Your submission at Articles for creation
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you are more than welcome to continue submitting work to Articles for Creation.
- If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
- If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
Cyan Gardevoir (used EDIT!) 06:18, 8 October 2012 (UTC)- Hi, about your questions:
- It's usually best to discuss article-related question on the talk page of the article itself ( Talk:Heather Marsh), so that other users who are interested in the article can chip in as well, or look the discussion up later. I already left a comment there earlier.
- Weblinks in citations should point to a page where one can find the corresponding information directly, without further clicking. Facebook offers a permalink for each particular update (can be found near the top of the message, e.g. "September 1"), I guess you may have meant this one? Be aware though that it would still be considered a primary source, which are not always suitable (see WP:PRIMARY), and people may question whether this Facebook message consisted a sufficiently important event in her life to be mentioned in her biography.
- Regarding secondary sources and notability, see my comment on the article talk page. WP:GNG has some explanations about when secondary sources can help to establish notability ("'Significant coverage' means that sources address the subject directly in detail ..."). Most useful would be independent sources with information about her as a person, rather than about WikiLeaks Central or Global Square (such sources might be more useful in an article about WikiLeaks Central or Global Square, respectively).
- Also, if you don't mind me asking, are you in any way personally connected or affiliated with Heather Marsh? If that should be the case, have a look at the advice on this page.
- Regards, HaeB ( talk) 09:24, 8 October 2012 (UT
Hi and thanks :)
Ok.
Facebook - ok, that was the most permanent link I could find to stuff that was more followed up on Twitter ... include or no?
Hmm. not sure I understand given that she was the key person in Wikileaks Central, Global Square, Occupy etc ... compared to for instance these she must be more notable? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Noel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadim_Kobeissi and many others who have wikipedia pages just for participating in orgs she created? As a person ... not sure how personal = notable ... plus is a privacy advocate and wikileaks so not much personal out there, just many orgs involved with.
I am trying to fill out the bios that need to be linked to CryptoParty but could probably reach her on twitter. Will ask around for better links whereever you say tomorrow. (This is one linked to cryptoparty I used as a model - if this is notable then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinn_norton)
Re political theory stuff, she was at the Berlin Biennale talking about that for two months this year and there is a lot of reference on Occupy-ish places, and some random radio audios but not sure that any would be considered link worthy: http://www.google.ca/search?aq=f&ix=seb&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=berlin+biennale#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=berlin+biennale+heather+marsh&oq=berlin+biennale+heather+marsh&gs_l=serp.3..33i38.14220.18437.0.19656.18.17.1.0.0.1.289.1946.6j9j2.17.0.les%3Bcesh..1.0...1.1.kbo6R8RhHSU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=9c11953bcbc45462&biw=1328&bih=645&ix=seb Global Square is still very active in Github and irc.
Thanks very much again, I appreciate all your time.
- Hi, thanks for your explanations and for the work you have put into this article! I would like to be of more help, but unfortunately I currently don't have the time to check out these references. But in general I would recommend to try to look for coverage in "established" news media (books or academic papers would be better, but may not be available from what you say), and in different contexts (cf. WP:BLP1E). Perhaps the material is better suited to support an article WikiLeaks Central, which could then mention Marsh and other contributors?
- "compared to for instance these she must be more notable? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Noel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadim_Kobeissi and many others who have wikipedia pages just for participating in orgs she created?" - well, first note that Wikipedia is never finished and that at any given moment, there may be articles with quality or notability problems that have not been addressed yet (cf. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS). But also, it seems that those two have been involved in other notable endaveaurs as well. And the article Nadim Kobeissi cites this reference, which is exactly the kind of significant coverage in independent reliable sources that we are looking for. It is about the person (i.e. the subject of the Wikipedia article) rather than about a project they are involved in, and it does include biographical information like age. If we can find similar media coverage of Heather Marsh, that would be very useful to remove the notability concerns.
- Regards, HaeB ( talk) 05:56, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
So these articles (Sydney Morning Herald and BBC that I posted in the other chat) are not ok? They are pretty about her I think?
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/building-on-wikileaks-20111028-1mo38.html
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/pods/pods_20120221-0400a.mp3 (at 6.30) Or the CryptoParty international message?
http://soundcloud.com/cryptoparty
Sorry, not trying to be lazy but not a Wikipedia editor either and would like to tick a box that says I created an article that has no warning boxes on top :-D Would these two work? I have found some radio stuff of various quality too, and the Berlin Biennale must have stuff about her besides in Occupy-ish places but in other languages. What do I need to get this article to a no-warning-boxes state?
I am pretty certain she is of note, since she was asked to do an international message of support, but what is needed to prove? I can't find stuff like age, but she was the founder of some major groups and many of them so I think more important than Wikileaks Central (since she is also Global Square, first known mention of Occupy, prominent early person in day of rages, Hope Riders, anon etc). I looked to do a Wikileaks Central article, but since most well known media don't directly quote them as a source that would be harder (even when they do quote them they say Wikileaks not Wikileaks Central). And it would leave out all the rest.
Sorry to bug, but Sydney Morning Herald for Wikileaks Central and Occupy, BBC for Global Square and political philosophy to technology, plus CryptoParty ... if I got a Berlin Biennale reference too would this work? Does that have to be der Speigel or would a random radio or blog do?
Regarding Quinn Norton ... there is an age but no reference, so I could make one up ... actually that is true for all of these? or Pedro Noel ... all of those seem to be orgs affiliated with him being a wl central writer ... Nadim Kobeissi 'early supporter' of orgs as opposed to created, references his own tweets and blogs ... Moxie Marlinspike pseudonym, no name much less birthdate etc etc Smári McCarthy also no personal, references his tweet stream etc. Jillian York references own work and good reads profile?! Christopher Soghoian Incredibly little of this is referenced. Dan Kaminsky no personal information, zip. Matthew Green absolutely no references, no personal, one paragraph. Dima Khatib one of many many journalists self referencing all the way. And on and on, not to beat this drum but because ... I thought I did much better :(
So I understand wikipedia is a work in progress but having trouble understanding the 'personal coverage' part in context. I have interviews with her and articles about her, both in major outlets?
Your submission at Articles for creation
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you are more than welcome to continue submitting work to Articles for Creation.
- If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
- If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
Cyan Gardevoir (used EDIT!) 06:18, 8 October 2012 (UTC)- Hi, about your questions:
- It's usually best to discuss article-related question on the talk page of the article itself ( Talk:Heather Marsh), so that other users who are interested in the article can chip in as well, or look the discussion up later. I already left a comment there earlier.
- Weblinks in citations should point to a page where one can find the corresponding information directly, without further clicking. Facebook offers a permalink for each particular update (can be found near the top of the message, e.g. "September 1"), I guess you may have meant this one? Be aware though that it would still be considered a primary source, which are not always suitable (see WP:PRIMARY), and people may question whether this Facebook message consisted a sufficiently important event in her life to be mentioned in her biography.
- Regarding secondary sources and notability, see my comment on the article talk page. WP:GNG has some explanations about when secondary sources can help to establish notability ("'Significant coverage' means that sources address the subject directly in detail ..."). Most useful would be independent sources with information about her as a person, rather than about WikiLeaks Central or Global Square (such sources might be more useful in an article about WikiLeaks Central or Global Square, respectively).
- Also, if you don't mind me asking, are you in any way personally connected or affiliated with Heather Marsh? If that should be the case, have a look at the advice on this page.
- Regards, HaeB ( talk) 09:24, 8 October 2012 (UT
Hi and thanks :)
Ok.
Facebook - ok, that was the most permanent link I could find to stuff that was more followed up on Twitter ... include or no?
Hmm. not sure I understand given that she was the key person in Wikileaks Central, Global Square, Occupy etc ... compared to for instance these she must be more notable? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Noel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadim_Kobeissi and many others who have wikipedia pages just for participating in orgs she created? As a person ... not sure how personal = notable ... plus is a privacy advocate and wikileaks so not much personal out there, just many orgs involved with.
I am trying to fill out the bios that need to be linked to CryptoParty but could probably reach her on twitter. Will ask around for better links whereever you say tomorrow. (This is one linked to cryptoparty I used as a model - if this is notable then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinn_norton)
Re political theory stuff, she was at the Berlin Biennale talking about that for two months this year and there is a lot of reference on Occupy-ish places, and some random radio audios but not sure that any would be considered link worthy: http://www.google.ca/search?aq=f&ix=seb&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=berlin+biennale#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=berlin+biennale+heather+marsh&oq=berlin+biennale+heather+marsh&gs_l=serp.3..33i38.14220.18437.0.19656.18.17.1.0.0.1.289.1946.6j9j2.17.0.les%3Bcesh..1.0...1.1.kbo6R8RhHSU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=9c11953bcbc45462&biw=1328&bih=645&ix=seb Global Square is still very active in Github and irc.
Thanks very much again, I appreciate all your time.
- Hi, thanks for your explanations and for the work you have put into this article! I would like to be of more help, but unfortunately I currently don't have the time to check out these references. But in general I would recommend to try to look for coverage in "established" news media (books or academic papers would be better, but may not be available from what you say), and in different contexts (cf. WP:BLP1E). Perhaps the material is better suited to support an article WikiLeaks Central, which could then mention Marsh and other contributors?
- "compared to for instance these she must be more notable? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Noel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadim_Kobeissi and many others who have wikipedia pages just for participating in orgs she created?" - well, first note that Wikipedia is never finished and that at any given moment, there may be articles with quality or notability problems that have not been addressed yet (cf. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS). But also, it seems that those two have been involved in other notable endaveaurs as well. And the article Nadim Kobeissi cites this reference, which is exactly the kind of significant coverage in independent reliable sources that we are looking for. It is about the person (i.e. the subject of the Wikipedia article) rather than about a project they are involved in, and it does include biographical information like age. If we can find similar media coverage of Heather Marsh, that would be very useful to remove the notability concerns.
- Regards, HaeB ( talk) 05:56, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
So these articles (Sydney Morning Herald and BBC that I posted in the other chat) are not ok? They are pretty about her I think?
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/building-on-wikileaks-20111028-1mo38.html
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/pods/pods_20120221-0400a.mp3 (at 6.30) Or the CryptoParty international message?
http://soundcloud.com/cryptoparty
Sorry, not trying to be lazy but not a Wikipedia editor either and would like to tick a box that says I created an article that has no warning boxes on top :-D Would these two work? I have found some radio stuff of various quality too, and the Berlin Biennale must have stuff about her besides in Occupy-ish places but in other languages. What do I need to get this article to a no-warning-boxes state?
I am pretty certain she is of note, since she was asked to do an international message of support, but what is needed to prove? I can't find stuff like age, but she was the founder of some major groups and many of them so I think more important than Wikileaks Central (since she is also Global Square, first known mention of Occupy, prominent early person in day of rages, Hope Riders, anon etc). I looked to do a Wikileaks Central article, but since most well known media don't directly quote them as a source that would be harder (even when they do quote them they say Wikileaks not Wikileaks Central). And it would leave out all the rest.
Sorry to bug, but Sydney Morning Herald for Wikileaks Central and Occupy, BBC for Global Square and political philosophy to technology, plus CryptoParty ... if I got a Berlin Biennale reference too would this work? Does that have to be der Speigel or would a random radio or blog do?
Regarding Quinn Norton ... there is an age but no reference, so I could make one up ... actually that is true for all of these? or Pedro Noel ... all of those seem to be orgs affiliated with him being a wl central writer ... Nadim Kobeissi 'early supporter' of orgs as opposed to created, references his own tweets and blogs ... Moxie Marlinspike pseudonym, no name much less birthdate etc etc Smári McCarthy also no personal, references his tweet stream etc. Jillian York references own work and good reads profile?! Christopher Soghoian Incredibly little of this is referenced. Dan Kaminsky no personal information, zip. Matthew Green absolutely no references, no personal, one paragraph. Dima Khatib one of many many journalists self referencing all the way. And on and on, not to beat this drum but because ... I thought I did much better :(
So I understand wikipedia is a work in progress but having trouble understanding the 'personal coverage' part in context. I have interviews with her and articles about her, both in major outlets?