This template was considered for deletion on 2008 May 12. The result of the discussion was "keep". |
Ireland Template‑class | |||||||
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Shouldn't Free Derry be added to the list of "See also" at the bottom of the template on this article? ie Confederate Ireland | Republic of Connaught | Éire | Northern Ireland | Republic of Munster
Free Derry was a de facto independent state like the Republic of Connacht, etc. It lasted around a year, so maybe it should be added? Republoic of Wexford as well?
Any opinions? Derry Boi 16:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but is is nonsense to suggest that Londonderry was an independent state for any period of time. Henry Parrteson's book states that "by August 15th, 'Free Derry' has effectively ceded from the Northern state". Note the word effective. What were 'Free Derry's borders? What was its system of government? What was head of state? Traditional unionist 12:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Some questions regarding the recent changes to Northern Ireland in this template:
-- sony-youth talk 20:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
The Devolved Northern Ireland House of Commons and Senate setup by the partition of Ireland in 1920/21 was disolved by the British government and direct rule return to Westminster, so it was a change in the constitutional status in that regard.-- padraig3uk 20:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Northern Ireland has had continuous recognition since the Government of Ireland Act. AFAIK it was never given a legal title such as 'state', but that would also mean that the legal term for what type of entity it is exactly has not been changed - only the method of governance has altered.
I don't see why the Northern Ireland link should be split into 2, especially since one points to NI and the other to the NI House of Commons. This seems inconsistent with the others, particularly Southern Ireland which links to Southern Ireland rather than Parliament of Southern Ireland or similar. beano 20:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
When power was transfered back to the Assembly recently it was reported at the time that the UK would temporaraly lose control of NI until the Assembly was restablished under the executive. If that was the case then it is resonable to assume that when the Stormont Government was disolved in 1972, that power went from the devolved NIHOC to Westminster. In much the same way as the power transfered from the Irish Free State to the Republic of Ireland which we treat as two seperate entities.-- padraig3uk 20:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Pardraig, you have once again removed the official flag of Northern Ireland at the time that that state was disolved. This was the flag that the former state of Northern Ireland choose to use to represent itself. If you do not like this flag in real-life, that is your prerogative, but your personal dislike of it has no place here. I'll remind you that this is a template, changes made here affect many different pages. Please try to act responsibly, with consensus, and true to the facts. -- sony-youth talk 07:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Copy of post requesting comment made to NI talk page:
-- sony-youth talk 11:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Northern Ireland is not now, nor has it ever been, a state. It is a constituant part of the state of the United Kingdom, a self governing part, but has never been a state. Traditional unionist 12:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Is the Tricolour the best emblem to represent Derry? I tried
, but reduced to
, it looks like Cra not very good. There are so many tricolours in this template, they seem to lose their distinctiveness!
The starry Plough could be an alternative.-- padraig3uk 06:18, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Padraig, your nit-picking with the NI flag and it's unofficial status while suggesting flags for a non-state that never actually had a flag is a significant inconsistency. 81.154.60.248 14:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
I'm proposing to change the template to a design similar to what's below. I'm not presenting this as the "final" design, but would like to hear other editors opinion on it. -- sony-youth pléigh 01:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I think that the official name should be used for Ireland, being Republic of Ireland as is the case for all official language of the state within Wikipedia. -- Cka4004 17:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Might I suggest trying a version without the flags? It seems to me that they add more clutter than illumination. "Free Derry" is very problematic and will cause edit wars. -- Red King 18:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Terrific graphic, Sony-youth! I agree with the above that it's a bit large for a footer, but I would suggest putting it on the
Irish states since 1171 page in place of the template. It would illustrate that article really nicely.
Two related comments: the state of Northern Ireland has existed continuously from 1921 to the present, even in the years when it did not have a legislative assembly, so (a) there should not be a gap for the direct-rule period (1972-1998), and (b) the beginning of Nortern Ireland (and Southern Ireland) should be pushed to the right (or the Irish Republic pushed to the left). I'm on IE7 so it's not a browser issue.
btw Free Derry is in the current template, so I would leave it.
Scolaire 19:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
OK. I made the changes suggested. I agree that it is prob unsuitable for a footer. So I'll make it a template and lob it into the Irish States article. -- sony-youth pléigh 22:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Better still Sony! Complex, but so is history. Facts should not be lost in pursuit of style; not that it doesn't look good. ( Sarah777 00:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC))
In the infobox, why is NI split - ie 1921–1972 Northern Ireland and since 1998 Northern Ireland? Reading the above, it seems it was agreed that NI has existed as a state since 1921. Stu ’Bout ye! 15:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes, conflict is a positive. And here we have an example, we have arrived at something. There is something to be said for a link to an article on Northern Ireland's devolved institutions 1921-1973 in the see also part though.....is there a suitable article? Traditional unionist ( talk) 14:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC):
There is a link Northern_Ireland_1921-72 from the politics of Northern Ireland 1922-72 template, but it currently redirects to the History of Northern Ireland article.-- Padraig ( talk) 15:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Irish states since 1171 Irish states since 1171
Seems to me perhaps some should be discussing this..... Traditional unionist ( talk) 01:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I have fixed an error here and ask Snappy not to start edit-warring. The previous version implied superior status for Ireland as part of the UK 1919-1922 rather then the democratically declared Republic. Obvious POV. Sarah777 ( talk) 10:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Firstly, I'm not going to dignify that above section with a response in it. The tone of User:Sarah777 leaves a lot to be desired. She has been conducted a slow edit war over the past few months, and recently has been claimed to be "corrected the template" which had and "obvious error", obvious error, my arse! Why don't you call a spade a spade and state that your pushing your POV. My position remains the same as previously stated by Sony-youth; "If the Commonwealth (de facto, de jure and internationally recognised) and the Confederacy (internationally recognised and supported, de facto and de jure in to an extent) can happily rest in this section then the Irish Republic (not internationally recognised, not de jure, but de facto) can.". The consenus reached was to leave the template with Irish Republic in See also section. It's also quite obvious that Sarah777 has no interest in discussing this issue. Snappy56 ( talk) 10:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Sarah, it takes two to edit war, and you and Snappy are both edit-warring. Both of you please stop, and discuss this for as long as it takes to reach a consensus, or else there are likely to be formal eedit-warring warnings and blocks before long. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 21:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
In view of the apparent impossibility of agreeing any way of structuring this template to reflect WP:NPOV, I have nominated for deletion: see Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 May 12#Template:Irish_states_since_1171. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 21:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I've removed all the flags, some are correct, some seem like WP:OR. I think the template looks better like this. Comments? Snappy56 ( talk) 08:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
This template was considered for deletion on 2008 May 12. The result of the discussion was "keep". |
Ireland Template‑class | |||||||
|
Shouldn't Free Derry be added to the list of "See also" at the bottom of the template on this article? ie Confederate Ireland | Republic of Connaught | Éire | Northern Ireland | Republic of Munster
Free Derry was a de facto independent state like the Republic of Connacht, etc. It lasted around a year, so maybe it should be added? Republoic of Wexford as well?
Any opinions? Derry Boi 16:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but is is nonsense to suggest that Londonderry was an independent state for any period of time. Henry Parrteson's book states that "by August 15th, 'Free Derry' has effectively ceded from the Northern state". Note the word effective. What were 'Free Derry's borders? What was its system of government? What was head of state? Traditional unionist 12:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Some questions regarding the recent changes to Northern Ireland in this template:
-- sony-youth talk 20:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
The Devolved Northern Ireland House of Commons and Senate setup by the partition of Ireland in 1920/21 was disolved by the British government and direct rule return to Westminster, so it was a change in the constitutional status in that regard.-- padraig3uk 20:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Northern Ireland has had continuous recognition since the Government of Ireland Act. AFAIK it was never given a legal title such as 'state', but that would also mean that the legal term for what type of entity it is exactly has not been changed - only the method of governance has altered.
I don't see why the Northern Ireland link should be split into 2, especially since one points to NI and the other to the NI House of Commons. This seems inconsistent with the others, particularly Southern Ireland which links to Southern Ireland rather than Parliament of Southern Ireland or similar. beano 20:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
When power was transfered back to the Assembly recently it was reported at the time that the UK would temporaraly lose control of NI until the Assembly was restablished under the executive. If that was the case then it is resonable to assume that when the Stormont Government was disolved in 1972, that power went from the devolved NIHOC to Westminster. In much the same way as the power transfered from the Irish Free State to the Republic of Ireland which we treat as two seperate entities.-- padraig3uk 20:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Pardraig, you have once again removed the official flag of Northern Ireland at the time that that state was disolved. This was the flag that the former state of Northern Ireland choose to use to represent itself. If you do not like this flag in real-life, that is your prerogative, but your personal dislike of it has no place here. I'll remind you that this is a template, changes made here affect many different pages. Please try to act responsibly, with consensus, and true to the facts. -- sony-youth talk 07:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Copy of post requesting comment made to NI talk page:
-- sony-youth talk 11:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Northern Ireland is not now, nor has it ever been, a state. It is a constituant part of the state of the United Kingdom, a self governing part, but has never been a state. Traditional unionist 12:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Is the Tricolour the best emblem to represent Derry? I tried
, but reduced to
, it looks like Cra not very good. There are so many tricolours in this template, they seem to lose their distinctiveness!
The starry Plough could be an alternative.-- padraig3uk 06:18, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Padraig, your nit-picking with the NI flag and it's unofficial status while suggesting flags for a non-state that never actually had a flag is a significant inconsistency. 81.154.60.248 14:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
I'm proposing to change the template to a design similar to what's below. I'm not presenting this as the "final" design, but would like to hear other editors opinion on it. -- sony-youth pléigh 01:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I think that the official name should be used for Ireland, being Republic of Ireland as is the case for all official language of the state within Wikipedia. -- Cka4004 17:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Might I suggest trying a version without the flags? It seems to me that they add more clutter than illumination. "Free Derry" is very problematic and will cause edit wars. -- Red King 18:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Terrific graphic, Sony-youth! I agree with the above that it's a bit large for a footer, but I would suggest putting it on the
Irish states since 1171 page in place of the template. It would illustrate that article really nicely.
Two related comments: the state of Northern Ireland has existed continuously from 1921 to the present, even in the years when it did not have a legislative assembly, so (a) there should not be a gap for the direct-rule period (1972-1998), and (b) the beginning of Nortern Ireland (and Southern Ireland) should be pushed to the right (or the Irish Republic pushed to the left). I'm on IE7 so it's not a browser issue.
btw Free Derry is in the current template, so I would leave it.
Scolaire 19:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
OK. I made the changes suggested. I agree that it is prob unsuitable for a footer. So I'll make it a template and lob it into the Irish States article. -- sony-youth pléigh 22:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Better still Sony! Complex, but so is history. Facts should not be lost in pursuit of style; not that it doesn't look good. ( Sarah777 00:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC))
In the infobox, why is NI split - ie 1921–1972 Northern Ireland and since 1998 Northern Ireland? Reading the above, it seems it was agreed that NI has existed as a state since 1921. Stu ’Bout ye! 15:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes, conflict is a positive. And here we have an example, we have arrived at something. There is something to be said for a link to an article on Northern Ireland's devolved institutions 1921-1973 in the see also part though.....is there a suitable article? Traditional unionist ( talk) 14:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC):
There is a link Northern_Ireland_1921-72 from the politics of Northern Ireland 1922-72 template, but it currently redirects to the History of Northern Ireland article.-- Padraig ( talk) 15:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Irish states since 1171 Irish states since 1171
Seems to me perhaps some should be discussing this..... Traditional unionist ( talk) 01:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I have fixed an error here and ask Snappy not to start edit-warring. The previous version implied superior status for Ireland as part of the UK 1919-1922 rather then the democratically declared Republic. Obvious POV. Sarah777 ( talk) 10:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Firstly, I'm not going to dignify that above section with a response in it. The tone of User:Sarah777 leaves a lot to be desired. She has been conducted a slow edit war over the past few months, and recently has been claimed to be "corrected the template" which had and "obvious error", obvious error, my arse! Why don't you call a spade a spade and state that your pushing your POV. My position remains the same as previously stated by Sony-youth; "If the Commonwealth (de facto, de jure and internationally recognised) and the Confederacy (internationally recognised and supported, de facto and de jure in to an extent) can happily rest in this section then the Irish Republic (not internationally recognised, not de jure, but de facto) can.". The consenus reached was to leave the template with Irish Republic in See also section. It's also quite obvious that Sarah777 has no interest in discussing this issue. Snappy56 ( talk) 10:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Sarah, it takes two to edit war, and you and Snappy are both edit-warring. Both of you please stop, and discuss this for as long as it takes to reach a consensus, or else there are likely to be formal eedit-warring warnings and blocks before long. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 21:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
In view of the apparent impossibility of agreeing any way of structuring this template to reflect WP:NPOV, I have nominated for deletion: see Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 May 12#Template:Irish_states_since_1171. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 21:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I've removed all the flags, some are correct, some seem like WP:OR. I think the template looks better like this. Comments? Snappy56 ( talk) 08:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)