Ok - so I was having a bit of a zen moment, hence the name of this particular corner of the wiki. This is the page where I'd like to reflect on my wiki experiences, talk with friends, colleagues, people who disagree with any of my ideas, or find me wanting in any way - all are welcome. |
The specific inspiration for this page has been a recommendation that I seek out a ' mentor', and I thought that as well as doing that, I'd keep the process entirely open. I've cajoled User:Lar to accept the official hat from me, but I'd actually like to be mentored by you, wiki reader - whomever you may be. Feel free to edit below, ask questions, make suggestions - It'd be great for this to be a very 'wiki' mentoring experience.
First I really must add a disclaimer here - that the GdS article is really a very hot potato - with possible serious consequences not only for the project, but for those who edit the article personally. GdS states that he is suing named editors for 50million euros in Italy - if you read the sources available you'll also note that GdS has stated that he has sued many others, some of whom report being unaware of any legal action to this day.
So it's not only a wikipedia hot potato, but a real world one too. There's a whole bunch of stuff in the wiki-past about this article - I feel that I was incredibly badly treated for no good reason - but here are two tangible suggestions to improve the article;
An update - the recent edits at the article, and talk, pages are quite interesting! - Looks like this is in pretty good hands. The sources now quoted in detail on the talk page are the reason the talk page history remains deleted, ironically enough - on a rationale of 'Don't link to sources which imply information we lack a good source for' (see here for an interesting exchange prior to one of my indefinite blocks...) - heaps of stuff to talk about here if anyone's interested, otherwise I'm just glad the article is moving in the right direction!! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 22:48, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
<- well it was a pretty odd one... hopefully the admin.s around here might be willing to take a look, and restore at least some of the history.. we'll see! (by the way my draft of the article was deleted as 'libellous content' - and from recollection it looked at least a little bit like yours! I think I've got a copy of the text somewhere, and will try and dig it out to review.... cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 04:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
<- interestingly - recent commentary at the article talk page seem to echo previous discussion - this is an example of where I think it's a bit unfair to hide previous good faith editors contributions (not withstanding my own ;-) ) - it forces folk into large circles, which I think is counter productive. I can't link to it or see it (but I don't think it'd be that hard to find!) - this may be worth a look though... Privatemusings ( talk) 12:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
this and this edit could, I guess, be seen by some as contravening my restriction - I obviously hope they're acceptable edits - this being the sort of wiki-gnoming which I most enjoy, and would like to be able to do quietly! - feedback most welcome; Privatemusings ( talk) 03:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
First page up - Michael_Brotherton.... another interesting one! - my thoughts / comments to follow - probably tomorrow.... :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 07:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Michael Brotherton was one of my earlier articles (well, expanded from a stub); obviously if I was doing it now I would have added many more references. Sam Blacketer ( talk) 12:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This one was fifth up after the above... there's some pretty obvious vandalism that needs removing - and again, I feel that a 'prod' would be the best thing for it. I'm actually loathe to remove the vandalism myself without removing material that is very clearly utterly unsubstantiated.. I'm becoming more interested in the fact that when we hit 'Save' we're in some way taking responsibility for veracity of the material.... I think we need a cultural shift fairly urgently, because articles like this simply aren't good enough. Privatemusings ( talk) 06:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
(longer discussion, slightly tangential, in the page history) - Privatemusings ( talk) 06:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
It's this sort of page that kind of annoys me not to be able to fix up... it would be so straight forward... in fact (and I think this is ok..?) - feel free to review this page which is my attempt to tidy up a bit. Privatemusings ( talk) 05:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Some more BLP editing that I'll pester someone to take a look at when I get the chance! - A bunch of maybe-just-about-ok-to-use pics from last night. Just don't talk to me about the result.. in fact don't talk to me at all - I seem to have left my voice at the ground. Privatemusings ( talk) 06:37, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
First up today (this refers to the number of times I pressed the 'random' button btw) - the sources used seem to be self-published, which may or may not be a problem - and he's not in the 'living people' category, which he probably should be. What's most interesting about this article for me is the veritable rabbit warren of genre type articles it led me down.... we have what looks like tens (if not hundreds) of articles about genres like Neurofunk, and Dark ambient - many of which refer to each other in their leads, but aren't really strongly referenced. We may need to take a look at how the musical sub-cultures which love to define genre after genre after genre translate into the best encyclopedic content. It's my first impression that there's an awful lot of chaff there.. of course I can edit freely in these areas, I just thought it was interesting! Privatemusings ( talk) 03:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thinking a bit about it, I think it'd be fitting to try and help 'Beaver' up to a decent standard - it's his last home game in a couple of weeks before he heads over to blighty (I don't think he realises how cold Bradford gets..... I reckon he'll be home in a fortnight!) - I'd plan on editing freely over there in a couple of days time to try and find ways to start improving it! Privatemusings ( talk) 06:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Dan Carter came up 7th today on Random button (well actually the Disambig page which led to him) - the third BLP (!) - first two were stub.s though (Canadian academic, and Norwegian politician - her middle name was 'bugge', poor bugger..) - quite cool really! - There's an odd claim that he was the first chap ever to buy a Vista PC, which may need sourcing or removing.. and there's a bit of clean up possible, I'd say.... I think maybe the 'green light' to do this sort of stuff might be a good idea at some point.... :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 07:45, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
How about a return back here? Really, PM, I think you'd gain the most at this point by picking one relatively low risk article and building that up with a sustained effort. That's the way most of us gained our experience. Durova Charge! 08:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
2nd article up today (after a country house) was Scott_Mulholland - it's poor and needs significant culling and should likely be deleted. I would nominate it for deletion in 5 days as unsourced if poss.... Privatemusings ( talk) 05:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
<- I've still got some concerns, jay - but an immediate extra edit would be to reword the first sentence... I think the implication of the past tense there is rather sad! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 01:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
< the cynic in me says that the info. may be too old to be chased up by now... but I hope I'm wrong! - given the tide of BLP problems that I feel we're facing - this little gem was 12th up in the Random button today.. first BLP - no way of knowing if the source is reliable, or if the article is appropriate.. there's actually a metric ton of these sort of articles which tells me that that's a whole other conversation that needs to be had - what level of sourcing is required for the statement that a woman starred in "Mrs Deep Throat"?! -- I wonder if prod=ing isn't actually the safest, most responsible option.
We don't really need to go round and round this one too much though - because I'm working on this page which will represent a bunch of pics suitable for eponymous articles, I hope! - this is actually an area I've always enjoyed contributing bits and bobs in - it'd be cool to get these guys into mainspace! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 00:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
The talk page is worth a review... (and I think my old-persona User:Purples acquits himself passably, though I'm not certain I would now take the exact same approach - all feedback about all comments there most welcome!).
The article in the third paragraph of this section states "He ran Decca Records twice" - review this section (and some sections just below it) for my rationale for why this should read "He was involved in running Decca Records".
There are also some interesting weight issues, and the article has some problems generally creeping in not-so-great directions.... following feedback on the above, I'm certainly prepared to create a subpage to demonstrate further improvements...
Once again, thanks heaps one and all for swinging by here... I'll re-factor as we go to try and keep this easily manageable, and if anyone has any questions at all, or other suggestions, please do feel free to pipe up! - cheers,
Privatemusings (
talk) 23:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
ps.. this from the lead "His application for review has been accepted by the European Court of Human Rights in 2008." requires a source... Privatemusings ( talk) 03:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
The scan by the subject is a great find, as it gives the application number and document management reference IDs. ECHR-LE1.1R / PHA/gw / Application no. 46612/07 . "ECHR-LE1.1R" appears to indicate that this is a "Registration Letter", which should could give context to what stage it was really at in October 2007. It is easier to find good secondary sources if you understand the primary sources. I've no idea what PHA/gw means. Plugging away at the search form makes me think it hasnt gone anywhere, yet, and wont be for a while.
On the copyright aspect, that site and the subject do not have any copyright claim on the document if European Court of Human Rights explicitly releases their documents into the public domain, which is done by similar bodies, such as the {{ PD-UN}}. John Vandenberg ( chat) 11:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I'd definitely like to see the other mentors weigh in on this: a highly sensitive biography, to be sure. And since I'm not particularly familiar with the topic it's hard to gauge where the appropriate weight would be for this subject. Quite possibly not the best place to get started: gives me visions of taking a backflip off the diving board into a shark infested swimming pool...which is a slight improvement over taking a high dive onto a wet napkin, I suppose, but...um... Using blogs as sources is problematic. Per the reliable sources guideline, this site only accepts blogs as citations under very limited circumstances. We'll have to have a conversation on the details of blog citations, but as a general rule it's usually the case that in a biography about some person, the only blog that's citable is that individual's own personal blog. For the time being let's approach it this way: if you'd like to cite a blog, let's talk it over in advance. Best wishes, Durova Charge! 06:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
John and Lar will be able to take a look at the discussion held around November last year about the addition to this article of a snippet of information concerning this youtube video. Basically I addded something along the lines of 'In October 2007, he applied for the posthumous pardon of Dr. Crippen' - I then mentioned on the talk page (something along the lines) that I thought this was an interesting, light hearted extra bit of uncontentious information (hence maybe appropriate under the 'self-pub' guidelines). I was met with very strong opposition on the talk page, and indeed arbcom linked to this edit (along with two others from an evidence section) when stating that I had edited BLPs inappropriately. My judgement in this matter has been continously questioned (I think most recently last week?) - and I confess in this quiet corner that I don't really understand all aspects of the problem with my editing in this specific instance...
Or to cut to the chase - I still think this fact is kinda interesting, and is a fun extra 'titbit', whose inclusion would be both uncontroversial and just plain fun! I'm most swayed by the 'weight' issue which may result - it would be interesting (for me!) to know if I mentioned that at the time? can't remember! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 07:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)by the way - feel free to just say 'moth - stay away from the flame!' - if you don't want to bite this off!
I concur with Jayvdb here. Stay AWAY from this topic. Please. Don't even propose changing so much as an a to an an... Thanks. ++ Lar: t/ c 18:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Fifth up today (2nd BLP, first article was a one line swedish politician stub) - this process in itself is giving me a greater understanding of 'where we're at' so to speak on the BLP front.... it continues to be a bit eye opening. Final sentence of first para needs to be removed, pending a source (now that actually is potentially libelous!) - sadly I'm aware that this article is largely accurate. Ref. 10 could be used for the first problem sentence, but to my eye a careful re-write may be neccessary.. in fact that's really what the whole article needs. This one would take a bit of time, and I don't think that right now is a good time for me to be touching stuff like this. I'll come back to it in a week or so.... Privatemusings ( talk) 11:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
< prior to subpage creation (which I still think is probably the easiest way for me to work, and has the same functionality as the edit / revert thing?) - here's a response for John, for the talk page; "My approach is based on the ideas of Fifties childcare 'guru' Truby King, a New Zealander, whose views influenced a generation of post-war mothers." - from this article (currently Ref 6 on the page). Privatemusings ( talk) 05:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
12th up today on Random button... not a lot to say on this one (except that it reminds me of a football magazine in tone!) - clicking 'random' has become a bit of a habit, and it's interesting (to me!) what comes up! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 08:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
1st up in round two (or 13th up, after a pause and the above) - I'm afraid I'm gonna say that on balance, overall, I still believe that totally unsourced bio.s should be proposed for deletion (without prejudice). Privatemusings ( talk) 08:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)...on the other hand, he may be responsible for peace in Sri Lanka, so I certainly don't want to upset or distract him :-) (this is intended with a light heart, so please don't infer any disrespect to genuine humanitarian efforts - it's certainly not intended!)
4th up today - this one's alright - except the details of recent legal action seem a bit boring - I'd cut them out as just plain dull :-) (I can provide a diff if you'd like, but it's fairly self explanatory!) Privatemusings ( talk) 10:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
18th up in round two (I think that's the longest a 'BLP' has taken so far!) - I'd prod this as completely unsourced per my thinking above - though it seems to be an entirely uncontentious article (per my previous discussion at the Scott section, we just can't know where damaging inaccuracy may lie.....) Privatemusings ( talk) 11:36, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
1st up today... totally unsourced - links to what seems to be a self-publishied website? I'd propose this one for deletion as not currently sourced appropriately, and not really a strong enough claim to notability to comply with policy in my book.... Privatemusings ( talk) 04:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Not a random button thing - I was listening to the Mark Watson show this arvo and thought I'd take a look at the articles... this is both a note to self to take a look more closely at comedian's articles - which could be a bit of a can of worms (comedians having, you know, a sense of humour 'n all!) - also to point out that there's no reference for Tim being a future host of Crufts...... hmmm..... Privatemusings ( talk) 07:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
..I think at some point we're gonna have to consider having a bit of a chat about stuff from the past. I consider some stuff a bit unresolved, and I get the feeling others do too.... Very short term, I plan to restore this draft, not with the intention of joining, influencing or engaging in any aspect of content discussion, but really because I want it on the record that I take great offence at being accused of having written 'libellous content', and because I believe that it's all too easy to allow a false 'general impression' to take root. I can wax lyrical about why I think this is important, personally and for the project - but would like to start with the restoration of that page for sunlight's sake.... Privatemusings ( talk) 06:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
9th up on the random button (and I felt I'd better do something useful after the above :-) ) - this article's had a pretty interesting time of things on wikipedia.... no edits to suggest, but I wanted to make a note, because I'm still looking at the BLP thing in broad terms, and this is an interesting one.... Privatemusings ( talk) 06:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
some problems with past tense stuff here! (as with many articles here) - I plan on doing a whole bunch of uncontroversial clean up in due course :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 08:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Do we need to file away items that were proposed, acted on and now you're done with? Or, in the end you decided not to pursue? This sort of archiving I think is not something a bot can do easily but I do think this page is getting a bit cluttered, I'm not sure where things stand on some of these. Thanks... All in all I think we're doing well here... ++ Lar: t/ c 02:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
This one's a bit of an emergency.... serious attention required. Privatemusings ( talk) 03:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see you did. You went from that reeeally bad version down to a one sentence, then back up to a bit more info (but supportable from solid references), then back down to one sentence. I've approved your intermediate version by reverting back to it. And stubbing it down to nothing was the right thing to do. ++ Lar: t/ c 04:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
< the 'keeping quiet' was related to another matter completely - and no, I certainly wasn't getting any 'keep quiet' impression from you :-) Sounds like we're both not sure! - I'll continue to cogitate........ maybe I'll try figure out a way to propose flagged rev.s gets turned on too - I think there will be significant unintended consequences, but we'll just have to cross those bridges when we get there, I guess - particularly if the current situation is untenable. Privatemusings ( talk) 00:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
p'raps we should bring the conversation about current mentoring status and recent events 'on wiki'? (i guess I mean in terms of discussing 'next steps' etc.) - I'll try and find a bit more time to put my thoughts in order :-) cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 04:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
How's about I create this, and try and get to as high a standard as possible :-)
I'm actually pretty excited about this thought! :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 05:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)ps. I'd be tickled to be able to make the very first edit on the page! - silly, innit! :-)
< - well things are progressing nicely on this one... it's brought together a few thoughts of mine, and I'm working on it offline a bit at the mo. I've touched base with JO, and had an interesting conversation about wikipedia in general, as well as his life and work (and pointers to 'reliable sources' of course!) - I'm in no rush, and also am a bit wiki-busy with other stuff at the mo.. being rather pleased and proud to now be helping the ChapCom - there are ropes to learn! I've committed firmly via email to focus the terms of this mentoring programme on developing the above article - and don't really know if that means we should dot the i's and cross the t's of the 'official' arb matter too? It'd be cool to bring the correspondence on-wiki if poss. :-) - thassalfernow.... Privatemusings ( talk) 07:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
I think I could help out here a bit, and am minded to begin editing the article and the talk page... would that be ok? :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 06:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
what'd be cool is a green light to edit as I feel is best on all the articles above? Hows does that sound :-) cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 06:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
we've hit a rough patch in this process, with problems due to my activity levels not really meeting expectations... I think we'll be chatting this through on wiki soon, and looking for the ways forward.... Privatemusings ( talk) 09:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
My advice, though you've no reason to rely on it, would be to voluntarily extend the period of mentorship with the understanding that it and its terms are voluntary - i.e., not imposed on you by arbitration or a community consensus. I think you can only benefit from mentorship. Obviously you don't need anyone to teach you how to think, or how to identify needed improvements for an article, or how to write within the MoS etc. What you will benefit from, though, is the long experience of your mentors in editing within the expectations of the community. That is the area of concern, and I think it would be in your interest to be able to say that you had a full and complete period of mentorship and exited it with the approval of your mentors. Avruch T 23:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
My mentorship has ended at the request of my mentors, which I feel is a great shame. Here's my message to arbcom, and mentors for the record;
Hi all,
(and sorry about the partial message before! - I think my hands slipped on the keyboard...)
I'd like to thank all of my mentors for the time they gave to the process, which is much appreciated. The wiki record of our work is here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Privatemusings/A_walk_on_a_path_in_a_garden
I feel the premature end of this process is a great shame, but understand that my mentors are not willing to continue. Sorry guys.
Durova had some very specific ideas about what I should and shouldn't edit (and I'm still gonna get John_Ogden_(photographer) up to GA if I possibly can!) - I'm sure we can continue to work together where our paths cross.
Lar has been very busy elsewhere, but always available when I popped into his talk page, and has dropped me some firm emails where necessary.
In particular though, I'd like to thank John, whom I have had by far and away the most contact with in this process. He has taken time to talk through entirely unrelated issues on IRC, has always responded almost immediately to my requests at the path page, and has offered concrete, substantive advice on many content issues. I particularly look forward to working closely with John in the coming months as the Australian Chapter gets off the ground. For being willing to be exasperated, cajoled, frustrated, and made occassionally grumpy in the name of helping me out; thank you, thank you, thank you!
I'll copy this 'on-wiki' because I think it's best, and wish to reassure one and all that my face is in fine fettle, and my preference is for open discussion where possible. I hope my editing restriction can be allowed to lapse at the three month point from the previous arb motion, and am happy to have any sort of review of my edits in the BLP area, or across the wiki-verse in general (or anything in between!).
best regards,
Peter PM.
Pretty much to restate my e-mail reply, I'll be very glad to see you continue to move forward with that GA drive. Ping me as needed there. Best wishes, Durova Charge! 01:43, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to gnome away on articles from this list... so am asking for a green light there :-) - there are many sensible tweaks and improvements, I think.... Privatemusings ( talk) 23:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
<- moving forward ok - discussion is happening :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 06:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Ok - so I was having a bit of a zen moment, hence the name of this particular corner of the wiki. This is the page where I'd like to reflect on my wiki experiences, talk with friends, colleagues, people who disagree with any of my ideas, or find me wanting in any way - all are welcome. |
The specific inspiration for this page has been a recommendation that I seek out a ' mentor', and I thought that as well as doing that, I'd keep the process entirely open. I've cajoled User:Lar to accept the official hat from me, but I'd actually like to be mentored by you, wiki reader - whomever you may be. Feel free to edit below, ask questions, make suggestions - It'd be great for this to be a very 'wiki' mentoring experience.
First I really must add a disclaimer here - that the GdS article is really a very hot potato - with possible serious consequences not only for the project, but for those who edit the article personally. GdS states that he is suing named editors for 50million euros in Italy - if you read the sources available you'll also note that GdS has stated that he has sued many others, some of whom report being unaware of any legal action to this day.
So it's not only a wikipedia hot potato, but a real world one too. There's a whole bunch of stuff in the wiki-past about this article - I feel that I was incredibly badly treated for no good reason - but here are two tangible suggestions to improve the article;
An update - the recent edits at the article, and talk, pages are quite interesting! - Looks like this is in pretty good hands. The sources now quoted in detail on the talk page are the reason the talk page history remains deleted, ironically enough - on a rationale of 'Don't link to sources which imply information we lack a good source for' (see here for an interesting exchange prior to one of my indefinite blocks...) - heaps of stuff to talk about here if anyone's interested, otherwise I'm just glad the article is moving in the right direction!! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 22:48, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
<- well it was a pretty odd one... hopefully the admin.s around here might be willing to take a look, and restore at least some of the history.. we'll see! (by the way my draft of the article was deleted as 'libellous content' - and from recollection it looked at least a little bit like yours! I think I've got a copy of the text somewhere, and will try and dig it out to review.... cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 04:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
<- interestingly - recent commentary at the article talk page seem to echo previous discussion - this is an example of where I think it's a bit unfair to hide previous good faith editors contributions (not withstanding my own ;-) ) - it forces folk into large circles, which I think is counter productive. I can't link to it or see it (but I don't think it'd be that hard to find!) - this may be worth a look though... Privatemusings ( talk) 12:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
this and this edit could, I guess, be seen by some as contravening my restriction - I obviously hope they're acceptable edits - this being the sort of wiki-gnoming which I most enjoy, and would like to be able to do quietly! - feedback most welcome; Privatemusings ( talk) 03:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
First page up - Michael_Brotherton.... another interesting one! - my thoughts / comments to follow - probably tomorrow.... :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 07:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Michael Brotherton was one of my earlier articles (well, expanded from a stub); obviously if I was doing it now I would have added many more references. Sam Blacketer ( talk) 12:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This one was fifth up after the above... there's some pretty obvious vandalism that needs removing - and again, I feel that a 'prod' would be the best thing for it. I'm actually loathe to remove the vandalism myself without removing material that is very clearly utterly unsubstantiated.. I'm becoming more interested in the fact that when we hit 'Save' we're in some way taking responsibility for veracity of the material.... I think we need a cultural shift fairly urgently, because articles like this simply aren't good enough. Privatemusings ( talk) 06:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
(longer discussion, slightly tangential, in the page history) - Privatemusings ( talk) 06:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
It's this sort of page that kind of annoys me not to be able to fix up... it would be so straight forward... in fact (and I think this is ok..?) - feel free to review this page which is my attempt to tidy up a bit. Privatemusings ( talk) 05:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Some more BLP editing that I'll pester someone to take a look at when I get the chance! - A bunch of maybe-just-about-ok-to-use pics from last night. Just don't talk to me about the result.. in fact don't talk to me at all - I seem to have left my voice at the ground. Privatemusings ( talk) 06:37, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
First up today (this refers to the number of times I pressed the 'random' button btw) - the sources used seem to be self-published, which may or may not be a problem - and he's not in the 'living people' category, which he probably should be. What's most interesting about this article for me is the veritable rabbit warren of genre type articles it led me down.... we have what looks like tens (if not hundreds) of articles about genres like Neurofunk, and Dark ambient - many of which refer to each other in their leads, but aren't really strongly referenced. We may need to take a look at how the musical sub-cultures which love to define genre after genre after genre translate into the best encyclopedic content. It's my first impression that there's an awful lot of chaff there.. of course I can edit freely in these areas, I just thought it was interesting! Privatemusings ( talk) 03:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thinking a bit about it, I think it'd be fitting to try and help 'Beaver' up to a decent standard - it's his last home game in a couple of weeks before he heads over to blighty (I don't think he realises how cold Bradford gets..... I reckon he'll be home in a fortnight!) - I'd plan on editing freely over there in a couple of days time to try and find ways to start improving it! Privatemusings ( talk) 06:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Dan Carter came up 7th today on Random button (well actually the Disambig page which led to him) - the third BLP (!) - first two were stub.s though (Canadian academic, and Norwegian politician - her middle name was 'bugge', poor bugger..) - quite cool really! - There's an odd claim that he was the first chap ever to buy a Vista PC, which may need sourcing or removing.. and there's a bit of clean up possible, I'd say.... I think maybe the 'green light' to do this sort of stuff might be a good idea at some point.... :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 07:45, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
How about a return back here? Really, PM, I think you'd gain the most at this point by picking one relatively low risk article and building that up with a sustained effort. That's the way most of us gained our experience. Durova Charge! 08:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
2nd article up today (after a country house) was Scott_Mulholland - it's poor and needs significant culling and should likely be deleted. I would nominate it for deletion in 5 days as unsourced if poss.... Privatemusings ( talk) 05:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
<- I've still got some concerns, jay - but an immediate extra edit would be to reword the first sentence... I think the implication of the past tense there is rather sad! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 01:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
< the cynic in me says that the info. may be too old to be chased up by now... but I hope I'm wrong! - given the tide of BLP problems that I feel we're facing - this little gem was 12th up in the Random button today.. first BLP - no way of knowing if the source is reliable, or if the article is appropriate.. there's actually a metric ton of these sort of articles which tells me that that's a whole other conversation that needs to be had - what level of sourcing is required for the statement that a woman starred in "Mrs Deep Throat"?! -- I wonder if prod=ing isn't actually the safest, most responsible option.
We don't really need to go round and round this one too much though - because I'm working on this page which will represent a bunch of pics suitable for eponymous articles, I hope! - this is actually an area I've always enjoyed contributing bits and bobs in - it'd be cool to get these guys into mainspace! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 00:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
The talk page is worth a review... (and I think my old-persona User:Purples acquits himself passably, though I'm not certain I would now take the exact same approach - all feedback about all comments there most welcome!).
The article in the third paragraph of this section states "He ran Decca Records twice" - review this section (and some sections just below it) for my rationale for why this should read "He was involved in running Decca Records".
There are also some interesting weight issues, and the article has some problems generally creeping in not-so-great directions.... following feedback on the above, I'm certainly prepared to create a subpage to demonstrate further improvements...
Once again, thanks heaps one and all for swinging by here... I'll re-factor as we go to try and keep this easily manageable, and if anyone has any questions at all, or other suggestions, please do feel free to pipe up! - cheers,
Privatemusings (
talk) 23:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
ps.. this from the lead "His application for review has been accepted by the European Court of Human Rights in 2008." requires a source... Privatemusings ( talk) 03:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
The scan by the subject is a great find, as it gives the application number and document management reference IDs. ECHR-LE1.1R / PHA/gw / Application no. 46612/07 . "ECHR-LE1.1R" appears to indicate that this is a "Registration Letter", which should could give context to what stage it was really at in October 2007. It is easier to find good secondary sources if you understand the primary sources. I've no idea what PHA/gw means. Plugging away at the search form makes me think it hasnt gone anywhere, yet, and wont be for a while.
On the copyright aspect, that site and the subject do not have any copyright claim on the document if European Court of Human Rights explicitly releases their documents into the public domain, which is done by similar bodies, such as the {{ PD-UN}}. John Vandenberg ( chat) 11:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I'd definitely like to see the other mentors weigh in on this: a highly sensitive biography, to be sure. And since I'm not particularly familiar with the topic it's hard to gauge where the appropriate weight would be for this subject. Quite possibly not the best place to get started: gives me visions of taking a backflip off the diving board into a shark infested swimming pool...which is a slight improvement over taking a high dive onto a wet napkin, I suppose, but...um... Using blogs as sources is problematic. Per the reliable sources guideline, this site only accepts blogs as citations under very limited circumstances. We'll have to have a conversation on the details of blog citations, but as a general rule it's usually the case that in a biography about some person, the only blog that's citable is that individual's own personal blog. For the time being let's approach it this way: if you'd like to cite a blog, let's talk it over in advance. Best wishes, Durova Charge! 06:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
John and Lar will be able to take a look at the discussion held around November last year about the addition to this article of a snippet of information concerning this youtube video. Basically I addded something along the lines of 'In October 2007, he applied for the posthumous pardon of Dr. Crippen' - I then mentioned on the talk page (something along the lines) that I thought this was an interesting, light hearted extra bit of uncontentious information (hence maybe appropriate under the 'self-pub' guidelines). I was met with very strong opposition on the talk page, and indeed arbcom linked to this edit (along with two others from an evidence section) when stating that I had edited BLPs inappropriately. My judgement in this matter has been continously questioned (I think most recently last week?) - and I confess in this quiet corner that I don't really understand all aspects of the problem with my editing in this specific instance...
Or to cut to the chase - I still think this fact is kinda interesting, and is a fun extra 'titbit', whose inclusion would be both uncontroversial and just plain fun! I'm most swayed by the 'weight' issue which may result - it would be interesting (for me!) to know if I mentioned that at the time? can't remember! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 07:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)by the way - feel free to just say 'moth - stay away from the flame!' - if you don't want to bite this off!
I concur with Jayvdb here. Stay AWAY from this topic. Please. Don't even propose changing so much as an a to an an... Thanks. ++ Lar: t/ c 18:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Fifth up today (2nd BLP, first article was a one line swedish politician stub) - this process in itself is giving me a greater understanding of 'where we're at' so to speak on the BLP front.... it continues to be a bit eye opening. Final sentence of first para needs to be removed, pending a source (now that actually is potentially libelous!) - sadly I'm aware that this article is largely accurate. Ref. 10 could be used for the first problem sentence, but to my eye a careful re-write may be neccessary.. in fact that's really what the whole article needs. This one would take a bit of time, and I don't think that right now is a good time for me to be touching stuff like this. I'll come back to it in a week or so.... Privatemusings ( talk) 11:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
< prior to subpage creation (which I still think is probably the easiest way for me to work, and has the same functionality as the edit / revert thing?) - here's a response for John, for the talk page; "My approach is based on the ideas of Fifties childcare 'guru' Truby King, a New Zealander, whose views influenced a generation of post-war mothers." - from this article (currently Ref 6 on the page). Privatemusings ( talk) 05:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
12th up today on Random button... not a lot to say on this one (except that it reminds me of a football magazine in tone!) - clicking 'random' has become a bit of a habit, and it's interesting (to me!) what comes up! cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 08:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
1st up in round two (or 13th up, after a pause and the above) - I'm afraid I'm gonna say that on balance, overall, I still believe that totally unsourced bio.s should be proposed for deletion (without prejudice). Privatemusings ( talk) 08:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)...on the other hand, he may be responsible for peace in Sri Lanka, so I certainly don't want to upset or distract him :-) (this is intended with a light heart, so please don't infer any disrespect to genuine humanitarian efforts - it's certainly not intended!)
4th up today - this one's alright - except the details of recent legal action seem a bit boring - I'd cut them out as just plain dull :-) (I can provide a diff if you'd like, but it's fairly self explanatory!) Privatemusings ( talk) 10:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
18th up in round two (I think that's the longest a 'BLP' has taken so far!) - I'd prod this as completely unsourced per my thinking above - though it seems to be an entirely uncontentious article (per my previous discussion at the Scott section, we just can't know where damaging inaccuracy may lie.....) Privatemusings ( talk) 11:36, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
1st up today... totally unsourced - links to what seems to be a self-publishied website? I'd propose this one for deletion as not currently sourced appropriately, and not really a strong enough claim to notability to comply with policy in my book.... Privatemusings ( talk) 04:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Not a random button thing - I was listening to the Mark Watson show this arvo and thought I'd take a look at the articles... this is both a note to self to take a look more closely at comedian's articles - which could be a bit of a can of worms (comedians having, you know, a sense of humour 'n all!) - also to point out that there's no reference for Tim being a future host of Crufts...... hmmm..... Privatemusings ( talk) 07:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
..I think at some point we're gonna have to consider having a bit of a chat about stuff from the past. I consider some stuff a bit unresolved, and I get the feeling others do too.... Very short term, I plan to restore this draft, not with the intention of joining, influencing or engaging in any aspect of content discussion, but really because I want it on the record that I take great offence at being accused of having written 'libellous content', and because I believe that it's all too easy to allow a false 'general impression' to take root. I can wax lyrical about why I think this is important, personally and for the project - but would like to start with the restoration of that page for sunlight's sake.... Privatemusings ( talk) 06:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
9th up on the random button (and I felt I'd better do something useful after the above :-) ) - this article's had a pretty interesting time of things on wikipedia.... no edits to suggest, but I wanted to make a note, because I'm still looking at the BLP thing in broad terms, and this is an interesting one.... Privatemusings ( talk) 06:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
some problems with past tense stuff here! (as with many articles here) - I plan on doing a whole bunch of uncontroversial clean up in due course :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 08:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Do we need to file away items that were proposed, acted on and now you're done with? Or, in the end you decided not to pursue? This sort of archiving I think is not something a bot can do easily but I do think this page is getting a bit cluttered, I'm not sure where things stand on some of these. Thanks... All in all I think we're doing well here... ++ Lar: t/ c 02:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
This one's a bit of an emergency.... serious attention required. Privatemusings ( talk) 03:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see you did. You went from that reeeally bad version down to a one sentence, then back up to a bit more info (but supportable from solid references), then back down to one sentence. I've approved your intermediate version by reverting back to it. And stubbing it down to nothing was the right thing to do. ++ Lar: t/ c 04:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
< the 'keeping quiet' was related to another matter completely - and no, I certainly wasn't getting any 'keep quiet' impression from you :-) Sounds like we're both not sure! - I'll continue to cogitate........ maybe I'll try figure out a way to propose flagged rev.s gets turned on too - I think there will be significant unintended consequences, but we'll just have to cross those bridges when we get there, I guess - particularly if the current situation is untenable. Privatemusings ( talk) 00:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
p'raps we should bring the conversation about current mentoring status and recent events 'on wiki'? (i guess I mean in terms of discussing 'next steps' etc.) - I'll try and find a bit more time to put my thoughts in order :-) cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 04:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
How's about I create this, and try and get to as high a standard as possible :-)
I'm actually pretty excited about this thought! :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 05:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)ps. I'd be tickled to be able to make the very first edit on the page! - silly, innit! :-)
< - well things are progressing nicely on this one... it's brought together a few thoughts of mine, and I'm working on it offline a bit at the mo. I've touched base with JO, and had an interesting conversation about wikipedia in general, as well as his life and work (and pointers to 'reliable sources' of course!) - I'm in no rush, and also am a bit wiki-busy with other stuff at the mo.. being rather pleased and proud to now be helping the ChapCom - there are ropes to learn! I've committed firmly via email to focus the terms of this mentoring programme on developing the above article - and don't really know if that means we should dot the i's and cross the t's of the 'official' arb matter too? It'd be cool to bring the correspondence on-wiki if poss. :-) - thassalfernow.... Privatemusings ( talk) 07:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
I think I could help out here a bit, and am minded to begin editing the article and the talk page... would that be ok? :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 06:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
what'd be cool is a green light to edit as I feel is best on all the articles above? Hows does that sound :-) cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 06:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
we've hit a rough patch in this process, with problems due to my activity levels not really meeting expectations... I think we'll be chatting this through on wiki soon, and looking for the ways forward.... Privatemusings ( talk) 09:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
My advice, though you've no reason to rely on it, would be to voluntarily extend the period of mentorship with the understanding that it and its terms are voluntary - i.e., not imposed on you by arbitration or a community consensus. I think you can only benefit from mentorship. Obviously you don't need anyone to teach you how to think, or how to identify needed improvements for an article, or how to write within the MoS etc. What you will benefit from, though, is the long experience of your mentors in editing within the expectations of the community. That is the area of concern, and I think it would be in your interest to be able to say that you had a full and complete period of mentorship and exited it with the approval of your mentors. Avruch T 23:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
My mentorship has ended at the request of my mentors, which I feel is a great shame. Here's my message to arbcom, and mentors for the record;
Hi all,
(and sorry about the partial message before! - I think my hands slipped on the keyboard...)
I'd like to thank all of my mentors for the time they gave to the process, which is much appreciated. The wiki record of our work is here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Privatemusings/A_walk_on_a_path_in_a_garden
I feel the premature end of this process is a great shame, but understand that my mentors are not willing to continue. Sorry guys.
Durova had some very specific ideas about what I should and shouldn't edit (and I'm still gonna get John_Ogden_(photographer) up to GA if I possibly can!) - I'm sure we can continue to work together where our paths cross.
Lar has been very busy elsewhere, but always available when I popped into his talk page, and has dropped me some firm emails where necessary.
In particular though, I'd like to thank John, whom I have had by far and away the most contact with in this process. He has taken time to talk through entirely unrelated issues on IRC, has always responded almost immediately to my requests at the path page, and has offered concrete, substantive advice on many content issues. I particularly look forward to working closely with John in the coming months as the Australian Chapter gets off the ground. For being willing to be exasperated, cajoled, frustrated, and made occassionally grumpy in the name of helping me out; thank you, thank you, thank you!
I'll copy this 'on-wiki' because I think it's best, and wish to reassure one and all that my face is in fine fettle, and my preference is for open discussion where possible. I hope my editing restriction can be allowed to lapse at the three month point from the previous arb motion, and am happy to have any sort of review of my edits in the BLP area, or across the wiki-verse in general (or anything in between!).
best regards,
Peter PM.
Pretty much to restate my e-mail reply, I'll be very glad to see you continue to move forward with that GA drive. Ping me as needed there. Best wishes, Durova Charge! 01:43, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to gnome away on articles from this list... so am asking for a green light there :-) - there are many sensible tweaks and improvements, I think.... Privatemusings ( talk) 23:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
<- moving forward ok - discussion is happening :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 06:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)