![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Summary: Should version history tables in software articles be generalized in terms of version stages, labels and colors? Jesus Presley ( talk) 03:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Colour | Label/Meaning |
---|---|
Red #F06C47 | Old release; no longer supported |
Lt.green #CEE482 | Older release; still supported |
Green #9DD12F | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 | Test release / preview version |
Yellow#FCED77 | Future release |
Colour | Label/Meaning |
---|---|
Red salmon | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow khaki | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A | Current release |
Purple Plum | Test release / preview version |
Blue skyBlue | Future release |
Description: | |
---|---|
|
Note: I modified my original post because the display of the example tables was cluttered, also the choice between several options had to be made clearer. I didn't mess with statements of other users.
Colour | Label/Meaning |
---|---|
Red salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Lt.green #CEE482 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #9DD12F link | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FCED77 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A link | Current release |
Purple #E6A7E6 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FCED77 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A link | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Color | Meaning |
---|---|
Red | Old release |
Green | Stable release |
Blue | Beta release |
Purple | Dev release |
Taking in suggestions and comments, I deduced that
Therefore I decided to use these colors in the template from now:
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FCED77 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A link | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Thanks for all your contributions, of course I welcome everybody to work on this template as well. Jesus Presley ( talk) 00:48, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #FDB3AB link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FEF8C6 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #D4F4B4 link | Current release |
Orange #FED1A0 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue #C1E6F5 link | Future release or developer version |
Now that this Template is created, this Talk Page should probably focus on fulfilling the standard To-Do List already posted. We should also Archive the initial creation discussion, although for some reason every time I wrote an Archive Box for that Section it would come out wrong and look weird. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
I find it odd that the above Section closed before it was created. It must be a glitch of some sort in the date stamps.
Anyway, the Microsoft Office applications Word, Excel, and PowerPoint are likely to have highly trafficked Articles here on Wikipedia, seeing as they are the most widely used applications in the world's most widely used suite. None of their respective Articles currently use this now-standardized Template (which, I'm proud to say, I was part of that original discussion).
Therefore, I respectfully propose a task force to implement this Template on all software Articles whose subjects are part of the MS Office suite, including the 3 programs (Word, Excel, and PowerPoint) that I mentioned above. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:09, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I wanted to change the red in LibreOffice, but I see it's part of the template. It's a bit dark and a bit saturated. (Personally I'd rather a dull grey.) Was there any particular reason for the red? - David Gerard ( talk) 22:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Other commenters have expressed concern for blind or visually impaired readers who have their browsers integrated with text-to-voice programs, but also that such a text column would make the table "look less elegant" for the rest of us who can see it. So, I was thinking that we could implement some sort of programming loop or nested If/Else series that would adapt this Template to each browser. If the browser is hooked up to a voice-to-text application on that particular device, the algorithm would add a "Support status" text column to the right of the color-coded version numbers column. If the browser on a given device is not integrated with a voice-to-text program, the "Support status" column would be disabled on that particular copy of whichever browser happens to be downloaded to that device.
I hope everything I explained above makes sense.
Does this helping the blind and elegance "compromise" (for want of a better word) make sense to the rest of us here? The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Unfortunately, this template is inaccessible to people with colour-blindness and some other visual disabilities (and won't help when printed in black & white), because it relies on colour to convey information; because the contrast between adjacent colours is insufficient; and because the information it conveys is not available to people who cannot see the page (e.g blind people who have pages read out loud to them by assistive software). This fails international standard web accessibility guidelines and our own Manual of style. The issue affects both the template, and tables which rely in its colour scheme. We need to find an alternative, accessible, method of conveying the information; probably by adding an extra column to tables with text values. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:14, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
We are not relying solely on color code with this Template. On the contrary, the Template was created with the assumption that the information summarized in the Template is already written in the actual text of the respective Article. As long as that is the case, it shouldn't be a crime to have an additional summary that works for those of us with healthy color vision.
Anyone seriously looking up a software Article should actually read the Article anyway, whether their color vision is good or not. I brought up this very point when this very topic was discussed half a dozen times before this Template was created, and it remains valid. Unless either (A) color blind people are a much higher percentage of the population now than they were then, which I doubt considering these past discussions were all in the last 2 years or so, or (B) software Articles are that much more poorly written now than they were then, in which case editing this Template isn't the solution. The real solution, if B is true, is to edit the various software Articles so that this Template is in fact a mere augmentation and not something entirely relied upon as such.
The Red, Yellow, and Green used in this Template were originally the very same shades of those colors used in traffic lights. Whoever edited the Green to be that much more Yellowish-Green, I agree that that change should be reverted. Other than that, has anyone here read the Archived past discussions on this very topic? As I said above, this Template is not relied upon at all if the respective software Article is well-written; it is just a little something extra for those of us with healthy color vision and nothing more. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:28, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Color | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #FDB3AB link | Former release, no longer supported |
Yellow #FEF8C6 link | Former release, still supported |
Green #D4F4B4 link | Current release |
Orange #FED1A0 link | Preview release (Beta) |
Blue #C1E6F5 link | Future release or developer version (Alpha) |
Per the above discussion, I've lightened the colours to The Mysterious El Willstro's proposed colours above. There's presumably a long purge running in the job queue, but the effects should be visible in a while.
Looking at the horrible, horrible template code, I have no idea how to add a screen-reader-friendly text column to it. Anyone? - David Gerard ( talk) 12:42, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Just now, I implemented this Template for Microsoft Word (which is probably the, singular, most well-known software program in the world). Soon, let's do the same for the other Microsoft Office Articles, including Excel and PowerPoint. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 06:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello
I hope Rukario-sama, TheDJ, and YannickFran are notified and are seeing this.
Having observed multiple occurrences of aberrant behavior around this template around Wikipedia ( example is rev. 720355016), things came to a head with revision 720508806 by Ziov, which had observed the entire Microsoft Windows article after this tag had become centered.
Having observed this piece of broken code:
|l=<div class="templateVersion l" {{{style|}}}">
...I decided there is probably more broken things and reverted the template to revision of 00:03, 21 February 2015 (UTC) by Frietjes.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 13:45, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
<div />
that should become an empty <div>...</div>
? Also, can you give me more information about that change to "MediaWiki parser sometime this year"? Thanks. Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 14:18, 16 May 2016 (UTC)<div style="clear: left;" /></div>
<div style="clear: left;"></div></div>
</div>
belongs the entire block.The backgrounds in the "version" column are color coded and labeled in a way such that non-sighted users, and likely some color-blind users, cannot match colors to their labels. A possible solution might be to add text superscripts to version numbers. Matt Fitzpatrick ( talk) 04:42, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
<td class="templateVersion c" style="background-color: #D4F4B4;" title="Current stable version" data-sort-value="3.0 Z"><span style="display: none;">Current stable version:</span><b>3.0</b></td>
<td class="templateVersion c" style="background-color: #D4F4B4;" title="Current stable version" data-sort-value="3.0 Z"><span style="display: none;">Current stable version:</span><b>3.0</b><sup>c</sup></td>
3.0 c | 2012-06-23 | Release to web |
4.0 f | 2013-09-06 | Future version |
I'm refering to status "Older version, still supported". Many open source project are part of different long term support distributions. e.g. Debian, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, SUSE. These distributions provide solid support for whatever version of the project was available during distribution release. e.g. `git-scm` project does not provide patches for anything earlier than 2.13 but such distros do support 2.9 or even 1.x versions of git. I'm not sure what the label should read exactly. Since the product might be non-open-source the label should apply to non-open-source products as well. I'm thinking about "Older version, supported by developer". Akostadi ( talk) 18:17, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Could "Latest preview version" be renamed to "Preview version" or "Preview versions" ?
As there could be more than one preview due to different or paralles development paths (e.g Windows 10)
And if only the latest preview should get this setting (cp) there is no more category left for a preview which is not the latest one.
If you set the not latest preview to (co) it would mislead cause it looks like an older non-preview release.
Especially here, people always "fight" about the term LATEST Preview
/info/en/?search=Template:Windows_10_versions
/info/en/?search=Windows_10_version_history
2001:16B8:243:F900:98B5:4518:7394:A276 ( talk) 19:38, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
This template displays badly when a user has dark mode enabled. I simply would like to add to wherever templateVersion is coming from the option in the colored cells to NOT change the text color to white and keep the text black. Wiki Tables display fine unless a template has modified the background color, which this one has, and the white text on the colored background is unreadable even by someone without Accessibility needs.
The tag in the css that is needed around the additional options is: @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) { } for each of the o, co, c, cp, and p options. WikiMathematician ([[User talk: WikiMathematician|talk]]) 00:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Currently one can not indicate that a version is old but will still receive security updates (but no further support/features) with this template. This would be useful e.g. in the case of Xenforo where 1.5 will still receive security updates even after normal support was dropped. [1] Other projects might also profit from that.
The only issue that I currently see is that the obvious new color for that category doesn't really work out well as orange is used for latest preview. (Which I would expect "Older version, security updates" or something along that line to use) Maybe a different color (pink/purple/violette?) could be used for the latest preview? (Or turquoise if we want to go with a more rainbow-ish scheme) Alternatively such color could be used for the security updates. -- Phoenix616 ( talk) 17:51, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Isn’t this the “co” option? WikiMathematician ( talk) 00:04, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Summary: Should version history tables in software articles be generalized in terms of version stages, labels and colors? Jesus Presley ( talk) 03:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Colour | Label/Meaning |
---|---|
Red #F06C47 | Old release; no longer supported |
Lt.green #CEE482 | Older release; still supported |
Green #9DD12F | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 | Test release / preview version |
Yellow#FCED77 | Future release |
Colour | Label/Meaning |
---|---|
Red salmon | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow khaki | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A | Current release |
Purple Plum | Test release / preview version |
Blue skyBlue | Future release |
Description: | |
---|---|
|
Note: I modified my original post because the display of the example tables was cluttered, also the choice between several options had to be made clearer. I didn't mess with statements of other users.
Colour | Label/Meaning |
---|---|
Red salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Lt.green #CEE482 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #9DD12F link | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FCED77 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A link | Current release |
Purple #E6A7E6 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FCED77 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A link | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Color | Meaning |
---|---|
Red | Old release |
Green | Stable release |
Blue | Beta release |
Purple | Dev release |
Taking in suggestions and comments, I deduced that
Therefore I decided to use these colors in the template from now:
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #salmon link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FCED77 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #A0E75A link | Current release |
Orange #FCB058 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue skyBlue link | Future release or developer version |
Thanks for all your contributions, of course I welcome everybody to work on this template as well. Jesus Presley ( talk) 00:48, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Colour | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #FDB3AB link | Old release; no longer supported |
Yellow #FEF8C6 link | Older release; still supported |
Green #D4F4B4 link | Current release |
Orange #FED1A0 link | Preview or beta release |
Blue #C1E6F5 link | Future release or developer version |
Now that this Template is created, this Talk Page should probably focus on fulfilling the standard To-Do List already posted. We should also Archive the initial creation discussion, although for some reason every time I wrote an Archive Box for that Section it would come out wrong and look weird. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
I find it odd that the above Section closed before it was created. It must be a glitch of some sort in the date stamps.
Anyway, the Microsoft Office applications Word, Excel, and PowerPoint are likely to have highly trafficked Articles here on Wikipedia, seeing as they are the most widely used applications in the world's most widely used suite. None of their respective Articles currently use this now-standardized Template (which, I'm proud to say, I was part of that original discussion).
Therefore, I respectfully propose a task force to implement this Template on all software Articles whose subjects are part of the MS Office suite, including the 3 programs (Word, Excel, and PowerPoint) that I mentioned above. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:09, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I wanted to change the red in LibreOffice, but I see it's part of the template. It's a bit dark and a bit saturated. (Personally I'd rather a dull grey.) Was there any particular reason for the red? - David Gerard ( talk) 22:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Other commenters have expressed concern for blind or visually impaired readers who have their browsers integrated with text-to-voice programs, but also that such a text column would make the table "look less elegant" for the rest of us who can see it. So, I was thinking that we could implement some sort of programming loop or nested If/Else series that would adapt this Template to each browser. If the browser is hooked up to a voice-to-text application on that particular device, the algorithm would add a "Support status" text column to the right of the color-coded version numbers column. If the browser on a given device is not integrated with a voice-to-text program, the "Support status" column would be disabled on that particular copy of whichever browser happens to be downloaded to that device.
I hope everything I explained above makes sense.
Does this helping the blind and elegance "compromise" (for want of a better word) make sense to the rest of us here? The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Unfortunately, this template is inaccessible to people with colour-blindness and some other visual disabilities (and won't help when printed in black & white), because it relies on colour to convey information; because the contrast between adjacent colours is insufficient; and because the information it conveys is not available to people who cannot see the page (e.g blind people who have pages read out loud to them by assistive software). This fails international standard web accessibility guidelines and our own Manual of style. The issue affects both the template, and tables which rely in its colour scheme. We need to find an alternative, accessible, method of conveying the information; probably by adding an extra column to tables with text values. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:14, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
We are not relying solely on color code with this Template. On the contrary, the Template was created with the assumption that the information summarized in the Template is already written in the actual text of the respective Article. As long as that is the case, it shouldn't be a crime to have an additional summary that works for those of us with healthy color vision.
Anyone seriously looking up a software Article should actually read the Article anyway, whether their color vision is good or not. I brought up this very point when this very topic was discussed half a dozen times before this Template was created, and it remains valid. Unless either (A) color blind people are a much higher percentage of the population now than they were then, which I doubt considering these past discussions were all in the last 2 years or so, or (B) software Articles are that much more poorly written now than they were then, in which case editing this Template isn't the solution. The real solution, if B is true, is to edit the various software Articles so that this Template is in fact a mere augmentation and not something entirely relied upon as such.
The Red, Yellow, and Green used in this Template were originally the very same shades of those colors used in traffic lights. Whoever edited the Green to be that much more Yellowish-Green, I agree that that change should be reverted. Other than that, has anyone here read the Archived past discussions on this very topic? As I said above, this Template is not relied upon at all if the respective software Article is well-written; it is just a little something extra for those of us with healthy color vision and nothing more. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 08:28, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Color | Meaning |
---|---|
Red #FDB3AB link | Former release, no longer supported |
Yellow #FEF8C6 link | Former release, still supported |
Green #D4F4B4 link | Current release |
Orange #FED1A0 link | Preview release (Beta) |
Blue #C1E6F5 link | Future release or developer version (Alpha) |
Per the above discussion, I've lightened the colours to The Mysterious El Willstro's proposed colours above. There's presumably a long purge running in the job queue, but the effects should be visible in a while.
Looking at the horrible, horrible template code, I have no idea how to add a screen-reader-friendly text column to it. Anyone? - David Gerard ( talk) 12:42, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Just now, I implemented this Template for Microsoft Word (which is probably the, singular, most well-known software program in the world). Soon, let's do the same for the other Microsoft Office Articles, including Excel and PowerPoint. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 06:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello
I hope Rukario-sama, TheDJ, and YannickFran are notified and are seeing this.
Having observed multiple occurrences of aberrant behavior around this template around Wikipedia ( example is rev. 720355016), things came to a head with revision 720508806 by Ziov, which had observed the entire Microsoft Windows article after this tag had become centered.
Having observed this piece of broken code:
|l=<div class="templateVersion l" {{{style|}}}">
...I decided there is probably more broken things and reverted the template to revision of 00:03, 21 February 2015 (UTC) by Frietjes.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 13:45, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
<div />
that should become an empty <div>...</div>
? Also, can you give me more information about that change to "MediaWiki parser sometime this year"? Thanks. Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 14:18, 16 May 2016 (UTC)<div style="clear: left;" /></div>
<div style="clear: left;"></div></div>
</div>
belongs the entire block.The backgrounds in the "version" column are color coded and labeled in a way such that non-sighted users, and likely some color-blind users, cannot match colors to their labels. A possible solution might be to add text superscripts to version numbers. Matt Fitzpatrick ( talk) 04:42, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
<td class="templateVersion c" style="background-color: #D4F4B4;" title="Current stable version" data-sort-value="3.0 Z"><span style="display: none;">Current stable version:</span><b>3.0</b></td>
<td class="templateVersion c" style="background-color: #D4F4B4;" title="Current stable version" data-sort-value="3.0 Z"><span style="display: none;">Current stable version:</span><b>3.0</b><sup>c</sup></td>
3.0 c | 2012-06-23 | Release to web |
4.0 f | 2013-09-06 | Future version |
I'm refering to status "Older version, still supported". Many open source project are part of different long term support distributions. e.g. Debian, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, SUSE. These distributions provide solid support for whatever version of the project was available during distribution release. e.g. `git-scm` project does not provide patches for anything earlier than 2.13 but such distros do support 2.9 or even 1.x versions of git. I'm not sure what the label should read exactly. Since the product might be non-open-source the label should apply to non-open-source products as well. I'm thinking about "Older version, supported by developer". Akostadi ( talk) 18:17, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Could "Latest preview version" be renamed to "Preview version" or "Preview versions" ?
As there could be more than one preview due to different or paralles development paths (e.g Windows 10)
And if only the latest preview should get this setting (cp) there is no more category left for a preview which is not the latest one.
If you set the not latest preview to (co) it would mislead cause it looks like an older non-preview release.
Especially here, people always "fight" about the term LATEST Preview
/info/en/?search=Template:Windows_10_versions
/info/en/?search=Windows_10_version_history
2001:16B8:243:F900:98B5:4518:7394:A276 ( talk) 19:38, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
This template displays badly when a user has dark mode enabled. I simply would like to add to wherever templateVersion is coming from the option in the colored cells to NOT change the text color to white and keep the text black. Wiki Tables display fine unless a template has modified the background color, which this one has, and the white text on the colored background is unreadable even by someone without Accessibility needs.
The tag in the css that is needed around the additional options is: @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) { } for each of the o, co, c, cp, and p options. WikiMathematician ([[User talk: WikiMathematician|talk]]) 00:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Currently one can not indicate that a version is old but will still receive security updates (but no further support/features) with this template. This would be useful e.g. in the case of Xenforo where 1.5 will still receive security updates even after normal support was dropped. [1] Other projects might also profit from that.
The only issue that I currently see is that the obvious new color for that category doesn't really work out well as orange is used for latest preview. (Which I would expect "Older version, security updates" or something along that line to use) Maybe a different color (pink/purple/violette?) could be used for the latest preview? (Or turquoise if we want to go with a more rainbow-ish scheme) Alternatively such color could be used for the security updates. -- Phoenix616 ( talk) 17:51, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Isn’t this the “co” option? WikiMathematician ( talk) 00:04, 16 July 2021 (UTC)