This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Violence against men template. |
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This template was considered for deletion on 2014 June 26. The result of the discussion was "no consensus". |
Add MGM aka Male Genital Mutilation ( MGM) into this list. Reasons
so this word is totally suitable for this act. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Faulknerck2 ( talk • contribs) 06:08, 1 November 2012
The Mutilation definition is something like that.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mutilation mu·ti·late (mytl-t) tr.v. mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing, mu·ti·lates 1. To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple. 2. To disfigure by damaging irreparably: mutilate a statue. See Synonyms at batter1. 3. To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.
so cutting of a penis is indeed a mutilation. Faulknerck2 ( talk) 21:40, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
why not? what they do to male's foreskin is exactly a mutilation according to the definition of Mutilation beside cutting someone's genital off without a proper medical reason is against the medical ethics. if you don't know most of circumcisions have done for religions reasons so it's indeed a mutilation. beside I saw on wikipedia cutting off female genital named as FGM aka Female Genital Mutilation so why when it comes to males the double standard? beside it's not just circumcision
Penile superincision Penile subincision Circumcision Infibulation Penectomy
a lot of things have done on males and it's exactly same as FGM.now you tell me there isn't a MGM term? Faulk ( talk) 04:50, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
This list is about violence against men and MGM is indeed a violence, perhaps you can refer this site and see it by yourself what is MGM and the horror of MGM and how it becomes a violence. http://www.mgmbill.org Faulk ( talk) 04:53, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Violence against men MGM aka Genital Mutilation:
And there a lot of incidents like that. Did you tell me these incidents are totally okay? why the heck can't you realize these are some sort of Mutilations? Faulk ( talk) 06:17, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Zad
68
02:22, 4 November 2012 (UTC)If MGM shouldn't be in this list then why FGM in Template:Violence against women? According to your theory it's also a violence against women and it covers in both Domestic violence and Sexual violence sections. Both of these categories present in that list with FGM. Your point doesn't make any sense. Genital Mutilation isn't a sexual violence beside if something happens outside of home it isn't considered as a domestic violence. Faulk ( talk) 09:25, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
first I've made so many sources in here about that if you can't see them you must surely blind. okay I will make another sources too:
now I kindly ask you stop abusing your admin powers and leave this topic in this list. Faulk ( talk) 23:07, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Here Zad removed acid throwing, male genital mutilation and circumcision from the template, as well as putting Stop Abuse For Everyone in non-alphabetical order. I am going to revert this because I believe reliable sources DO support these changes. These are violence against men, and here is support for that:
Beyond this I am also going to add in the Brit Mala which is a ritual that adds to the abuse and violence inherent in circumcision by also incorporating sexual assault. Ranze ( talk) 04:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
20:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)The article acid throwing says that most victims (80%) are women, and the underlying source at that article supporting the figure, the documentary Defacing Women: Acid Attacks on Film, clearly characterizes acid throwing a gender-based attack against women, and does not focus on men at all. In fact the article acid throwing doesn't cover acid throwing against men at all. Before that link can be added to the template, well-sourced support for it first needs to be developed in the acid throwing article, as right now there is none. There's no justification for adding an entry to a series template directing a reader to an article that doesn't cover the template topic.
Regarding Male genital mutilation, Wikipedia actually does not have that as an article, but has Genital modification and mutilation with subsection Male genitals. Like at acid throwing, there is no content there to support the idea that it is a characteristic form of violence against men. It's also unclear why a special mention of circumcision would be needed here but not any mention of the other five types listed Genital modification and mutilation#Male genitals, so that is also unsupported. Regarding the question posed here, for circumcision in particular, it may not seem fair, but authoritative reliable sources do not equate circumcision with female genital cutting. Many people believe that, logically, they should be viewed in parallel, but the reality is that authoritative reliable sources do not treat them equally. For example, this document from the World Health Organization (WHO) treats circumcision as a largely benign practice with useful health benefits, while this other document from the WHO treats female genital mutilation as a practice to be eradicated. On Wikipedia, we don't take sides, we just make our content reflect the authoritative sources. In this case, the sources don't treat them equally, so Wikipedia content should not either.
Your removal doesn't seem justified to me. Even if the number of male victims IS as small as 20%, it is still an issue of violence against men. You also removed penis removal which clearly, in its article, cites that this is done to war captives. This is not penectomy, we are not talking about an elective surgery here, you intentionally removed an article that is about violence against men by the removal of their penis, and there's no "women are the greater victims" excuse for that. That shows a clear bias warranting removal from this discussion, I think.
So what? The film is about 'defacing women' so obviously it will focus on attacks against women, not men. Just because a specific film chooses to focus on a gendered presentation of assault doesn't mean that the violence only applies to one sex. If someone made a 'female victims of serial killers' we would not list 'serial killing' as solely a VAW and not a VAM issue.
That is because the page cleverly titles it 'modification' and focuses on that aspect. It is clearly more than a modifier, it mutilates, because it amputates healthy nerve cells. How are things like prepuce circumcision not 'violence'? This is ridiculous.
Which 'authorative reliable' sources? WHO? Are so-called "authorities" reliable if they show a bias?
So we say, but sides can be taken indirectly in regard to which sources we dub 'authority' and which we consider 'reliable'. If I located a source presenting a contrary viewpoint, that MGM is to be eradicated (or conversely, that some FGM is benign) there is no doubt people would be up in arms trying to find any reason to dub it as unreliable and without authority. By what neutral means do we consider WHO an authority? By what neutral means do we dub something like WHO reliable? Ranze ( talk) 03:13, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
03:37, 12 May 2013 (UTC)This template is about VAM as a whole, not DVAM. While I'm aware that violence against men redirects to domestic violence against men, that does not mean that solely domestic violence should be the focus of this template. If that's what you want, you can go create a template:domestic violence against men or something. Oddly enough, there is no domestic violence against women article since that just redirects to domestic violence while violence against women has its own article.
For some odd reason we have this kind of this strange difference in gender emphasis when it comes to V and DV, I couldn't tell you why, but it would be nice to correct it so that these templates could be set up in a more equivalent fashion. In both cases we should have a 'violence against sex' article and a 'domestic violence' article. I am not sure if 'domestic violence against sex' in either case would be warranted if the issues (sex-based violence, violence-type) got adequate coverage in it, but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing them to exist either.
What I am failing to see here, is your clarification for what makes something "characteristics". For example, if ~80% of acid victims are women, then would ~ 78% of murder victims being male qualify us to list 'murder' on the 'violence against men' template? Please clarify what makes something gender-characterized violence (if it's something other than statistics) so I know what you're asking about here. Ranze ( talk) 20:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Ranze ( talk) 20:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
For some odd reason we have this kind of this strange difference in gender emphasis when it comes to V and DV, I couldn't tell you why, but it would be nice to correct it so that these templates could be set up in a more equivalent fashion., I addressed this in my first reply: we just make our content reflect the authoritative sources ... the sources don't treat them equally, so Wikipedia content should not either (emphasis added). There is no reason that if sources support "X against women" then we must also have "X against men." If authoritative reliable sources also support X against men, then, yes, Wikipedia should carry that content; if they don't support it, we shouldn't have it. Here are some authoritative sources from well-respected international bodies that cover the topic "violence against women":
What sourcing can be produced for "Violence against men"? I did find this: http://www.womenshealth.gov/mens-health/violence-prevention-for-men/ which talks about violence against men a little bit, it says in the USA: Almost 90 percent of homicide victims among 18- to 24-year-olds are males, Homicide is the fourth leading cause of death for black males, and Males are almost four times more likely than females to be murdered. This is a start on support for adding homicide to this template, although it's US-specific.
Regarding "characteristic" forms, again, we look to the sources. We should not be adding targets to a template if the target article does not clearly support the context of the template.
Acid throwing does not cover acid throwing with men as the victims at all and so it is not justified to add it to the template. First, develop that content at the article, using good reliable sourcing. Then, add it to the template.
Zad
68
02:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
When exactly did this "no source is reliable enough" stuff step on the face on NPOV? The conflict is clear here: under the claim that we are simply interpreting 'good' sources, people are only declaring 'good' the sources which support their viewpoints. Any source that does not support the popular viewpoint is a 'bad' source. Assuming good faith is becoming increasingly hard when what mostly seems to happen is a focus on eliminating content and not co-operatively exploring it. You cite the UN: they are not the authorities of our knowledge. That the UN and other groups en-masse have a bias is only grounds to document that bias, not eliminate content on its basis. We can say that FGM is considered a bigger issue, but not reflect the bias that it is by only talking about it and squelching documentation of the opposite.
The PR article clearly illustrates that it happens in war, and that the penectomy article is dedicated to consented-to surgial procedures. PR must be added back, it is clearly about gendered violence as opposed to opted-in alterations. Ranze ( talk) 19:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
I've removed the massacre section, which only had one entry: Srebrenica massacre. Men have always been the primary agents and victims of war throughout history. To call out a particular battle or massacre as an attack on the male gender is absurd. There have been countless massacres throughout the history of war that mainly involved men. During World War II, the Nazis would often massacre all the male inhabitants of an occupied town if they believed there was a spy operating from the town or simply for retribution. See Massacre of Kalavryta, Lidice Massacre, and Ležáky massacre. Sometimes, however, they would massacre all the women as well, like the Khatyn massacre. If the women weren't massacred they were often raped and put into work camps instead, so it can hardly be argued that men were the only victims anyway. The goal of the Nazis wasn't to attack men, it was to attack the enemies of Germany regardless of gender. The mores of the time simply made it more acceptable to kill men during war. These "male massacres" were certainly not limited to the Nazis, however. For example, the Katyn massacre (not to be confused with the Khatyn massacre), involved almost all men, although this is because it targeted military officers, police officers, and the intelligentsia of Poland, not because it was targeting men in particular. It the same vein, the people who were killed during the Srebrenica .assacre were killed primarily because they were Muslims, not because they were male. Many women and girls were killed during the Srebrenica massacre as well, just not in mass killings. Regardless, to list every battle or massacre that primarily involved men would be to recite the entire history of human warfare. Kaldari ( talk) 04:23, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
05:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)I am confused seeing this term on the template. Is Masculism some type of violence against men? I had thought it some feminism cognate. Feminism is not part of template:violence against women so I'm confused at the presence here. Ranze ( talk) 20:46, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
02:52, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
I removed this link from the template because, although it's probably an issue for some men somewhere, it's vastly more of a female issue, and the article itself is mostly covering women; indeed, the infobox on the article is Template:Violence against women. It seems a bit misleading to say that the article is in a series about violence against men when the article barely touches on that topic at all.
If the article itself is modified with (sourced) information about male forced prostitution I probably wouldn't protest against it being added back in to the template (perhaps as a link to a specific subheading in the article?), but it's just not an article that fits this template at the moment. Sellyme Talk 06:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't agree, am putting it back. If these issues also affect men then it belongs here. People warping the articles with NPOV so that they ignore men do not negate that men have been victims of things like these. To keep it out propogates myths that men can't be victims of these crimes. Ranze ( talk) 20:16, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
It seems one person seems to be reversing any edits to this template, despite adequate reasons being given to it. I think this is a question of bias and the inclusion of certain patriarchal issues that affect women in the 'Violence against men' category threatens to undermine the 'Violence against women' category, especially as the 'Violence against men' one appears first on the page, when it in fact often covers a minority. The categories in here should be more focused on issues that specifically affect men, or at least mostly affect them. Overall, this template needs to show less bias. I have went through and removed any articles that mostly focus on women or are gender non-specific and left in the ones that do warrant the category. If anyone would like to argue for reinstatement of certain categories, then it could be possible, but at it stood before I edited, this was a very weak template. -- Drowninginlimbo ( talk) 03:15, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Re: [1] Please justify the inclusion of broad, not necessarily male-specific, or even predominantly male specific, topics in the template. For example, why is "Murder" in here? Why are the massacres of Lazaky and Lidice in here? Why is "Homicide"? Compare with the template Template:Violence against women, where pretty much everything that's in there actually belongs in there. There was a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff added to the template recently without justification in some kind of effort to "buff it up". The topics you put into a template such as this are not arbitrary and need to justified. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 21:56, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
While all forms of rape happen to men, we should not list any and all forms that can possibly happen. Rather, the focus should be on forms that predominantly or disproportionately affect men. For example, prison rape should be here but date rape (generally understood to be against women and initially coined to describe rape against women) probably shouldn't be. Issues like the FBI's updated rape definition should likely be looked if an article exists. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:37, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Violence against men template. |
|
This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This template was considered for deletion on 2014 June 26. The result of the discussion was "no consensus". |
Add MGM aka Male Genital Mutilation ( MGM) into this list. Reasons
so this word is totally suitable for this act. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Faulknerck2 ( talk • contribs) 06:08, 1 November 2012
The Mutilation definition is something like that.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mutilation mu·ti·late (mytl-t) tr.v. mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing, mu·ti·lates 1. To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple. 2. To disfigure by damaging irreparably: mutilate a statue. See Synonyms at batter1. 3. To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.
so cutting of a penis is indeed a mutilation. Faulknerck2 ( talk) 21:40, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
why not? what they do to male's foreskin is exactly a mutilation according to the definition of Mutilation beside cutting someone's genital off without a proper medical reason is against the medical ethics. if you don't know most of circumcisions have done for religions reasons so it's indeed a mutilation. beside I saw on wikipedia cutting off female genital named as FGM aka Female Genital Mutilation so why when it comes to males the double standard? beside it's not just circumcision
Penile superincision Penile subincision Circumcision Infibulation Penectomy
a lot of things have done on males and it's exactly same as FGM.now you tell me there isn't a MGM term? Faulk ( talk) 04:50, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
This list is about violence against men and MGM is indeed a violence, perhaps you can refer this site and see it by yourself what is MGM and the horror of MGM and how it becomes a violence. http://www.mgmbill.org Faulk ( talk) 04:53, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Violence against men MGM aka Genital Mutilation:
And there a lot of incidents like that. Did you tell me these incidents are totally okay? why the heck can't you realize these are some sort of Mutilations? Faulk ( talk) 06:17, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Zad
68
02:22, 4 November 2012 (UTC)If MGM shouldn't be in this list then why FGM in Template:Violence against women? According to your theory it's also a violence against women and it covers in both Domestic violence and Sexual violence sections. Both of these categories present in that list with FGM. Your point doesn't make any sense. Genital Mutilation isn't a sexual violence beside if something happens outside of home it isn't considered as a domestic violence. Faulk ( talk) 09:25, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
first I've made so many sources in here about that if you can't see them you must surely blind. okay I will make another sources too:
now I kindly ask you stop abusing your admin powers and leave this topic in this list. Faulk ( talk) 23:07, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Here Zad removed acid throwing, male genital mutilation and circumcision from the template, as well as putting Stop Abuse For Everyone in non-alphabetical order. I am going to revert this because I believe reliable sources DO support these changes. These are violence against men, and here is support for that:
Beyond this I am also going to add in the Brit Mala which is a ritual that adds to the abuse and violence inherent in circumcision by also incorporating sexual assault. Ranze ( talk) 04:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
20:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)The article acid throwing says that most victims (80%) are women, and the underlying source at that article supporting the figure, the documentary Defacing Women: Acid Attacks on Film, clearly characterizes acid throwing a gender-based attack against women, and does not focus on men at all. In fact the article acid throwing doesn't cover acid throwing against men at all. Before that link can be added to the template, well-sourced support for it first needs to be developed in the acid throwing article, as right now there is none. There's no justification for adding an entry to a series template directing a reader to an article that doesn't cover the template topic.
Regarding Male genital mutilation, Wikipedia actually does not have that as an article, but has Genital modification and mutilation with subsection Male genitals. Like at acid throwing, there is no content there to support the idea that it is a characteristic form of violence against men. It's also unclear why a special mention of circumcision would be needed here but not any mention of the other five types listed Genital modification and mutilation#Male genitals, so that is also unsupported. Regarding the question posed here, for circumcision in particular, it may not seem fair, but authoritative reliable sources do not equate circumcision with female genital cutting. Many people believe that, logically, they should be viewed in parallel, but the reality is that authoritative reliable sources do not treat them equally. For example, this document from the World Health Organization (WHO) treats circumcision as a largely benign practice with useful health benefits, while this other document from the WHO treats female genital mutilation as a practice to be eradicated. On Wikipedia, we don't take sides, we just make our content reflect the authoritative sources. In this case, the sources don't treat them equally, so Wikipedia content should not either.
Your removal doesn't seem justified to me. Even if the number of male victims IS as small as 20%, it is still an issue of violence against men. You also removed penis removal which clearly, in its article, cites that this is done to war captives. This is not penectomy, we are not talking about an elective surgery here, you intentionally removed an article that is about violence against men by the removal of their penis, and there's no "women are the greater victims" excuse for that. That shows a clear bias warranting removal from this discussion, I think.
So what? The film is about 'defacing women' so obviously it will focus on attacks against women, not men. Just because a specific film chooses to focus on a gendered presentation of assault doesn't mean that the violence only applies to one sex. If someone made a 'female victims of serial killers' we would not list 'serial killing' as solely a VAW and not a VAM issue.
That is because the page cleverly titles it 'modification' and focuses on that aspect. It is clearly more than a modifier, it mutilates, because it amputates healthy nerve cells. How are things like prepuce circumcision not 'violence'? This is ridiculous.
Which 'authorative reliable' sources? WHO? Are so-called "authorities" reliable if they show a bias?
So we say, but sides can be taken indirectly in regard to which sources we dub 'authority' and which we consider 'reliable'. If I located a source presenting a contrary viewpoint, that MGM is to be eradicated (or conversely, that some FGM is benign) there is no doubt people would be up in arms trying to find any reason to dub it as unreliable and without authority. By what neutral means do we consider WHO an authority? By what neutral means do we dub something like WHO reliable? Ranze ( talk) 03:13, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
03:37, 12 May 2013 (UTC)This template is about VAM as a whole, not DVAM. While I'm aware that violence against men redirects to domestic violence against men, that does not mean that solely domestic violence should be the focus of this template. If that's what you want, you can go create a template:domestic violence against men or something. Oddly enough, there is no domestic violence against women article since that just redirects to domestic violence while violence against women has its own article.
For some odd reason we have this kind of this strange difference in gender emphasis when it comes to V and DV, I couldn't tell you why, but it would be nice to correct it so that these templates could be set up in a more equivalent fashion. In both cases we should have a 'violence against sex' article and a 'domestic violence' article. I am not sure if 'domestic violence against sex' in either case would be warranted if the issues (sex-based violence, violence-type) got adequate coverage in it, but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing them to exist either.
What I am failing to see here, is your clarification for what makes something "characteristics". For example, if ~80% of acid victims are women, then would ~ 78% of murder victims being male qualify us to list 'murder' on the 'violence against men' template? Please clarify what makes something gender-characterized violence (if it's something other than statistics) so I know what you're asking about here. Ranze ( talk) 20:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Ranze ( talk) 20:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
For some odd reason we have this kind of this strange difference in gender emphasis when it comes to V and DV, I couldn't tell you why, but it would be nice to correct it so that these templates could be set up in a more equivalent fashion., I addressed this in my first reply: we just make our content reflect the authoritative sources ... the sources don't treat them equally, so Wikipedia content should not either (emphasis added). There is no reason that if sources support "X against women" then we must also have "X against men." If authoritative reliable sources also support X against men, then, yes, Wikipedia should carry that content; if they don't support it, we shouldn't have it. Here are some authoritative sources from well-respected international bodies that cover the topic "violence against women":
What sourcing can be produced for "Violence against men"? I did find this: http://www.womenshealth.gov/mens-health/violence-prevention-for-men/ which talks about violence against men a little bit, it says in the USA: Almost 90 percent of homicide victims among 18- to 24-year-olds are males, Homicide is the fourth leading cause of death for black males, and Males are almost four times more likely than females to be murdered. This is a start on support for adding homicide to this template, although it's US-specific.
Regarding "characteristic" forms, again, we look to the sources. We should not be adding targets to a template if the target article does not clearly support the context of the template.
Acid throwing does not cover acid throwing with men as the victims at all and so it is not justified to add it to the template. First, develop that content at the article, using good reliable sourcing. Then, add it to the template.
Zad
68
02:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
When exactly did this "no source is reliable enough" stuff step on the face on NPOV? The conflict is clear here: under the claim that we are simply interpreting 'good' sources, people are only declaring 'good' the sources which support their viewpoints. Any source that does not support the popular viewpoint is a 'bad' source. Assuming good faith is becoming increasingly hard when what mostly seems to happen is a focus on eliminating content and not co-operatively exploring it. You cite the UN: they are not the authorities of our knowledge. That the UN and other groups en-masse have a bias is only grounds to document that bias, not eliminate content on its basis. We can say that FGM is considered a bigger issue, but not reflect the bias that it is by only talking about it and squelching documentation of the opposite.
The PR article clearly illustrates that it happens in war, and that the penectomy article is dedicated to consented-to surgial procedures. PR must be added back, it is clearly about gendered violence as opposed to opted-in alterations. Ranze ( talk) 19:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
I've removed the massacre section, which only had one entry: Srebrenica massacre. Men have always been the primary agents and victims of war throughout history. To call out a particular battle or massacre as an attack on the male gender is absurd. There have been countless massacres throughout the history of war that mainly involved men. During World War II, the Nazis would often massacre all the male inhabitants of an occupied town if they believed there was a spy operating from the town or simply for retribution. See Massacre of Kalavryta, Lidice Massacre, and Ležáky massacre. Sometimes, however, they would massacre all the women as well, like the Khatyn massacre. If the women weren't massacred they were often raped and put into work camps instead, so it can hardly be argued that men were the only victims anyway. The goal of the Nazis wasn't to attack men, it was to attack the enemies of Germany regardless of gender. The mores of the time simply made it more acceptable to kill men during war. These "male massacres" were certainly not limited to the Nazis, however. For example, the Katyn massacre (not to be confused with the Khatyn massacre), involved almost all men, although this is because it targeted military officers, police officers, and the intelligentsia of Poland, not because it was targeting men in particular. It the same vein, the people who were killed during the Srebrenica .assacre were killed primarily because they were Muslims, not because they were male. Many women and girls were killed during the Srebrenica massacre as well, just not in mass killings. Regardless, to list every battle or massacre that primarily involved men would be to recite the entire history of human warfare. Kaldari ( talk) 04:23, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
05:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)I am confused seeing this term on the template. Is Masculism some type of violence against men? I had thought it some feminism cognate. Feminism is not part of template:violence against women so I'm confused at the presence here. Ranze ( talk) 20:46, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
02:52, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
I removed this link from the template because, although it's probably an issue for some men somewhere, it's vastly more of a female issue, and the article itself is mostly covering women; indeed, the infobox on the article is Template:Violence against women. It seems a bit misleading to say that the article is in a series about violence against men when the article barely touches on that topic at all.
If the article itself is modified with (sourced) information about male forced prostitution I probably wouldn't protest against it being added back in to the template (perhaps as a link to a specific subheading in the article?), but it's just not an article that fits this template at the moment. Sellyme Talk 06:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't agree, am putting it back. If these issues also affect men then it belongs here. People warping the articles with NPOV so that they ignore men do not negate that men have been victims of things like these. To keep it out propogates myths that men can't be victims of these crimes. Ranze ( talk) 20:16, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
It seems one person seems to be reversing any edits to this template, despite adequate reasons being given to it. I think this is a question of bias and the inclusion of certain patriarchal issues that affect women in the 'Violence against men' category threatens to undermine the 'Violence against women' category, especially as the 'Violence against men' one appears first on the page, when it in fact often covers a minority. The categories in here should be more focused on issues that specifically affect men, or at least mostly affect them. Overall, this template needs to show less bias. I have went through and removed any articles that mostly focus on women or are gender non-specific and left in the ones that do warrant the category. If anyone would like to argue for reinstatement of certain categories, then it could be possible, but at it stood before I edited, this was a very weak template. -- Drowninginlimbo ( talk) 03:15, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Re: [1] Please justify the inclusion of broad, not necessarily male-specific, or even predominantly male specific, topics in the template. For example, why is "Murder" in here? Why are the massacres of Lazaky and Lidice in here? Why is "Homicide"? Compare with the template Template:Violence against women, where pretty much everything that's in there actually belongs in there. There was a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff added to the template recently without justification in some kind of effort to "buff it up". The topics you put into a template such as this are not arbitrary and need to justified. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 21:56, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
While all forms of rape happen to men, we should not list any and all forms that can possibly happen. Rather, the focus should be on forms that predominantly or disproportionately affect men. For example, prison rape should be here but date rape (generally understood to be against women and initially coined to describe rape against women) probably shouldn't be. Issues like the FBI's updated rape definition should likely be looked if an article exists. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:37, 29 May 2017 (UTC)