This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Television Rotten Tomatoes scores template. |
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![]() | Television Template‑class | ||||||
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After changing the color in {{ Game of Thrones RT scores S7}} to #091411 , in order to match the color in the season article, the graph looked kind of weird ( diff). Until the problem has been fixed, i am using #000000 instead.
Is there some way that we could control the alignment of this template in articles, rather than it only ever appearing in the centre of the page with big chunks of whitespace on either side? It could just be an alignment parametre with the default as is, and then left and right options that have text wrapping of some sort. - adamstom97 ( talk) 10:28, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Reverting on the basis of WP:BOLD seems curiously contradictory considering the page begins by saying 'Be bold can be explained in three words: "Go for it".' I note that IPs aren't allowed to create template sandbox pages (nice job, Wikipedia). Given that {{ Line chart}} fails to display at all on the mobile site, and that the mobile site accounts for half of English Wikipedia's traffic, it would seem valuable to make the graphs available to the whole of the site's audience. The lack of any actual justification for reverting suggests the more relevant page here is in fact WP:OWN. 202.159.169.45 ( talk) 18:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
And WP:SQS says that when you say "discuss first" you are expected to explain your revert, otherwise the other editor may find it difficult to assume good faith. We are currently having a discussion about having a discussion. This is not building consensus, it's stonewalling and BRD misuse.No. You stated "It says that a revert after a bold edit should be followed by a discussion."
It's the first thing you noted in this discussion, and the only possible valid arguement you have presented so far. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to talk about SP, and your unproven suspicions should not affect the template and the reader's experience on this site.The suspicious IP account was just an interesting note
What's with the ostrich effect? Are you actually questioning that there is currently a problem with this template (and EasyTimeline in general) on mobile view?Again, this template has existed for three years without any issues
So, we should continue smoking, until a cure for cancer is found? What kind of logic is that? Shouldn't it be the other way around?It seems that the Phabricator report is still underway, so that should conclude first before we make such hasty decisions.
I don't know why the graph doesn't display in the old revision directly. You can see a working version if you try to edit the source of the old revision and where it says "Preview page with this template" put "Template:Television Rotten Tomatoes scores/doc" and hit "Show preview". This is what you will see.Looking at the "new" code, it seems that the image is not generated in the graph.
Yes. There was no discussion until the IP started one two days ago. Who would have thought, right? Are you asking me why i didn't open the discussion myself Alex? Radiphus ( talk) 17:09, 11 September 2019 (UTC)By the way, the edits and reverts were almost two weeks ago, and you saw the edit before the revert, but are only just commenting now? Was there a reason for the delay?
NOTE: there was an edit conflict when I went to save this page. I haven't changed this reply to account for Radiphus' latest reply.
Are you really suggesting 'No need. I'm arguing with someone who isn't here to build an encyclopedia, just here to make personal attacks. Thank you for your contributions!' constitutes a discussion about the content of the template? Because it's really more of a refusal to discuss.
Anyway, as you have, at last, raised some issues that can be discussed - though not in replies to me! - I shall attempt to discuss them:
'Tis regrettable you don't want to report me to WP:SPI. 202.159.169.45 ( talk) 18:38, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Season 9 (2019): Percentage of positive critics' reviews tracked by the website Rotten Tomatoes[1] |
Per the documentation, included is One parameter for each episode, and parameters may be included but not set - these will include an entry on the episode axis for the episode, but the entry for the episode will remain empty (i.e. for currently-airing seasons).
This is no longer the case. This can be seen above in Template 1. For the above example in Template 2, the template has ten parameters ready for values, but only one is set (given that only one episode has aired). All episodes should be displayed on the x-axis, with empty values for episodes 2 through 10. This is no longer the case. Now we have a ridiculous view of only one episode and one value. Fix this, else the template will need to be restored to its previously-working state. -- /
Alex/
21 12:45, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
I've created a new episodes
parameter (which can be removed once the season has finished) to accommodate this. It inserts scores of 100 for the number of episodes specified and is set to be fully transparent & thus invisible. The problem is that the symbols don't honour the opacity settings. I've posted messages at the Graph:Chart talk page and VPT to alert editors to this problem. Anyway, here's the current state of play.
Using episodes
:
|
NOT using episodes=
:
|
202.159.169.45 ( talk) 04:05, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I've noticed a few articles using this template and I have fundamental concerns that this is an inappropriate and inaccurate way to present the data. Specifically I don't think this is an appropriate use of line graph, because of the way it joins episodes and discrete chunks of information together. A bar chart seems like it would be a more appropriate way to present the same data.
I strongly suggest reading " The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" by Edward R. Tufte, or any data scientist or statistician, or any kind of relevant expert at all. -- 109.78.215.166 ( talk) 16:57, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Does anybody else get a dashed line when hovering over 97?
Emir of Wikipedia (
talk) 20:14, 21 February 2021 (UTC) (please
mention me on reply; thanks!)
It seems you can only add up to 20 scores, I'm wondering if this can be increased? This will be an issue for The Walking Dead (season 10) as the season will now contain 22 episodes as opposed to 16. Thanks. Drovethrughosts ( talk) 20:52, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
This is generally an excellent template with one major flaw: It compresses the Y axis without strongly emphasizing that it has done so. Unless every episode or season has a perfect score, by compressing the Y axis it gives the reader the sense that there was a drastic dip in critical approval at one point. Only by viewing small, unemphasized text on the left side does one realize that it's compressed.
Given that these graphs serve as eye catching shorthand to the casual viewer, I think this needs to be addressed. Some possible solutions:
Thoughts? Other ideas? -- sarysa ( talk) 22:20, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
|yAxisMin=
in the {{
Graph:Chart}} that could help with showing the whole Y axis. —
El Millo (
talk) 00:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)I think this graph is generally a terrible idea and far worse than "useless at a glance". The distortion caused by the compression of the Y-axis is merely yet another reason why it is terrible and should not be used. There's "Lies damned lies and statistics" but this graph never even says anything interesting or insightful, a good distortion of the data would at least be interesting. It's bad science and should not be acceptable in an encyclopedia on that basis alone, but most editors should be able to recognize that the graph isn't actually being used to saying anything worthwhile.
Maybe this template could be salvaged but I can't help thinking it is fundamentally flawed. Is there someone from
Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics with a background in statistics who could take a look at this and better explain why I'm wrong and it isn't actually terrible (or not)? --
109.79.161.25 (
talk) 00:38, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
This template is basically a specialized version of {{
Graph:Chart}}. That template has the parameter |yAxisMin=
, which is filled with code that makes it automatically adjust the Y axis to the values included. We can very easily just add the possibility to override that if desired and manually put the Y axis minimum, just to be able to do it in specific articles. If we want that to be the new default, however, we must have an RfC for it. —
El Millo (
talk) 03:49, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Examples
| ||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Here's an example with the bottom at 60:
and with the bottom at 0:
|
A little late but I did it. Templates with only fresh scores (60–100) will not go above 60 as the minimum value of the y axis. Templates with scores below 60 will function as it did already, the minimum set 10 numbers below the lowest score. |yAxisMin=
can be used to customize the number as long as the value entered is lower that what would automatically be set. —
El Millo (
talk) 03:18, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
References
This template has been continuing to not function on all integral television and movie media articles. I do not have the coding experience to suggest changes, but I suspect this template will be a future liability without action to find, address and fix code problems. I do not know who this will go to, but I hope that this may inspire action. 3vvww661 ( talk) 23:31, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Television Rotten Tomatoes scores template. |
|
![]() | Television Template‑class | ||||||
|
After changing the color in {{ Game of Thrones RT scores S7}} to #091411 , in order to match the color in the season article, the graph looked kind of weird ( diff). Until the problem has been fixed, i am using #000000 instead.
Is there some way that we could control the alignment of this template in articles, rather than it only ever appearing in the centre of the page with big chunks of whitespace on either side? It could just be an alignment parametre with the default as is, and then left and right options that have text wrapping of some sort. - adamstom97 ( talk) 10:28, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Reverting on the basis of WP:BOLD seems curiously contradictory considering the page begins by saying 'Be bold can be explained in three words: "Go for it".' I note that IPs aren't allowed to create template sandbox pages (nice job, Wikipedia). Given that {{ Line chart}} fails to display at all on the mobile site, and that the mobile site accounts for half of English Wikipedia's traffic, it would seem valuable to make the graphs available to the whole of the site's audience. The lack of any actual justification for reverting suggests the more relevant page here is in fact WP:OWN. 202.159.169.45 ( talk) 18:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
And WP:SQS says that when you say "discuss first" you are expected to explain your revert, otherwise the other editor may find it difficult to assume good faith. We are currently having a discussion about having a discussion. This is not building consensus, it's stonewalling and BRD misuse.No. You stated "It says that a revert after a bold edit should be followed by a discussion."
It's the first thing you noted in this discussion, and the only possible valid arguement you have presented so far. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to talk about SP, and your unproven suspicions should not affect the template and the reader's experience on this site.The suspicious IP account was just an interesting note
What's with the ostrich effect? Are you actually questioning that there is currently a problem with this template (and EasyTimeline in general) on mobile view?Again, this template has existed for three years without any issues
So, we should continue smoking, until a cure for cancer is found? What kind of logic is that? Shouldn't it be the other way around?It seems that the Phabricator report is still underway, so that should conclude first before we make such hasty decisions.
I don't know why the graph doesn't display in the old revision directly. You can see a working version if you try to edit the source of the old revision and where it says "Preview page with this template" put "Template:Television Rotten Tomatoes scores/doc" and hit "Show preview". This is what you will see.Looking at the "new" code, it seems that the image is not generated in the graph.
Yes. There was no discussion until the IP started one two days ago. Who would have thought, right? Are you asking me why i didn't open the discussion myself Alex? Radiphus ( talk) 17:09, 11 September 2019 (UTC)By the way, the edits and reverts were almost two weeks ago, and you saw the edit before the revert, but are only just commenting now? Was there a reason for the delay?
NOTE: there was an edit conflict when I went to save this page. I haven't changed this reply to account for Radiphus' latest reply.
Are you really suggesting 'No need. I'm arguing with someone who isn't here to build an encyclopedia, just here to make personal attacks. Thank you for your contributions!' constitutes a discussion about the content of the template? Because it's really more of a refusal to discuss.
Anyway, as you have, at last, raised some issues that can be discussed - though not in replies to me! - I shall attempt to discuss them:
'Tis regrettable you don't want to report me to WP:SPI. 202.159.169.45 ( talk) 18:38, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Season 9 (2019): Percentage of positive critics' reviews tracked by the website Rotten Tomatoes[1] |
Per the documentation, included is One parameter for each episode, and parameters may be included but not set - these will include an entry on the episode axis for the episode, but the entry for the episode will remain empty (i.e. for currently-airing seasons).
This is no longer the case. This can be seen above in Template 1. For the above example in Template 2, the template has ten parameters ready for values, but only one is set (given that only one episode has aired). All episodes should be displayed on the x-axis, with empty values for episodes 2 through 10. This is no longer the case. Now we have a ridiculous view of only one episode and one value. Fix this, else the template will need to be restored to its previously-working state. -- /
Alex/
21 12:45, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
I've created a new episodes
parameter (which can be removed once the season has finished) to accommodate this. It inserts scores of 100 for the number of episodes specified and is set to be fully transparent & thus invisible. The problem is that the symbols don't honour the opacity settings. I've posted messages at the Graph:Chart talk page and VPT to alert editors to this problem. Anyway, here's the current state of play.
Using episodes
:
|
NOT using episodes=
:
|
202.159.169.45 ( talk) 04:05, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I've noticed a few articles using this template and I have fundamental concerns that this is an inappropriate and inaccurate way to present the data. Specifically I don't think this is an appropriate use of line graph, because of the way it joins episodes and discrete chunks of information together. A bar chart seems like it would be a more appropriate way to present the same data.
I strongly suggest reading " The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" by Edward R. Tufte, or any data scientist or statistician, or any kind of relevant expert at all. -- 109.78.215.166 ( talk) 16:57, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Does anybody else get a dashed line when hovering over 97?
Emir of Wikipedia (
talk) 20:14, 21 February 2021 (UTC) (please
mention me on reply; thanks!)
It seems you can only add up to 20 scores, I'm wondering if this can be increased? This will be an issue for The Walking Dead (season 10) as the season will now contain 22 episodes as opposed to 16. Thanks. Drovethrughosts ( talk) 20:52, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
This is generally an excellent template with one major flaw: It compresses the Y axis without strongly emphasizing that it has done so. Unless every episode or season has a perfect score, by compressing the Y axis it gives the reader the sense that there was a drastic dip in critical approval at one point. Only by viewing small, unemphasized text on the left side does one realize that it's compressed.
Given that these graphs serve as eye catching shorthand to the casual viewer, I think this needs to be addressed. Some possible solutions:
Thoughts? Other ideas? -- sarysa ( talk) 22:20, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
|yAxisMin=
in the {{
Graph:Chart}} that could help with showing the whole Y axis. —
El Millo (
talk) 00:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)I think this graph is generally a terrible idea and far worse than "useless at a glance". The distortion caused by the compression of the Y-axis is merely yet another reason why it is terrible and should not be used. There's "Lies damned lies and statistics" but this graph never even says anything interesting or insightful, a good distortion of the data would at least be interesting. It's bad science and should not be acceptable in an encyclopedia on that basis alone, but most editors should be able to recognize that the graph isn't actually being used to saying anything worthwhile.
Maybe this template could be salvaged but I can't help thinking it is fundamentally flawed. Is there someone from
Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics with a background in statistics who could take a look at this and better explain why I'm wrong and it isn't actually terrible (or not)? --
109.79.161.25 (
talk) 00:38, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
This template is basically a specialized version of {{
Graph:Chart}}. That template has the parameter |yAxisMin=
, which is filled with code that makes it automatically adjust the Y axis to the values included. We can very easily just add the possibility to override that if desired and manually put the Y axis minimum, just to be able to do it in specific articles. If we want that to be the new default, however, we must have an RfC for it. —
El Millo (
talk) 03:49, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Examples
| ||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Here's an example with the bottom at 60:
and with the bottom at 0:
|
A little late but I did it. Templates with only fresh scores (60–100) will not go above 60 as the minimum value of the y axis. Templates with scores below 60 will function as it did already, the minimum set 10 numbers below the lowest score. |yAxisMin=
can be used to customize the number as long as the value entered is lower that what would automatically be set. —
El Millo (
talk) 03:18, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
References
This template has been continuing to not function on all integral television and movie media articles. I do not have the coding experience to suggest changes, but I suspect this template will be a future liability without action to find, address and fix code problems. I do not know who this will go to, but I hope that this may inspire action. 3vvww661 ( talk) 23:31, 30 June 2023 (UTC)