![]() | Military history: Land vehicles / Technology / Weaponry / European / German / World War II Template‑class | |||||||||
|
Archive: Template talk:WWIIGermanAFVs/Foreign vehicle debate
I added Coelian to this list,however I was in doubt where to place it...prototypes or Flak Panzers,because only a wooden mock-up was created...feel free to correct me :) Nikolas93ts 16.00 20 Oct 2010
I think vehicles that were never actually built but designed is fine so long as they are under the Experimental heading. Oberiko 10:46, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I would suggest that, in light of the recent debate, any major change to this template by anyone be approved here first before being made. Oberiko 00:09, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have an opinion on the Armoured cars, being merged. To my mind the 221,222,223 articles are crying out for combination, but the template doesn't necessarily need altering since the space is there. GraemeLeggett 14:12, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Could I suggest we use the names Schwerer Panzerspahwagen for the six/eight wheeled variants and Leichter Panzerspahwagen for the four wheeled variants instead of the SdFkz numbers? Oberiko 12:09, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There is a problem with the new template for armored cars:
Panzerspähwagen not Panzerspahwagen. Also, the 223 and 260/1 were Panzerfunkwagen not Panzerspähwagen.
The main armored car types listed should at least include the Kfz 13/14, Sdkfz 221/22/23 260/61 Fu types, Sdkfz 231/32/63 233 (6 and 8 rad) and Sdkfz 234 types, and the Sdkfz 247 Personenkraftwagen. If all the main ones cannot be listed, it might better just to move the all the wheeled vehicles off to there own template. Starfury 00:58, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hello again! If the logic for that spelling is because its more popular, then it does not make sense to list them that way at all, as the cars are rarely organized by using those names but usually mentioned after.
Also, writing out heavy/ light armored cars in the template is about as long as just linking Kfz 13/14, Sdkfz 221/223, 231/234, 247. The 234 series is enough different to deserve its own page eventually, as it is more the just another 231 version in many respects, but it is probably fine for now.
Going back to the light/heavy issue, I have never seen them seperated with those names, only that the term is mentioned when saying the vehicles full name. Also heavy/light is not a very good seperator of functionality, for example, both the 222 and 234/1 both had a 20mm cannon. There was not much of a real split in terms of the actual vehicles, but a gradual increase in weight and capabilities between the 4 6 and 8 wheelers with various weapon mounts. I do think you could leave it, but it would a unique way of listing them, not something I have ever seen done in my experience. Starfury 18:03, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Allright then, what I will do is change the light and heavy names to the numbers on the template, since that is more common name for those vehicles. However, I will leave the page name where they are and I will not add the other vehicles to the template for now. Starfury 19:15, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Have you ever thought of splitting the template into two parts ?
This template is too big to be in one part (someone in germany called a smaller version a monster).
At least the halftrack an armored cars section should be combined into one field:
Armored half-tracks | Armored Cars |
---|
SdKfz 4, 250, 251, 252, 253 | Light armored cars, Heavy armored cars |
(just a small example) -- Denniss 18:20, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)
Armored half-tracks | Armored Cars |
---|
SdKfz 4, SdkFz 250, 251, 252, 253 | 4 wheeled, 6-8 wheeled |
GraemeLeggett 20:35, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Tank destroyers | |
---|---|
Panzerjäger I | Marder I , II , III | Hetzer | Jagdpanzer IV | Jagdpanther | Nashorn | Jagdtiger | Elefant | |
Armored half-tracks | Armored cars |
SdKfz 4 | 250 | 251 | 252 | 253 | Light armored cars | Heavy armored cars |
I've put a more subdued version of the German AFV navbox in my sandbox, at User:Mzajac/sandbox#AFV navbox. It's cleaner, but still pretty big. If splitting in two, try to keep the experimental tanks in the same infobox with the regular tanks, and experimental other in the infobox with the other, etc. — Michael Z. 2005-04-7 23:32 Z
Another solution: tank pages get a tank-only template, which also links to a compact list of all German AFVs. All tanks remain a click away, other AFVs are two clicks. Likewise for each category, which is currently a single row in the template. — Michael Z. 2005-04-7 23:38 Z
Hi Oberiko. In my default window, I never saw any line breaks, and I don't even have a very big monitor (running at 1024 px wide). Now two of the rows are awkwardly too tall. I'll change the pipe dividers to always break after; let me know if that fixes your problem. — Michael Z. 2005-04-7 23:22 Z
Might I suggest a different colour for the template - on my monitor RBG 51,153,153 is a passable match for "field grey" and a browser safe colour too. GraemeLeggett 11:19, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Jentz, Achtung! Panzer, and others say that the Panzer IX/X designs were frauds to confuse Allied intelligence agencies about German AFV plans. I've never seen any 3-views of it, or anything about them other than one hand-drawn picture of two tanks that appear to suffer from obesity. I doubt you could find any other official source to suggest a design phase, and they certainly didn't reach the prototype stage. Sacxpert 10:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
There's a discussion about AFV navigation templates at WT:AFV#Navigation templates. Topics include style, and the organization of post-WWII templates. Please discuss there. — Michael Z. 2008-08-28 00:08 z
![]() | Military history: Land vehicles / Technology / Weaponry / European / German / World War II Template‑class | |||||||||
|
Archive: Template talk:WWIIGermanAFVs/Foreign vehicle debate
I added Coelian to this list,however I was in doubt where to place it...prototypes or Flak Panzers,because only a wooden mock-up was created...feel free to correct me :) Nikolas93ts 16.00 20 Oct 2010
I think vehicles that were never actually built but designed is fine so long as they are under the Experimental heading. Oberiko 10:46, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I would suggest that, in light of the recent debate, any major change to this template by anyone be approved here first before being made. Oberiko 00:09, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have an opinion on the Armoured cars, being merged. To my mind the 221,222,223 articles are crying out for combination, but the template doesn't necessarily need altering since the space is there. GraemeLeggett 14:12, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Could I suggest we use the names Schwerer Panzerspahwagen for the six/eight wheeled variants and Leichter Panzerspahwagen for the four wheeled variants instead of the SdFkz numbers? Oberiko 12:09, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There is a problem with the new template for armored cars:
Panzerspähwagen not Panzerspahwagen. Also, the 223 and 260/1 were Panzerfunkwagen not Panzerspähwagen.
The main armored car types listed should at least include the Kfz 13/14, Sdkfz 221/22/23 260/61 Fu types, Sdkfz 231/32/63 233 (6 and 8 rad) and Sdkfz 234 types, and the Sdkfz 247 Personenkraftwagen. If all the main ones cannot be listed, it might better just to move the all the wheeled vehicles off to there own template. Starfury 00:58, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hello again! If the logic for that spelling is because its more popular, then it does not make sense to list them that way at all, as the cars are rarely organized by using those names but usually mentioned after.
Also, writing out heavy/ light armored cars in the template is about as long as just linking Kfz 13/14, Sdkfz 221/223, 231/234, 247. The 234 series is enough different to deserve its own page eventually, as it is more the just another 231 version in many respects, but it is probably fine for now.
Going back to the light/heavy issue, I have never seen them seperated with those names, only that the term is mentioned when saying the vehicles full name. Also heavy/light is not a very good seperator of functionality, for example, both the 222 and 234/1 both had a 20mm cannon. There was not much of a real split in terms of the actual vehicles, but a gradual increase in weight and capabilities between the 4 6 and 8 wheelers with various weapon mounts. I do think you could leave it, but it would a unique way of listing them, not something I have ever seen done in my experience. Starfury 18:03, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Allright then, what I will do is change the light and heavy names to the numbers on the template, since that is more common name for those vehicles. However, I will leave the page name where they are and I will not add the other vehicles to the template for now. Starfury 19:15, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Have you ever thought of splitting the template into two parts ?
This template is too big to be in one part (someone in germany called a smaller version a monster).
At least the halftrack an armored cars section should be combined into one field:
Armored half-tracks | Armored Cars |
---|
SdKfz 4, 250, 251, 252, 253 | Light armored cars, Heavy armored cars |
(just a small example) -- Denniss 18:20, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)
Armored half-tracks | Armored Cars |
---|
SdKfz 4, SdkFz 250, 251, 252, 253 | 4 wheeled, 6-8 wheeled |
GraemeLeggett 20:35, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Tank destroyers | |
---|---|
Panzerjäger I | Marder I , II , III | Hetzer | Jagdpanzer IV | Jagdpanther | Nashorn | Jagdtiger | Elefant | |
Armored half-tracks | Armored cars |
SdKfz 4 | 250 | 251 | 252 | 253 | Light armored cars | Heavy armored cars |
I've put a more subdued version of the German AFV navbox in my sandbox, at User:Mzajac/sandbox#AFV navbox. It's cleaner, but still pretty big. If splitting in two, try to keep the experimental tanks in the same infobox with the regular tanks, and experimental other in the infobox with the other, etc. — Michael Z. 2005-04-7 23:32 Z
Another solution: tank pages get a tank-only template, which also links to a compact list of all German AFVs. All tanks remain a click away, other AFVs are two clicks. Likewise for each category, which is currently a single row in the template. — Michael Z. 2005-04-7 23:38 Z
Hi Oberiko. In my default window, I never saw any line breaks, and I don't even have a very big monitor (running at 1024 px wide). Now two of the rows are awkwardly too tall. I'll change the pipe dividers to always break after; let me know if that fixes your problem. — Michael Z. 2005-04-7 23:22 Z
Might I suggest a different colour for the template - on my monitor RBG 51,153,153 is a passable match for "field grey" and a browser safe colour too. GraemeLeggett 11:19, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Jentz, Achtung! Panzer, and others say that the Panzer IX/X designs were frauds to confuse Allied intelligence agencies about German AFV plans. I've never seen any 3-views of it, or anything about them other than one hand-drawn picture of two tanks that appear to suffer from obesity. I doubt you could find any other official source to suggest a design phase, and they certainly didn't reach the prototype stage. Sacxpert 10:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
There's a discussion about AFV navigation templates at WT:AFV#Navigation templates. Topics include style, and the organization of post-WWII templates. Please discuss there. — Michael Z. 2008-08-28 00:08 z