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What makes one "noble family" of Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian affiliation ?
What makes one "noble family" of Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian affiliation ? Who gave these people their "noble" status? Are they noble family affiliated with the state of their time, their supposed ethnic background, or they earned it in some way, and from someone?--
౪ Santa ౪99° 17:02, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
What makes
Ljubibratić "Serbian noble family"?--
౪ Santa ౪99° 17:05, 29 December 2019 (UTC)reply
No grounds
Sadko, leave it be - you have no grounds in labeling these two families "Serb nobility". You are, again, pushing ethnicity on people who lived before assimilating identity labeled "Serbian" or never had one in the first place, but, more importantly, for Wikipedia especially, they never served any of Serbian polities, so hereditary titles of social class & status could never derive from either of these two kinds of kinship - political nor feudal and dynastic. Who is going to decide which ethnic identity label should have precedence: Vlach, Serb, Bosniak or Ottoman; since the families you are cramming under one identity, namely Serb, were Vlachs that also assimilated Bosniak and Ottoman identity throughout the same period they assimilated Serb label, not to mention Russian.
Yes, I imagine that, actually, more than several sources treat Miloradivics as ethnic Serbs, but if we check those sources little bit more carefully we could also notice more than obvious lack of academic credibility and authenticity on one side, or outright ethnic bias on the other, in most of them. Those who hold onto their academic credential will treat both families as Orthodox Vlachs, who later down the road of history assimilated Serb and Bosnian Muslim/Ottoman (today Bosniak) identity.
Another issue is that now that you have discovered this page via following me back in December 2019, that you used more than one reason to revert my edits, contradicting yourself in the process, from revision to revision, you are edit-waring over the same issue again. You should take
WP:ARBMAC restrictions into consideration.--
౪ Santa ౪99° 20:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Many of them are often described as ethnic Serbs, while
Mikhail Miloradovich is referred as a general of Serbian origin etc. I agree with your view of ethnicity before the 18th century, but the heritage of certain historical figures is often associated with a certain culture.--
WEBDuB (
talk) 11:47, 9 August 2020 (UTC)reply
This template is within the scope of WikiProject Royalty and Nobility, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
royalty and
nobility on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Royalty and NobilityWikipedia:WikiProject Royalty and NobilityTemplate:WikiProject Royalty and NobilityRoyalty and Nobility articles
This template is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Serbia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia articles
This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale.
What makes one "noble family" of Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian affiliation ?
What makes one "noble family" of Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian affiliation ? Who gave these people their "noble" status? Are they noble family affiliated with the state of their time, their supposed ethnic background, or they earned it in some way, and from someone?--
౪ Santa ౪99° 17:02, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
What makes
Ljubibratić "Serbian noble family"?--
౪ Santa ౪99° 17:05, 29 December 2019 (UTC)reply
No grounds
Sadko, leave it be - you have no grounds in labeling these two families "Serb nobility". You are, again, pushing ethnicity on people who lived before assimilating identity labeled "Serbian" or never had one in the first place, but, more importantly, for Wikipedia especially, they never served any of Serbian polities, so hereditary titles of social class & status could never derive from either of these two kinds of kinship - political nor feudal and dynastic. Who is going to decide which ethnic identity label should have precedence: Vlach, Serb, Bosniak or Ottoman; since the families you are cramming under one identity, namely Serb, were Vlachs that also assimilated Bosniak and Ottoman identity throughout the same period they assimilated Serb label, not to mention Russian.
Yes, I imagine that, actually, more than several sources treat Miloradivics as ethnic Serbs, but if we check those sources little bit more carefully we could also notice more than obvious lack of academic credibility and authenticity on one side, or outright ethnic bias on the other, in most of them. Those who hold onto their academic credential will treat both families as Orthodox Vlachs, who later down the road of history assimilated Serb and Bosnian Muslim/Ottoman (today Bosniak) identity.
Another issue is that now that you have discovered this page via following me back in December 2019, that you used more than one reason to revert my edits, contradicting yourself in the process, from revision to revision, you are edit-waring over the same issue again. You should take
WP:ARBMAC restrictions into consideration.--
౪ Santa ౪99° 20:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Many of them are often described as ethnic Serbs, while
Mikhail Miloradovich is referred as a general of Serbian origin etc. I agree with your view of ethnicity before the 18th century, but the heritage of certain historical figures is often associated with a certain culture.--
WEBDuB (
talk) 11:47, 9 August 2020 (UTC)reply
