United States: Governors Template‑class | ||||||||||
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Politics Template‑class | |||||||
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OK this needs work: There are states with NO Lieutenants Governors which have Senate Presidents listed here. This template should be for one (LGs) or the other (1st in lines), not a mixture-with-preference. 68.39.174.238 02:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Just looking at the list, I don't understand how the numbers "Republican 22 · Democratic 24 · Covenant 1 · PPD 1" were arrived at. And I contributed to this problem myself! But it looks like this partisan breakdown originally encompassed only those people with the title Lieutenant Governor, not including secretaries of state or presidents of the senate. This is getting confusing. Maybe the partisan breakdown line should be removed? Awbeal ( talk) 13:46, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
What do the italicized names represent? There's nothing to tell the reader... -- Jfruh ( talk) 14:59, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I believe that this template, which is titled Current U.S. Lieutenant Governors, should include only Lieutentant Governors. Inclusion of persons holding other offices, such as state Secretaries of State, is not justified, simply because Secretaries of State are not Lieutenant Governors. The fact that some Secretaries of State hold similar (even nearly identical, in some cases) duties as do Lt. Govs, does not justify their inclusion here. Most states have both and LG and an SOS, inclusion of some SOS's here just makes the whole issue confusing, and could understandably cause someone to think that the two offices are simply different names for the same thing, which they are not (Utah, perhaps, excepted). The SOS template does not include LGs, despite the similarity (in some states, certainly not all) of these positions, neither should the LG template.
Additionally, justification of the inclusion of non-LGs based upon their ostensible similarity is an evaluative decision constituting original research, and is therefore not within the competence of Wikipedia.
I would support, if someone cared to do it, the creation of a separate template indicating next-in-line for succession. Within such a template some SOS's could be included without violating OR. But here it is not appropriate, in my opinion. Un sch ool 06:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I think we've cleared the air of the misunderstandings now, and I appreciate that. What I would really like is some input on this from others; I really feel that the current version of the template is unwise. The problem is, how to get input? This is not exactly the kind of talk page that draws a lot of attention. WP:CANVASS seems to limit us greatly; even if we were to contact only those who have previously edited here, it would be problematic, because they would likely be predisposed to the status quo. I would really like to get some fresh, unbiased opinion in here. Any suggestions? Un sch ool 03:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the entry for NY to reflect Richard Ravitch, not because I believe the legal wrangling is over or that there won't be a change, but because the most recent ruling specifically states that Ravitch would take over for Paterson if necessary. [1] [2] Still, I left the note about it being disputed, with a link to 2009 New York State Senate leadership crisis#Appointment of a Lieutenant Governor. Frank | talk 17:39, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't think this edit is particularly helpful or useful, especially since there are ten cases that would have to be so marked, most of them instances in which some other officeholder is executing Lt Governor duties. My removal of the edit was reverted without comment. Powers T 14:12, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Throughout several discussions about this template, statements have been made that lieutenant governors have nothing in common but their title and that they never meet. Actually, both statements are erroneous.
After hearing a local radio interview from the Puerto Rico official that exercises the role, but not the official title, of lieutenant governor, Secretary of State McClintock, I've come to understand that, not only do they meet several times a year, but they've had an organization for decades to facilitate communication among them, the National Lieutenant Governors Association or NLGA.
The organization's members not only includes state lieutenant governors but also lt. govs. from the US territories as well as the three secretaries of state---OR, PR and WY---who serve the role of lt. govs., that is first-in-line of gubernatorial succession. The organization has at its members not only those who accede to the powers of the governorship when the Governor is out of state but also those who only accede to those powers when the Governor is incapacitated, removed from office or dies. That should lay to rest about half of the controversies debated in this discussion page! Pr4ever ( talk) 02:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
United States: Governors Template‑class | ||||||||||
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Politics Template‑class | |||||||
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OK this needs work: There are states with NO Lieutenants Governors which have Senate Presidents listed here. This template should be for one (LGs) or the other (1st in lines), not a mixture-with-preference. 68.39.174.238 02:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Just looking at the list, I don't understand how the numbers "Republican 22 · Democratic 24 · Covenant 1 · PPD 1" were arrived at. And I contributed to this problem myself! But it looks like this partisan breakdown originally encompassed only those people with the title Lieutenant Governor, not including secretaries of state or presidents of the senate. This is getting confusing. Maybe the partisan breakdown line should be removed? Awbeal ( talk) 13:46, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
What do the italicized names represent? There's nothing to tell the reader... -- Jfruh ( talk) 14:59, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I believe that this template, which is titled Current U.S. Lieutenant Governors, should include only Lieutentant Governors. Inclusion of persons holding other offices, such as state Secretaries of State, is not justified, simply because Secretaries of State are not Lieutenant Governors. The fact that some Secretaries of State hold similar (even nearly identical, in some cases) duties as do Lt. Govs, does not justify their inclusion here. Most states have both and LG and an SOS, inclusion of some SOS's here just makes the whole issue confusing, and could understandably cause someone to think that the two offices are simply different names for the same thing, which they are not (Utah, perhaps, excepted). The SOS template does not include LGs, despite the similarity (in some states, certainly not all) of these positions, neither should the LG template.
Additionally, justification of the inclusion of non-LGs based upon their ostensible similarity is an evaluative decision constituting original research, and is therefore not within the competence of Wikipedia.
I would support, if someone cared to do it, the creation of a separate template indicating next-in-line for succession. Within such a template some SOS's could be included without violating OR. But here it is not appropriate, in my opinion. Un sch ool 06:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I think we've cleared the air of the misunderstandings now, and I appreciate that. What I would really like is some input on this from others; I really feel that the current version of the template is unwise. The problem is, how to get input? This is not exactly the kind of talk page that draws a lot of attention. WP:CANVASS seems to limit us greatly; even if we were to contact only those who have previously edited here, it would be problematic, because they would likely be predisposed to the status quo. I would really like to get some fresh, unbiased opinion in here. Any suggestions? Un sch ool 03:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the entry for NY to reflect Richard Ravitch, not because I believe the legal wrangling is over or that there won't be a change, but because the most recent ruling specifically states that Ravitch would take over for Paterson if necessary. [1] [2] Still, I left the note about it being disputed, with a link to 2009 New York State Senate leadership crisis#Appointment of a Lieutenant Governor. Frank | talk 17:39, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't think this edit is particularly helpful or useful, especially since there are ten cases that would have to be so marked, most of them instances in which some other officeholder is executing Lt Governor duties. My removal of the edit was reverted without comment. Powers T 14:12, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Throughout several discussions about this template, statements have been made that lieutenant governors have nothing in common but their title and that they never meet. Actually, both statements are erroneous.
After hearing a local radio interview from the Puerto Rico official that exercises the role, but not the official title, of lieutenant governor, Secretary of State McClintock, I've come to understand that, not only do they meet several times a year, but they've had an organization for decades to facilitate communication among them, the National Lieutenant Governors Association or NLGA.
The organization's members not only includes state lieutenant governors but also lt. govs. from the US territories as well as the three secretaries of state---OR, PR and WY---who serve the role of lt. govs., that is first-in-line of gubernatorial succession. The organization has at its members not only those who accede to the powers of the governorship when the Governor is out of state but also those who only accede to those powers when the Governor is incapacitated, removed from office or dies. That should lay to rest about half of the controversies debated in this discussion page! Pr4ever ( talk) 02:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC)