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Hello:

As I explained on my user talk page, I've been mostly off WP for almost a year (I think) and am rusty. I'm also a little strapped for time. I will start my comments at FAC, but rather than holding forth more extensively there, I'm penning my thoughts here, and you are welcome to take them or leave them. I'm still reading your article, and enjoying reading it, as usual.

My thoughts:

Lead

  • Controversialist: Is the word common enough these days for an encyclopedia entry lead sentence?
    • The first attested use per OED was in 1750. The frequency of use at the time was 0.055 per million recorded words in written English, or once per 8.5 million recorded words. The frequency of use at its peak in 1870 was 0.95 per million words, which is more or less once per one million recorded words in English. By 2010 the frequency was back down to 0.12 per million words, or approximately once per 8.4 million words in English. By March 2023, it had slipped further to 0.015 times per million words in English, or once per 66 million words. (I'm doing the sums in my head, so they might not be exact, but they are probably not far off the mark. In any case, it is not the numbers per se, but the relative drop in usage that might be informative.)
  • Plymouth Brethren I don't know what the reigning dogma is at MOS about links, ...
    • ... but for those readers who don't want to click out early in the lead, could that link be paraphrased in some succinct way?
      • General non-FAC remark: Shades here of the childhood of Wingate of Wingate's Circus, whose biography I read in high school. As for an oppressive father, shades also of Mandell Creighton, who too lost his mother as a child, but whose father, though not a zealous evangelist, never remarried and lost his temper easily. Similarly, Creighton's father was not generous in supplementing his son's less-than-adequate postmastership (a tuition waiver) at Merton.
  • "was not allowed to go to school until he was fourteen, and was largely self-educated. He was admitted to the University of Oxford"
    • Would the following be more easily understood by a novice reader: "was not allowed to go to school until he was fourteen. Largely self-educated and lacking in means (/financial resources), he was admitted to the University of Oxford as an unattached student. He gained a first-class bachelor's degree in 1884, and election to a fellowship at All Souls College, Oxford the same year."?
  • "Feeling a vocation to minister to the urban poor, Henson served in the East End of London and Barking ..."
    • I'm guessing "vocation" is used here in the meaning of "conviction," rather than "occupation," but would most readers know this, assuming my conjecture is correct? Would "Conscious of a conviction to minister to ..." be less ambiguous for some?
      • PS Actually, I like "feeling" here with "occupation" too (e.g. in the meaning of feeling one's way among likes, dislikes, and propensities to arrive at an occupation), but I'm not sure this is implied.
  • "before becoming chaplain of an ancient hospice in Ilford in 1895."
    • Unless "ancient" is used in the meaning of long-established or very old, its 1185 CE (the year of its founding) would be smack in the medieval period. Perhaps "ancient" has some other specialized meaning in this context, but generally, its use might confuse readers who click on the link and probe further.
  • "In 1900 he was appointed to the high-profile post of vicar of St Margaret's, Westminster and canon of Westminster Abbey."
    • This might be a personal peeve. I doubt the word "high-profile" existed in 1900; of course, that is not reason enough not to use it, but would something like: "The year 1900 brought him into the public eye as vicar of St Margaret's, Westminster and canon of Westminster Abbey." be better? Your call.
  • More soon. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for these points. Very helpful, and I look forward to more. Tim riley talk 11:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • "While there, and as Dean of Durham (1913–1918), he wrote prolifically and sometimes controversially."
    • Would "While there, and thereafter as Dean of Durham (1913–1918), he wrote prolifically and sometimes controversially." emphasize the time sequence more to a novice reader?
  • He was tolerant of a wide range of theological views; because of this some members of the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England accused him of heresy and sought unsuccessfully to block his appointment as Bishop of Hereford in 1917.
    • Would a subordinate clause here be better? E.g. "As in these writings he showed tolerance for a wide range of theological views, some members of the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England accused him of heresy and sought unsuccessfully to block his appointment as Bishop of Hereford in 1917."
  • "In 1920, after two years in the largely rural diocese of Hereford, Henson returned to Durham as its bishop."
    • As the fact of it being rural is unknown to the reader, the definite article might not be appropriate. Would the following be better? "In 1920, after two years at Hereford, a largely rural diocese, Henson returned to Durham as its bishop."
      • Someone could very well ask though: why are we mentioning "rural" at all? I.e. is "rural" here serving to minimize or depreciate Hereford in some way? Would the following be better: In 1920, after two years at Hereford, a largely rural diocese, Henson returned to the industrial city of Durham as its bishop. The north-east of England ...?"
  • "Henson was opposed to strikes, trade unions and socialism, and for a time his forthright expression of his views made him unpopular in the diocese.
    • Would the following be better: "Henson was opposed to strikes, trade unions and socialism, and for a time his outspoken opposition to them made him unpopular in the diocese.?" (Some borderline alliteration here, though not of stresses.)
  • The remaining sentences in the lead are fine.
    • (Non-FAC remark) I have the Oxford World's Classics version of all three Books of Common Prayer somewhere. Will look at the 1928 version more carefully. Thanks.

Early years

First half
  • General remark: The issue in this section is not so much the writing, which is smooth, but the sources and what they say. They leave his early childhood a bit opaque.
  • The sources can't be blamed much for this, as Henson was extremely reticent about his childhood. In his 12,000+ page, three-volume memoirs, he devotes just over three pages to his childhood and pre-Oxford years. – Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Henson's biographer John Peart-Binns writes that Henson senior's "bleak outlook on the world" and "feeling of urgency to be prepared for the Second Coming" caused his family life to be one of all-pervading darkness.[2]
    • Why did the father have the bleak outlook in the first place? Is there anything about the father's character other than the preparation for the Second Coming that would have created an oppressive family atmosphere?
  • His wife shielded the children from the worst excesses of what the biographer Matthew Grimley describes as Thomas's "bigotry",[3]
    • Are the forms of bigotry described?
      • Not really. Henson says that after his mother died my father’s evangelicalism was deepened and darkened by his bereavement. He seemed to lose interest in everything except religion, and under the influence of some Plymouth Brethren who, about that time, came to live in our neighbourhood, his religion degenerated into bigotry. He never joined the sect, but he read their literature, shared many of their opinions and grew into their narrow intolerance". – Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • but in 1870 she died, and, in Henson's words, "with her died our happiness".[4]
    • Moving. Simple and heartfelt.
  • Grimley comments that Henson's unhappy childhood "could have come straight out of the pages of Charles Dickens".[3]
  • From an early age the young Henson was a dedicated Christian and felt a vocation for the Anglican priesthood; his father's fundamentalist views were anathema, and left him with what Grimley calls "an enduring hatred of protestant fanaticism".[3]
    • This is also a bit perplexing. How did he manage to have this ambition at seven or even ten, when his father remarried? How did he come to know about Anglican priesthood presumably in a closed, not to mention doubting, family universe? Or is it a later early age?
  • In 1873 Thomas Henson remarried;[n 1] Emma Parker, widow of a Lutheran pastor, ensured that the children were properly educated. In Henson's phrase, "she recreated the home".[6]
    • Simple and eloquent.
  • She secured Henson access to his father's extensive library, and introduced him to the works of Walter Scott and translations of classical authors, helping to form his literary style.
    • This is perplexing again. We know nothing thus far about the father's library, let alone an extensive one. Do the sources say which books of Scott (e.g. Ivanhoe, a perennial favorite, at least in the 19th-century?) or which translations (e.g. Dryden's of Virgil and others?) HHH found memorable? Presumably, the translator's style would have affected the imbibed one.
      • I've deleted "his father's extensive library", which I think was my misreading of the sources. Thomas, we know, read religious publications, and had originally been an Anglican and may have owned religious works left over from his Anglican days, but again, I'm merely guessing and the sources don't say. The Scott novels were brought to the household by HH's stepmother, "along with translations of Thucydides and Plutarch. It was a curiously mixed bag, but I absorbed it with avidity". Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Non-FAC remark: Unlike Creighton, born in 1843, who had both Greek and Latin at Carlisle Grammar School (for why else would his fellow students have nicknamed him "Homer?"), HHH, born in 1863, had neither. He certainly would have had Latin, were it not for an oppressive father.
  • He remained devoted to her – he called her Carissima – and once he was an adult he cared for her until her death in 1924.[3][7]
    • Nice.
      • Indeed, but I am unsure whether to offer a translation and risk spoiling the effect: "He remained devoted to her – he called her Carissima (dearest)…" My conclusion is that it is too clunky to add the translation, but I'd welcome a second opinion. – Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
        • I agree. A translation is not needed. Google brings up the meaning immediately. If there is a clamor for it at FAC, you could footnote it, but no more. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:35, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
          • I appreciate your detailed replies. PS I just realized that I created this page in user space not user talk space; as a result, it might not have many of the tools of talk space. I might transfer it to talk space if it makes it easier, but will let you know. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:35, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply

I don't mind where you post your comments as long as you keep then coming. At least two of your suggestions above rank as Eureka moments to me. Tim riley talk 12:57, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Thank you. Will do. I just read Chadwick's chapter on Henson's childhood. It was written 40 years ago. Chadwick, who held the chair of ecclesiastical history at Cambridge—whose inaugural occupant was Mandell Creighton—and later the Regius Professorship—was very likely on the top of the heap in his field, Perhaps this gave him the confidence to write in a style, at once skimming the trees and delving deep, expansive and literary, impressionistic and detailed—that makes it enjoyable reading, but that perhaps most historians today would not attempt and many scholarly publishers might not accept. It will need quite a few more readings, at least for me, than one. Henson had a complicated childhood. His father had a complicated childhood. Henson was precocious—perhaps not to the extent of a Kipling or a Macaulay, but would not have been far behind in a supportive family environment. It seems even before the arrival of Emma Parker, Henson had been reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs, Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress, and soon after, came to like Paradise Lost in his father's library. With those sorts of literary antecedents, at least for an English style, one could ask: who needs Walter Scott or the translated classics? So, all in all, I think Henson's childhood, being complicated and potentially of various interpretations, is probably best not probed deeper than it is in your excellent section. I'll move on to his Broadstairs years next. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:37, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Upon a second reading of Chadwick, ch 1, perhaps a couple of factual things could be added. Do you think there would be more context if the second sentence were replaced by some version of, "Thomas Henson was raised in a farming family in Morebath, south of Exmoor. As a young man, he had quarreled with his father and left home to go into business in London. By 1865, when Hensley was two years old, Thomas had prospered enough to purchase a property in Broadstairs on the Kent coast, to retire there at age 53 and devote himself to gardening and religion?"
  • Immediately after Martha's death, might the following sentence citing Chadwick be better than the one in place citing Grimley? "The older three boys having already left home, the gloom that befell the house, the drudgery that was experienced by the two daughters, especially the younger in running a household of five children, and Thomas's drift into ever narrower religious beliefs "together made a childhood purgatory worthy of the pen of a Dickens or a Bronte," in the words of historian Owen Chadwick.
  • Is it worth changing "From an early age the young Henson was a dedicated Christian and felt a vocation for the Anglican priesthood; his father's fundamentalist views were anathema, and left him with what Grimley calls "an enduring hatred of protestant fanaticism".[3]" to "The young Henson became a dedicated ... protestant fanaticism." but adding the following sentences before:
    • "Hensley Hensen was taught by his father to detest slavery. The first novel that moved him was Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin.<Chadwick, p.3> Thomas Henson also forbade his children to go to school, play with other children, or go on holidays. Deprived of everything except religion, his family, and his father's library, Hensely "escaped into the library. At an early age he became the voracious reader of the family."<Chadwick, p. 4> According to Chadwick, among the books in the library customarily read by children in those days were John Foxe's Book of Martyrs and John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. Hensely also came to love John Milton's Paradise Lost.<Chadwick, p. 5> Displaying precocity, and having no recourse to other boys' books, he began to devour the mature writings in theology, including the eccentric ones. "By the age of fourteen this prodigious boy had read," in the words of Chadwick, "as deeply in divinity as many young men when they take holy orders."<Chadwick, p. 5> Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
      • I suspect, the rebellion against the father probably came in the early teenage years. There was very likely an adaptive phase that preceded it. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
        • Chadwick seems to corroborate this, but placing it even later: By the time he was in his late teens and thinking for himself, he regarded sectarian evangelical religion as a monstrous evil to be fought with every claw. He had horror of the Plymouth Brethren – poisonous schismatics he once called them, several times by other opprobrious names, and never with tolerance. He had horror of over-emotional evangelical preachers, the missionaries of the later nineteenth century, the Baptist Noels of his childhood, the itinerant assailants of the brittle hearts of youth.<Chadwick, p. 7>
  • "He rose to be head boy of the school, but after a dispute with the headmaster during which Henson expressed "with more passion than respect"[13] his opinion of the head, he ran away from the school in 1879.[13]"
    • I wonder if we can call it running away. Would be more accurate to paraphrase Chadwick here in some fashion? E.g. : When Thomas Henson moved from Broadstairs to Pegwell Bay in 1879, Hensley became a boarder at Broadstairs Collegiate School. He was soon appointed head boy, but not for long. An incident occurred in the dormitory involving a misdemeanor. Henson, when asked by the Head, identified the misdemeanor but not the culprits, leading him to be accused of lying. Touched to the quick, he spoke intemperately to the Head in a confrontation before the whole school. That night, Henson wrote a letter to the Head, scaled the school wall, and walked the five miles back to the new Henson family home in Pegwell Bay, never returning to any school thereafter.<Chadwick, pp. 11–12> Fowler&fowler «Talk» 02:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: I've just taken a look at the Early Years section of Hensley Henson. It is already on the longish side. Last night I was tired. So, if any of the suggestions above are accepted, they'll need to be reduced quite a bit.
  • (HH cont.) "That apart, he found he derived little educational benefit, having already educated himself widely and deeply from books in his father's library."
    • Nice.
  • "Thomas Henson was against the idea, partly because his financial means had declined, but was talked round by his wife and gave his consent."

All Souls

  • No complaints here. Two standout sentences, especially the second. are: Aware that his quick tongue could lead him into indiscretion, he adopted and maintained all his life the practice of writing out his lectures and sermons in full beforehand rather than improvising or speaking from concise notes.[22] He preferred a quill pen, and wrote in a fine clear hand; he considered illegible writing to be a form of bad manners as tiresome as inaudible talking.
  • PS I just remembered: in the previous section do you think St Catherine's College, Oxford#History might serve us better as the wikilink for "unattached student?" Otherwise, I'm done with this section too. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC) reply
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk:Fowler%26fowler/HHH_FAC&oldid=1235460211"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hello:

As I explained on my user talk page, I've been mostly off WP for almost a year (I think) and am rusty. I'm also a little strapped for time. I will start my comments at FAC, but rather than holding forth more extensively there, I'm penning my thoughts here, and you are welcome to take them or leave them. I'm still reading your article, and enjoying reading it, as usual.

My thoughts:

Lead

  • Controversialist: Is the word common enough these days for an encyclopedia entry lead sentence?
    • The first attested use per OED was in 1750. The frequency of use at the time was 0.055 per million recorded words in written English, or once per 8.5 million recorded words. The frequency of use at its peak in 1870 was 0.95 per million words, which is more or less once per one million recorded words in English. By 2010 the frequency was back down to 0.12 per million words, or approximately once per 8.4 million words in English. By March 2023, it had slipped further to 0.015 times per million words in English, or once per 66 million words. (I'm doing the sums in my head, so they might not be exact, but they are probably not far off the mark. In any case, it is not the numbers per se, but the relative drop in usage that might be informative.)
  • Plymouth Brethren I don't know what the reigning dogma is at MOS about links, ...
    • ... but for those readers who don't want to click out early in the lead, could that link be paraphrased in some succinct way?
      • General non-FAC remark: Shades here of the childhood of Wingate of Wingate's Circus, whose biography I read in high school. As for an oppressive father, shades also of Mandell Creighton, who too lost his mother as a child, but whose father, though not a zealous evangelist, never remarried and lost his temper easily. Similarly, Creighton's father was not generous in supplementing his son's less-than-adequate postmastership (a tuition waiver) at Merton.
  • "was not allowed to go to school until he was fourteen, and was largely self-educated. He was admitted to the University of Oxford"
    • Would the following be more easily understood by a novice reader: "was not allowed to go to school until he was fourteen. Largely self-educated and lacking in means (/financial resources), he was admitted to the University of Oxford as an unattached student. He gained a first-class bachelor's degree in 1884, and election to a fellowship at All Souls College, Oxford the same year."?
  • "Feeling a vocation to minister to the urban poor, Henson served in the East End of London and Barking ..."
    • I'm guessing "vocation" is used here in the meaning of "conviction," rather than "occupation," but would most readers know this, assuming my conjecture is correct? Would "Conscious of a conviction to minister to ..." be less ambiguous for some?
      • PS Actually, I like "feeling" here with "occupation" too (e.g. in the meaning of feeling one's way among likes, dislikes, and propensities to arrive at an occupation), but I'm not sure this is implied.
  • "before becoming chaplain of an ancient hospice in Ilford in 1895."
    • Unless "ancient" is used in the meaning of long-established or very old, its 1185 CE (the year of its founding) would be smack in the medieval period. Perhaps "ancient" has some other specialized meaning in this context, but generally, its use might confuse readers who click on the link and probe further.
  • "In 1900 he was appointed to the high-profile post of vicar of St Margaret's, Westminster and canon of Westminster Abbey."
    • This might be a personal peeve. I doubt the word "high-profile" existed in 1900; of course, that is not reason enough not to use it, but would something like: "The year 1900 brought him into the public eye as vicar of St Margaret's, Westminster and canon of Westminster Abbey." be better? Your call.
  • More soon. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for these points. Very helpful, and I look forward to more. Tim riley talk 11:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • "While there, and as Dean of Durham (1913–1918), he wrote prolifically and sometimes controversially."
    • Would "While there, and thereafter as Dean of Durham (1913–1918), he wrote prolifically and sometimes controversially." emphasize the time sequence more to a novice reader?
  • He was tolerant of a wide range of theological views; because of this some members of the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England accused him of heresy and sought unsuccessfully to block his appointment as Bishop of Hereford in 1917.
    • Would a subordinate clause here be better? E.g. "As in these writings he showed tolerance for a wide range of theological views, some members of the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England accused him of heresy and sought unsuccessfully to block his appointment as Bishop of Hereford in 1917."
  • "In 1920, after two years in the largely rural diocese of Hereford, Henson returned to Durham as its bishop."
    • As the fact of it being rural is unknown to the reader, the definite article might not be appropriate. Would the following be better? "In 1920, after two years at Hereford, a largely rural diocese, Henson returned to Durham as its bishop."
      • Someone could very well ask though: why are we mentioning "rural" at all? I.e. is "rural" here serving to minimize or depreciate Hereford in some way? Would the following be better: In 1920, after two years at Hereford, a largely rural diocese, Henson returned to the industrial city of Durham as its bishop. The north-east of England ...?"
  • "Henson was opposed to strikes, trade unions and socialism, and for a time his forthright expression of his views made him unpopular in the diocese.
    • Would the following be better: "Henson was opposed to strikes, trade unions and socialism, and for a time his outspoken opposition to them made him unpopular in the diocese.?" (Some borderline alliteration here, though not of stresses.)
  • The remaining sentences in the lead are fine.
    • (Non-FAC remark) I have the Oxford World's Classics version of all three Books of Common Prayer somewhere. Will look at the 1928 version more carefully. Thanks.

Early years

First half
  • General remark: The issue in this section is not so much the writing, which is smooth, but the sources and what they say. They leave his early childhood a bit opaque.
  • The sources can't be blamed much for this, as Henson was extremely reticent about his childhood. In his 12,000+ page, three-volume memoirs, he devotes just over three pages to his childhood and pre-Oxford years. – Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Henson's biographer John Peart-Binns writes that Henson senior's "bleak outlook on the world" and "feeling of urgency to be prepared for the Second Coming" caused his family life to be one of all-pervading darkness.[2]
    • Why did the father have the bleak outlook in the first place? Is there anything about the father's character other than the preparation for the Second Coming that would have created an oppressive family atmosphere?
  • His wife shielded the children from the worst excesses of what the biographer Matthew Grimley describes as Thomas's "bigotry",[3]
    • Are the forms of bigotry described?
      • Not really. Henson says that after his mother died my father’s evangelicalism was deepened and darkened by his bereavement. He seemed to lose interest in everything except religion, and under the influence of some Plymouth Brethren who, about that time, came to live in our neighbourhood, his religion degenerated into bigotry. He never joined the sect, but he read their literature, shared many of their opinions and grew into their narrow intolerance". – Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • but in 1870 she died, and, in Henson's words, "with her died our happiness".[4]
    • Moving. Simple and heartfelt.
  • Grimley comments that Henson's unhappy childhood "could have come straight out of the pages of Charles Dickens".[3]
  • From an early age the young Henson was a dedicated Christian and felt a vocation for the Anglican priesthood; his father's fundamentalist views were anathema, and left him with what Grimley calls "an enduring hatred of protestant fanaticism".[3]
    • This is also a bit perplexing. How did he manage to have this ambition at seven or even ten, when his father remarried? How did he come to know about Anglican priesthood presumably in a closed, not to mention doubting, family universe? Or is it a later early age?
  • In 1873 Thomas Henson remarried;[n 1] Emma Parker, widow of a Lutheran pastor, ensured that the children were properly educated. In Henson's phrase, "she recreated the home".[6]
    • Simple and eloquent.
  • She secured Henson access to his father's extensive library, and introduced him to the works of Walter Scott and translations of classical authors, helping to form his literary style.
    • This is perplexing again. We know nothing thus far about the father's library, let alone an extensive one. Do the sources say which books of Scott (e.g. Ivanhoe, a perennial favorite, at least in the 19th-century?) or which translations (e.g. Dryden's of Virgil and others?) HHH found memorable? Presumably, the translator's style would have affected the imbibed one.
      • I've deleted "his father's extensive library", which I think was my misreading of the sources. Thomas, we know, read religious publications, and had originally been an Anglican and may have owned religious works left over from his Anglican days, but again, I'm merely guessing and the sources don't say. The Scott novels were brought to the household by HH's stepmother, "along with translations of Thucydides and Plutarch. It was a curiously mixed bag, but I absorbed it with avidity". Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Non-FAC remark: Unlike Creighton, born in 1843, who had both Greek and Latin at Carlisle Grammar School (for why else would his fellow students have nicknamed him "Homer?"), HHH, born in 1863, had neither. He certainly would have had Latin, were it not for an oppressive father.
  • He remained devoted to her – he called her Carissima – and once he was an adult he cared for her until her death in 1924.[3][7]
    • Nice.
      • Indeed, but I am unsure whether to offer a translation and risk spoiling the effect: "He remained devoted to her – he called her Carissima (dearest)…" My conclusion is that it is too clunky to add the translation, but I'd welcome a second opinion. – Tim riley talk 08:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
        • I agree. A translation is not needed. Google brings up the meaning immediately. If there is a clamor for it at FAC, you could footnote it, but no more. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:35, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
          • I appreciate your detailed replies. PS I just realized that I created this page in user space not user talk space; as a result, it might not have many of the tools of talk space. I might transfer it to talk space if it makes it easier, but will let you know. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:35, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply

I don't mind where you post your comments as long as you keep then coming. At least two of your suggestions above rank as Eureka moments to me. Tim riley talk 12:57, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Thank you. Will do. I just read Chadwick's chapter on Henson's childhood. It was written 40 years ago. Chadwick, who held the chair of ecclesiastical history at Cambridge—whose inaugural occupant was Mandell Creighton—and later the Regius Professorship—was very likely on the top of the heap in his field, Perhaps this gave him the confidence to write in a style, at once skimming the trees and delving deep, expansive and literary, impressionistic and detailed—that makes it enjoyable reading, but that perhaps most historians today would not attempt and many scholarly publishers might not accept. It will need quite a few more readings, at least for me, than one. Henson had a complicated childhood. His father had a complicated childhood. Henson was precocious—perhaps not to the extent of a Kipling or a Macaulay, but would not have been far behind in a supportive family environment. It seems even before the arrival of Emma Parker, Henson had been reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs, Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress, and soon after, came to like Paradise Lost in his father's library. With those sorts of literary antecedents, at least for an English style, one could ask: who needs Walter Scott or the translated classics? So, all in all, I think Henson's childhood, being complicated and potentially of various interpretations, is probably best not probed deeper than it is in your excellent section. I'll move on to his Broadstairs years next. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:37, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Upon a second reading of Chadwick, ch 1, perhaps a couple of factual things could be added. Do you think there would be more context if the second sentence were replaced by some version of, "Thomas Henson was raised in a farming family in Morebath, south of Exmoor. As a young man, he had quarreled with his father and left home to go into business in London. By 1865, when Hensley was two years old, Thomas had prospered enough to purchase a property in Broadstairs on the Kent coast, to retire there at age 53 and devote himself to gardening and religion?"
  • Immediately after Martha's death, might the following sentence citing Chadwick be better than the one in place citing Grimley? "The older three boys having already left home, the gloom that befell the house, the drudgery that was experienced by the two daughters, especially the younger in running a household of five children, and Thomas's drift into ever narrower religious beliefs "together made a childhood purgatory worthy of the pen of a Dickens or a Bronte," in the words of historian Owen Chadwick.
  • Is it worth changing "From an early age the young Henson was a dedicated Christian and felt a vocation for the Anglican priesthood; his father's fundamentalist views were anathema, and left him with what Grimley calls "an enduring hatred of protestant fanaticism".[3]" to "The young Henson became a dedicated ... protestant fanaticism." but adding the following sentences before:
    • "Hensley Hensen was taught by his father to detest slavery. The first novel that moved him was Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin.<Chadwick, p.3> Thomas Henson also forbade his children to go to school, play with other children, or go on holidays. Deprived of everything except religion, his family, and his father's library, Hensely "escaped into the library. At an early age he became the voracious reader of the family."<Chadwick, p. 4> According to Chadwick, among the books in the library customarily read by children in those days were John Foxe's Book of Martyrs and John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. Hensely also came to love John Milton's Paradise Lost.<Chadwick, p. 5> Displaying precocity, and having no recourse to other boys' books, he began to devour the mature writings in theology, including the eccentric ones. "By the age of fourteen this prodigious boy had read," in the words of Chadwick, "as deeply in divinity as many young men when they take holy orders."<Chadwick, p. 5> Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
      • I suspect, the rebellion against the father probably came in the early teenage years. There was very likely an adaptive phase that preceded it. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC) reply
        • Chadwick seems to corroborate this, but placing it even later: By the time he was in his late teens and thinking for himself, he regarded sectarian evangelical religion as a monstrous evil to be fought with every claw. He had horror of the Plymouth Brethren – poisonous schismatics he once called them, several times by other opprobrious names, and never with tolerance. He had horror of over-emotional evangelical preachers, the missionaries of the later nineteenth century, the Baptist Noels of his childhood, the itinerant assailants of the brittle hearts of youth.<Chadwick, p. 7>
  • "He rose to be head boy of the school, but after a dispute with the headmaster during which Henson expressed "with more passion than respect"[13] his opinion of the head, he ran away from the school in 1879.[13]"
    • I wonder if we can call it running away. Would be more accurate to paraphrase Chadwick here in some fashion? E.g. : When Thomas Henson moved from Broadstairs to Pegwell Bay in 1879, Hensley became a boarder at Broadstairs Collegiate School. He was soon appointed head boy, but not for long. An incident occurred in the dormitory involving a misdemeanor. Henson, when asked by the Head, identified the misdemeanor but not the culprits, leading him to be accused of lying. Touched to the quick, he spoke intemperately to the Head in a confrontation before the whole school. That night, Henson wrote a letter to the Head, scaled the school wall, and walked the five miles back to the new Henson family home in Pegwell Bay, never returning to any school thereafter.<Chadwick, pp. 11–12> Fowler&fowler «Talk» 02:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: I've just taken a look at the Early Years section of Hensley Henson. It is already on the longish side. Last night I was tired. So, if any of the suggestions above are accepted, they'll need to be reduced quite a bit.
  • (HH cont.) "That apart, he found he derived little educational benefit, having already educated himself widely and deeply from books in his father's library."
    • Nice.
  • "Thomas Henson was against the idea, partly because his financial means had declined, but was talked round by his wife and gave his consent."

All Souls

  • No complaints here. Two standout sentences, especially the second. are: Aware that his quick tongue could lead him into indiscretion, he adopted and maintained all his life the practice of writing out his lectures and sermons in full beforehand rather than improvising or speaking from concise notes.[22] He preferred a quill pen, and wrote in a fine clear hand; he considered illegible writing to be a form of bad manners as tiresome as inaudible talking.
  • PS I just remembered: in the previous section do you think St Catherine's College, Oxford#History might serve us better as the wikilink for "unattached student?" Otherwise, I'm done with this section too. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC) reply
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