Hello, I'm
Sumanuil. I wanted to let you know that one or more of
your recent contributions to
Sher Afgan Khan have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use
your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the
Teahouse or the
Help desk. Thanks. -
Sumanuil.
(talk to me) 20:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
File names and references are not "false and inaccurate translations". - Sumanuil. (talk to me) 23:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
None of that merits "correcting" file names or references. Or pestering me on my talk page for an answer I'd already given you. And I don't know whose edits you're talking about. Nobody is trying to change the spelling to "Afghan". - Sumanuil. (talk to me) 00:51, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello, Abbie444, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of your recent edits to the page Afghan did not conform to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, and may have been removed. Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations verified in reliable, reputable print or online sources or in other reliable media. Always provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. Wikipedia also has a related policy against including original research in articles.
If you are stuck and looking for help, please see the guide for citing sources or come to The Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Here are a few other good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need personal help ask me on my talk page, or . Again, welcome. Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 00:39, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Abbie444: The current article, as well as the version before you started to edit
[1] does not say anything about a connection of the subject to Afghan or Pashtun ethnicity. In fact, the only time it the word Afghan is use is in the sentence "In 1607, Qutbuddin Khan Koka was instructed to send Sher Afgan Khan to the court as he was accused of negligence and siding with Afghan rebels and transferred
". The source for this is unclear although might be "Shaikh Khubu, Qutbuddin Khan i Chishti of Fatehpur Sikri Ain-i-Akbari, by Abul Fazl" so technically it might be removable but that applies to most of the article. However whatever the truth of this statement, I see no reason to think it results from some confusion that the name Sher Afgan Khan implies Afghan ethnicity. For example, I think many people think
Bernard Lewis was unfairly biased towards the Turkish PoV about the Armenian Genocide. However I don't think many people think this is because he was of Turkish ethnicity which AFAIK he wasn't.
If you think people will incorrectly assume that the name implies the subject has Afghan ethnicity potentially we could add a footnote if we had a source for this. But frankly I see no reason to think people will suffer from this confusion, especially when we already explicitly say Sher Afgan Khan was a Turkoman and say he was given the name by Prince Salim and we even translate the name. I do not assume Jimbo Wales has Welsh ancestry although frankly I know far less about how he got that name or why he might have it. Note that the redirection from Sher Afghan Khan will stay and also a redirect from Sher Afgan Khan if we ever move the article since it seems these transliteration whatever their accuracy are common enough that the redirects make sense to guide readers who may find these other transliterations.
Speaking of the translation, it does seem you're likely correct and tiger grappler is not a good translation of the name. Unfortunately the statement may or may not be sourced. More importantly we really need a source for any translation. If you have a good reliable source for an accurate translation of the name, preferably one that actually mentions the subject of our article and not just the name, please provide it and it's likely we can update the article.
As for the transliteration of the name, this is generally at best an imprecise art especially when you consider that it can also be influenced by the language the transliteration is targeted at and it's quite common a transliteration of a personal name might persist across different languages. But anyway even if there is a standardised way to do so nowadays (whether into English or generally), it doesn't mean all names are going to be transliterated this way and especially not historic names known enough to have already common transliterations. Unfortunately most of the links in the article that I saw are dead, but I did find one that uses Afgan [2] and two that use Afghan [3] [4] although it is unlikely the second one is an RS. An internet search find a lot of modern people with the name Sher Afgan, I'm assuming likely from the same root suggesting even generally it might be a common transliteration. In any case if Sher Afgan Khan is the most common transliteration for the name of the person our article talks about, then per WP:Common name it is the name we'll generally title the article and use in it. We might add some additional clarification and alternative transliterations and again if we think subjects might be confused we would add a sentence or probably footnote to clarify the there is no connection to Afghan but that's about. We are unlikely to title the name after a uncommon transliteration if there is a common one, no matter if it's felt more correct.
As already mentioned, you really need to open a discussion at Talk:Sher Afgan Khan so these concerns will hopefully receive the attention of other editors.
Hello, I'm
Sumanuil. I wanted to let you know that one or more of
your recent contributions to
Sher Afgan Khan have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use
your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the
Teahouse or the
Help desk. Thanks. -
Sumanuil.
(talk to me) 20:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
File names and references are not "false and inaccurate translations". - Sumanuil. (talk to me) 23:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
None of that merits "correcting" file names or references. Or pestering me on my talk page for an answer I'd already given you. And I don't know whose edits you're talking about. Nobody is trying to change the spelling to "Afghan". - Sumanuil. (talk to me) 00:51, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello, Abbie444, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of your recent edits to the page Afghan did not conform to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, and may have been removed. Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations verified in reliable, reputable print or online sources or in other reliable media. Always provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. Wikipedia also has a related policy against including original research in articles.
If you are stuck and looking for help, please see the guide for citing sources or come to The Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Here are a few other good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need personal help ask me on my talk page, or . Again, welcome. Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 00:39, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Abbie444: The current article, as well as the version before you started to edit
[1] does not say anything about a connection of the subject to Afghan or Pashtun ethnicity. In fact, the only time it the word Afghan is use is in the sentence "In 1607, Qutbuddin Khan Koka was instructed to send Sher Afgan Khan to the court as he was accused of negligence and siding with Afghan rebels and transferred
". The source for this is unclear although might be "Shaikh Khubu, Qutbuddin Khan i Chishti of Fatehpur Sikri Ain-i-Akbari, by Abul Fazl" so technically it might be removable but that applies to most of the article. However whatever the truth of this statement, I see no reason to think it results from some confusion that the name Sher Afgan Khan implies Afghan ethnicity. For example, I think many people think
Bernard Lewis was unfairly biased towards the Turkish PoV about the Armenian Genocide. However I don't think many people think this is because he was of Turkish ethnicity which AFAIK he wasn't.
If you think people will incorrectly assume that the name implies the subject has Afghan ethnicity potentially we could add a footnote if we had a source for this. But frankly I see no reason to think people will suffer from this confusion, especially when we already explicitly say Sher Afgan Khan was a Turkoman and say he was given the name by Prince Salim and we even translate the name. I do not assume Jimbo Wales has Welsh ancestry although frankly I know far less about how he got that name or why he might have it. Note that the redirection from Sher Afghan Khan will stay and also a redirect from Sher Afgan Khan if we ever move the article since it seems these transliteration whatever their accuracy are common enough that the redirects make sense to guide readers who may find these other transliterations.
Speaking of the translation, it does seem you're likely correct and tiger grappler is not a good translation of the name. Unfortunately the statement may or may not be sourced. More importantly we really need a source for any translation. If you have a good reliable source for an accurate translation of the name, preferably one that actually mentions the subject of our article and not just the name, please provide it and it's likely we can update the article.
As for the transliteration of the name, this is generally at best an imprecise art especially when you consider that it can also be influenced by the language the transliteration is targeted at and it's quite common a transliteration of a personal name might persist across different languages. But anyway even if there is a standardised way to do so nowadays (whether into English or generally), it doesn't mean all names are going to be transliterated this way and especially not historic names known enough to have already common transliterations. Unfortunately most of the links in the article that I saw are dead, but I did find one that uses Afgan [2] and two that use Afghan [3] [4] although it is unlikely the second one is an RS. An internet search find a lot of modern people with the name Sher Afgan, I'm assuming likely from the same root suggesting even generally it might be a common transliteration. In any case if Sher Afgan Khan is the most common transliteration for the name of the person our article talks about, then per WP:Common name it is the name we'll generally title the article and use in it. We might add some additional clarification and alternative transliterations and again if we think subjects might be confused we would add a sentence or probably footnote to clarify the there is no connection to Afghan but that's about. We are unlikely to title the name after a uncommon transliteration if there is a common one, no matter if it's felt more correct.
As already mentioned, you really need to open a discussion at Talk:Sher Afgan Khan so these concerns will hopefully receive the attention of other editors.