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Nipsonanomhmata's POV campaign of getting the pre-1896 Zappas Olympics treated as a full part of the Olympic Games has been debated to death at Talk:Olympic Games and has been rejected by unanimous consensus. For him to still keep pushing that same meme on multiple pages [1] after it was rejected on the main article is patently disruptive. This template is about the Summer Olympics, which is a clearly defined institution that began in 1896. The pre-1896 games, even though they bore the same name, were a different thing and are unanimously not treated as part of the same institution by all the relevant literature.
I will remove the two entries again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:07, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
The way I understand this (based on reading from a number of sources and accounts) was that the 1900 Games were initially organised by IOC who then handed contol over to the French government and/or the exposition organisers. The Greeks weren't happy at the time as they believed that the hosting of the Games should not rotate between nations but remain in Greece. They were poorly planned and by all accounts an absolute shambles but there is no doubt that they they were an IOC Olympics. The result of the Greeks desire to host and the poor organisation in Paris was what led to the decision in 1901 to have Intercalated Games - Basement12 (T. C) 12:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It has been debated by individuals that have no knowledge in the subject. The 1870 Athens Olympic Games were the first modern Olympic Games to be held in a stadium. The same stadium that was used for the 1875 Olympic Games. The same stadium that was used for the 1896 Athens Olympic Games and that was sponsored by the same sponsor of the 1870 and 1875 Athens Olympic Games. The same stadium that was used for the 1906 Athens Olympic Games. And the same stadium that was used for events at the 2004 Athens Olympic Games. It doesn't matter how many of you deny the facts. The historic facts remain. And these were preceded by the 1859 Athens Olympic Games held in a square in Athens. Moreover, the Olympic Games sponsored by Evangelis Zappas were not called "Zappas Games" at the time. They were called "Olympic Games" because they were the first Olympic Games to he organised in modern times. Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 23:01, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
A velodrome does not qualify as an atletics stadium. That is why it is called a velodrome. There is no merit in passing-off a velodrome as an athletics stadium. It certainly does not compare with a robust stadium, such as the Panathenaic stadium, built in marble and dedicated to athletics since ancient times. If you would like a category of Olympic velodromes I could create one for you but I doubt that there is enough content for the category. Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 19:44, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
[Tabbing over to the left to save space.]
A reliable source must be based on the historical fact and not some flight of fancy that supports the arguments of those that have not made any effort whatsoever in identifying the original historical facts backed up by flagrantly abusive arguments of POV-pushing. Now here is a reliable source that has made the effort to find out the facts and it is not a POV:
"Journal of Olympic History" (The Official Publication of the International Society of Olympic Historians), Special Issue, December 2008, p. 4:
"Can we really say that in 1900 we had Olympic Games?
There are many indications which show otherwise:
From May 14 to October 28 1900 the International World Exposition (Exposition Universelle de 1900) took place in Paris. The programme for this International World Exposition contained a large number of both international and national sporting events. The overall director of the World Exposition Mr. Picard charged Mr. Daniel Merillon with organising the sports events, which he could do with the assistance of the sports organisations and clubs in Paris. Nor in the invitations (Exposition Universelle Internationale de 1900 a Paris [ed.], Reglement General des Concours Internationaux d'Exercices Physiques et des Sports, Paris 1900), in which the various sporting events have been described; nor in the French press-publications (like for example : La Vie au Grand Air 1900) the conception <<Olympic Games>> can be found."
i.e. during the event the games were not called or referred to as Olympic Games. In fact, there are no tickets that use the words "Olympic Games" either for the Paris Exposition in 1900 unlike the Olympic Games of 1870 and 1875 which had printed tickets with the word "Olympics" printed on them (nor was the phrase "Zappas Olympics" used anywhere for either of those two events at that time).
Moreover,
"In his autobiographic books, Baron de Coubertin also avoided this description in his obviously short critical comments about the events."
Not even Baron Pierre de Coubertin referred to the sporting events at the Paris Exposition in his own autobiographical works as "Olympic Games". Notably, because the IOC was not in charge of what happened at the Paris Exposition and what happened at the Paris Exposition was chaos. Although he was asked to be the head of the athletics events of the games but not in his capacity as the second President of the IOC. If anybody is POV-pushing it is you. You are pushing the wholesale fraud that is peddled by today's IOC. Not even Baron Pierre de Coubertin had the stomach to refer to what happened at the Paris Exposition in 1900 as "Olympic Games". Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 13:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
"One cannot change history ex cathedra (infallible).
We explained this with the example of the Olympic Games in 1906. These Games took place after an IOC decision taken at the 1901 Session in Paris under the name: Second International Olympic Games Athens 1906."
A title which I personally disagree with since this is the International Olympic Committee's title which ignores the 1859, 1870 and 1875 Olympic Games which were international events despite your POV-pushing disagreements otherwise.
Even the IOC, in 1901, called the 1906 Athens Olympic Games "Second International Olympic Games" and by doing so the IOC, of the time, cemented the historical fact that there was no Olympic Games in Paris in 1900. Ofcourse, the revisionist IOC claims otherwise now and ofcourse the fact that they have changed history for their own benefit is ignored by all and notably you. Now, what POV-pushing argument are you going to come up with now. The reference is iron-clad solid. The quotes are from the board of the International Society of Olympic Historians which is sponsored by the International Olympic Committee. These are the world experts on modern Olympic history. Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 14:11, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Given the postponement of the games should 2020 beside Japan National Stadium be changed to 2021, or stay 2020 as at the moment the games are still being classed as the 2020 games? Dunarc ( talk) 21:52, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Olympics Template‑class | |||||||
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Nipsonanomhmata's POV campaign of getting the pre-1896 Zappas Olympics treated as a full part of the Olympic Games has been debated to death at Talk:Olympic Games and has been rejected by unanimous consensus. For him to still keep pushing that same meme on multiple pages [1] after it was rejected on the main article is patently disruptive. This template is about the Summer Olympics, which is a clearly defined institution that began in 1896. The pre-1896 games, even though they bore the same name, were a different thing and are unanimously not treated as part of the same institution by all the relevant literature.
I will remove the two entries again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:07, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
The way I understand this (based on reading from a number of sources and accounts) was that the 1900 Games were initially organised by IOC who then handed contol over to the French government and/or the exposition organisers. The Greeks weren't happy at the time as they believed that the hosting of the Games should not rotate between nations but remain in Greece. They were poorly planned and by all accounts an absolute shambles but there is no doubt that they they were an IOC Olympics. The result of the Greeks desire to host and the poor organisation in Paris was what led to the decision in 1901 to have Intercalated Games - Basement12 (T. C) 12:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It has been debated by individuals that have no knowledge in the subject. The 1870 Athens Olympic Games were the first modern Olympic Games to be held in a stadium. The same stadium that was used for the 1875 Olympic Games. The same stadium that was used for the 1896 Athens Olympic Games and that was sponsored by the same sponsor of the 1870 and 1875 Athens Olympic Games. The same stadium that was used for the 1906 Athens Olympic Games. And the same stadium that was used for events at the 2004 Athens Olympic Games. It doesn't matter how many of you deny the facts. The historic facts remain. And these were preceded by the 1859 Athens Olympic Games held in a square in Athens. Moreover, the Olympic Games sponsored by Evangelis Zappas were not called "Zappas Games" at the time. They were called "Olympic Games" because they were the first Olympic Games to he organised in modern times. Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 23:01, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
A velodrome does not qualify as an atletics stadium. That is why it is called a velodrome. There is no merit in passing-off a velodrome as an athletics stadium. It certainly does not compare with a robust stadium, such as the Panathenaic stadium, built in marble and dedicated to athletics since ancient times. If you would like a category of Olympic velodromes I could create one for you but I doubt that there is enough content for the category. Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 19:44, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
[Tabbing over to the left to save space.]
A reliable source must be based on the historical fact and not some flight of fancy that supports the arguments of those that have not made any effort whatsoever in identifying the original historical facts backed up by flagrantly abusive arguments of POV-pushing. Now here is a reliable source that has made the effort to find out the facts and it is not a POV:
"Journal of Olympic History" (The Official Publication of the International Society of Olympic Historians), Special Issue, December 2008, p. 4:
"Can we really say that in 1900 we had Olympic Games?
There are many indications which show otherwise:
From May 14 to October 28 1900 the International World Exposition (Exposition Universelle de 1900) took place in Paris. The programme for this International World Exposition contained a large number of both international and national sporting events. The overall director of the World Exposition Mr. Picard charged Mr. Daniel Merillon with organising the sports events, which he could do with the assistance of the sports organisations and clubs in Paris. Nor in the invitations (Exposition Universelle Internationale de 1900 a Paris [ed.], Reglement General des Concours Internationaux d'Exercices Physiques et des Sports, Paris 1900), in which the various sporting events have been described; nor in the French press-publications (like for example : La Vie au Grand Air 1900) the conception <<Olympic Games>> can be found."
i.e. during the event the games were not called or referred to as Olympic Games. In fact, there are no tickets that use the words "Olympic Games" either for the Paris Exposition in 1900 unlike the Olympic Games of 1870 and 1875 which had printed tickets with the word "Olympics" printed on them (nor was the phrase "Zappas Olympics" used anywhere for either of those two events at that time).
Moreover,
"In his autobiographic books, Baron de Coubertin also avoided this description in his obviously short critical comments about the events."
Not even Baron Pierre de Coubertin referred to the sporting events at the Paris Exposition in his own autobiographical works as "Olympic Games". Notably, because the IOC was not in charge of what happened at the Paris Exposition and what happened at the Paris Exposition was chaos. Although he was asked to be the head of the athletics events of the games but not in his capacity as the second President of the IOC. If anybody is POV-pushing it is you. You are pushing the wholesale fraud that is peddled by today's IOC. Not even Baron Pierre de Coubertin had the stomach to refer to what happened at the Paris Exposition in 1900 as "Olympic Games". Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 13:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
"One cannot change history ex cathedra (infallible).
We explained this with the example of the Olympic Games in 1906. These Games took place after an IOC decision taken at the 1901 Session in Paris under the name: Second International Olympic Games Athens 1906."
A title which I personally disagree with since this is the International Olympic Committee's title which ignores the 1859, 1870 and 1875 Olympic Games which were international events despite your POV-pushing disagreements otherwise.
Even the IOC, in 1901, called the 1906 Athens Olympic Games "Second International Olympic Games" and by doing so the IOC, of the time, cemented the historical fact that there was no Olympic Games in Paris in 1900. Ofcourse, the revisionist IOC claims otherwise now and ofcourse the fact that they have changed history for their own benefit is ignored by all and notably you. Now, what POV-pushing argument are you going to come up with now. The reference is iron-clad solid. The quotes are from the board of the International Society of Olympic Historians which is sponsored by the International Olympic Committee. These are the world experts on modern Olympic history. Nipsonanomhmata ( talk) 14:11, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Given the postponement of the games should 2020 beside Japan National Stadium be changed to 2021, or stay 2020 as at the moment the games are still being classed as the 2020 games? Dunarc ( talk) 21:52, 27 March 2020 (UTC)