Television Template‑class | |||||||
|
Could a column for 18–49 rating be added, as seen at
The 100 (TV series)#Ratings? It would either need to be behind a |show_18_49=
parameter, or if we want to be consistent, |hide_18_49=
and go through existing transclusions with AWB to add that parameter.
nyuszika7h (
talk)
21:37, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me why the timeslot exists on this template? It violates WP:NOTDIR as Wikipedia is not a TV guide and has been implemented endlessly on TV show articles. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 05:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
@
AlexTheWhovian: Could you possibly answer my previous messages? "Again, it shows a date and time for a show from seasons, as if it were a TV guide regardless of what table/template or content it represents. It still violates the policy. Frankly, if it can't be applied here, then why have NOTDIR in the first place?"
and "Then, what you're saying is that if we included the time of a premiere date in the lead of a season article, it violates policy. But in this case, it doesn't? Someone should seriously straighten this out.
Thanks,
Callmemirela 🍁
{Talk}
♑
05:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
All the discussion above aside, regarding whether it violates WP:NOTDIR or not, why is there no option to hide the timeslot column? Sure, readers want to compare what happens to the ratings when the show is moved to another night, and there has been some talk about how some shows are moved during mid-season. The big four broadcast networks in the U.S. (ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX) are likely to stay firm with what night their programming airs, but when you get to cable broadcasters, and I especially notice this with Disney Channel in particular, it's up in the air. A show on DC can air on a given day and night one week, and then several weeks later, it's moved to some other time. And it's even more messed up. Recently, two shows on that channel, Stuck in the Middle and Best Friends Whenever, had week-long runs of new episodes where they had the show on each weeknight, Monday thru Friday, instead of the usual night(s) these shows air. With how DC is scheduling their programming (won't single just them out, but not sure about other cable networks), I don't know what use there is for the timeslot column, and a number of articles for currently-running Disney Channel shows are employing use of this ratings table. When the show moves to another night (and these changes are happening during a given season, not just when switching from one season to the next), editors are inclined to put in all the timeslots these shows have aired in—and yeah, that's clearly against WP:NOTDIR. But again, there are networks that do not stay firm to keeping a show consistently airing on a given night and time, and the column is deemed useless. What difference would it make about a show's ratings if the show doesn't air consistently on the same night of the week and time? And especially when you consider children's networks like Disney and Nickelodeon? So why not have option to hide the column? MPFitz1968 ( talk) 22:14, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Done nyuszika7h ( talk) 12:40, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
This
sparked the thought that should we be hiding the TV season column for cable shows (AMC, FX, HBO, Showtime)? Because, the U.S. "TV season", as in September to May, is for broadcast network, not cable. To use Fear the Walking Dead for example, it's incorrect to say the first season aired during the
2014–15 United States network television schedule when it aired from August to October 2015. Should this become to norm for cable shows, employing the hide_tv_season
parameter in the template? Thoughts?
Drovethrughosts (
talk)
21:37, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
How can I remove this parameter from the template?. What I mean is that I do not want it to be displayed in certain articles.-- Philip J Fry : Talk 00:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
I think it's pretty clear from the documentation that totals include only the whole season. -- / Alex/ 21 03:47, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
The official average viewers released by the network for the entire season...Nothing there says it has to only be used for an entire season, as you claim. There's certainly nothing that says using the average for a season thus far is prohibited and only an average for a completed season is allowed. Point me to even a guideline page that mentions anything about this. Amaury • 06:08, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
You made the bold edit, got reverted, and chose to revert in your usual insistence that you were right. You're the one who was edit warring here.- Looking at the edit history, after his bold edit Alex reverted once while Amaury reverted twice. If this dispute was between an experienced editor and a newbie than that might have been understandable but you are both experienced editors and it takes 2 to edit-war.
This is part of what AussieLegend said in a somewhat similar discussion a few years back revolving around the ordering of episodes on Earth 2.- Wow! Even I don't remember that discussion. ;)
status quos are not policy.- True but both of you are experienced enough to know to follow WP:BRD and reverting per WP:STATUSQUO is something we do regularly when edits are disputed.
Personally, I find the partial season ratings data useful when I want to see how a show is performing so far; and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Since each individual episode rating is sourced and the average is calculated using Math, it doesn't count as WP:SYNTHESIS or WP:OR. So, while the guideline doesn't specifically spell out anything about partial ratings, I think they're an improvement to the encyclopedia.— Starforce13 16:36, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
for the total episodes, rather than how many have aired. - Brojam ( talk) 23:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
should reflect the number of episodes that contribute to the average given in the last column. I personally feel that sufficiently explains it, but we can always elaborate to make it super clear and include something to the effect of what you said above of the average, for example, being for episodes 1–6. There's certainly no harm in clarity. Add: In response to your statement saying this should only be done for cable series, yes, I agree. As it so happens, articles for cable television series are the only ones I watch and maintain regularly. If broadcast series have official averages released by the network, then we should use those. Not that doing it the way we do for cable series is necessarily wrong, but in that case, the official averages released by the networks are just the better ones to use. Amaury • 22:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
provided there is consensus among editors that the result of the calculation is obvious, correct, and a meaningful reflection of the sources.No sources reflect these partial averages; if so, please show which source shows the partial averages.
I'm sure it's partly how networks may determine when to or if they will renew a series.Seems like WP:OR to me.
On the user talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include: Editors who have made substantial edits to the topic or article, editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics).The editors I invited are editors who watch the article, and nowhere did I say, "Hey, take my side!" It was a neutral invitation to a discussion if they were interested. But then again, I wouldn't expect you to understand such complex words since your reading level is no higher than a kindergartner's. So you should screw off on actual false allegations, as you're only making things worse for yourself. And either way, it doesn't change the fact you admitted as much to contribution stalking me. Your reasons are irrelevant.
Hi, I would like to use this template in some pages, however, the current column possibilities are less than what I can code manually. For example, many reality shows air two seasons per television season. I'd like to see a TV Season Length column. Also, it's great that there's an 18–49 rating column, however, there is no 18–49 rank column as there is for viewership. I would like to see an 18–49 rank column in this template.
Just to sum up, I think these would make great additions to this template and would justify its use where it currently isn't warranted:
Thanks! I believe this would allow the template to be used in a lot more articles. Heartfox ( talk) 19:15, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Season | Timeslot ( ET) | Episodes | First aired | Last aired | TV season | Viewership rank |
Avg. viewers (millions) |
18–49 rank |
Avg. 18–49 rating | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Date | Viewers (millions) |
Date | Viewers (millions) | ||||||||
1 | |||||||||||
2 | |||||||||||
3 |
Any chance the 18-49 rank column could not be added by default? Even when it's not included in the table, you have to force it not to appear with hide_18_49_rank
. I'm not familiar with coding, but can't it be done where columns only appear when there is something filled in, eliminating the need for the "hide" attribute? Thanks.
Drovethrughosts (
talk)
15:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
|hide_18_49_rank=
is exactly the same as hiding other columns with |hide_rank=
or |hide_18_49_rating=
, so there is conformity between those last four statistic columns by showing them all by default and offering the option to hide them individually. -- /
Alex/
21
07:11, 23 April 2020 (UTC)Hi Alex 21 and others, do you think "timeslot" should be used, or perhaps it should be switched to "time slot" given it seems to be the more widely used form of the word. There is currently a comment on an open FAC that "time slot" is perhaps the correct form. I don't want to remove a whole template to spell a word differently; do you think this should be applied to the other templates as well? Or, would you say there is a strong consensus or something to use "timeslot"? Just trying to find a solution. Heartfox ( talk) 19:18, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Television Template‑class | |||||||
|
Could a column for 18–49 rating be added, as seen at
The 100 (TV series)#Ratings? It would either need to be behind a |show_18_49=
parameter, or if we want to be consistent, |hide_18_49=
and go through existing transclusions with AWB to add that parameter.
nyuszika7h (
talk)
21:37, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me why the timeslot exists on this template? It violates WP:NOTDIR as Wikipedia is not a TV guide and has been implemented endlessly on TV show articles. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 05:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
@
AlexTheWhovian: Could you possibly answer my previous messages? "Again, it shows a date and time for a show from seasons, as if it were a TV guide regardless of what table/template or content it represents. It still violates the policy. Frankly, if it can't be applied here, then why have NOTDIR in the first place?"
and "Then, what you're saying is that if we included the time of a premiere date in the lead of a season article, it violates policy. But in this case, it doesn't? Someone should seriously straighten this out.
Thanks,
Callmemirela 🍁
{Talk}
♑
05:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
All the discussion above aside, regarding whether it violates WP:NOTDIR or not, why is there no option to hide the timeslot column? Sure, readers want to compare what happens to the ratings when the show is moved to another night, and there has been some talk about how some shows are moved during mid-season. The big four broadcast networks in the U.S. (ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX) are likely to stay firm with what night their programming airs, but when you get to cable broadcasters, and I especially notice this with Disney Channel in particular, it's up in the air. A show on DC can air on a given day and night one week, and then several weeks later, it's moved to some other time. And it's even more messed up. Recently, two shows on that channel, Stuck in the Middle and Best Friends Whenever, had week-long runs of new episodes where they had the show on each weeknight, Monday thru Friday, instead of the usual night(s) these shows air. With how DC is scheduling their programming (won't single just them out, but not sure about other cable networks), I don't know what use there is for the timeslot column, and a number of articles for currently-running Disney Channel shows are employing use of this ratings table. When the show moves to another night (and these changes are happening during a given season, not just when switching from one season to the next), editors are inclined to put in all the timeslots these shows have aired in—and yeah, that's clearly against WP:NOTDIR. But again, there are networks that do not stay firm to keeping a show consistently airing on a given night and time, and the column is deemed useless. What difference would it make about a show's ratings if the show doesn't air consistently on the same night of the week and time? And especially when you consider children's networks like Disney and Nickelodeon? So why not have option to hide the column? MPFitz1968 ( talk) 22:14, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Done nyuszika7h ( talk) 12:40, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
This
sparked the thought that should we be hiding the TV season column for cable shows (AMC, FX, HBO, Showtime)? Because, the U.S. "TV season", as in September to May, is for broadcast network, not cable. To use Fear the Walking Dead for example, it's incorrect to say the first season aired during the
2014–15 United States network television schedule when it aired from August to October 2015. Should this become to norm for cable shows, employing the hide_tv_season
parameter in the template? Thoughts?
Drovethrughosts (
talk)
21:37, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
How can I remove this parameter from the template?. What I mean is that I do not want it to be displayed in certain articles.-- Philip J Fry : Talk 00:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
I think it's pretty clear from the documentation that totals include only the whole season. -- / Alex/ 21 03:47, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
The official average viewers released by the network for the entire season...Nothing there says it has to only be used for an entire season, as you claim. There's certainly nothing that says using the average for a season thus far is prohibited and only an average for a completed season is allowed. Point me to even a guideline page that mentions anything about this. Amaury • 06:08, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
You made the bold edit, got reverted, and chose to revert in your usual insistence that you were right. You're the one who was edit warring here.- Looking at the edit history, after his bold edit Alex reverted once while Amaury reverted twice. If this dispute was between an experienced editor and a newbie than that might have been understandable but you are both experienced editors and it takes 2 to edit-war.
This is part of what AussieLegend said in a somewhat similar discussion a few years back revolving around the ordering of episodes on Earth 2.- Wow! Even I don't remember that discussion. ;)
status quos are not policy.- True but both of you are experienced enough to know to follow WP:BRD and reverting per WP:STATUSQUO is something we do regularly when edits are disputed.
Personally, I find the partial season ratings data useful when I want to see how a show is performing so far; and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Since each individual episode rating is sourced and the average is calculated using Math, it doesn't count as WP:SYNTHESIS or WP:OR. So, while the guideline doesn't specifically spell out anything about partial ratings, I think they're an improvement to the encyclopedia.— Starforce13 16:36, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
for the total episodes, rather than how many have aired. - Brojam ( talk) 23:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
should reflect the number of episodes that contribute to the average given in the last column. I personally feel that sufficiently explains it, but we can always elaborate to make it super clear and include something to the effect of what you said above of the average, for example, being for episodes 1–6. There's certainly no harm in clarity. Add: In response to your statement saying this should only be done for cable series, yes, I agree. As it so happens, articles for cable television series are the only ones I watch and maintain regularly. If broadcast series have official averages released by the network, then we should use those. Not that doing it the way we do for cable series is necessarily wrong, but in that case, the official averages released by the networks are just the better ones to use. Amaury • 22:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
provided there is consensus among editors that the result of the calculation is obvious, correct, and a meaningful reflection of the sources.No sources reflect these partial averages; if so, please show which source shows the partial averages.
I'm sure it's partly how networks may determine when to or if they will renew a series.Seems like WP:OR to me.
On the user talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include: Editors who have made substantial edits to the topic or article, editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics).The editors I invited are editors who watch the article, and nowhere did I say, "Hey, take my side!" It was a neutral invitation to a discussion if they were interested. But then again, I wouldn't expect you to understand such complex words since your reading level is no higher than a kindergartner's. So you should screw off on actual false allegations, as you're only making things worse for yourself. And either way, it doesn't change the fact you admitted as much to contribution stalking me. Your reasons are irrelevant.
Hi, I would like to use this template in some pages, however, the current column possibilities are less than what I can code manually. For example, many reality shows air two seasons per television season. I'd like to see a TV Season Length column. Also, it's great that there's an 18–49 rating column, however, there is no 18–49 rank column as there is for viewership. I would like to see an 18–49 rank column in this template.
Just to sum up, I think these would make great additions to this template and would justify its use where it currently isn't warranted:
Thanks! I believe this would allow the template to be used in a lot more articles. Heartfox ( talk) 19:15, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Season | Timeslot ( ET) | Episodes | First aired | Last aired | TV season | Viewership rank |
Avg. viewers (millions) |
18–49 rank |
Avg. 18–49 rating | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Date | Viewers (millions) |
Date | Viewers (millions) | ||||||||
1 | |||||||||||
2 | |||||||||||
3 |
Any chance the 18-49 rank column could not be added by default? Even when it's not included in the table, you have to force it not to appear with hide_18_49_rank
. I'm not familiar with coding, but can't it be done where columns only appear when there is something filled in, eliminating the need for the "hide" attribute? Thanks.
Drovethrughosts (
talk)
15:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
|hide_18_49_rank=
is exactly the same as hiding other columns with |hide_rank=
or |hide_18_49_rating=
, so there is conformity between those last four statistic columns by showing them all by default and offering the option to hide them individually. -- /
Alex/
21
07:11, 23 April 2020 (UTC)Hi Alex 21 and others, do you think "timeslot" should be used, or perhaps it should be switched to "time slot" given it seems to be the more widely used form of the word. There is currently a comment on an open FAC that "time slot" is perhaps the correct form. I don't want to remove a whole template to spell a word differently; do you think this should be applied to the other templates as well? Or, would you say there is a strong consensus or something to use "timeslot"? Just trying to find a solution. Heartfox ( talk) 19:18, 16 December 2020 (UTC)