I have created and shared a powerpoint document with a recommended structure https://docs.google.com/a/netsells.co.uk/presentation/d/15LGtac7eHs5_ICDugabA-9FnMcKrdx9yFzC-txc4n8g/edit?usp=sharing that we can run through tomorrow. Feel free to post suggestions for changes here, so we can raise up our contributions tallies! Brancoady ( talk) 02:28, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- I am making some final changes based on a change of opinion with regards to my user page. I will send across to you Bran my final user page and contributions screenshots by 22:00 so we can get this presentation 100% complete for tomorrow morning. Cmhardi1 ( talk) 19:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I am going to begin adding this box with a snapshot of data to the right hand side of the page, including the image in this section. As Chris has pointed out during a recent discussion about this, it is proving difficult to find references for her personal information (date of birth, place of birth etc.) Is anybody working on finding sources for this key data set? Brancoady ( talk) 02:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is a decent addition. If we can get the content in each section completed (with of without credible references) this would be a good start. I'm sure with so few academic references available can we not use her own site for content and references? Cmhardi1 ( talk) 16:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I think the contents list perhaps contains links that are too long in length. For example, the co-authored work could perhaps only have the title of the work in the contents list, and detail the author and co authors in the section itself. I dont think I have ever seen a contents section appear like it does on ours anywhere else on wikipedia, so I suspect this does need some work even if not quite in the way I have suggested. Thoughts?
If you take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Eastwood - the sections are written more in paragraphs as opposed to sub headings for each one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brancoady ( talk • contribs) 23:16, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with the content links being too long. I always find it rather off putting seeing such a large box at the top of the page. Nickjhanson ( talk) 07:21, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Nick's early life section has a reference from Carolines Blog - I dont think this will be accepted as a reference directly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brancoady ( talk • contribs) 22:56, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- I believe we can take this reference out, as you don't always see references attached to information such as this. Nickjhanson ( talk) 07:22, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Given the importance of our references being credible and not from the subject I have a few additional links to some useful resources which could be used to add credibility to our article. The links have been added to the Google Doc created by Matt ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/18yEqK7ld9izJcxNUHwYI5ffh7TxMS3vY8asOAiTtzzE). I think we'll need to add more credible references to ensure the article is published (and to show we have done everything we can to create the article within the Wikipedia policies). Cmhardi1 ( talk) 23:56, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Albeit a small point for discussion we should consider which language this article will be written in: US English or UK English. Given Caroline Haythornthwaite is indeed American, and are also many of the articles written by her, this will need deciding perhaps during our meeting on Friday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmhardi1 ( talk • contribs) 02:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- There's no indication in this article draft that she's American; that should be included. Regarding language, see
WP:TIES. Which country does she have strongest ties to? --
Geniac (
talk)
03:44, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- A minor thing here - I think she may be Canadian. Also, why should we be writing the article in US English? Wikipedia is universal, and seeing as we write in UK English, surely the article should be written in that manner? Nickjhanson ( talk) 08:52, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- I feel as we are in the UK and creating the article it should be in UK English Matthew Dunne ( talk) 10:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I agree. I also think it's worth adding a sidebar, as there is a widget to indicate written language.
Scottjbroughton (
talk)
10:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- A Wikipedia editor's residence isn't relevant. Articles should be written in the English variation most closely associated with the topic of the article. So if Caroline Haythornthwaite is a Canadian living in Canada, the article should be written in Canadian English. See
WP:TIES. --
Geniac (
talk)
12:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- I've checked the Wikipedia guidelines/policy in the WP:TIES section and it seems the user Geniac has a point. Do we want this article to be written in: a) Canadian English b) UK English? Once we've decided I can make the necessary changes to the article to reflect this decision, plus it nicely ties off the language discussions for our presentation on Monday.
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
17:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- As the writers generally write in a UK English style, is it worth potentially offending Canadians by trying to write this article in a style which is unfamiliar to us, or would it be offensive not to make the changes?
Nickjhanson (
talk)
18:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Making the change to Canadian English would also mean researching Canadian English syntax, which I think is out of the scope of this project, and also something that we don't have the necessary time for
Scottjbroughton (
talk)
18:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. We can't get penalised for choosing UK English, plus we're writing this from a UK based university. UK English it is and I'll look at adding a widget/sidebar/box to indicate this is the written language of the article. Cheers all!
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
18:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would agree with the above UK based university... UK English Matthew Dunne ( talk) 22:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. We can't get penalised for choosing UK English, plus we're writing this from a UK based university. UK English it is and I'll look at adding a widget/sidebar/box to indicate this is the written language of the article. Cheers all!
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
18:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Making the change to Canadian English would also mean researching Canadian English syntax, which I think is out of the scope of this project, and also something that we don't have the necessary time for
Scottjbroughton (
talk)
18:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- As the writers generally write in a UK English style, is it worth potentially offending Canadians by trying to write this article in a style which is unfamiliar to us, or would it be offensive not to make the changes?
Nickjhanson (
talk)
18:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- I've checked the Wikipedia guidelines/policy in the WP:TIES section and it seems the user Geniac has a point. Do we want this article to be written in: a) Canadian English b) UK English? Once we've decided I can make the necessary changes to the article to reflect this decision, plus it nicely ties off the language discussions for our presentation on Monday.
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
17:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- A Wikipedia editor's residence isn't relevant. Articles should be written in the English variation most closely associated with the topic of the article. So if Caroline Haythornthwaite is a Canadian living in Canada, the article should be written in Canadian English. See
WP:TIES. --
Geniac (
talk)
12:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
With regards my previous email where I stated a comment from the Tea House regarding the strength of our references - this of course was one persons viewpoint.
I guess we need to decided whether to remove/amend sections now, or wait and see if the article is approved before making any major changes? Nickjhanson ( talk) 08:57, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- The advice given by Yunshui at
Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Reviewing a new article regarding independent sources wasn't just one person's viewpoint; that's a part of Wikipedia policy. See
WP:PRIMARY. Including information and references from secondary and tertiary sources will definitely help your article. --
Geniac (
talk)
03:23, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the input Geniac, this is something we can work on when working on the article. Matthew Dunne ( talk) 22:11, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Just a thought we might consider looking at other groups pages to see if there are any links between there work and ours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc1070 ( talk • contribs) 09:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Good idea Marc, do you want to have a look and report back here if you find any? Brancoady ( talk) 22:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- Has anyone else done this yet? I am making some final tweaks and thought this could be useful? Cmhardi1 ( talk) 19:39, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
As you'll see I have acknowledged the 'lenient' feedback received on the article page and also made some changes based on his point 2) regarding her Christian name use. If anyone agrees with any of the individual feedback points made on the page it might be worth making a change. At least it shows we're asking for and acting upon wider audience Wikipedia feedback (engagement points central). Cmhardi1 ( talk) 22:16, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think this should certainly be a point raised in the powerpoint.
Brancoady (
talk)
22:57, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- I advise taking action on all of the issues pointed out by Voceditenore. They are all excellent points that will need to be addressed in order for your article to comply with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. -- Geniac ( talk) 03:27, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I think this may be something other groups fail to do, and so we should really try and do it. There are several images on Flickr ( http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=caroline%20haythornthwaite) of Caroline, but all appear to be 'all rights reserved'. As per the recommendations on Flickr help pages I am contacting the photographers to request permission to use the images. Hopefully one of them will permit this. Brancoady ( talk) 22:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Follow up: Not the greatest image in the world, but we are free to use this image. I will go about getting it uploaded and added! http://www.flickr.com/photos/brokenthoughts/498904415/ Brancoady ( talk) 23:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- Great job! Get it uploaded as that will help the article. Cmhardi1 ( talk) 23:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- This has now been uploaded to the page! It has been added to a list for somebody to go in and double check the Licensing, but all is legit so shouldn't be any problems. Brancoady ( talk) 23:14, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Further update - image was the wrong license! It was marked for non commercial use. Starting to get some responses however to my bombarding of Flickr users for permission to use! Brancoady ( talk) 23:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Spoken with the owner of the image who has very kindly changed the license! http://www.flickr.com/photos/brokenthoughts/498904415/ Brancoady ( talk) 00:10, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Nice! Hopefully it stays this time.
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
00:43, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Image is no longer marked for deletion and has been accepted into the wikimedia archive. Happy days! Brancoady ( talk) 23:45, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Jun. 8, 2010 - Haythornthwaite Appointed Director of LIS Program at UBC
- Apr. 6, 2010 - Online Interactions Have Positive Effects for Real-Life Communities
- Aug. 13, 2009 - Haythornthwaite Returns from Brazil
- Dec. 10, 2008 - E-Learning can have Positive Effect on Classroom Learning, Scholar Says
- Jun. 18, 2007 - Associate Professor Caroline Haythornthwaite Selected as NCSA Faculty Fellow
Brancoady ( talk) 00:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Just given the article a once over and noticed the final section External links needs something doing about. Might be worth us removing this entirely before the presentation tomorrow, unless Bran you want to place the In the news section into this section? Cmhardi1 ( talk) 23:01, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I have created and shared a powerpoint document with a recommended structure https://docs.google.com/a/netsells.co.uk/presentation/d/15LGtac7eHs5_ICDugabA-9FnMcKrdx9yFzC-txc4n8g/edit?usp=sharing that we can run through tomorrow. Feel free to post suggestions for changes here, so we can raise up our contributions tallies! Brancoady ( talk) 02:28, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- I am making some final changes based on a change of opinion with regards to my user page. I will send across to you Bran my final user page and contributions screenshots by 22:00 so we can get this presentation 100% complete for tomorrow morning. Cmhardi1 ( talk) 19:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I am going to begin adding this box with a snapshot of data to the right hand side of the page, including the image in this section. As Chris has pointed out during a recent discussion about this, it is proving difficult to find references for her personal information (date of birth, place of birth etc.) Is anybody working on finding sources for this key data set? Brancoady ( talk) 02:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is a decent addition. If we can get the content in each section completed (with of without credible references) this would be a good start. I'm sure with so few academic references available can we not use her own site for content and references? Cmhardi1 ( talk) 16:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I think the contents list perhaps contains links that are too long in length. For example, the co-authored work could perhaps only have the title of the work in the contents list, and detail the author and co authors in the section itself. I dont think I have ever seen a contents section appear like it does on ours anywhere else on wikipedia, so I suspect this does need some work even if not quite in the way I have suggested. Thoughts?
If you take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Eastwood - the sections are written more in paragraphs as opposed to sub headings for each one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brancoady ( talk • contribs) 23:16, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with the content links being too long. I always find it rather off putting seeing such a large box at the top of the page. Nickjhanson ( talk) 07:21, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Nick's early life section has a reference from Carolines Blog - I dont think this will be accepted as a reference directly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brancoady ( talk • contribs) 22:56, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- I believe we can take this reference out, as you don't always see references attached to information such as this. Nickjhanson ( talk) 07:22, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Given the importance of our references being credible and not from the subject I have a few additional links to some useful resources which could be used to add credibility to our article. The links have been added to the Google Doc created by Matt ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/18yEqK7ld9izJcxNUHwYI5ffh7TxMS3vY8asOAiTtzzE). I think we'll need to add more credible references to ensure the article is published (and to show we have done everything we can to create the article within the Wikipedia policies). Cmhardi1 ( talk) 23:56, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Albeit a small point for discussion we should consider which language this article will be written in: US English or UK English. Given Caroline Haythornthwaite is indeed American, and are also many of the articles written by her, this will need deciding perhaps during our meeting on Friday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmhardi1 ( talk • contribs) 02:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- There's no indication in this article draft that she's American; that should be included. Regarding language, see
WP:TIES. Which country does she have strongest ties to? --
Geniac (
talk)
03:44, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- A minor thing here - I think she may be Canadian. Also, why should we be writing the article in US English? Wikipedia is universal, and seeing as we write in UK English, surely the article should be written in that manner? Nickjhanson ( talk) 08:52, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- I feel as we are in the UK and creating the article it should be in UK English Matthew Dunne ( talk) 10:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I agree. I also think it's worth adding a sidebar, as there is a widget to indicate written language.
Scottjbroughton (
talk)
10:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- A Wikipedia editor's residence isn't relevant. Articles should be written in the English variation most closely associated with the topic of the article. So if Caroline Haythornthwaite is a Canadian living in Canada, the article should be written in Canadian English. See
WP:TIES. --
Geniac (
talk)
12:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- I've checked the Wikipedia guidelines/policy in the WP:TIES section and it seems the user Geniac has a point. Do we want this article to be written in: a) Canadian English b) UK English? Once we've decided I can make the necessary changes to the article to reflect this decision, plus it nicely ties off the language discussions for our presentation on Monday.
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
17:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- As the writers generally write in a UK English style, is it worth potentially offending Canadians by trying to write this article in a style which is unfamiliar to us, or would it be offensive not to make the changes?
Nickjhanson (
talk)
18:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Making the change to Canadian English would also mean researching Canadian English syntax, which I think is out of the scope of this project, and also something that we don't have the necessary time for
Scottjbroughton (
talk)
18:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. We can't get penalised for choosing UK English, plus we're writing this from a UK based university. UK English it is and I'll look at adding a widget/sidebar/box to indicate this is the written language of the article. Cheers all!
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
18:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- I would agree with the above UK based university... UK English Matthew Dunne ( talk) 22:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. We can't get penalised for choosing UK English, plus we're writing this from a UK based university. UK English it is and I'll look at adding a widget/sidebar/box to indicate this is the written language of the article. Cheers all!
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
18:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Making the change to Canadian English would also mean researching Canadian English syntax, which I think is out of the scope of this project, and also something that we don't have the necessary time for
Scottjbroughton (
talk)
18:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- As the writers generally write in a UK English style, is it worth potentially offending Canadians by trying to write this article in a style which is unfamiliar to us, or would it be offensive not to make the changes?
Nickjhanson (
talk)
18:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- I've checked the Wikipedia guidelines/policy in the WP:TIES section and it seems the user Geniac has a point. Do we want this article to be written in: a) Canadian English b) UK English? Once we've decided I can make the necessary changes to the article to reflect this decision, plus it nicely ties off the language discussions for our presentation on Monday.
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
17:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- A Wikipedia editor's residence isn't relevant. Articles should be written in the English variation most closely associated with the topic of the article. So if Caroline Haythornthwaite is a Canadian living in Canada, the article should be written in Canadian English. See
WP:TIES. --
Geniac (
talk)
12:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
With regards my previous email where I stated a comment from the Tea House regarding the strength of our references - this of course was one persons viewpoint.
I guess we need to decided whether to remove/amend sections now, or wait and see if the article is approved before making any major changes? Nickjhanson ( talk) 08:57, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- The advice given by Yunshui at
Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Reviewing a new article regarding independent sources wasn't just one person's viewpoint; that's a part of Wikipedia policy. See
WP:PRIMARY. Including information and references from secondary and tertiary sources will definitely help your article. --
Geniac (
talk)
03:23, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the input Geniac, this is something we can work on when working on the article. Matthew Dunne ( talk) 22:11, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Just a thought we might consider looking at other groups pages to see if there are any links between there work and ours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc1070 ( talk • contribs) 09:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Good idea Marc, do you want to have a look and report back here if you find any? Brancoady ( talk) 22:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- Has anyone else done this yet? I am making some final tweaks and thought this could be useful? Cmhardi1 ( talk) 19:39, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
As you'll see I have acknowledged the 'lenient' feedback received on the article page and also made some changes based on his point 2) regarding her Christian name use. If anyone agrees with any of the individual feedback points made on the page it might be worth making a change. At least it shows we're asking for and acting upon wider audience Wikipedia feedback (engagement points central). Cmhardi1 ( talk) 22:16, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think this should certainly be a point raised in the powerpoint.
Brancoady (
talk)
22:57, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- I advise taking action on all of the issues pointed out by Voceditenore. They are all excellent points that will need to be addressed in order for your article to comply with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. -- Geniac ( talk) 03:27, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I think this may be something other groups fail to do, and so we should really try and do it. There are several images on Flickr ( http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=caroline%20haythornthwaite) of Caroline, but all appear to be 'all rights reserved'. As per the recommendations on Flickr help pages I am contacting the photographers to request permission to use the images. Hopefully one of them will permit this. Brancoady ( talk) 22:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Follow up: Not the greatest image in the world, but we are free to use this image. I will go about getting it uploaded and added! http://www.flickr.com/photos/brokenthoughts/498904415/ Brancoady ( talk) 23:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- Great job! Get it uploaded as that will help the article. Cmhardi1 ( talk) 23:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- This has now been uploaded to the page! It has been added to a list for somebody to go in and double check the Licensing, but all is legit so shouldn't be any problems. Brancoady ( talk) 23:14, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Further update - image was the wrong license! It was marked for non commercial use. Starting to get some responses however to my bombarding of Flickr users for permission to use! Brancoady ( talk) 23:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Spoken with the owner of the image who has very kindly changed the license! http://www.flickr.com/photos/brokenthoughts/498904415/ Brancoady ( talk) 00:10, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Nice! Hopefully it stays this time.
Cmhardi1 (
talk)
00:43, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Image is no longer marked for deletion and has been accepted into the wikimedia archive. Happy days! Brancoady ( talk) 23:45, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Jun. 8, 2010 - Haythornthwaite Appointed Director of LIS Program at UBC
- Apr. 6, 2010 - Online Interactions Have Positive Effects for Real-Life Communities
- Aug. 13, 2009 - Haythornthwaite Returns from Brazil
- Dec. 10, 2008 - E-Learning can have Positive Effect on Classroom Learning, Scholar Says
- Jun. 18, 2007 - Associate Professor Caroline Haythornthwaite Selected as NCSA Faculty Fellow
Brancoady ( talk) 00:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Just given the article a once over and noticed the final section External links needs something doing about. Might be worth us removing this entirely before the presentation tomorrow, unless Bran you want to place the In the news section into this section? Cmhardi1 ( talk) 23:01, 10 March 2013 (UTC)