This is a user page to collect details on the use names by English-language sources to use for maintaining or changing the naming of articles related to Wales.
Relevant policies: WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:WIAN
Note: Do not use primacy as an argument, name changes must not include the old name.
I do not have a personal agenda towards these, and tbh would personally oppose some in real life, preferring existing or other names, but value consensus, would ignore my personal preferences and open to change, so willing to raise discussions.
I will raise discussions on the most controversial moves on the more popular pages, but will now avoid discussion-first approaches on other pages, due to slow discussions and non-policy opposition.
Use of any name on Welsh Wikipedia (Wicipedia) will NOT be considered here as the sole argument or sole version, following the lack of reasoning/discussion and the potentially agenda-based editing there for the "best" Welsh name. [i] Each name here would go down the long route. [ii]
See User:DankJae/Wales-related names/Other for my efforts in responding to the list of standardised Welsh place-names and List of standardised Welsh lake names in Snowdonia.
The following would be used to quickly identify whether a name change has a strong case:
This is not exclusive, however, if a case passes one above, it would be prioritised and highly likely. All other cases would still go under the slower more in-depth process.
Wikipedia Guidance
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List of indicators by importance:
Search engine useSee also: Wikipedia:Google searches and numbers Search engine tests should be used with care: in testing whether a name is widely accepted English usage, we are interested in hits which are in English, represent English usage, mean the place in question, and are not duplicates of each other or of Wikipedia. Search engine results can fail on all of these. Google may give unreliable estimates at the onset of a search; it is often preferable to restrict the competing searches to less than 1000 hits, and examine the number of hits on the final page. Google does not return more than 1,000 actual results; hit counts above this are estimates which cannot readily be examined, and are imperfect evidence of actual usage. Adding additional search terms may reduce the number of hits to this range, but adds additional random variance.
Some of these problems will be lessened if the search includes an English word, like "city" or "river", as well as the placename. (If this is done with one proposed placename, it must of course be done for all competing proposals.) Another approach is to examine the first few pages of hits, and see what proportion of them are false hits. But the only certain control is to count how many hits are genuinely in English, assert English usage, and deal with the place discussed. Another useful idea, especially when one name seems to be used often in the construct "X (also called Y)" in sources that consistently use X thereafter, is to search for "and X" against "and Y" (or "in X" versus "in Y") to see which is common in running prose. List of sources for Geographical namesUsing a list rather than a table to make it easier to edit and organise. Parameters to remember where needed, "word" (use quotation marks), -Wikipedia, -non-independent sources, date range (if needed), language (if possible), -cymraeg (if possible; and does not exclude English results with may have cymraeg on their pages as a link).
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Template
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Sources for more controversial geographical names
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Long-standing names, for example place-names, with a lot of colloquial use outside of standard secondary sources would require a more indepth analysis into common use. As it has no official or formal name, common use of all types of sources must be considered, as well as long-standing sources, rather than specifically recent.
Others depending on name. Others depending on name.
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Template for formal names
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Formal bodies, for example organisations, have less colloquial use and therefore more dependent on current reliable sources to investigate common use. They also have clearer official names and branding therefore much more susceptible to name changes.
Review period dates (usually 1 year) Sources using current name: Sources using other combination: Sources using new/alternative name: Other uses: Other stats: |
Permanently delay entries based only on its use by the
list of standardised Welsh place-names of the
Welsh Language Commissioner. These are merely recommendations as of now. Although they’ll be considered if the recommended form had some use before.
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---|
|
Notes
For change in English names, associated with Wales:
For changes to Welsh names which may not be supported by sources or policy. If the English name passes, a RM will be requested, if the current name passes it will remain unchanged. Common Name used whether English or Welsh-originating will be respected.
Review period: October 2022 – January 2024 (~15 months)
Note: avoid "Gwynedd council" as it is a descriptor using a lower case "c" for council.
Sources using current name, Gwynedd Council: UK Gov Cambrian News [2] North Wales Chronicle [3] WalesOnline Daily Post [4] [5] BBC
Sources using new name, Cyngor Gwynedd:
Other: Herald Wales (both) North Wales Chronicle (both)
Initial indicators:
Review period dates (usually 1 year; 2023)
Sources using current name:
South Wales Guardian Britainsrivers.com Llandovery Angling Nation.Cymru ITV WalesOnline [6] [7] Herald.Wales BBC Metro
Sources using other combination: Visit Wales (Tywi first, also Towy)
Sources using new/alternative name: BBC [8] [9] South Wales Guardian
Other uses: Natural Resouces Wales (mixed) AberdareOnline (Afon Tywi)
Other stats:
List of sources to consider:
Others depending on name.
Others depending on name.
To enforce standard practice, searching for use of alternative names, clearly not the common name (yet). The situation would be reversed, implenting these names if a RM is successful. Per MOS:GEO we should use the article's title if referring directly to the subject, except in certain contexts such as historical.
This is a user page to collect details on the use names by English-language sources to use for maintaining or changing the naming of articles related to Wales.
Relevant policies: WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:WIAN
Note: Do not use primacy as an argument, name changes must not include the old name.
I do not have a personal agenda towards these, and tbh would personally oppose some in real life, preferring existing or other names, but value consensus, would ignore my personal preferences and open to change, so willing to raise discussions.
I will raise discussions on the most controversial moves on the more popular pages, but will now avoid discussion-first approaches on other pages, due to slow discussions and non-policy opposition.
Use of any name on Welsh Wikipedia (Wicipedia) will NOT be considered here as the sole argument or sole version, following the lack of reasoning/discussion and the potentially agenda-based editing there for the "best" Welsh name. [i] Each name here would go down the long route. [ii]
See User:DankJae/Wales-related names/Other for my efforts in responding to the list of standardised Welsh place-names and List of standardised Welsh lake names in Snowdonia.
The following would be used to quickly identify whether a name change has a strong case:
This is not exclusive, however, if a case passes one above, it would be prioritised and highly likely. All other cases would still go under the slower more in-depth process.
Wikipedia Guidance
|
---|
List of indicators by importance:
Search engine useSee also: Wikipedia:Google searches and numbers Search engine tests should be used with care: in testing whether a name is widely accepted English usage, we are interested in hits which are in English, represent English usage, mean the place in question, and are not duplicates of each other or of Wikipedia. Search engine results can fail on all of these. Google may give unreliable estimates at the onset of a search; it is often preferable to restrict the competing searches to less than 1000 hits, and examine the number of hits on the final page. Google does not return more than 1,000 actual results; hit counts above this are estimates which cannot readily be examined, and are imperfect evidence of actual usage. Adding additional search terms may reduce the number of hits to this range, but adds additional random variance.
Some of these problems will be lessened if the search includes an English word, like "city" or "river", as well as the placename. (If this is done with one proposed placename, it must of course be done for all competing proposals.) Another approach is to examine the first few pages of hits, and see what proportion of them are false hits. But the only certain control is to count how many hits are genuinely in English, assert English usage, and deal with the place discussed. Another useful idea, especially when one name seems to be used often in the construct "X (also called Y)" in sources that consistently use X thereafter, is to search for "and X" against "and Y" (or "in X" versus "in Y") to see which is common in running prose. List of sources for Geographical namesUsing a list rather than a table to make it easier to edit and organise. Parameters to remember where needed, "word" (use quotation marks), -Wikipedia, -non-independent sources, date range (if needed), language (if possible), -cymraeg (if possible; and does not exclude English results with may have cymraeg on their pages as a link).
|
Template
|
---|
|
Sources for more controversial geographical names
|
---|
Long-standing names, for example place-names, with a lot of colloquial use outside of standard secondary sources would require a more indepth analysis into common use. As it has no official or formal name, common use of all types of sources must be considered, as well as long-standing sources, rather than specifically recent.
Others depending on name. Others depending on name.
|
Template for formal names
|
---|
Formal bodies, for example organisations, have less colloquial use and therefore more dependent on current reliable sources to investigate common use. They also have clearer official names and branding therefore much more susceptible to name changes.
Review period dates (usually 1 year) Sources using current name: Sources using other combination: Sources using new/alternative name: Other uses: Other stats: |
Permanently delay entries based only on its use by the
list of standardised Welsh place-names of the
Welsh Language Commissioner. These are merely recommendations as of now. Although they’ll be considered if the recommended form had some use before.
|
---|
|
Notes
For change in English names, associated with Wales:
For changes to Welsh names which may not be supported by sources or policy. If the English name passes, a RM will be requested, if the current name passes it will remain unchanged. Common Name used whether English or Welsh-originating will be respected.
Review period: October 2022 – January 2024 (~15 months)
Note: avoid "Gwynedd council" as it is a descriptor using a lower case "c" for council.
Sources using current name, Gwynedd Council: UK Gov Cambrian News [2] North Wales Chronicle [3] WalesOnline Daily Post [4] [5] BBC
Sources using new name, Cyngor Gwynedd:
Other: Herald Wales (both) North Wales Chronicle (both)
Initial indicators:
Review period dates (usually 1 year; 2023)
Sources using current name:
South Wales Guardian Britainsrivers.com Llandovery Angling Nation.Cymru ITV WalesOnline [6] [7] Herald.Wales BBC Metro
Sources using other combination: Visit Wales (Tywi first, also Towy)
Sources using new/alternative name: BBC [8] [9] South Wales Guardian
Other uses: Natural Resouces Wales (mixed) AberdareOnline (Afon Tywi)
Other stats:
List of sources to consider:
Others depending on name.
Others depending on name.
To enforce standard practice, searching for use of alternative names, clearly not the common name (yet). The situation would be reversed, implenting these names if a RM is successful. Per MOS:GEO we should use the article's title if referring directly to the subject, except in certain contexts such as historical.