Could you please stop with changing all kind of links from FCSB to Steaua? There has been a lot of discussion about how to solve the mess created around Steaua. And now you are steam rolling every thing back, creating loads of links to disambiguation pages in the process. Please take a look at
Talk:FC Steaua București records dispute and participate in the discussion there. I know the situation is complex and confusing, with courts ruling this way and then that way. Wikipedia works on reliable sources, not on emotions. So please, take part in the discussion. The Bannertalk10:46, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
You have to understand that the current situation misinforms and is very confusing to the reader. Most of the links I've changed were pre-1998 (UEFA cups, players, etc.), and from this point of view things are pretty clear. Both court rulings and common sense dictate that a team that was created this century can't be the one who won the ECC in 1986. More so, players from that era never played for FC FCSB, so it is factually wrong to have them linked to that team.
In my opinion, I suggest that there should be 4 distinct articles.
1. CSA Steaua Bucuresti, football section of the same multi-sport club, and have everything from 1947 to 1998 linked to it.
2. AFC Steaua, non-profit association, distinct entity that had the right to use the "Steaua" brand. Links from 1998-2003
3. FC Steaua, club created in 2003 that illegally used the brand. Links from 2003-2017
I understand your concern and that the situation is really confusing. That is why I pointed you at the other discussion and asked you to take part in the discussion there. We had a lot of problem editors in this field and hope you are not one of them. So please, join the discussion there. The Bannertalk13:12, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Regarding club 3 "FC Steaua". As far as I know, they were stripped of the right to use that brand in 2017. Before that court case, they used the brand legally. Unless you have sources that even before the court case, the name was declared illegal. The Bannertalk19:17, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
No, they never had the right use the brand. I don't really understand what you are trying to ask of me. These court cases started around
2011, so there weren't many press articles because the documents were not accessible. However, this does not make the FC Steaua brand ordeal legal. The final ruling of a court case can be applied retroactively.
It is important to note that
CSA Steaua Bucuresti is a multi-sport club that was founded on June 7th, 1947. The club started with eight sports departments, including
football. In the year 1998, the club ceased its football activity and a non-profit association named
AFC Steaua took its place in the first division. This association had the right to use the “Steaua” name and brand, but never owned them. During the
2002-2003 season,
AFC Steaua ceased its football activity and was replaced by a new team called FC Steaua (
official answer from the Ministry of Sport about the foundation year). However, the newly created entity broke every rule of the
Romanian Football Federation and had no right to use the “Steaua” name or brand. In 2004, FC Steaua
formally requested to use the name and brand from
CSA Steaua Bucuresti, but the request was declined. Despite this, the team continued to use the fraudulent name.
Since 2014, there have been three major court rulings:
- Brand, definitive. In favor of
CSA Steaua and barred FC Steaua from using the brand;
- Name, definitive. In favor of
CSA Steaua and barred FC Steaua from using the name, resulting in the club being renamed
Fotbal Club Fcsb;
- Honours/Records, partially definitive.
CSA Steaua is the owner of the period from 1947-1998 and
AFC Steaua ( defunct ) is the owner of the period from 1998-2003. Both are final and can’t be challenged. The reason this decision is only partially definitive is because we are still waiting for a final decision on the period from 2003 to 2017.
FC Fcsb requested it, but the court did not grant it to them. [source 1][source 2][source 3]
Other recent and somewhat relevant information:
- In 2020, some of
FC Fcsb's supporters organized into an association that participated in the Honours/Records dispute. After the
Court of Appeal issued its decision in October, one of the association's founders, who is a lawyer himself, renounced his initial position and withdrew from the dispute. [source]
- Last August,
FC Fcsb played three games at
Steaua Stadium, but they had to sign a contract that included a condition to renounce and withdraw all claims that they are "Steaua" from their website, or their employees statements. [source]
Given the situation, it would be reasonable for there to be a consensus that the 1947-1998 articles are full of inaccuracies and that the links referring to Steaua Bucharest should redirect to...
Steaua Bucharest.
Currently, there is a clear bias towards
FC Fcsb as there are still many redirects that point to their article. Additionally, there is misinformation regarding the honors and founding date of
FC Fcsb. How can two different teams have the same founding date and records? The current situation is clearly confusing the reader.
Most of the links I've changed were pre-1998 (UEFA cups, players, etc.), and from this point of view things are pretty clear. Both court rulings and common sense dictate that a team that was created this century can't be the one who won the
ECC in 1986. More so, players from that era never played for
FC Fcsb, so it is factually wrong to have them linked to that team.
In my opinion, I suggest that there should be 4 distinct articles.
4.
FC Fcsb, 2017-present. ( At the moment, according to the
Bucharest Court of Appeal,
FC Fcsb doesn't even own the period between 2003-2017. So, they have only one
cup. )
Could you please stop with changing all kind of links from FCSB to Steaua? There has been a lot of discussion about how to solve the mess created around Steaua. And now you are steam rolling every thing back, creating loads of links to disambiguation pages in the process. Please take a look at
Talk:FC Steaua București records dispute and participate in the discussion there. I know the situation is complex and confusing, with courts ruling this way and then that way. Wikipedia works on reliable sources, not on emotions. So please, take part in the discussion. The Bannertalk10:46, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
You have to understand that the current situation misinforms and is very confusing to the reader. Most of the links I've changed were pre-1998 (UEFA cups, players, etc.), and from this point of view things are pretty clear. Both court rulings and common sense dictate that a team that was created this century can't be the one who won the ECC in 1986. More so, players from that era never played for FC FCSB, so it is factually wrong to have them linked to that team.
In my opinion, I suggest that there should be 4 distinct articles.
1. CSA Steaua Bucuresti, football section of the same multi-sport club, and have everything from 1947 to 1998 linked to it.
2. AFC Steaua, non-profit association, distinct entity that had the right to use the "Steaua" brand. Links from 1998-2003
3. FC Steaua, club created in 2003 that illegally used the brand. Links from 2003-2017
I understand your concern and that the situation is really confusing. That is why I pointed you at the other discussion and asked you to take part in the discussion there. We had a lot of problem editors in this field and hope you are not one of them. So please, join the discussion there. The Bannertalk13:12, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Regarding club 3 "FC Steaua". As far as I know, they were stripped of the right to use that brand in 2017. Before that court case, they used the brand legally. Unless you have sources that even before the court case, the name was declared illegal. The Bannertalk19:17, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
No, they never had the right use the brand. I don't really understand what you are trying to ask of me. These court cases started around
2011, so there weren't many press articles because the documents were not accessible. However, this does not make the FC Steaua brand ordeal legal. The final ruling of a court case can be applied retroactively.
It is important to note that
CSA Steaua Bucuresti is a multi-sport club that was founded on June 7th, 1947. The club started with eight sports departments, including
football. In the year 1998, the club ceased its football activity and a non-profit association named
AFC Steaua took its place in the first division. This association had the right to use the “Steaua” name and brand, but never owned them. During the
2002-2003 season,
AFC Steaua ceased its football activity and was replaced by a new team called FC Steaua (
official answer from the Ministry of Sport about the foundation year). However, the newly created entity broke every rule of the
Romanian Football Federation and had no right to use the “Steaua” name or brand. In 2004, FC Steaua
formally requested to use the name and brand from
CSA Steaua Bucuresti, but the request was declined. Despite this, the team continued to use the fraudulent name.
Since 2014, there have been three major court rulings:
- Brand, definitive. In favor of
CSA Steaua and barred FC Steaua from using the brand;
- Name, definitive. In favor of
CSA Steaua and barred FC Steaua from using the name, resulting in the club being renamed
Fotbal Club Fcsb;
- Honours/Records, partially definitive.
CSA Steaua is the owner of the period from 1947-1998 and
AFC Steaua ( defunct ) is the owner of the period from 1998-2003. Both are final and can’t be challenged. The reason this decision is only partially definitive is because we are still waiting for a final decision on the period from 2003 to 2017.
FC Fcsb requested it, but the court did not grant it to them. [source 1][source 2][source 3]
Other recent and somewhat relevant information:
- In 2020, some of
FC Fcsb's supporters organized into an association that participated in the Honours/Records dispute. After the
Court of Appeal issued its decision in October, one of the association's founders, who is a lawyer himself, renounced his initial position and withdrew from the dispute. [source]
- Last August,
FC Fcsb played three games at
Steaua Stadium, but they had to sign a contract that included a condition to renounce and withdraw all claims that they are "Steaua" from their website, or their employees statements. [source]
Given the situation, it would be reasonable for there to be a consensus that the 1947-1998 articles are full of inaccuracies and that the links referring to Steaua Bucharest should redirect to...
Steaua Bucharest.
Currently, there is a clear bias towards
FC Fcsb as there are still many redirects that point to their article. Additionally, there is misinformation regarding the honors and founding date of
FC Fcsb. How can two different teams have the same founding date and records? The current situation is clearly confusing the reader.
Most of the links I've changed were pre-1998 (UEFA cups, players, etc.), and from this point of view things are pretty clear. Both court rulings and common sense dictate that a team that was created this century can't be the one who won the
ECC in 1986. More so, players from that era never played for
FC Fcsb, so it is factually wrong to have them linked to that team.
In my opinion, I suggest that there should be 4 distinct articles.
4.
FC Fcsb, 2017-present. ( At the moment, according to the
Bucharest Court of Appeal,
FC Fcsb doesn't even own the period between 2003-2017. So, they have only one
cup. )