hi, what do you think, if the template for tv resolution looks like this de:Vorlage:Arbeitsgemeinschaft der öffentlich-rechtlichen Rundfunkanstalten der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (taken from this template: de:Vorlage:Navigationsleiste_mit_Bild)? so the image of the different resolutions is visable has a link to the bigger version, and the link beneath can be deleted)
I fixed some errors, particularly 720i, and resolutions being devalued due to low frame rate. It might be better to drop frame rates entirely. 1080i and 1080p don't belong in the same class since there is quite a difference, (even when 1080i signals are deinterlaced.) but I wasn't sure what to call 1080p, so I ended up with "HDTV+". I'd prefer some title connecting it with 35mm film quality. Algr 05:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the formatting fix. (How do you move columns like that?) However you have reintroduced the problem of resolutions being devalued due to low frame rate. An HDTV signal remains HD even if it is showing a still image, (0 hz) so 480p doesn't drop to SDTV simply because it is 24 hz and not 60 hz. Also, there is a huge difference between broadcastable 1080i, and the 1080p you see in the movies. (1080i broadcasts have reduced horizional resolution, obvious compression artifacts, and the losses due to interlace.) So these shouldn't be lumped together into the same category. Algr 16:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
rowspan
and colspan
attributes or at
table markup in general.I pulled the frame rates from the template. As it was, you'd already have to understand it to figure out what frame rate was going where. And in any case, frame rate is irrelevant to resolution. A 1080p still image is still HDTV. Algr 05:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I think you are trying to lump too much data into one table and ending up with something that just doesn't work. Now the table includes 576/60p and 480/50p, which no one has ever wanted. (Readers are never going to guess what those semicolons are supposed to mean. ) Frame rates have nothing to do with resolution, they should have their own table. HDTV is inherently complex, so we need to work hard to keep things clear. BTW, what don't you like about the illustration? Algr 15:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Much discussion is taking place here... Image_talk:Resolution_chart.svg
Tvaughan1 20:38, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the reversion, but that version included numbers that do not exist in any real standard. 480p and 576p do not use square pixels, so multiplying by the aspect ratio does not get you the correct horizontal pixel count. The correct pixel count is 720 horizontal for both wide and 4:3 versions of both PAL and NTSC DV. (The US standard DTV permits 640x480 as well, but I don't know if anyone uses it - no videotape standard permits 640x480.) Algr 06:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Moved by Algr:
Revert. 852 or 768 horizontal are not part of any standard. (non-square pixels)
To visualise a comparison of video resolutions, you could for instance use a checkboard pattern with (macroblock-like) segments sized 8 × 8 or 16 × 16 pixels in the stored / transmitted format (like 720 × 576 with 6480 or 1620 fields), which is then stretched (or maybe cropped) to the displayed resolution (like 768 × 576 or 960 × 540). You could use any other image instead of course, but I think a simple square pattern was an adequate choice. Visualising the effects of (de)interlacing isn't easy in a still image (and it is unnecessary for correctly handled film mode of course); any try will never be accurate nor accepted by everyone. What you can try to show are the methods and (side) effects of different variants of deinterlacing. The required bandwidth can be quite well shown with 3D diagrams (width, height, frequency). More or less common (digital) horizontal resolutions accompanying 576 lines vertically (and 50 Hz) are 352, 480, 544, 704, 720, with either 4:3 or 16:9 dispaly aspect ratio, by the way. Someone should list all common TV display resolutions, old and new (e.g. 640 × 480 and 1366 × 768). Christoph Päper 21:44, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
hi ho everyone, for me it is not clear which purpose this template has. is it an info box explaing the techniques or a navigation box for linking several articles with it? as far as i know the intention of the initial template was for navigation, but now it seems that this changes to an infobox. please do not make the mistake to use a navi box for explaing, please seperate this! as a user i do not want to understand the displayed facts when just getting to another article. if you want to create an infobox for several articles then you should consider to explain more by using old fashion texts in it. e.g. i do not know if you guys mean by "1:1 PAR", i think it ist 1:1 pixel ascpect ratio, but a newbie does not know that! this should be clearly written and written as an wikilink. whether you want to keep it clear and simple as a navi box should be to get from here to there fastly or you should use more text and more "space". the current middle way of both is not a good compromise. that as an first reaction i will now read the rest of your postings. please give me some time ;). greets, -- Andreas -horn- Hornig 14:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
You'll notice that I've added EDTV and HDV to the image. I have not changed the representation of the 480p box in order to keep the edit non-controversial. The representations I added are differentiated from the standard resolutions by their being displayed at 25% opacity (which indicates that they exist, but are less common). That said, both are still common enough to warrant inclusion and to be helpful to a reader. As a final note regarding HDV, the image displays resolutions at a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, and the vast majority of HDV is effectively only 1920x1080 with a non-square PAR. Noclip 22:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I think it looks better; but the tables were hard to put into the navbox format. There's a different table for each row now... what do you guys think? atanamir 22:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
The NTSC resolution is currently incorrectly listed as 480 lines. It should be 486 or 525, as there are normally 525 lines in a NTSC image, but only 486 of those are in the visible area. Many NTSC digital capture systems only capture 480 lines, hence the confusion. -- Ozhiker ( talk) 23:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Template doesn’t stay hidden, if you revisit the page after closing it, this doesn’t seem right. Looks like it's not saving its 'state' can someone look in to it?
— IncidentFlux ( talk) 19:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Should 2160p (Quad Full High Definition) be added to this template? Quad Full High Definition, also known as "QFHD", "Quad HD" and "Quad HDTV" is 3840x2160 is more or less agreed upon to be high-definition TV standard that will someday replace 1080p Gamester17 ( talk) 12:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
On my TV horizontaly (longer part) number of RGB colums is 320 and verticaly about 440 rows, so I gues actual TV resolution is 320*480 pixels, instead dreamed 640*480 for xbox/PS2. HDTV may be just nice Antialiasing or by TV itself... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fsahfkagn ( talk • contribs) 09:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
hi, what do you think, if the template for tv resolution looks like this de:Vorlage:Arbeitsgemeinschaft der öffentlich-rechtlichen Rundfunkanstalten der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (taken from this template: de:Vorlage:Navigationsleiste_mit_Bild)? so the image of the different resolutions is visable has a link to the bigger version, and the link beneath can be deleted)
I fixed some errors, particularly 720i, and resolutions being devalued due to low frame rate. It might be better to drop frame rates entirely. 1080i and 1080p don't belong in the same class since there is quite a difference, (even when 1080i signals are deinterlaced.) but I wasn't sure what to call 1080p, so I ended up with "HDTV+". I'd prefer some title connecting it with 35mm film quality. Algr 05:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the formatting fix. (How do you move columns like that?) However you have reintroduced the problem of resolutions being devalued due to low frame rate. An HDTV signal remains HD even if it is showing a still image, (0 hz) so 480p doesn't drop to SDTV simply because it is 24 hz and not 60 hz. Also, there is a huge difference between broadcastable 1080i, and the 1080p you see in the movies. (1080i broadcasts have reduced horizional resolution, obvious compression artifacts, and the losses due to interlace.) So these shouldn't be lumped together into the same category. Algr 16:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
rowspan
and colspan
attributes or at
table markup in general.I pulled the frame rates from the template. As it was, you'd already have to understand it to figure out what frame rate was going where. And in any case, frame rate is irrelevant to resolution. A 1080p still image is still HDTV. Algr 05:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I think you are trying to lump too much data into one table and ending up with something that just doesn't work. Now the table includes 576/60p and 480/50p, which no one has ever wanted. (Readers are never going to guess what those semicolons are supposed to mean. ) Frame rates have nothing to do with resolution, they should have their own table. HDTV is inherently complex, so we need to work hard to keep things clear. BTW, what don't you like about the illustration? Algr 15:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Much discussion is taking place here... Image_talk:Resolution_chart.svg
Tvaughan1 20:38, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the reversion, but that version included numbers that do not exist in any real standard. 480p and 576p do not use square pixels, so multiplying by the aspect ratio does not get you the correct horizontal pixel count. The correct pixel count is 720 horizontal for both wide and 4:3 versions of both PAL and NTSC DV. (The US standard DTV permits 640x480 as well, but I don't know if anyone uses it - no videotape standard permits 640x480.) Algr 06:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Moved by Algr:
Revert. 852 or 768 horizontal are not part of any standard. (non-square pixels)
To visualise a comparison of video resolutions, you could for instance use a checkboard pattern with (macroblock-like) segments sized 8 × 8 or 16 × 16 pixels in the stored / transmitted format (like 720 × 576 with 6480 or 1620 fields), which is then stretched (or maybe cropped) to the displayed resolution (like 768 × 576 or 960 × 540). You could use any other image instead of course, but I think a simple square pattern was an adequate choice. Visualising the effects of (de)interlacing isn't easy in a still image (and it is unnecessary for correctly handled film mode of course); any try will never be accurate nor accepted by everyone. What you can try to show are the methods and (side) effects of different variants of deinterlacing. The required bandwidth can be quite well shown with 3D diagrams (width, height, frequency). More or less common (digital) horizontal resolutions accompanying 576 lines vertically (and 50 Hz) are 352, 480, 544, 704, 720, with either 4:3 or 16:9 dispaly aspect ratio, by the way. Someone should list all common TV display resolutions, old and new (e.g. 640 × 480 and 1366 × 768). Christoph Päper 21:44, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
hi ho everyone, for me it is not clear which purpose this template has. is it an info box explaing the techniques or a navigation box for linking several articles with it? as far as i know the intention of the initial template was for navigation, but now it seems that this changes to an infobox. please do not make the mistake to use a navi box for explaing, please seperate this! as a user i do not want to understand the displayed facts when just getting to another article. if you want to create an infobox for several articles then you should consider to explain more by using old fashion texts in it. e.g. i do not know if you guys mean by "1:1 PAR", i think it ist 1:1 pixel ascpect ratio, but a newbie does not know that! this should be clearly written and written as an wikilink. whether you want to keep it clear and simple as a navi box should be to get from here to there fastly or you should use more text and more "space". the current middle way of both is not a good compromise. that as an first reaction i will now read the rest of your postings. please give me some time ;). greets, -- Andreas -horn- Hornig 14:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
You'll notice that I've added EDTV and HDV to the image. I have not changed the representation of the 480p box in order to keep the edit non-controversial. The representations I added are differentiated from the standard resolutions by their being displayed at 25% opacity (which indicates that they exist, but are less common). That said, both are still common enough to warrant inclusion and to be helpful to a reader. As a final note regarding HDV, the image displays resolutions at a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, and the vast majority of HDV is effectively only 1920x1080 with a non-square PAR. Noclip 22:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I think it looks better; but the tables were hard to put into the navbox format. There's a different table for each row now... what do you guys think? atanamir 22:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
The NTSC resolution is currently incorrectly listed as 480 lines. It should be 486 or 525, as there are normally 525 lines in a NTSC image, but only 486 of those are in the visible area. Many NTSC digital capture systems only capture 480 lines, hence the confusion. -- Ozhiker ( talk) 23:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Template doesn’t stay hidden, if you revisit the page after closing it, this doesn’t seem right. Looks like it's not saving its 'state' can someone look in to it?
— IncidentFlux ( talk) 19:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Should 2160p (Quad Full High Definition) be added to this template? Quad Full High Definition, also known as "QFHD", "Quad HD" and "Quad HDTV" is 3840x2160 is more or less agreed upon to be high-definition TV standard that will someday replace 1080p Gamester17 ( talk) 12:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
On my TV horizontaly (longer part) number of RGB colums is 320 and verticaly about 440 rows, so I gues actual TV resolution is 320*480 pixels, instead dreamed 640*480 for xbox/PS2. HDTV may be just nice Antialiasing or by TV itself... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fsahfkagn ( talk • contribs) 09:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC)