This is a summary of the conflict between SummerFR and myself over the Jeb Bush article. I believe that at all times I displayed civility in my actions while aiming for a comprehensive and neutral article on the Floridian governor. I worked hard to not bite the newbie, and went out of my way to explain every action that I was taking, with references to the Wikipedia policies to back myself up.
Basis of the original dispute:
In addition to those original concerns, I have additional concerns at this point about SummerFR's lack of common courtesy throughout the dispute, accusing me of harrassing her while writing vicious comments about me around Wikipedia. ( [1], among other places)
Instead of trying to work together on the article, SummerFR seems to view any edits of Jeb Bush as interference and attempts to talk with her as harrassment. If any user has suggestions on how I could have better handled this situation, please let me know on this page's talk page.
Thank you.
First edits on Jeb Bush, dialog on Talk:Jeb Bush, dialog on User talk:BaronLarf and User talk:SummerFR
I came upon the Jeb Bush article on April 23, 2005. I noticed some serious POV problems, as well as sections that needed to be formatted to conform to the WP:MoS. I editted the pages [2] [3]. While I have a basic knowledge of who Jeb Bush is, I am not familiar enough with his critics to even out the article. I therefore posted on the talk page that the article needed some NPOV'ing [4] . At this point I also tried to gently point out that SummerFR had been doing hundreds of little edits on the page in the last few days, and suggested that she try using the preview button more so that the history wasn't clogged up, etc.
When I looked at the pictures on the page, I realized that many of them were of low quality and also seemed to have been taken straight from the [5] webpage. I knew that this probably wasn't a good thing, so I mentioned it on the talk page [6].
At this point, SummerFR undid many of the revisions that I had just made on the page, so I manually went through the article and put back many of the wikifications. A quick glance at the history showed that SummerFr had editted the page 14 more times in the last hour, but I reverted only the last 5, which had undone my wikifications. In the comment, I directed her to reply on the article's talk page if he had any problems with the edits so we could discuss it. I also left a message on her talk page letting him know what I had done. [7]
SummerFR replied to reference her talk page, saying basically that someone else had already worked on the format, the photo issue had been resolved, and that I should look at her talk page for more information. [8] I replied by coping over a comment that had been made on her talk page by FreplySpang requesting information about the photographs, but that I could not see any resolution to the issue. I listed the photographs in question. [9]
In 22 subsequent edits over the next five hours, SummerFR made many additions to the article, in addition to undoing many of my changes to the wikification of the first two sections. [10] I then manually went through and re-wikified the first two sections of the article again, referring in my comment to see the talk page. [11] This was not a revert, as I did not undo any of the editions she had made to the article. I then commented on the talk page, providing links to different wikipedia style guides showing why I had done what I had done. [12] I also tried to let her know that we were not trying to impede his progress, only trying to work towards a quality article.
An hour later, SummerFR undid many of my changes again. [13] At this point, I stopped making any edits of the Jeb Bush page, since I could see it was descending into an edit war. (The only change that I ever made to the article again was a minor wikification of a word in a caption fifteen hours later. [14])
SummerFR then left me a message on my talk page accusing me of breaking the three reverts rule and instructing me to stop editing the page, saying that it was annoying her. [15] I replied to her that I had not broken the 3-revert rule, and gave her a link to a description of the rule. [16]
I could tell that I was getting mad, so I took a break from anything having to do with the page for the day.
I did not want to stifle SummerFR's enthusiasm, but I wanted to get some more people onto the article to have a look at it. Since she was a new user, I was trying to take pains not to alienate her, so I did not take the page to RfC yet. So, the next day, I left messages on the talk pages of several editors who had been involved in the article in the past, seeking their input.
On the Jeb Bush talk page, SummerFR had requested that FreplySpang and I detail exactly which parts of the article we had NPOV problems with. [23] I replied that my problem wasn't with any one section, but rather the tone in general. I listed a few phrases, though, as requested. I tried to be as courteous as possible, reiterating that I was not trying to pester him, only help form a quality article. I even apologized for waiting to reply till the next day. [24]
SummerFR replied on the talk page accusing me of not paying attention to his arguments, saying that I must just not approve of Jeb Bush as a subject, and asking me what my problem with Republican articles was.[ [25]
I replied to SummerFR requesting that she calm down, and attempting to answer all of her concerns. I echoed what FreplySpang had written on his talk page, recommending that she write the article on her user space and post it when she was finished if she didn't want her editting interrupted. [26]
At this point, I submitted the article for peer review ([ [27]]. In retrospect, this was a bad decision. I knew that the point of the page was for pages that were trying to reach feature-article status (which I know Jeb Bush could), but I had thought that this would be a good place to get outside review. Now I realize that the dispute had gotten too big for this page, plus the article is not far enough to go there.
SummerFR disagreed with the Peer Review listing, writing on the Peer Review page that I had been harassing her, among other things. [28] At this point I wanted to remove the peer review listing, but I was afraid that if I did so, I would be accused of trying to silence her or something along those lines. (I later removed the peer review listing after being requested to by Bishonen.)
SummerFR listed the page on WP:LCI, including the statement "some people here at wikipedia do not want him to receive any credit for any of his achievements." [29] After I removed his statement and alphabetized it,[ [30] SummerFR then wrote on that page "there are some people here who don't want anyone to know anything about any one of the many accomplishments of JEB BUSH, so they constantly harass me, and have already once edited out the reason I am posting this topic here." The comments on his edit were "reason I posted JEB BUSH here now restored, after being vandalized and edited out."( [31])
I feel that this is a real breach of wikiquette, if not something worse, but I don't want to get into an edit war, so I will let someone else choose what to do about this listing.
I listed the article on WP:RfC, giving what I believe was a neutral statement on what the concerns were. [32]
SummerFR then added to my listing the following: "NON-STOP HARASSMENT BY THE PERSON WHO POSTED THE PREVIOUS." [33]
Although I believe this was a breach of wikiquette, if nothing else, I let it stand for someone else to remove to keep an edit war from forming. Eventually Bishonen did remove SummerFR's additions.
I again attempted to talk to SummerFR on his talk page, telling her that his comments on the other pages were not necessary, and we should keep our dispute to the talk pages. [34] Se replied "Leave me alone." [35]
SummerFR copied all of her posts from the Peer Review page onto the Jeb Bush talk page, writing on the comments "More harassment by BaronLarf". [36]
I replied on the Jeb Bush talk page that I was unsure how I was harassing anyone, reiterating why I was concerned about the photos and that her email did not need to be posted again, and informing her that I had listed the page on RfC. [37]
SummerFR replied on the Jeb Bush talk page "Leave me alone." [38]
The next day, SummerFR attempted to open up an arbitration hearing on me. [39].
She informed me on my talk page, stating "I am leaving this message to notify you, as required by the artbitration rules, that I have asked for arbitration in this matter concerniing your harasssment of me re the JEB BUSH article. Please do not write me back. Thank you." [40]
I visited the RfC page and could tell that the request was improperly formatted, but I wasn't about to help someone in their attempt to open arbitration against me. I knew that I needed to show I had received notice, so I replied on my own talk page. [41]
I apologize for the length; SummerFR has leveled many accusations, and I'm trying to cover all of them, even though none of hers are accompanied by evidence.
Some of these actions just are against Wikiquette, while others are more serious. Here they are, in no particular order.
Responding to a request from me [60] for the names of people I could ask for help on this issue
Responding to SummerFR on the Jeb Bush talk page
On my talk page
On the Jeb Bush talk page
This is a summary of the conflict between SummerFR and myself over the Jeb Bush article. I believe that at all times I displayed civility in my actions while aiming for a comprehensive and neutral article on the Floridian governor. I worked hard to not bite the newbie, and went out of my way to explain every action that I was taking, with references to the Wikipedia policies to back myself up.
Basis of the original dispute:
In addition to those original concerns, I have additional concerns at this point about SummerFR's lack of common courtesy throughout the dispute, accusing me of harrassing her while writing vicious comments about me around Wikipedia. ( [1], among other places)
Instead of trying to work together on the article, SummerFR seems to view any edits of Jeb Bush as interference and attempts to talk with her as harrassment. If any user has suggestions on how I could have better handled this situation, please let me know on this page's talk page.
Thank you.
First edits on Jeb Bush, dialog on Talk:Jeb Bush, dialog on User talk:BaronLarf and User talk:SummerFR
I came upon the Jeb Bush article on April 23, 2005. I noticed some serious POV problems, as well as sections that needed to be formatted to conform to the WP:MoS. I editted the pages [2] [3]. While I have a basic knowledge of who Jeb Bush is, I am not familiar enough with his critics to even out the article. I therefore posted on the talk page that the article needed some NPOV'ing [4] . At this point I also tried to gently point out that SummerFR had been doing hundreds of little edits on the page in the last few days, and suggested that she try using the preview button more so that the history wasn't clogged up, etc.
When I looked at the pictures on the page, I realized that many of them were of low quality and also seemed to have been taken straight from the [5] webpage. I knew that this probably wasn't a good thing, so I mentioned it on the talk page [6].
At this point, SummerFR undid many of the revisions that I had just made on the page, so I manually went through the article and put back many of the wikifications. A quick glance at the history showed that SummerFr had editted the page 14 more times in the last hour, but I reverted only the last 5, which had undone my wikifications. In the comment, I directed her to reply on the article's talk page if he had any problems with the edits so we could discuss it. I also left a message on her talk page letting him know what I had done. [7]
SummerFR replied to reference her talk page, saying basically that someone else had already worked on the format, the photo issue had been resolved, and that I should look at her talk page for more information. [8] I replied by coping over a comment that had been made on her talk page by FreplySpang requesting information about the photographs, but that I could not see any resolution to the issue. I listed the photographs in question. [9]
In 22 subsequent edits over the next five hours, SummerFR made many additions to the article, in addition to undoing many of my changes to the wikification of the first two sections. [10] I then manually went through and re-wikified the first two sections of the article again, referring in my comment to see the talk page. [11] This was not a revert, as I did not undo any of the editions she had made to the article. I then commented on the talk page, providing links to different wikipedia style guides showing why I had done what I had done. [12] I also tried to let her know that we were not trying to impede his progress, only trying to work towards a quality article.
An hour later, SummerFR undid many of my changes again. [13] At this point, I stopped making any edits of the Jeb Bush page, since I could see it was descending into an edit war. (The only change that I ever made to the article again was a minor wikification of a word in a caption fifteen hours later. [14])
SummerFR then left me a message on my talk page accusing me of breaking the three reverts rule and instructing me to stop editing the page, saying that it was annoying her. [15] I replied to her that I had not broken the 3-revert rule, and gave her a link to a description of the rule. [16]
I could tell that I was getting mad, so I took a break from anything having to do with the page for the day.
I did not want to stifle SummerFR's enthusiasm, but I wanted to get some more people onto the article to have a look at it. Since she was a new user, I was trying to take pains not to alienate her, so I did not take the page to RfC yet. So, the next day, I left messages on the talk pages of several editors who had been involved in the article in the past, seeking their input.
On the Jeb Bush talk page, SummerFR had requested that FreplySpang and I detail exactly which parts of the article we had NPOV problems with. [23] I replied that my problem wasn't with any one section, but rather the tone in general. I listed a few phrases, though, as requested. I tried to be as courteous as possible, reiterating that I was not trying to pester him, only help form a quality article. I even apologized for waiting to reply till the next day. [24]
SummerFR replied on the talk page accusing me of not paying attention to his arguments, saying that I must just not approve of Jeb Bush as a subject, and asking me what my problem with Republican articles was.[ [25]
I replied to SummerFR requesting that she calm down, and attempting to answer all of her concerns. I echoed what FreplySpang had written on his talk page, recommending that she write the article on her user space and post it when she was finished if she didn't want her editting interrupted. [26]
At this point, I submitted the article for peer review ([ [27]]. In retrospect, this was a bad decision. I knew that the point of the page was for pages that were trying to reach feature-article status (which I know Jeb Bush could), but I had thought that this would be a good place to get outside review. Now I realize that the dispute had gotten too big for this page, plus the article is not far enough to go there.
SummerFR disagreed with the Peer Review listing, writing on the Peer Review page that I had been harassing her, among other things. [28] At this point I wanted to remove the peer review listing, but I was afraid that if I did so, I would be accused of trying to silence her or something along those lines. (I later removed the peer review listing after being requested to by Bishonen.)
SummerFR listed the page on WP:LCI, including the statement "some people here at wikipedia do not want him to receive any credit for any of his achievements." [29] After I removed his statement and alphabetized it,[ [30] SummerFR then wrote on that page "there are some people here who don't want anyone to know anything about any one of the many accomplishments of JEB BUSH, so they constantly harass me, and have already once edited out the reason I am posting this topic here." The comments on his edit were "reason I posted JEB BUSH here now restored, after being vandalized and edited out."( [31])
I feel that this is a real breach of wikiquette, if not something worse, but I don't want to get into an edit war, so I will let someone else choose what to do about this listing.
I listed the article on WP:RfC, giving what I believe was a neutral statement on what the concerns were. [32]
SummerFR then added to my listing the following: "NON-STOP HARASSMENT BY THE PERSON WHO POSTED THE PREVIOUS." [33]
Although I believe this was a breach of wikiquette, if nothing else, I let it stand for someone else to remove to keep an edit war from forming. Eventually Bishonen did remove SummerFR's additions.
I again attempted to talk to SummerFR on his talk page, telling her that his comments on the other pages were not necessary, and we should keep our dispute to the talk pages. [34] Se replied "Leave me alone." [35]
SummerFR copied all of her posts from the Peer Review page onto the Jeb Bush talk page, writing on the comments "More harassment by BaronLarf". [36]
I replied on the Jeb Bush talk page that I was unsure how I was harassing anyone, reiterating why I was concerned about the photos and that her email did not need to be posted again, and informing her that I had listed the page on RfC. [37]
SummerFR replied on the Jeb Bush talk page "Leave me alone." [38]
The next day, SummerFR attempted to open up an arbitration hearing on me. [39].
She informed me on my talk page, stating "I am leaving this message to notify you, as required by the artbitration rules, that I have asked for arbitration in this matter concerniing your harasssment of me re the JEB BUSH article. Please do not write me back. Thank you." [40]
I visited the RfC page and could tell that the request was improperly formatted, but I wasn't about to help someone in their attempt to open arbitration against me. I knew that I needed to show I had received notice, so I replied on my own talk page. [41]
I apologize for the length; SummerFR has leveled many accusations, and I'm trying to cover all of them, even though none of hers are accompanied by evidence.
Some of these actions just are against Wikiquette, while others are more serious. Here they are, in no particular order.
Responding to a request from me [60] for the names of people I could ask for help on this issue
Responding to SummerFR on the Jeb Bush talk page
On my talk page
On the Jeb Bush talk page