, I award the The Contentious RfC Closer Award for your incredible work over the years in closing contentious RfCs where angels fear to tread. Yea, though you walk through the shadow valley of RfC, you have feared no evil: for thou art brave and capable. -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC) |
There. How's that? :) -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and I saw what you did here :) -- Hammersoft ( talk) 14:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm not closing messy RfCs any more, but as promised, now that the RfC is over, I want to mention why I thought I was in a position to be a neutral closer on this one: it's because I haven't been involved with this question before, and I don't think my work with RfA was relevant to the question, because I don't think that the existence or non-existence of BARC, by itself, would have a noticeable impact on RFA votes. A substantial majority of rationales expressed in opposition at RfAs don't seem like the kind of opinions that would be swayed by slightly increasing the probability of a desysopping down the road. I don't think I had a bias problem on this one. - Dank ( push to talk) 17:47, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
I was a bit surprised to see your comment here, and I'm finding it a bit confusing that you felt you were well placed to close the discussion but not in a position to participate in it. Nonetheless, I respect your decision not to express your opinions. Risker ( talk) 17:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi Dank, hope you are well. I'd be happy to volunteer to help you prepare TFAs for the main page. (I saw your notice last month and have been meaning to get back to you ever since; your second notice today reminded me.) I still have WP:TFA/R on my watchlist from my own TFAs but I really should return to once again help support the nominated candidates. Other than that, how best can I help you? Best, Prhartcom ( talk) 18:43, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Dan: in case you haven't noticed, the TFA for 31 August has changed to Carrow Road (see my talk for discussion). A blurb is needed. Brianboulton ( talk) 16:35, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello, Dank! I've condensed the text and posted beneath the original here. I hope this is what you had in mind. Kind regards, Tim riley talk 18:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi Dan, pinging you beaceuse Brian is off for a day or two; but have a rather troublesom reqest - want to cancel the scheduling of Madonna in the Church on September 8, in favour of suggesting Witches' Sabbath (The Great He-Goat) for October 31st - Halloween. I realise that I'm going back on my word and didnt speak up soon after Brians's - very fair- comment at the nom about the vol of art articles going through at the moment. Pinging van Eyck co-noms Victoriaearle & Johnbod with aoplogies, and User:Iridescent because she is VA, wise, tall and guidant. Victoria, I apologies to you espically :( Ceoil ( talk)