This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hi, after waiting 14 (and a bit) days, I’ve reopened the PR here: Wikipedia:Peer review/Oxford English Dictionary/archive2. Thanks for your help! DavidPKendal ( talk) 20:25, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I see the US has gone on their annual holiday in celebration of your birthday: I'll join them in wishing you many happy returns!. Cheers - SchroCat ( talk) 07:15, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
How kind of them, and of you for remembering! Brianboulton ( talk) 08:56, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Horatio Bottomley, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Weekly Dispatch. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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Given email issues, Brian, I thought I would bring this here. :) Would one of these work for you?
Windows close quickly, so I wanted to get your preference as quickly as possible so I can lock it in. :) Just in case, it would be really helpful if you could pick your top 3 if you have them from among those times. Thanks much! -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 15:44, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
I hope you won't be too annoyed that I've got a bit carried away/took the bit between my teeth and started compiling sections for upgrading the article. I thought I should let you know asap in case there was some danger of duplicating work: I've already worked up two sections sufficiently (without suggesting they're quite complete) to be seen by you and for you to say if they're along the right lines. They're in one of my sandboxes: one is Commission and Composition (or, as per your proposed subheading, "Creation"); the other is First cast and performance ("Premiere" in your headings).
If in fact you've already started drafting similar sections, I will defer and assume we'll work using your version as the foundation (since you elected to upgrade the article in the first place). All best, Alfietucker ( talk) 18:50, 9 July 2014 (UTC) p.s. I see you have now drafted a structure: I've amended my message above accordingly. Alfietucker ( talk) 20:28, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
I see that some overlinking and MOS errors have crept into this. All the best! -- Ssilvers ( talk) 15:28, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Bottomley is now at peer review, and any interested visitor to this page is welcome to add a comment there. Brianboulton ( talk) 18:54, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Noye's Fludde may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
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This is really regarding Noye's Fludde, but I've just discovered another link between the original Mystery plays and Britten's opera. Reading Letters from a Life, Vol V I discovered that the 1951 Festival of Britain revival of the Chester mystery plays which you mention in the "Background" section was produced by Christopher Ede (who happened to be husband of Joy Boughton, a close associate of Britten's), who subsequently directed a production of Noye's Fludde in late 1959. Given this connection, I thought it would be nice to include this production in the performance history, and also slip in mention of Ede in the "Background" section.
I found this, for example, as a possible reference, but I thought maybe Ede would feature in one of your sources (Thacker & Lewis?) you've already cited. If so - and if you think it appropriate - perhaps you could do the honours? Alfietucker ( talk) 23:05, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
Still a few more days until I'm off this rustbucket but my efforts to avoid the buffet and bingo have yielded some fruit (and I'm avoiding the fruit machines as well). Peer review is here, still some minor citing to be done at the end and possibly some images added, but those can wait for better internet access. Thanks.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 05:57, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Further to my reply on my talk page, I've done a bit more reading and experimenting, and now think - rather - that after "Premiere" we might have a section "Subsequent performances and publication", which will cover the Southwark Cathedral performance (Britten's first step to make the opera have a life beyond Aldeburgh), the vexed question of scarcity of handbells, and Britten's insistence (to his publishers in particular) on the character of the work needing a large contingent of amateur child performers, most particularly in the orchestra; and perhaps, also, the German premiere which exemplified what Britten thought was *not* what the work was about.
After that, we can then have a brief history of landmark performances "since Britten" (so to speak), using the current title "Later performance history": I'd like to include Ede's performance (or should this be under the section "Subsequent performances and publication"?), and also Jonathan Miller's Round House production - his first venture into directing opera, though I've yet to find the exact date for this. Hope that all sounds ok, though let me know your thoughts. Alfietucker ( talk) 19:29, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Did you know that today is the 80th birthday of a French composer, Philippe Capdenat, who wrote Une Carmen, with Arab-Andalusian flavour. It made me think of (and word a hook about) Carmen. We never asked our readers if they prefer a side navbox with the composer's image to an infobox with Carmen pictured. What do you think of showing them the protagonist for a day (or week, or month)? Perhaps as an identibox, well taken in L'Arianna? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 13:33, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Brian. A while ago you looked over Harry Glicken for me at a peer review. I've done a major rehaul of the prose mostly from your comments, and I was wondering if you had the time to give it a look and tell me what else needs to be corrected. I'd appreciate your help, and of course I'd love to return the favor. Thanks! ceran thor 18:52, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Alfietucker ( talk) 21:48, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
I've now dug up info on productions by Christopher Ade, Jonathan Miller, and a few other "landmarks" (such as the Canadian premiere). I've added these in a version in my sandbox, and removed John Langstaff simply because I couldn't find any information about this and thought perhaps it's not so important. Otherwise - for now - I've left the rest of what's there. I'd welcome your thoughts on what should be cut, and what (perhaps) should be expanded upon.
I'll be out the rest of today, but hope to get back to Fludde matters tomorrow. All best, Alfietucker ( talk) 11:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
How do you find this?-- Shacklewatch ( talk) 22:49, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
During the course of a somewhat torrid day, this is what I've done:
Axe duly applied, down to 99K from 115 where it was. I think it's worth you taking a look at. Glad you liked the Bizet photo, nice place to visit but wouldn't want to spend eternity there (not that you do, they are anxious to resell your grave for all but the rich and famous). It took about 20 minutes to find Benjamin's grave.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 05:01, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
As one of the original 100 JSTOR account recipients, please fill out the very short email form you received just recently in order to renew your access. Even though you signed up before with WMF, we need you to sign up again with The Wikipedia Library for privacy reasons and because your prior access expired on July 15th. We do not have your email addresses now; we just used the Special:EmailUser feature, so if you didn't receive an email just contact me directly at jorlowitzgmail.com. Thanks, and we're working as quickly as possible to get you your new access! Jake ( Ocaasi) 19:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Now we've slimmed down the table of recordings for Noye's Fludde, I can't help feeling that Aragón's is rather an odd version to include. I suppose it's nice to show that Britten's opera has sufficient currency abroad to have non-English versions recorded, but since we've already hoofed off the German version shouldn't we perhaps give this one the chop too if we're going to be selective? None of the performers seem particularly well-known outside Spain (certainly none of them have an English Wikipedia article), nor does the recording appear to have much if any official distribution outside that territory (South America, maybe?). Or am I missing something here?
btw, I've also responded to some of your points on my talk page. Good night! Alfietucker ( talk) 23:23, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
I was about to go the talk page of your "friend".
But then I remembered this quote:
“I never was in such a horrid office . . . It's not very nice to be where people are being swindled all day long, is it?”
and then I clicked the "back"-button... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.230.14.53 ( talk) 22:33, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Testing, testing, testing, testing... 2.31.182.97 ( talk) 23:54, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Sorry about the delay, fell asleep early last night.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 01:27, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Oddly, all of the above facilities are still present when I log in to my backup laptop, so it's an issue with my regular machine.
I'm not asking you how to fix these problems, but the help/advice of any passing genius who understands such things would be much appreciated. Brianboulton ( talk) 09:22, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
SchroCat, thanks indeed for your attempts to resolve this, but thus far to no avail. As I say, the problems are not present on my backup computer - it's something that appears to be specific to this particular machine - most odd. Brianboulton ( talk) 10:40, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Brian, I've submitted FGM for formal peer review; see Wikipedia:Peer review/Female genital mutilation/archive1. I wanted to let you know following on from your informal (and extremely helpful) review of it. If you're too busy, don't worry. I submitted it on the spur of the moment before I had a chance to change my mind! SlimVirgin (talk) 18:14, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Does this create OBOD? The world awaits... 2.31.182.97 ( talk) 08:54, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
First, I generally enjoyed your first draft - well done for stitching a narrative together from various commentaries. I've now fairly quickly but in some detail gone through the music section, and, as well as adding the reference for Evans, have made some changes, mostly to fix various slips which resulted in errors of fact (e.g. wrong key given for Mrs. Noye's first bit of music, or Carpenter's naive and essentially misleading/wrong observation about the Chinese temple blocks).
Just a a couple of observations on the text as it is now.
1) I cut the following sentence based on Whittall: "Musically the work has links with Britten's most recent opera, The Turn of the Screw, in particular the use of the twelve-note chromatic scale in both works, and the adaption of a theme from the earlier work in the latter." Whittall is not alone in suggesting there's use of a 12-note theme in Noye's Fludde: according to Evans, White made that observation about the passacaglia theme, though adding that since the theme has a total of 19 notes "this is perhaps not notably clinching". Evans goes on to suggest that "its moorings round C are made very secure initially by the anchoring Gs and the cadence which links its [the theme's] repetitions. the effect is of mildly chromaticized diatonic music"; Evans goes on to suggest that the theme, "not obviously congruous with the earlier melodic material, is, partly no doubt, to suggest the serpentine creeping onward of the waters but, more practically, to prepare an ambience in which Dykes's hymn, 'Eternal Father', will not appear ludicrously incongruous". Given that both White and Whittall mention the 12-note quality of the theme, perhaps we might mention it, but Evans's caveat makes a lot of sense and I think should be also included if their observation is.
It also wasn't at all clear what theme from Turn of the Screw has been adapted in Noye's Fludde. Unless this is of particular importance, I think it's safe to leave that out altogether.
2) Re. the organ music "that might indicate a flash of hostility towards the Church as an institution". This appears to be based entirely on Carpenter's surmise; against this, there's Graham Elliott, who suggests: "This artless passage is an example of Britten's gentle humour in recalling the rather heavy-handed modulatory excursions beloved of some organists in their attempts to urge a dilatory congregation into action." (We should also bear in mind that Britten did not turn his back on the church and its organ, but rather wrote yet another masterpiece, the Missa Brevis, which uses that instrument to effective and even amiable effect.) If you think we should nonetheless retain Carpenter's claim, then I think it should be as a footnote with Elliott's observation to balance it.
Otherwise, I think the section reads well on the whole. Let me know your thoughts. Alfietucker ( talk) 17:36, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
p.s. I almost forgot to mention one more niggle, and that's Kildea's phrase "as much a cantata as an opera". Taken literally, this is nonsense: but my best guess is that he's referring to the use of three congregational hymns, which are - one might argue - akin to Bach's use of chorales in his cantatas. But given that there are no self-contained solo arias, such as one might expect in a cantata, and plenty of physical action such as one does not find in a cantata, I'm rather inclined to think Kildea has been a little careless/throwaway in the phrasing of his description. If we retain this, I think we must think carefully how to justify doing so.
The point that Britten uses hymns familiar to both his child performers and their audience is made more helpfully, in my opinion, by Evans who - looking forward to the Church Parables - observes: "Whereas the church parables were to couch their most overtly spiritual sentiments in terms of...Gregorian plainchant, his children in Noye's Fludde most effortlessly recognize an act of praise as their own when couched in terms to which their conditioning has accustomed them - that is, ...universally familiar English hymnody." Alfietucker ( talk) 17:44, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
p.p.s. I've quoted passages verbatim, but of course understand that we should paraphrase in the article as appropriate. Alfietucker ( talk) 18:09, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for these excellent comments/suggestions.
Brianboulton ( talk) 19:04, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Evening Brian, I come with begging bowl once again, for another SchroCat & Cassianto special. This time it's the PR for George Formby for which I'm hoping to gather comments, complaints and constructive suggestions. If you're able to visit I'd be extremely grateful—there's no rush on this at all. Cheers – SchroCat ( talk) 22:26, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
I haven't quite got fully "matured" thoughts on the article as yet; going through it this evening, I took the opportunity to zap some typos, iron out some inconsistencies, and add one or two points which I thought worth including (e.g. a musical link between Canticle II and Noye's Fludde). There does seem to be rather a lot of footnotes, but I'm not sure yet that that's a bad thing. The main text seems to flow ok as it is, and I *think* (or rather, seem to recall) that the footnotes are illuminating (with the possible exception of the second one - Imogen Holst's recollection - since I'm now less certain she was actually referring to Orford rather than Aldeburgh Parish Church); but I will look at them again with fresh eyes tomorrow or Friday. Alfietucker ( talk) 20:54, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I have made the tweaks to the lead which you suggest, and added the Whittall book to sources. I won't be working on the article today; on the Imogen footnote, I'll look through the footnotes generally, when I go through in detail tomorrow. I have a feeling that one or two footnotes might be dispensed with. Brianboulton ( talk) 09:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
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This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hi, after waiting 14 (and a bit) days, I’ve reopened the PR here: Wikipedia:Peer review/Oxford English Dictionary/archive2. Thanks for your help! DavidPKendal ( talk) 20:25, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I see the US has gone on their annual holiday in celebration of your birthday: I'll join them in wishing you many happy returns!. Cheers - SchroCat ( talk) 07:15, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
How kind of them, and of you for remembering! Brianboulton ( talk) 08:56, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Horatio Bottomley, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Weekly Dispatch. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot ( talk) 08:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Given email issues, Brian, I thought I would bring this here. :) Would one of these work for you?
Windows close quickly, so I wanted to get your preference as quickly as possible so I can lock it in. :) Just in case, it would be really helpful if you could pick your top 3 if you have them from among those times. Thanks much! -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 15:44, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
I hope you won't be too annoyed that I've got a bit carried away/took the bit between my teeth and started compiling sections for upgrading the article. I thought I should let you know asap in case there was some danger of duplicating work: I've already worked up two sections sufficiently (without suggesting they're quite complete) to be seen by you and for you to say if they're along the right lines. They're in one of my sandboxes: one is Commission and Composition (or, as per your proposed subheading, "Creation"); the other is First cast and performance ("Premiere" in your headings).
If in fact you've already started drafting similar sections, I will defer and assume we'll work using your version as the foundation (since you elected to upgrade the article in the first place). All best, Alfietucker ( talk) 18:50, 9 July 2014 (UTC) p.s. I see you have now drafted a structure: I've amended my message above accordingly. Alfietucker ( talk) 20:28, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
I see that some overlinking and MOS errors have crept into this. All the best! -- Ssilvers ( talk) 15:28, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Bottomley is now at peer review, and any interested visitor to this page is welcome to add a comment there. Brianboulton ( talk) 18:54, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Noye's Fludde may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
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This is really regarding Noye's Fludde, but I've just discovered another link between the original Mystery plays and Britten's opera. Reading Letters from a Life, Vol V I discovered that the 1951 Festival of Britain revival of the Chester mystery plays which you mention in the "Background" section was produced by Christopher Ede (who happened to be husband of Joy Boughton, a close associate of Britten's), who subsequently directed a production of Noye's Fludde in late 1959. Given this connection, I thought it would be nice to include this production in the performance history, and also slip in mention of Ede in the "Background" section.
I found this, for example, as a possible reference, but I thought maybe Ede would feature in one of your sources (Thacker & Lewis?) you've already cited. If so - and if you think it appropriate - perhaps you could do the honours? Alfietucker ( talk) 23:05, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
Still a few more days until I'm off this rustbucket but my efforts to avoid the buffet and bingo have yielded some fruit (and I'm avoiding the fruit machines as well). Peer review is here, still some minor citing to be done at the end and possibly some images added, but those can wait for better internet access. Thanks.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 05:57, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Further to my reply on my talk page, I've done a bit more reading and experimenting, and now think - rather - that after "Premiere" we might have a section "Subsequent performances and publication", which will cover the Southwark Cathedral performance (Britten's first step to make the opera have a life beyond Aldeburgh), the vexed question of scarcity of handbells, and Britten's insistence (to his publishers in particular) on the character of the work needing a large contingent of amateur child performers, most particularly in the orchestra; and perhaps, also, the German premiere which exemplified what Britten thought was *not* what the work was about.
After that, we can then have a brief history of landmark performances "since Britten" (so to speak), using the current title "Later performance history": I'd like to include Ede's performance (or should this be under the section "Subsequent performances and publication"?), and also Jonathan Miller's Round House production - his first venture into directing opera, though I've yet to find the exact date for this. Hope that all sounds ok, though let me know your thoughts. Alfietucker ( talk) 19:29, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Did you know that today is the 80th birthday of a French composer, Philippe Capdenat, who wrote Une Carmen, with Arab-Andalusian flavour. It made me think of (and word a hook about) Carmen. We never asked our readers if they prefer a side navbox with the composer's image to an infobox with Carmen pictured. What do you think of showing them the protagonist for a day (or week, or month)? Perhaps as an identibox, well taken in L'Arianna? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 13:33, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Brian. A while ago you looked over Harry Glicken for me at a peer review. I've done a major rehaul of the prose mostly from your comments, and I was wondering if you had the time to give it a look and tell me what else needs to be corrected. I'd appreciate your help, and of course I'd love to return the favor. Thanks! ceran thor 18:52, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Alfietucker ( talk) 21:48, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
I've now dug up info on productions by Christopher Ade, Jonathan Miller, and a few other "landmarks" (such as the Canadian premiere). I've added these in a version in my sandbox, and removed John Langstaff simply because I couldn't find any information about this and thought perhaps it's not so important. Otherwise - for now - I've left the rest of what's there. I'd welcome your thoughts on what should be cut, and what (perhaps) should be expanded upon.
I'll be out the rest of today, but hope to get back to Fludde matters tomorrow. All best, Alfietucker ( talk) 11:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
How do you find this?-- Shacklewatch ( talk) 22:49, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
During the course of a somewhat torrid day, this is what I've done:
Axe duly applied, down to 99K from 115 where it was. I think it's worth you taking a look at. Glad you liked the Bizet photo, nice place to visit but wouldn't want to spend eternity there (not that you do, they are anxious to resell your grave for all but the rich and famous). It took about 20 minutes to find Benjamin's grave.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 05:01, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
As one of the original 100 JSTOR account recipients, please fill out the very short email form you received just recently in order to renew your access. Even though you signed up before with WMF, we need you to sign up again with The Wikipedia Library for privacy reasons and because your prior access expired on July 15th. We do not have your email addresses now; we just used the Special:EmailUser feature, so if you didn't receive an email just contact me directly at jorlowitzgmail.com. Thanks, and we're working as quickly as possible to get you your new access! Jake ( Ocaasi) 19:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Now we've slimmed down the table of recordings for Noye's Fludde, I can't help feeling that Aragón's is rather an odd version to include. I suppose it's nice to show that Britten's opera has sufficient currency abroad to have non-English versions recorded, but since we've already hoofed off the German version shouldn't we perhaps give this one the chop too if we're going to be selective? None of the performers seem particularly well-known outside Spain (certainly none of them have an English Wikipedia article), nor does the recording appear to have much if any official distribution outside that territory (South America, maybe?). Or am I missing something here?
btw, I've also responded to some of your points on my talk page. Good night! Alfietucker ( talk) 23:23, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
I was about to go the talk page of your "friend".
But then I remembered this quote:
“I never was in such a horrid office . . . It's not very nice to be where people are being swindled all day long, is it?”
and then I clicked the "back"-button... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.230.14.53 ( talk) 22:33, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Testing, testing, testing, testing... 2.31.182.97 ( talk) 23:54, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Sorry about the delay, fell asleep early last night.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 01:27, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Oddly, all of the above facilities are still present when I log in to my backup laptop, so it's an issue with my regular machine.
I'm not asking you how to fix these problems, but the help/advice of any passing genius who understands such things would be much appreciated. Brianboulton ( talk) 09:22, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
SchroCat, thanks indeed for your attempts to resolve this, but thus far to no avail. As I say, the problems are not present on my backup computer - it's something that appears to be specific to this particular machine - most odd. Brianboulton ( talk) 10:40, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Brian, I've submitted FGM for formal peer review; see Wikipedia:Peer review/Female genital mutilation/archive1. I wanted to let you know following on from your informal (and extremely helpful) review of it. If you're too busy, don't worry. I submitted it on the spur of the moment before I had a chance to change my mind! SlimVirgin (talk) 18:14, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Does this create OBOD? The world awaits... 2.31.182.97 ( talk) 08:54, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
First, I generally enjoyed your first draft - well done for stitching a narrative together from various commentaries. I've now fairly quickly but in some detail gone through the music section, and, as well as adding the reference for Evans, have made some changes, mostly to fix various slips which resulted in errors of fact (e.g. wrong key given for Mrs. Noye's first bit of music, or Carpenter's naive and essentially misleading/wrong observation about the Chinese temple blocks).
Just a a couple of observations on the text as it is now.
1) I cut the following sentence based on Whittall: "Musically the work has links with Britten's most recent opera, The Turn of the Screw, in particular the use of the twelve-note chromatic scale in both works, and the adaption of a theme from the earlier work in the latter." Whittall is not alone in suggesting there's use of a 12-note theme in Noye's Fludde: according to Evans, White made that observation about the passacaglia theme, though adding that since the theme has a total of 19 notes "this is perhaps not notably clinching". Evans goes on to suggest that "its moorings round C are made very secure initially by the anchoring Gs and the cadence which links its [the theme's] repetitions. the effect is of mildly chromaticized diatonic music"; Evans goes on to suggest that the theme, "not obviously congruous with the earlier melodic material, is, partly no doubt, to suggest the serpentine creeping onward of the waters but, more practically, to prepare an ambience in which Dykes's hymn, 'Eternal Father', will not appear ludicrously incongruous". Given that both White and Whittall mention the 12-note quality of the theme, perhaps we might mention it, but Evans's caveat makes a lot of sense and I think should be also included if their observation is.
It also wasn't at all clear what theme from Turn of the Screw has been adapted in Noye's Fludde. Unless this is of particular importance, I think it's safe to leave that out altogether.
2) Re. the organ music "that might indicate a flash of hostility towards the Church as an institution". This appears to be based entirely on Carpenter's surmise; against this, there's Graham Elliott, who suggests: "This artless passage is an example of Britten's gentle humour in recalling the rather heavy-handed modulatory excursions beloved of some organists in their attempts to urge a dilatory congregation into action." (We should also bear in mind that Britten did not turn his back on the church and its organ, but rather wrote yet another masterpiece, the Missa Brevis, which uses that instrument to effective and even amiable effect.) If you think we should nonetheless retain Carpenter's claim, then I think it should be as a footnote with Elliott's observation to balance it.
Otherwise, I think the section reads well on the whole. Let me know your thoughts. Alfietucker ( talk) 17:36, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
p.s. I almost forgot to mention one more niggle, and that's Kildea's phrase "as much a cantata as an opera". Taken literally, this is nonsense: but my best guess is that he's referring to the use of three congregational hymns, which are - one might argue - akin to Bach's use of chorales in his cantatas. But given that there are no self-contained solo arias, such as one might expect in a cantata, and plenty of physical action such as one does not find in a cantata, I'm rather inclined to think Kildea has been a little careless/throwaway in the phrasing of his description. If we retain this, I think we must think carefully how to justify doing so.
The point that Britten uses hymns familiar to both his child performers and their audience is made more helpfully, in my opinion, by Evans who - looking forward to the Church Parables - observes: "Whereas the church parables were to couch their most overtly spiritual sentiments in terms of...Gregorian plainchant, his children in Noye's Fludde most effortlessly recognize an act of praise as their own when couched in terms to which their conditioning has accustomed them - that is, ...universally familiar English hymnody." Alfietucker ( talk) 17:44, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
p.p.s. I've quoted passages verbatim, but of course understand that we should paraphrase in the article as appropriate. Alfietucker ( talk) 18:09, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for these excellent comments/suggestions.
Brianboulton ( talk) 19:04, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Evening Brian, I come with begging bowl once again, for another SchroCat & Cassianto special. This time it's the PR for George Formby for which I'm hoping to gather comments, complaints and constructive suggestions. If you're able to visit I'd be extremely grateful—there's no rush on this at all. Cheers – SchroCat ( talk) 22:26, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
I haven't quite got fully "matured" thoughts on the article as yet; going through it this evening, I took the opportunity to zap some typos, iron out some inconsistencies, and add one or two points which I thought worth including (e.g. a musical link between Canticle II and Noye's Fludde). There does seem to be rather a lot of footnotes, but I'm not sure yet that that's a bad thing. The main text seems to flow ok as it is, and I *think* (or rather, seem to recall) that the footnotes are illuminating (with the possible exception of the second one - Imogen Holst's recollection - since I'm now less certain she was actually referring to Orford rather than Aldeburgh Parish Church); but I will look at them again with fresh eyes tomorrow or Friday. Alfietucker ( talk) 20:54, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I have made the tweaks to the lead which you suggest, and added the Whittall book to sources. I won't be working on the article today; on the Imogen footnote, I'll look through the footnotes generally, when I go through in detail tomorrow. I have a feeling that one or two footnotes might be dispensed with. Brianboulton ( talk) 09:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Books & Bytes
Issue 7, June-July 2014
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