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Friends --
I wanted to consult this article for various reasons, and found much useful material. But it strikes me that while it has been built up through hard work with much weighty material, much of the article was done by piece by piece additions and very much needs to be pruned and reworked. Here are some thoughts from an outsider with experience both in Wikipedia and in the scholarship of Chinese history:
Here are strong recent works which should be used. I will add them to the list of further readings:
And how can an article on this topic be taken seriously without even listing the volumes in Needham's Science and Civilisation in China?
I sympathize with the comments in earlier discussions on this page that some references are only available in university libraries, but after an article is established, it is not a good idea to maintain it with unreliable and (sometimes) unacceptable sources whose attraction is that they are available online. Sometimes we might better serve our readers to delete an article rather than maintain a misleading one. There is too much solid and useful material in this article to have its credibility weakened by the problems I am pointing to.
Again, despite my critical comments, I very much appreciate the work which a group has put into this page! ch ( talk) 03:45, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
There is very little mention of the Opium wars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.184.236 ( talk) 03:39, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
It is stated that the Boxer Rebellion "shattered the western claim that a foreign army could occupy China without opposition from the Chinese". This is biased and inaccurate. There was no claim that foreign armies could occupy China, with or without opposition. The Boxer Rebellion was an attack on foreigners and foreign embassies, and from the foreigners perspective was purely a defensive operation. 101.98.175.68 ( talk) 21:16, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Not only the Boxer incident is biased. No mention is made of the 1st Opium War (because the chinese navy lost it?). Chinese military prowess is absurdly exaggerated, to the point of rendering historical facts (Unequal Treaties, European expeditions,...) incomprehensible.
There was a discussion of these infernal devices at Torpedo Talk Page] which suggested that the usage of "torpedo" has changed and that in this period it most likely means what we would call a "mine," that is, a static device. I'm not opposed to cutting this reference, but it is in fact a good reading of two sources, not a misreading. I did correct the misreading of the author from "Bret Harte" (!). ch ( talk) 06:45, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
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Hello Wikipedians, I was researching information on the logistics aspect of ancient china. The Equipment and technology section of this article originally contained a lot of [citation needed], which was removed in 2017. Going further back, a large part of this article in its current form was written by a single author in 2009. Furthermore, the section on Chemical Weapons and Logistics cites the book 'The Genius of China: 3,000 years of science, discovery and invention' by pseudoscientific writer Robert K.G. Temple. This section was expanded on by the same user and the same source a year later. Most of the stuff citing Temple was removed in 2010 and replaced with citation needed. However, some of the 'information' attributed to Temple still remain, including most of the logistics and chemical weapons section.
tl;dr: Needs better sources in Chemical weapons and Logistics sections 76.175.1.167 ( talk) 19:07, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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|
||
This page has archives. Sections older than 20 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Friends --
I wanted to consult this article for various reasons, and found much useful material. But it strikes me that while it has been built up through hard work with much weighty material, much of the article was done by piece by piece additions and very much needs to be pruned and reworked. Here are some thoughts from an outsider with experience both in Wikipedia and in the scholarship of Chinese history:
Here are strong recent works which should be used. I will add them to the list of further readings:
And how can an article on this topic be taken seriously without even listing the volumes in Needham's Science and Civilisation in China?
I sympathize with the comments in earlier discussions on this page that some references are only available in university libraries, but after an article is established, it is not a good idea to maintain it with unreliable and (sometimes) unacceptable sources whose attraction is that they are available online. Sometimes we might better serve our readers to delete an article rather than maintain a misleading one. There is too much solid and useful material in this article to have its credibility weakened by the problems I am pointing to.
Again, despite my critical comments, I very much appreciate the work which a group has put into this page! ch ( talk) 03:45, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
There is very little mention of the Opium wars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.184.236 ( talk) 03:39, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
It is stated that the Boxer Rebellion "shattered the western claim that a foreign army could occupy China without opposition from the Chinese". This is biased and inaccurate. There was no claim that foreign armies could occupy China, with or without opposition. The Boxer Rebellion was an attack on foreigners and foreign embassies, and from the foreigners perspective was purely a defensive operation. 101.98.175.68 ( talk) 21:16, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Not only the Boxer incident is biased. No mention is made of the 1st Opium War (because the chinese navy lost it?). Chinese military prowess is absurdly exaggerated, to the point of rendering historical facts (Unequal Treaties, European expeditions,...) incomprehensible.
There was a discussion of these infernal devices at Torpedo Talk Page] which suggested that the usage of "torpedo" has changed and that in this period it most likely means what we would call a "mine," that is, a static device. I'm not opposed to cutting this reference, but it is in fact a good reading of two sources, not a misreading. I did correct the misreading of the author from "Bret Harte" (!). ch ( talk) 06:45, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Military history of China before 1911. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:56, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Military history of China before 1911. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello Wikipedians, I was researching information on the logistics aspect of ancient china. The Equipment and technology section of this article originally contained a lot of [citation needed], which was removed in 2017. Going further back, a large part of this article in its current form was written by a single author in 2009. Furthermore, the section on Chemical Weapons and Logistics cites the book 'The Genius of China: 3,000 years of science, discovery and invention' by pseudoscientific writer Robert K.G. Temple. This section was expanded on by the same user and the same source a year later. Most of the stuff citing Temple was removed in 2010 and replaced with citation needed. However, some of the 'information' attributed to Temple still remain, including most of the logistics and chemical weapons section.
tl;dr: Needs better sources in Chemical weapons and Logistics sections 76.175.1.167 ( talk) 19:07, 6 May 2023 (UTC)