Politics Template‑class | |||||||
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Arab world Template‑class | |||||||
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I propose the following change:
Schizodelight ( talk) 03:06, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Egypt's Domestic/International responses can be accessed through the main article. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 10:53, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
{{split|part=yes|Template:2011 Egyptian protests}}
The Egyptian protests are garnering multiple articles, so it should be split off into a separate template from this one. The Egyptian related subjects would be moved off to the new template, leaving only the main Egypt protest article on this template.
Considering the number of notable peopel connected to these protests, the nav template should be separated to provide better division between Egyptian and other Arab protests, and show what is clearly Egyptian topics.
184.144.161.207 ( talk) 07:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Return the template to utilizing the style shown in this version. That would allow us to add the extra articles without any confusion in the template. Silver seren C 07:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
I like the idea of having a template for the entire region's protests, but it seems too un-differentiated to have the people and political groups mashed together. I think if there are enough sub-articles for this template to make sense, than we have to break out the people/party sections by country in some way. Ocaasi ( talk) 11:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
The template is so messy. How about the following geographical grouping of the Arab world:
82.137.200.10 ( talk) 22:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
I've WP:BOLDly gone ahead and just grouped the protests into major (with its own WP article) and minor (just a section in the main article). D'accord? — Nightstallion 14:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I note that Iran has been removed from the template today. It is well known that Iran is not 'Arab' but the protests in Iran are clearly very highly connected to those which are occuring in Arab countries in the region (the 2010–2011 Arab world protests article already contains two paragraphs on the Iran protests), and to completely exclude Iran from this template is in my view the wrong approach.
I propose that either:
(1) a 'See also' section be added to the template, with a link to the Iran protests included there; or (2) a 'Concurrent protests outside the Arab world' section be added, with Iran included there.
Rangoon11 ( talk) 12:50, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I thought about merging the two groups, as "Major" and "Minor" are subjective terms, but as I noticed a difference between the two groups was that the "Major" ones had their own articles while the "Minor"'s were sections in the main article, I thought that there might be some sort of distinction. If they are separated, though, it has to be by actual criteria beyond wiki notability. -- Muboshgu ( talk) 15:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I removed Iranian link in this template: The reason is 1. Iranian are struggling for democracy (according to all major independent sources), 2. Arab world does not seem to be asking for that (apart from Aljazeera's claim), 3. The link between these two things are wp:or. Major sources do distinguish cases . And I think even collecting all the arab countries in one path is highly disputed (Tunisia differes greatly from Egypt and that from yeman and that from Jordan). I am concerend about aljazeera-ization of curent event in the middle east. This is, for freedon fighters in the middle east, very counter productive. Believe me. Xashaiar ( talk) 16:29, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
note: there is a WP:3RR thread related to this dispute here. Do not remove this message. It is common practice to notify involved parties of disputes related to their editing. Ocaasi ( talk) 00:13, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
We use the most 'common' name for articles, to help the general public find what they're looking for. Same for what's included in a Template. If people expect to find a link to the Iranian protests article, then that's what we should provide. It's not Arab, which is why it's listed under 'Related'. Any article or template about an ongoing situation is expected to be fluid. There will be plenty of time to rearrange and rename after the dust has settled. This is not that time. We don't know where this is going, or where other protests may happen. Perhaps '2010-2011 Pro-democracy protests' may be a better title. Perhaps not. Flatterworld ( talk) 17:05, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The word related to/see also does justify inclusion. The protests are related by their common populist roots, anti-authoritarian direction, use of social media, cooperation between factions, etc. Here are a few sources that relate them directly:
In short, there's no reason to exclude a related or see also link to these protests, which are clearly related by major news organizations. Linking to them does not make Iran 'part of the Arab world', it just accurately reflects that the 'current' Iranian protests are being linked and discussed in relation to the Arab world protests. Those protests may be about Muslims overthrowing their secular governments, or they may be about people looking for democracy. Either way, they're related, and continuing to maintain that they are not seems like obstruction based on a personal opinion. Please reconsider. Ocaasi ( talk) 14:56, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't think we MUST follow 2010–2011 Arab world protests title for this template, there are no rules that say so. These are two separate pages. So I propose that we take the initiative ourselves, and rename this template to 2010–2011 Protests in the Middle East or 2010-2011 Middle East Protests, per BBC. [7] Kurdo777 ( talk) 23:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
Instead of using a softbreak between countries, the template should return to having a softbreak between items, say using {{
-w}} , and each country should be started with a linebreak <br/> instead of {{
.w}} to clearly separate countries by line in each section, making the appearance cleaner.
64.229.100.61 (
talk) 23:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
template. — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk) 15:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Hello, I've considered changing this template to a navboxsubgroup. We can group articles according to their countries. If an arab protest has more than 3 articles for instance (we can talk about the minimum number or the importance of the protests), then we create a new group for such country. What do you think? Here's something I've tried:
-- Schizodelight ( talk) 09:12, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
2011 Bahrain Grand Prix is missing from the template. 65.95.14.96 ( talk) 00:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Fixed it. Zbase4 ( talk) 03:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Should the more spectacular protest locations be added to the template? Tahrir Square, Pearl Square, etc. 65.93.15.125 ( talk) 22:40, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Because of the protests in Western Sahara - 2010–2011 Sahrawi protests - shouldn't Western Sahara be added to this infobox? Vis-a-visconti ( talk)
User:Muboshgu had erased W. Sahara from the infobox, without giving explanations, without consensus and starting edit-warring. I would take the issue to the Administrator's noticeboard.-- HCPUNXKID ( talk) 11:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I have re-added Western Sahara, as editors on the main page seem to have agreed it should be included. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 04:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Excuse my english, I'm French.
What about links between Wisconsin protests and Middle East and North Africa protests ? Are there contestings about this link? Some frenchs contributors, not implicated in editing process of articles on the subject, cannot believe in a relationship between. Archie ( talk) 22:59, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
How about changing the link to the country (in this section of the template) to point to the relevant category such as [[Category:People of the 2011 Syrian protests]] ? Also change the 'Notable people' to link to [[Category:People of the 2010–2011 Arab world protests]] (which should probably have its name changed to match this template). Flatterworld ( talk) 18:32, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
It would be per WP:COMMONNAME. -- 92.4.109.186 ( talk) 20:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
In light of the latest move of the main page, this template should be renamed ASAP! 69.31.108.43 ( talk) 14:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
As of 22:45, 13 January 2012 (UTC), the rendering of this template is extremely wide in my browser: lines do not fold when i make my browser window narrower. Is this deliberate? What is/are the argument(s) for this?
If not, maybe someone could try to fix it before i try to understand it - it's probably obvious looking at the source, but i haven't (yet) tried. This old version folds nicely. Boud ( talk) 22:45, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Just for the record, the 180px single-column, vertically-long image was reverted to the old 220px double-column, vertically-short image. My guess is that what looks best depends on browser-to-font ratio:
IMHO my font is not so big, my browser is not so narrow, and my resolution is not so low, but i fall into the second case - "low browser-to-font ratio". The events by country, groups, impact, and international reactions sections of the template all have the right-hand roughly 25% of the template as blank space above (events, groups) or below (impact, int reactions) the image.
Maybe someone can find in WP:MOS or somewhere similar what sort of browser settings we should consider to be "typical"? Or maybe there's another solution which will not end up satisfying some Wikipedia online readers while giving too much white space for others? Something like <gallery> [[File:Tunisiaimage.png]] ... </gallery>? Boud ( talk) 01:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I've been bold and added a new article about the UAE Five to this template, but it won't hurt my feelings if it ends up removed. The UAE Five were probably the highest-profile Arab Spring incident in the UAE, but that being said, the Arab Spring seems to have had far less impact there than elsewhere. Let me know what you think. Cheers, -- Khazar ( talk) 04:34, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I just deleted Khuzestan from the list of countries, simply because it is NOT a country. It's only a state in Iran. By the way, those mentioned events took place only in some parts of that state, not all of it. Therefore mentioning it for the whole country is a mistake.
Another reason is that the events in 2011 were just to mark an anniversary for the events in 2005, which has happened years before the Arab Spring. It was not even an impact, perhaps just a response to show correlation. In fact 08:37, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Politics Template‑class | |||||||
|
Arab world Template‑class | |||||||
|
I propose the following change:
Schizodelight ( talk) 03:06, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Egypt's Domestic/International responses can be accessed through the main article. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 10:53, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
{{split|part=yes|Template:2011 Egyptian protests}}
The Egyptian protests are garnering multiple articles, so it should be split off into a separate template from this one. The Egyptian related subjects would be moved off to the new template, leaving only the main Egypt protest article on this template.
Considering the number of notable peopel connected to these protests, the nav template should be separated to provide better division between Egyptian and other Arab protests, and show what is clearly Egyptian topics.
184.144.161.207 ( talk) 07:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Return the template to utilizing the style shown in this version. That would allow us to add the extra articles without any confusion in the template. Silver seren C 07:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
I like the idea of having a template for the entire region's protests, but it seems too un-differentiated to have the people and political groups mashed together. I think if there are enough sub-articles for this template to make sense, than we have to break out the people/party sections by country in some way. Ocaasi ( talk) 11:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
The template is so messy. How about the following geographical grouping of the Arab world:
82.137.200.10 ( talk) 22:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
I've WP:BOLDly gone ahead and just grouped the protests into major (with its own WP article) and minor (just a section in the main article). D'accord? — Nightstallion 14:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I note that Iran has been removed from the template today. It is well known that Iran is not 'Arab' but the protests in Iran are clearly very highly connected to those which are occuring in Arab countries in the region (the 2010–2011 Arab world protests article already contains two paragraphs on the Iran protests), and to completely exclude Iran from this template is in my view the wrong approach.
I propose that either:
(1) a 'See also' section be added to the template, with a link to the Iran protests included there; or (2) a 'Concurrent protests outside the Arab world' section be added, with Iran included there.
Rangoon11 ( talk) 12:50, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I thought about merging the two groups, as "Major" and "Minor" are subjective terms, but as I noticed a difference between the two groups was that the "Major" ones had their own articles while the "Minor"'s were sections in the main article, I thought that there might be some sort of distinction. If they are separated, though, it has to be by actual criteria beyond wiki notability. -- Muboshgu ( talk) 15:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I removed Iranian link in this template: The reason is 1. Iranian are struggling for democracy (according to all major independent sources), 2. Arab world does not seem to be asking for that (apart from Aljazeera's claim), 3. The link between these two things are wp:or. Major sources do distinguish cases . And I think even collecting all the arab countries in one path is highly disputed (Tunisia differes greatly from Egypt and that from yeman and that from Jordan). I am concerend about aljazeera-ization of curent event in the middle east. This is, for freedon fighters in the middle east, very counter productive. Believe me. Xashaiar ( talk) 16:29, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
note: there is a WP:3RR thread related to this dispute here. Do not remove this message. It is common practice to notify involved parties of disputes related to their editing. Ocaasi ( talk) 00:13, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
We use the most 'common' name for articles, to help the general public find what they're looking for. Same for what's included in a Template. If people expect to find a link to the Iranian protests article, then that's what we should provide. It's not Arab, which is why it's listed under 'Related'. Any article or template about an ongoing situation is expected to be fluid. There will be plenty of time to rearrange and rename after the dust has settled. This is not that time. We don't know where this is going, or where other protests may happen. Perhaps '2010-2011 Pro-democracy protests' may be a better title. Perhaps not. Flatterworld ( talk) 17:05, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The word related to/see also does justify inclusion. The protests are related by their common populist roots, anti-authoritarian direction, use of social media, cooperation between factions, etc. Here are a few sources that relate them directly:
In short, there's no reason to exclude a related or see also link to these protests, which are clearly related by major news organizations. Linking to them does not make Iran 'part of the Arab world', it just accurately reflects that the 'current' Iranian protests are being linked and discussed in relation to the Arab world protests. Those protests may be about Muslims overthrowing their secular governments, or they may be about people looking for democracy. Either way, they're related, and continuing to maintain that they are not seems like obstruction based on a personal opinion. Please reconsider. Ocaasi ( talk) 14:56, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't think we MUST follow 2010–2011 Arab world protests title for this template, there are no rules that say so. These are two separate pages. So I propose that we take the initiative ourselves, and rename this template to 2010–2011 Protests in the Middle East or 2010-2011 Middle East Protests, per BBC. [7] Kurdo777 ( talk) 23:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
Instead of using a softbreak between countries, the template should return to having a softbreak between items, say using {{
-w}} , and each country should be started with a linebreak <br/> instead of {{
.w}} to clearly separate countries by line in each section, making the appearance cleaner.
64.229.100.61 (
talk) 23:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
template. — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk) 15:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)Hello, I've considered changing this template to a navboxsubgroup. We can group articles according to their countries. If an arab protest has more than 3 articles for instance (we can talk about the minimum number or the importance of the protests), then we create a new group for such country. What do you think? Here's something I've tried:
-- Schizodelight ( talk) 09:12, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
2011 Bahrain Grand Prix is missing from the template. 65.95.14.96 ( talk) 00:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Fixed it. Zbase4 ( talk) 03:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Should the more spectacular protest locations be added to the template? Tahrir Square, Pearl Square, etc. 65.93.15.125 ( talk) 22:40, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Because of the protests in Western Sahara - 2010–2011 Sahrawi protests - shouldn't Western Sahara be added to this infobox? Vis-a-visconti ( talk)
User:Muboshgu had erased W. Sahara from the infobox, without giving explanations, without consensus and starting edit-warring. I would take the issue to the Administrator's noticeboard.-- HCPUNXKID ( talk) 11:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I have re-added Western Sahara, as editors on the main page seem to have agreed it should be included. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 04:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Excuse my english, I'm French.
What about links between Wisconsin protests and Middle East and North Africa protests ? Are there contestings about this link? Some frenchs contributors, not implicated in editing process of articles on the subject, cannot believe in a relationship between. Archie ( talk) 22:59, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
How about changing the link to the country (in this section of the template) to point to the relevant category such as [[Category:People of the 2011 Syrian protests]] ? Also change the 'Notable people' to link to [[Category:People of the 2010–2011 Arab world protests]] (which should probably have its name changed to match this template). Flatterworld ( talk) 18:32, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
It would be per WP:COMMONNAME. -- 92.4.109.186 ( talk) 20:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
In light of the latest move of the main page, this template should be renamed ASAP! 69.31.108.43 ( talk) 14:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
As of 22:45, 13 January 2012 (UTC), the rendering of this template is extremely wide in my browser: lines do not fold when i make my browser window narrower. Is this deliberate? What is/are the argument(s) for this?
If not, maybe someone could try to fix it before i try to understand it - it's probably obvious looking at the source, but i haven't (yet) tried. This old version folds nicely. Boud ( talk) 22:45, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Just for the record, the 180px single-column, vertically-long image was reverted to the old 220px double-column, vertically-short image. My guess is that what looks best depends on browser-to-font ratio:
IMHO my font is not so big, my browser is not so narrow, and my resolution is not so low, but i fall into the second case - "low browser-to-font ratio". The events by country, groups, impact, and international reactions sections of the template all have the right-hand roughly 25% of the template as blank space above (events, groups) or below (impact, int reactions) the image.
Maybe someone can find in WP:MOS or somewhere similar what sort of browser settings we should consider to be "typical"? Or maybe there's another solution which will not end up satisfying some Wikipedia online readers while giving too much white space for others? Something like <gallery> [[File:Tunisiaimage.png]] ... </gallery>? Boud ( talk) 01:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I've been bold and added a new article about the UAE Five to this template, but it won't hurt my feelings if it ends up removed. The UAE Five were probably the highest-profile Arab Spring incident in the UAE, but that being said, the Arab Spring seems to have had far less impact there than elsewhere. Let me know what you think. Cheers, -- Khazar ( talk) 04:34, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I just deleted Khuzestan from the list of countries, simply because it is NOT a country. It's only a state in Iran. By the way, those mentioned events took place only in some parts of that state, not all of it. Therefore mentioning it for the whole country is a mistake.
Another reason is that the events in 2011 were just to mark an anniversary for the events in 2005, which has happened years before the Arab Spring. It was not even an impact, perhaps just a response to show correlation. In fact 08:37, 7 March 2012 (UTC)