It is clear that the contemporary sensitivity on the origins of place names is directly attributable to the rise of nationalism as an ideology. 'The official name' of a city did not mean what it means today, say, back in the 15th century. The Ottomans certainly did use 'Kostantiniye' (among other names) in official context (edicts, other documents, coins). But not in an exclusive, or even in a predominant manner. It is understandably picked up more readily by a Western (or Greek) ear. Among the population and in the literature, Istanbul primed. And its officialization marked a point not only toward Constantinople, but toward Islambol as well. -- Cretanforever. (I do not expect a Greek person to say anything other than Konstantinopoli or Smyrna or whatever when speaking or writing in Greek. Historically, they are his cities as well. That goes for any Greek source. If we are into personal connections, I did go to Ierapetra in Crete, and I see the fountain built by my great-grandfather, and I cried, so I know more or less what it feels like. When I speak in Turkish I say Selanik or Kandiye or Kaylari -do you know where that is?, it is today's Πτολεμαΐδα-, but I take care in using the actual names in a conversation with a Greek (or other non-Turkish) person. And I think that, in an encycopedia article in English, the local/current/official/standardized name should be used.)
I humbly think that Greek energies would be better spent on developing the Greek wikipedia (some 7000 articles, against 13500 in Turkish), rather than in interminable discussions on the basics and methods of the English wikipedia. We have more articles on Greek cities of antiquity than the Greeks: :) :) :) [1]
(Commenting on edit wars and talk page flames regarding the former's name and surname...)
If only republican revolutionaries would have the good sense to guillotine their deposed monarchs (and their families) rather than send them into exile to make trouble, all this bother could be avoided.
Adam 02:56, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
The nations of southeastern Europe possess all the cultural conditions for autonomous development. They are related economically. They should be related politically. Socialism will therefore uphold with all its influence the idea of the solidarity of the Balkan nations. ~~Manifesto of the Federation
I see that you are an Orthodox Christian who has at some point been interested in the Hypatia article. I wondered if you could shed some light on a query I have about the article (see Talk:Hypatia of Alexandria#Use of the word "dogma"). I see that "dogmatic" was used as a substitute for "fundamentalist" after some debate but I am not certain that the people who decided on use of the word "dogma" quite understand its theological meaning, especially in the Orthodox tradition. I don't completely understand it myself, but I did attend a lecture by the (largely anti-Christian) religious scholar Karen Armstrong who roundly condemned the use of "dogmatic" as a term of abuse and stated her conclusion that, particularly in the Othodox understanding of it, dogma is actually a very good thing. She argued that its negative connotations had emerged partly because it was used by analogy on people (e.g. politicians) who acted in a blind, unthinking and uncritical belief and partly because less and less people understand the theological meaning. AFAICS, if an anti-Christian scholar is saying that dogma is good and dogmatic shouldn't be used to carry negative connotations, people ought to be wary of applying it, especially to Christians (for whom it holds a particular religious meaning distinct from the meaning of popular understanding) and also particularly to people who lived before it acquired its current connotations! You seem to be a fairly logical person to ask to see if I am barking up the wrong tree or not :) Any feedback would be appreciated, but if you really don't know/don't care it's no problem. Sorry to bother you! VivaEmilyDavies 18:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This edit summary: my name is bond, cultural bond. !!!!
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." Speech to Parliament 1783
It is clear that the contemporary sensitivity on the origins of place names is directly attributable to the rise of nationalism as an ideology. 'The official name' of a city did not mean what it means today, say, back in the 15th century. The Ottomans certainly did use 'Kostantiniye' (among other names) in official context (edicts, other documents, coins). But not in an exclusive, or even in a predominant manner. It is understandably picked up more readily by a Western (or Greek) ear. Among the population and in the literature, Istanbul primed. And its officialization marked a point not only toward Constantinople, but toward Islambol as well. -- Cretanforever. (I do not expect a Greek person to say anything other than Konstantinopoli or Smyrna or whatever when speaking or writing in Greek. Historically, they are his cities as well. That goes for any Greek source. If we are into personal connections, I did go to Ierapetra in Crete, and I see the fountain built by my great-grandfather, and I cried, so I know more or less what it feels like. When I speak in Turkish I say Selanik or Kandiye or Kaylari -do you know where that is?, it is today's Πτολεμαΐδα-, but I take care in using the actual names in a conversation with a Greek (or other non-Turkish) person. And I think that, in an encycopedia article in English, the local/current/official/standardized name should be used.)
I humbly think that Greek energies would be better spent on developing the Greek wikipedia (some 7000 articles, against 13500 in Turkish), rather than in interminable discussions on the basics and methods of the English wikipedia. We have more articles on Greek cities of antiquity than the Greeks: :) :) :) [1]
(Commenting on edit wars and talk page flames regarding the former's name and surname...)
If only republican revolutionaries would have the good sense to guillotine their deposed monarchs (and their families) rather than send them into exile to make trouble, all this bother could be avoided.
Adam 02:56, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
The nations of southeastern Europe possess all the cultural conditions for autonomous development. They are related economically. They should be related politically. Socialism will therefore uphold with all its influence the idea of the solidarity of the Balkan nations. ~~Manifesto of the Federation
I see that you are an Orthodox Christian who has at some point been interested in the Hypatia article. I wondered if you could shed some light on a query I have about the article (see Talk:Hypatia of Alexandria#Use of the word "dogma"). I see that "dogmatic" was used as a substitute for "fundamentalist" after some debate but I am not certain that the people who decided on use of the word "dogma" quite understand its theological meaning, especially in the Orthodox tradition. I don't completely understand it myself, but I did attend a lecture by the (largely anti-Christian) religious scholar Karen Armstrong who roundly condemned the use of "dogmatic" as a term of abuse and stated her conclusion that, particularly in the Othodox understanding of it, dogma is actually a very good thing. She argued that its negative connotations had emerged partly because it was used by analogy on people (e.g. politicians) who acted in a blind, unthinking and uncritical belief and partly because less and less people understand the theological meaning. AFAICS, if an anti-Christian scholar is saying that dogma is good and dogmatic shouldn't be used to carry negative connotations, people ought to be wary of applying it, especially to Christians (for whom it holds a particular religious meaning distinct from the meaning of popular understanding) and also particularly to people who lived before it acquired its current connotations! You seem to be a fairly logical person to ask to see if I am barking up the wrong tree or not :) Any feedback would be appreciated, but if you really don't know/don't care it's no problem. Sorry to bother you! VivaEmilyDavies 18:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This edit summary: my name is bond, cultural bond. !!!!
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." Speech to Parliament 1783