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This template is too big and unhandy, which makes it confusing and severely reduces its usefulness. I think it will work best if it's broken into several nested collapsible templates. There's a couple of examples of what I'm talking about: Template:Marvel Cinematic Universe, Template:Wikipedia essays Flordeneu ( talk) 18:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
@ पाटलिपुत्र: While putting the nonexisting rulers in italics is "a" solution; I still think that it is inherently quite problematic to put this nonexisting rulers in a real chronological framework. Listing the purely fictional antediluvian Sumerian rulers in the real Uruk period is just pure speculation and not backed up by any relevant sources. What's your view on this? Zoeperkoe ( talk) 15:43, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
I've looked and I can't find a single article linked in this template which uses BCE/CE dating. Perhaps you can provide an example? Either way, I'd be willing to hazard a guess that 90+ per cent use BC/AD.
Several of those articles include this template. An example is the Sargon of Akkad article. That article has a notice telling editors to specifically use BC/AD dates. I'm pretty new to Wikipedia, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean we should either remove the template from the article or change the dating conventions in the template?
My argument is that this template would better fit in with the associated articles if it used the same dating conventions. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ficaia ( talk • contribs) 20:51, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
The MOS states: "Use either the BC–AD or the BCE–CE notation consistently within the same article". Should we then remove this template from Sargon of Akkad and other pages using BC-AD dates? That would be a shame, because this is a great template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ficaia ( talk • contribs) 21:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
What do you mean by law of primacy? You pointed me to the MOS, and it states an article should not have conflicting dates. Are there any articles using BCE/CE dates which also use this template? If not, then we're only introducing inconsistency by having BCE/CE dates in the template. It seems like the most harmonious solution would be to alter the dates here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ficaia ( talk • contribs) 21:36, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
The rule of primacy only applies as long as there is a consensus not to change the style for that article. And consensus can change.
How would one go about seeing if there is a consensus to change a controversial matter like date style? (I'm not joking: this has led to a lot of grief.) Common sense would suggest that one first leave a note on the talk page announcing the proposed change, then waiting for a response. How long? Because few talk pages are reviewed frequently, IMHO I'd wait at least 2 months, & 6 months would be better. We are not in a hurry to complete articles. If no one objects, or even comments, then make the change, & we can assume the new style is considered to have priority. However, if someone does object (which is obviously what happened here), then a discussion follows & one seeks a consensus about the change. And note that some pages are under the purview of one or more Wikigroups: if an active Wikigroup is monitoring the page, then they should be notified. And if they have agreed to a specific style for their pages, that should be observed. All of this applies whether the change is CE/BCE -> AD/BC or AD/BC -> CE/BCE.
And for the record, I am agnostic about which date style is used, AD/BC or CE/BCE -- although I will laugh with everyone else at edit wars over this point. -- llywrch ( talk) 20:06, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
Ancient Near East Template‑class | |||||||
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Politics Template‑class | |||||||
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Phoenicia Template‑class | |||||||
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This template is too big and unhandy, which makes it confusing and severely reduces its usefulness. I think it will work best if it's broken into several nested collapsible templates. There's a couple of examples of what I'm talking about: Template:Marvel Cinematic Universe, Template:Wikipedia essays Flordeneu ( talk) 18:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
@ पाटलिपुत्र: While putting the nonexisting rulers in italics is "a" solution; I still think that it is inherently quite problematic to put this nonexisting rulers in a real chronological framework. Listing the purely fictional antediluvian Sumerian rulers in the real Uruk period is just pure speculation and not backed up by any relevant sources. What's your view on this? Zoeperkoe ( talk) 15:43, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
I've looked and I can't find a single article linked in this template which uses BCE/CE dating. Perhaps you can provide an example? Either way, I'd be willing to hazard a guess that 90+ per cent use BC/AD.
Several of those articles include this template. An example is the Sargon of Akkad article. That article has a notice telling editors to specifically use BC/AD dates. I'm pretty new to Wikipedia, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean we should either remove the template from the article or change the dating conventions in the template?
My argument is that this template would better fit in with the associated articles if it used the same dating conventions. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ficaia ( talk • contribs) 20:51, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
The MOS states: "Use either the BC–AD or the BCE–CE notation consistently within the same article". Should we then remove this template from Sargon of Akkad and other pages using BC-AD dates? That would be a shame, because this is a great template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ficaia ( talk • contribs) 21:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
What do you mean by law of primacy? You pointed me to the MOS, and it states an article should not have conflicting dates. Are there any articles using BCE/CE dates which also use this template? If not, then we're only introducing inconsistency by having BCE/CE dates in the template. It seems like the most harmonious solution would be to alter the dates here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ficaia ( talk • contribs) 21:36, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
The rule of primacy only applies as long as there is a consensus not to change the style for that article. And consensus can change.
How would one go about seeing if there is a consensus to change a controversial matter like date style? (I'm not joking: this has led to a lot of grief.) Common sense would suggest that one first leave a note on the talk page announcing the proposed change, then waiting for a response. How long? Because few talk pages are reviewed frequently, IMHO I'd wait at least 2 months, & 6 months would be better. We are not in a hurry to complete articles. If no one objects, or even comments, then make the change, & we can assume the new style is considered to have priority. However, if someone does object (which is obviously what happened here), then a discussion follows & one seeks a consensus about the change. And note that some pages are under the purview of one or more Wikigroups: if an active Wikigroup is monitoring the page, then they should be notified. And if they have agreed to a specific style for their pages, that should be observed. All of this applies whether the change is CE/BCE -> AD/BC or AD/BC -> CE/BCE.
And for the record, I am agnostic about which date style is used, AD/BC or CE/BCE -- although I will laugh with everyone else at edit wars over this point. -- llywrch ( talk) 20:06, 21 April 2022 (UTC)