Hello, Thiagovscoelho, we began our discussion on page [ [1]], I'll continue it here. It's true that the word "esotericism" today includes, on the one hand, the fruit of genuine spiritual intuitions and, on the other, the fruit of psychic intuitions or personal inventions. As I believe that the two should not be mixed, I propose to separate them as in the example below. I've kept all your entries except Visualization (too specific and not in WP) + Propitiation, Sacrifice, Exorcism (exoteric rites) + Jung (I would not call him an esoterist). I moved Egregore from Esoteric Rites to Key Concepts, and Theosophy from Key Concepts to Esoteric Societes (showing its full name). I added a few esoterists: Socrates, Plato, Dionysius the Areopagite, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Plotinus, Adi Shankara, Ibn Arabi, Meister Eckhart, Dante, Frithjof Schuon. Of course, one can add a host of other Notable figures, Societies, Rites and Key concepts, and as this template is not sourced - it can't be - anyone can add, delete or move anything, which could lead to tedious discussions (no template, no problems!). I look forward to your comments.
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Esotericism |
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Manamaris ( talk) 09:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Manamaris, esotericism is not simply mysticism or metaphysics. Although figures such as the ancient Greek philosophers and medieval Christian, Indian and Islamic mystics heavily influenced esotericism, there is no evident "hidden teaching", occult worldview or secret line of initiation in many of those names you've proposed, such as Socrates or Origen. In my opinion, those who might be relevant to add are Plato, who had unwritten doctrines, inner teachings in his Academy and whose works were commented in an esoteric manner by later disciples; Ibn Arabi, who had a clear esoteric approach in part of his philosophical system; and also Dionysius the Areopagite and Frithjof Schuon. Best regards! Bafuncius ( talk) 10:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Would you maybe add the template to the following (or other) categories?
Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 12:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Thanks to all three of you above for contributing, and anyone else who may show up. As far as I'm concerned, you should all feel free to " be bold" about any changes you want made to it, as I don't have very strong opinions myself on what the template should look like, besides that I wanted there to be one, which is why I made it. As I noted in the Guénon talk page, I wanted something that could picture the conceptual space of Egregore, which this does either way. Thiagovscoelho ( talk) 13:10, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Well, I foolishly tried to add Category:Western esotericism scholars and the Esotericism template to Peter Kingsley and was soon reverted. Of course I may well be the one in the wrong, especially if Kingsley himself responds to my talk page topic. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 16:35, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello, Thiagovscoelho, we began our discussion on page [ [1]], I'll continue it here. It's true that the word "esotericism" today includes, on the one hand, the fruit of genuine spiritual intuitions and, on the other, the fruit of psychic intuitions or personal inventions. As I believe that the two should not be mixed, I propose to separate them as in the example below. I've kept all your entries except Visualization (too specific and not in WP) + Propitiation, Sacrifice, Exorcism (exoteric rites) + Jung (I would not call him an esoterist). I moved Egregore from Esoteric Rites to Key Concepts, and Theosophy from Key Concepts to Esoteric Societes (showing its full name). I added a few esoterists: Socrates, Plato, Dionysius the Areopagite, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Plotinus, Adi Shankara, Ibn Arabi, Meister Eckhart, Dante, Frithjof Schuon. Of course, one can add a host of other Notable figures, Societies, Rites and Key concepts, and as this template is not sourced - it can't be - anyone can add, delete or move anything, which could lead to tedious discussions (no template, no problems!). I look forward to your comments.
Part of a series on |
Esotericism |
---|
Manamaris ( talk) 09:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Manamaris, esotericism is not simply mysticism or metaphysics. Although figures such as the ancient Greek philosophers and medieval Christian, Indian and Islamic mystics heavily influenced esotericism, there is no evident "hidden teaching", occult worldview or secret line of initiation in many of those names you've proposed, such as Socrates or Origen. In my opinion, those who might be relevant to add are Plato, who had unwritten doctrines, inner teachings in his Academy and whose works were commented in an esoteric manner by later disciples; Ibn Arabi, who had a clear esoteric approach in part of his philosophical system; and also Dionysius the Areopagite and Frithjof Schuon. Best regards! Bafuncius ( talk) 10:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Would you maybe add the template to the following (or other) categories?
Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 12:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Thanks to all three of you above for contributing, and anyone else who may show up. As far as I'm concerned, you should all feel free to " be bold" about any changes you want made to it, as I don't have very strong opinions myself on what the template should look like, besides that I wanted there to be one, which is why I made it. As I noted in the Guénon talk page, I wanted something that could picture the conceptual space of Egregore, which this does either way. Thiagovscoelho ( talk) 13:10, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Well, I foolishly tried to add Category:Western esotericism scholars and the Esotericism template to Peter Kingsley and was soon reverted. Of course I may well be the one in the wrong, especially if Kingsley himself responds to my talk page topic. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 16:35, 4 July 2023 (UTC)