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Call me crazy, but I think THIS image - the encircled "i" - should be SVG! It seems a bit odd that it's PNG. (Yes, I know the original is an icon provided as PNG. But an information symbol is a good target for conversion to SVG.) El T 11:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to put this tag on (the en:Image page for) images which are fetched automatically from Commons? (I have in mind Image:Gosper_curve_3.png, for one.) — Blotwell 02:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't this template be on Commons as well? I find it funny that it's only on English Wikipedia right now. -- Geopgeop 20:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is Image:Information_icon.svg changed to Image:Gtk-dialog-info.svg? -- 80.63.213.182 18:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
There's been some discussion that SVG logos may be fair-use violations. While I don't agree with this (a 1kb SVG is no more "infinite resolution" than a 200x200 raster image that's blown up to 5000x5000... what matters is not the size you can blow an image up to, what matters is how much detail the image actually contains). Anyway, while I don't agree with this, it sounds like a number of people do, so it may be better to hold off on putting this tag on more logos. And if there's firm consensus that logos shouldn't be converted to SVG, the template should probably be removed from all logos. -- Interiot 21:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Was there a decision on this? I'd like to remove logos from this category as it is very huge and, as you said, time would be better spent improving free images. I'm also going through and putting some of these images up at WP:GL to get them off of this list.↔ NMajdan• talk• EditorReview 15:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Should we have users stop adding images to this category? There is such a huge backlog of images, including many that probably shouldn't be converted to SVG. We now have the Graphics Lab that handles these conversions so any requests should go there, not here.↔ NMajdan• talk 18:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
On Wikimedia Commons there is an analogous Template to this one, called {{{Template:Convert to SVG}}}. It has one important feature, however, that I think might be worth adding to our template on Wikipedia. That is, when someone places the {{{Convert to SVG}}} tag, they have the option of adding a parameter: for example, {{{Convert to SVG|flag}}}. Doing so will add the image to a sub-category of commons:Category:Images that should use vector graphics based on the parameter supplied (e.g. the tag chemical will place the image in commons:Category:Chemical images that should use vector graphics). Given the huge number of images we have tagged with this template, I believe think this functionality would be useful. In particular, I can see it having an effect similar to that of stub sorting -- it would make it easy for someone with specific expertise (for example, making SVG chemical diagrams) to find images to convert. What do you think? MithrandirMage 03:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
MithrandirMage, et al, do you think we should add an option "sexposition"? There are quite a few such images lying around the category, and they will require somewhat... unique SVG skills to convert! Or should we lump such images in with "anatomy"? Cheers, Stannered 23:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Given that we've lost consensus on the FU Logo/SVG "issue", should we add "|fairuse" as a parameter to split off all images which have the {{ logo}} template or similar attached? I for one don't convert such images due to their questionable copyright status, and they're starting to form the majority of the clutter... Or am I being silly? Stannered 11:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to Interiot's good faith assertion that there is no basis in law or consensus that logos should not be uploaded in SVG format, there is ample evidence of both.
(self-pagerism from another conversation on this subject below)
WP:LOGO states:
“ | Overly high-resolution versions of logos should be avoided, however, as they are less likely to be fair use. Do not use SVG formats, as this can infringe on fair use. However, if vector artwork is available, they can be rasterized to a screen-resolution PNG format. | ” |
This is because they are fair use images. To comply with fair use requirements, at least in the U.S., I can't speak to the laws elsewhere, the reproduction of the copyrighted work must be as minimal as possible to achieve the goals of the fair use. For example, if the fair use being cited for a logo is company identification, then the logo should be in the minimum resolution necessary for the company to be identifiable. Now we can argue over whether a particular logo needs be 300px or 250px to be identifiable -- although I have no intention of doing so. However, an SVG is effectively infinite resolution and is clearly larger than necessary to permit identification.
The idea in law that use must be minimal to be fair comes from the doctrines of nominative use. One party may use the trademark of another to refer to the trademarked product or company if:
When reproducing a logo, it is necessary to comply with both trademark and copyright law.
-- Selket Talk 19:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
(indent reduced)
I just wanted to point out that I'm having a similar discussion with rtc at my talk page. -- Selket Talk 05:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC) On most non-trivial logos, even using Inkscape's (which is much better than anything else I've ever used) automated vectorise tool will not give output that is not 100% consistent with the raster version (even ignoring antialiasing and JPEG artifacts). Also, going back to the requirement for an "accurate and has a high-quality appearance" for a moment, with raster files this is obviously only required at the resolution that the file is at. But with SVG this becomes less clear - if you take an SVG that is designed not to render perfectly true to the original above X resolution, and zoom to 300 or 500% of that resolution, then you will not get a logo that is "accurate". Does that then fall foul of policy? Stannered 09:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
One more question: "fairuse" overlaps with some of the other categories, especially "emblem". Possible courses of action:
I personally think that #1 is sufficient. -- Interiot 20:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
In this case, I think #1, as otherwise people will see the images in other subcats and not see the health warning at the top of the FairUse page. However, I think there is an overlap between, for instance, graph and physical (for stupidly-complex scatter graphs with 10,000 elements), so an option for a second subcat might be a good idea. Stannered 20:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi, sorry to jump into a discussion late ( again). I added the quoted material regarding SVGs as a bold edit after investing some time into making SVGs of various crests for universities, and received some friction from others about fair use (I later rasterized the logos, and deleted the SVGs). I think it is appropriate to discourage creating SVGs of copyrighted material unless it specifically has some special license that allows this to be done, or if permission is granted from the copyright holder. SVG logos really are not necessary on wikipedia, since they are primarily used in articles about a company, institution, or product, thus it would appear on that article, with a maximum width of usually 250px. Thus, they really don't need to scale to large sizes, which means a 250px PNG will suffice. Furthermore, it is highly debatable how an SVG can be termed "low resolution" (e.g., simplifying features in Inkscape or Illustrator), and it is far simpler to keep this definition strictly in the terms of rasterized formats. I would much rather see a good quality screen-resolution PNG logo rather than a poorly implemented and simplified SVG logo, which could potentially look worse than the PNG at an equivalent size. Also, I would much rather have SVG enthusiasts invest their time creating non-copyright artwork, rather than re-creating copyrighted work (which may subsequently be lost). + mwtoews 18:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I suppose I should chime in: I am the source of the "friction" Mwtoews received :) . I'm finding it just a bit strange at the moment to come across fair use PNGs tagged with ShouldBeSVG. It seems obvious to me that vector traces of copyrighted logos shouldn't be rasterised at a resolution higher than the original bitmap (that's my opinion: both policy and the law simply require that reproduction should be no larger than necessary). PNG (contra JPEG) is a lossless format, so PNGs should suffer no artifacting. So all we're really doing in recommending vectorisation is making it easier for others to infringe on others' copyright.
The way I see it, we can't legally rasterise a traced vector (much) larger (in px) than the equivalent bitmap, so why bother making an SVG in those cases where the bitmap is a clear, clean copy? If we have low-res bitmap logos in articles, then a would-be copyright violator has to vectorise, reupload and rasterise an image at a large size in order to infringe copyright. If we start supplying copyrighted SVGs, the only thing stopping an editor from rasterising a logo at an illegal size is a small notice on a page nobody ever reads, reminding users not to render Fair Use images at high-resolutions.
I can see the sense in a notice at the top of Category:Fairuse images which should be in SVG format, reminding users that converting to SVG is a wasted effort, but we've still got {{ ShouldBeSVG}} on every image page inviting users to do the conversion. What about {{ ShouldntBeSVG}} for those images? I wouldn't prohibit converting PNGs to SVG, because it has no effect on fair use in itself; for the same reason I wouldn't oppose turning fair use JPEGs into SVG instead of PNG. But encouraging editors to perform a conversion which is at best pointless seems odd to me. — mholland (talk) 19:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I have just raised this issue on the Category:Fairuse images which should be in SVG format and then stumbled across this lengthy discussion. I've actually proposed deleting the category and detagging the articles. This is because it is implicitly against copyright law to upload a logo in a larger resolution than that at which it was provided. Secondly, any upload must be identical in all respects to the original else it becomes plaigerism not just simple copyright violation, this is almost impossible to achieve with automated SVG programs. To have a category therefore that is fairuse images which should be in the SVG format becomes a contradiction in itself, as no fairuse images are suitable for the SVG Format as to transfer them would breach copyright law. Next we must consider what is and isn't a logo, many symbols that are not what we would strictly think of as logos (e.g. screen icons, wi-fi access symbols, signage etc.) are infact copyrighted as logos. A logo is not just a commerical image used to brand or sell a company, they are far more complex legally than that. I just had to go through the main SVG tagged category and remove an amazing 33 out of 209 pictures because they are logos which would breach fair use copyright law if made larger or into SVG. Thats 15% of the entire category! We need to address this immiediately else we risk the foundation getting in serious trouble. I suggest it may even be nessessary to seek higher level clarification of the matter. As I have stated on the talk page for Category:Fairuse images which should be in SVG format, I will wait for consensus on the matter and if nessessary put the article forward for AfD and detag the current images, probably using WP:AWB which can do this in a matter of minutes. WikipedianProlific (Talk) 18:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
1) Images containing the Wikipedia logo. There is no SVG version of the Wikipedia logo. I've been replacing such elements (which are normally for decorative purposes, so possibly violate Wikimedia Foundation's image use policy anyway) with a white (or gradiented white/grey) circle with a W in the middle in Hoefler Text. Is this necessarily the best course of action? Or should we just deny the SVG request and remove the tag?
2) All these damn U+xxxx.gif files. They take up almost an entire page. I asked at the Computing Reference Desk for someone to write a script that could generate them on the fly - didn't get a response. :-( I don't really want to spend an entire evening sat in front of Inkscape laboriously creating 200 SVG files - any advice?
Stannered 20:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Re: #1, hopefully at some point there will be an .svg version of the wikipedia logo... m:Logo says that EVERY other Wikimedia logo is available in SVG, Wikipedia's is the last holdout. Anyway, [1] has a Jimbo quote that says no derivative uses of the logos are allowed without Wikimedia Foundation permission, so raster derivatives probably aren't acceptable in the first place, so I'd probably just deny the request msyself. -- Interiot 22:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Theres seems to be to be a simple answer to this. It would breach copyright law to make an SVG version of the wikipedia logo. If you look on the logo page you will see that it is not a fair use image and its copyright is held by the foundation. We would need to seek higher level authorisation to recreate the logo I believe. Say for example you work for walmart stacking shelves... it wouldn't authorise you to go and redesign the walmart logo would it. WikipedianProlific (Talk) 18:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The category names assigned by this template have a grammatical error in them. They should read "XXX images that should be in SVG." I am fixing it but it may take a while for the cache of all of those pages to update. -- Selket Talk 18:20, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed {{ SVG}} on some images which were imported from external sources, such as Image:Static line.jpg, Image:Blow2.jpg, and (most ridiculously) Image:JRE Signature.jpg. I happen to feel this is inappropriate - images whose value is significantly derived from their being original documents shouldn't be replaced with SVG recreations for aesthetic reasons. Replacing them with higher-resolution versions of the original document is appropriate, if such versions can be obtained, but replacing them with fundamentally different images isn't.
Furthermore, a number of such images which I'm seeing tagged with this template would be rather difficult to vectorize, such as a set of NASA diagrams of Apollo scientific packages, such as Image:Lunar Surface Gravimeter.gif. There are enough images in the vectorization backlog that it'd be not only useless but a waste of valuable time (which could be spent vectorizing images created locally) to vectorize stuff like this.
Any agreement here? Zetawoof( ζ) 13:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that converting PNGs to SVGs is a waste of time. PNG works just fine for logos in my opinion. Ban Ray 21:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
The template's using a PNG. No, seriously, I love SVG more than most people but we really need to stop the whole "everything must be SVG all the time!" thing. We're giving people the wrong idea about what makes the format so great. If you're not going to be resizing, adapting, translating, modifying it in any way, or interacting with it, there's not really any benefit. Actually, PNGs are better for static content like template icons. Rocket000 ( talk) 10:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I believe there should be a new category for military images that should be in SVG format. It will help clear out from the "other" category. mechamind 9 0 17:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
I propose adding a new parameter Vector data
. This would enable linking an EPS, CDR, AI or PDF file containing the image in a vector format that can be converted into a SVG file. Especially in case of logos such a parameter has turned out to be useful in de.wikipedia (
Kategorie:Datei:In SVG konvertieren (Vektordaten vorhanden)). --
Leyo 19:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems at one point that {{Should be SVG|world scout}}
may have existed as discussed at
Category:World Scout images that should be in SVG format. It is the only subcategory under
Category:Images that should be in SVG format that is not automatically added to using {{
Should be SVG}}. I noticed some images in that category aren't even tagged with {{
Should be SVG}} and have just manually been added to the category. Should it be added back as a valid parameter? What should be done with the category? I imagine that category was created by the
WikiProject Scouting. My thoughts are that the category shouldn't be deleted and that rather the images should also be placed the appropriate existing parameter. For example my thoughts on how to properly use it for a scouting logo would be {{Should be SVG|world scout,logo}}
which would add it to both
Category:World Scout images that should be in SVG format and
Category:Logo images that should be in SVG format. --
ben_b (
talk) 03:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
I've read the reasons why svg is better than .gif, .jpg, or .png, but it all seems similar to a fight between PCs and Macs. The overwhelming majority of visitors to Wikipedia just want to see the image and don't care about the incredibly minute details.
However, some people don't have the ability to fully utilize .svg files. At work on my work computer, I often use Wikipedia for information, but I can't view the large version of .svg images. I would bet that millions of people also use it at work and also have a similar problem. What good is a file if you can't even see the full version of it?
I can't install anything on my computer; also, why should someone have to mess with computer settings at all just to simply use Wikipedia to its full potential? Not everyone is using the latest version a web browser or other program, nor should we expect them to.
Some Wikipedians upload images as .svg the first time, and that is enough of a problem. Why do we need to make Wikipedia even less usable by asking that all images be made .svg? This is not only unnecessary, but it is also counterproductive.
tl;dr Can we stop putting this template on all images? Or even delete this template and the related ones (e.g. "Convert to SVG and copy to Wikimedia Commons")?
Ufwuct (
talk) 20:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
There are four images - File:Coldplay speedofsound.png, File:ColdplayTheHardestPart.jpg, File:LetUsMoveOn.jpg, and File:True (EP).jpg - that are labeled with both {{svg|logo}} and {{svg|music}}. As far as I can tell, the music category is for musical notes, scores, etc. and not for all music-related images, so I'll be removing the music category tags from those images for the time being.
What sort of things can be done to resolve this ambiguity between categories when two or more might be appropriate? Two should-be-svg boxes is messy and redundant. I'm thinking that there are two possibilities here: narrow category descriptions to the point where ambiguity is no longer an issue, or modify the template to allow for multiple category parameters, such as {{svg|cat1=...|cat2=...|etc.. Just thought I'd share my opinion, sorry if this has been discussed before. Fuebar ( talk) 21:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
The Commons' equivalent template has matured faster than this one, and has more categories that perhaps might be used here as well. Particularly military ensignia, music -> musical notation, icon, deprecation of emblem, and math. Fuebar ( talk) 18:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I did a few cosmetics on how the URL given by the "url" parameter is shown in the template box to improve it's visibility (and therefore the chance an image with vector source available will be vectorized). The difference can be seen in testcases.
Furthermore I changed the template to add images with vector source ("url" parameter specified) to Category:Images that should be in SVG format (vector data available) which I'll design to be an additional subcategory of Category:Images that should be in SVG format as soon as the changes are applied. This will allow to quickly find all images for which vector data is already available and hopefully motivate some people to do the vectorization.
The changed code can be found in Template:Should be SVG/sandbox&oldid=551705434 -- Patrick87 ( talk) 23:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Per my reasoning at Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#Non-free_images_and_SVG (and at least partially per the 7-year-old discussion above), it seems very likely to me that no fair use images should be tagged with {{ Should be SVG}}, and yet there's an entire category devoted to this. It seems like there's general agreement that per WP:IMAGERES, SVG versions of fair use images are not going to meet fair use rationale anyway, so it seems to me that the "fair use" category (and to a lesser extent the "logo" category) are sending a mixed message here. I propose that for now the "Should be SVG" tag be removed from all fair use images, and the fair use category retired. Depending on whether wording is added to WP:NFCC and/or WP:LOGO about vector versions of fair use images, that should be reflected in the template documentation here. Any disagreement? 0x0077BE [ talk/ contrib] 21:42, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
{{Should be SVG}}
from any of those images in any (half-)automated process.Oddly, adding this template to a Commons image description also seems to have added Template:BadJPEG to the end of it. I'm not sure why; I can't see where that'd be coming from. Ideas? AtomCrusher ( talk) 16:57, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The <code>
tag in the following source snippet (as highlighted) should be removed, as {{
tlx}}
already uses it and thus is redundant in the template:
...tag the old version with <code>{{tlx|Vector version available|''NewImage''.svg}}</code>, and remove this tag.
Ntx61 ( talk) 16:19, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Many (likely most) images that are tagged with this template are non-free logos. Please add the following notice to the template, markup included:
Do not re-draw or auto-trace official logos, but instead, seek out vector versions from official sources.
Per WP:NFC, we are only allowed to upload SVG versions of non-free logos if they were released by the copyright holder. This needs be stated in this template, as many users just assume that we are requesting that someone just draw a new logo. – Pbrks ( t • c) 17:32, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Description of suggested change: We should clarify that no non-free images should be redrawn by users and not just limited to non-free logos.
− | Do not re-draw or auto-trace | + | Do not re-draw or auto-trace non-free images, but instead, seek out vector versions from official sources. |
– Pbrks ( t • c) 23:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Template:Should be SVG is permanently
protected from editing because it is a
heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
consensus, editors may use {{
edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's
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Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. Functionality of the template can be checked using test cases. |
Call me crazy, but I think THIS image - the encircled "i" - should be SVG! It seems a bit odd that it's PNG. (Yes, I know the original is an icon provided as PNG. But an information symbol is a good target for conversion to SVG.) El T 11:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to put this tag on (the en:Image page for) images which are fetched automatically from Commons? (I have in mind Image:Gosper_curve_3.png, for one.) — Blotwell 02:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't this template be on Commons as well? I find it funny that it's only on English Wikipedia right now. -- Geopgeop 20:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is Image:Information_icon.svg changed to Image:Gtk-dialog-info.svg? -- 80.63.213.182 18:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
There's been some discussion that SVG logos may be fair-use violations. While I don't agree with this (a 1kb SVG is no more "infinite resolution" than a 200x200 raster image that's blown up to 5000x5000... what matters is not the size you can blow an image up to, what matters is how much detail the image actually contains). Anyway, while I don't agree with this, it sounds like a number of people do, so it may be better to hold off on putting this tag on more logos. And if there's firm consensus that logos shouldn't be converted to SVG, the template should probably be removed from all logos. -- Interiot 21:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Was there a decision on this? I'd like to remove logos from this category as it is very huge and, as you said, time would be better spent improving free images. I'm also going through and putting some of these images up at WP:GL to get them off of this list.↔ NMajdan• talk• EditorReview 15:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Should we have users stop adding images to this category? There is such a huge backlog of images, including many that probably shouldn't be converted to SVG. We now have the Graphics Lab that handles these conversions so any requests should go there, not here.↔ NMajdan• talk 18:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
On Wikimedia Commons there is an analogous Template to this one, called {{{Template:Convert to SVG}}}. It has one important feature, however, that I think might be worth adding to our template on Wikipedia. That is, when someone places the {{{Convert to SVG}}} tag, they have the option of adding a parameter: for example, {{{Convert to SVG|flag}}}. Doing so will add the image to a sub-category of commons:Category:Images that should use vector graphics based on the parameter supplied (e.g. the tag chemical will place the image in commons:Category:Chemical images that should use vector graphics). Given the huge number of images we have tagged with this template, I believe think this functionality would be useful. In particular, I can see it having an effect similar to that of stub sorting -- it would make it easy for someone with specific expertise (for example, making SVG chemical diagrams) to find images to convert. What do you think? MithrandirMage 03:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
MithrandirMage, et al, do you think we should add an option "sexposition"? There are quite a few such images lying around the category, and they will require somewhat... unique SVG skills to convert! Or should we lump such images in with "anatomy"? Cheers, Stannered 23:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Given that we've lost consensus on the FU Logo/SVG "issue", should we add "|fairuse" as a parameter to split off all images which have the {{ logo}} template or similar attached? I for one don't convert such images due to their questionable copyright status, and they're starting to form the majority of the clutter... Or am I being silly? Stannered 11:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to Interiot's good faith assertion that there is no basis in law or consensus that logos should not be uploaded in SVG format, there is ample evidence of both.
(self-pagerism from another conversation on this subject below)
WP:LOGO states:
“ | Overly high-resolution versions of logos should be avoided, however, as they are less likely to be fair use. Do not use SVG formats, as this can infringe on fair use. However, if vector artwork is available, they can be rasterized to a screen-resolution PNG format. | ” |
This is because they are fair use images. To comply with fair use requirements, at least in the U.S., I can't speak to the laws elsewhere, the reproduction of the copyrighted work must be as minimal as possible to achieve the goals of the fair use. For example, if the fair use being cited for a logo is company identification, then the logo should be in the minimum resolution necessary for the company to be identifiable. Now we can argue over whether a particular logo needs be 300px or 250px to be identifiable -- although I have no intention of doing so. However, an SVG is effectively infinite resolution and is clearly larger than necessary to permit identification.
The idea in law that use must be minimal to be fair comes from the doctrines of nominative use. One party may use the trademark of another to refer to the trademarked product or company if:
When reproducing a logo, it is necessary to comply with both trademark and copyright law.
-- Selket Talk 19:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
(indent reduced)
I just wanted to point out that I'm having a similar discussion with rtc at my talk page. -- Selket Talk 05:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC) On most non-trivial logos, even using Inkscape's (which is much better than anything else I've ever used) automated vectorise tool will not give output that is not 100% consistent with the raster version (even ignoring antialiasing and JPEG artifacts). Also, going back to the requirement for an "accurate and has a high-quality appearance" for a moment, with raster files this is obviously only required at the resolution that the file is at. But with SVG this becomes less clear - if you take an SVG that is designed not to render perfectly true to the original above X resolution, and zoom to 300 or 500% of that resolution, then you will not get a logo that is "accurate". Does that then fall foul of policy? Stannered 09:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
One more question: "fairuse" overlaps with some of the other categories, especially "emblem". Possible courses of action:
I personally think that #1 is sufficient. -- Interiot 20:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
In this case, I think #1, as otherwise people will see the images in other subcats and not see the health warning at the top of the FairUse page. However, I think there is an overlap between, for instance, graph and physical (for stupidly-complex scatter graphs with 10,000 elements), so an option for a second subcat might be a good idea. Stannered 20:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi, sorry to jump into a discussion late ( again). I added the quoted material regarding SVGs as a bold edit after investing some time into making SVGs of various crests for universities, and received some friction from others about fair use (I later rasterized the logos, and deleted the SVGs). I think it is appropriate to discourage creating SVGs of copyrighted material unless it specifically has some special license that allows this to be done, or if permission is granted from the copyright holder. SVG logos really are not necessary on wikipedia, since they are primarily used in articles about a company, institution, or product, thus it would appear on that article, with a maximum width of usually 250px. Thus, they really don't need to scale to large sizes, which means a 250px PNG will suffice. Furthermore, it is highly debatable how an SVG can be termed "low resolution" (e.g., simplifying features in Inkscape or Illustrator), and it is far simpler to keep this definition strictly in the terms of rasterized formats. I would much rather see a good quality screen-resolution PNG logo rather than a poorly implemented and simplified SVG logo, which could potentially look worse than the PNG at an equivalent size. Also, I would much rather have SVG enthusiasts invest their time creating non-copyright artwork, rather than re-creating copyrighted work (which may subsequently be lost). + mwtoews 18:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I suppose I should chime in: I am the source of the "friction" Mwtoews received :) . I'm finding it just a bit strange at the moment to come across fair use PNGs tagged with ShouldBeSVG. It seems obvious to me that vector traces of copyrighted logos shouldn't be rasterised at a resolution higher than the original bitmap (that's my opinion: both policy and the law simply require that reproduction should be no larger than necessary). PNG (contra JPEG) is a lossless format, so PNGs should suffer no artifacting. So all we're really doing in recommending vectorisation is making it easier for others to infringe on others' copyright.
The way I see it, we can't legally rasterise a traced vector (much) larger (in px) than the equivalent bitmap, so why bother making an SVG in those cases where the bitmap is a clear, clean copy? If we have low-res bitmap logos in articles, then a would-be copyright violator has to vectorise, reupload and rasterise an image at a large size in order to infringe copyright. If we start supplying copyrighted SVGs, the only thing stopping an editor from rasterising a logo at an illegal size is a small notice on a page nobody ever reads, reminding users not to render Fair Use images at high-resolutions.
I can see the sense in a notice at the top of Category:Fairuse images which should be in SVG format, reminding users that converting to SVG is a wasted effort, but we've still got {{ ShouldBeSVG}} on every image page inviting users to do the conversion. What about {{ ShouldntBeSVG}} for those images? I wouldn't prohibit converting PNGs to SVG, because it has no effect on fair use in itself; for the same reason I wouldn't oppose turning fair use JPEGs into SVG instead of PNG. But encouraging editors to perform a conversion which is at best pointless seems odd to me. — mholland (talk) 19:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I have just raised this issue on the Category:Fairuse images which should be in SVG format and then stumbled across this lengthy discussion. I've actually proposed deleting the category and detagging the articles. This is because it is implicitly against copyright law to upload a logo in a larger resolution than that at which it was provided. Secondly, any upload must be identical in all respects to the original else it becomes plaigerism not just simple copyright violation, this is almost impossible to achieve with automated SVG programs. To have a category therefore that is fairuse images which should be in the SVG format becomes a contradiction in itself, as no fairuse images are suitable for the SVG Format as to transfer them would breach copyright law. Next we must consider what is and isn't a logo, many symbols that are not what we would strictly think of as logos (e.g. screen icons, wi-fi access symbols, signage etc.) are infact copyrighted as logos. A logo is not just a commerical image used to brand or sell a company, they are far more complex legally than that. I just had to go through the main SVG tagged category and remove an amazing 33 out of 209 pictures because they are logos which would breach fair use copyright law if made larger or into SVG. Thats 15% of the entire category! We need to address this immiediately else we risk the foundation getting in serious trouble. I suggest it may even be nessessary to seek higher level clarification of the matter. As I have stated on the talk page for Category:Fairuse images which should be in SVG format, I will wait for consensus on the matter and if nessessary put the article forward for AfD and detag the current images, probably using WP:AWB which can do this in a matter of minutes. WikipedianProlific (Talk) 18:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
1) Images containing the Wikipedia logo. There is no SVG version of the Wikipedia logo. I've been replacing such elements (which are normally for decorative purposes, so possibly violate Wikimedia Foundation's image use policy anyway) with a white (or gradiented white/grey) circle with a W in the middle in Hoefler Text. Is this necessarily the best course of action? Or should we just deny the SVG request and remove the tag?
2) All these damn U+xxxx.gif files. They take up almost an entire page. I asked at the Computing Reference Desk for someone to write a script that could generate them on the fly - didn't get a response. :-( I don't really want to spend an entire evening sat in front of Inkscape laboriously creating 200 SVG files - any advice?
Stannered 20:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Re: #1, hopefully at some point there will be an .svg version of the wikipedia logo... m:Logo says that EVERY other Wikimedia logo is available in SVG, Wikipedia's is the last holdout. Anyway, [1] has a Jimbo quote that says no derivative uses of the logos are allowed without Wikimedia Foundation permission, so raster derivatives probably aren't acceptable in the first place, so I'd probably just deny the request msyself. -- Interiot 22:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Theres seems to be to be a simple answer to this. It would breach copyright law to make an SVG version of the wikipedia logo. If you look on the logo page you will see that it is not a fair use image and its copyright is held by the foundation. We would need to seek higher level authorisation to recreate the logo I believe. Say for example you work for walmart stacking shelves... it wouldn't authorise you to go and redesign the walmart logo would it. WikipedianProlific (Talk) 18:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The category names assigned by this template have a grammatical error in them. They should read "XXX images that should be in SVG." I am fixing it but it may take a while for the cache of all of those pages to update. -- Selket Talk 18:20, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed {{ SVG}} on some images which were imported from external sources, such as Image:Static line.jpg, Image:Blow2.jpg, and (most ridiculously) Image:JRE Signature.jpg. I happen to feel this is inappropriate - images whose value is significantly derived from their being original documents shouldn't be replaced with SVG recreations for aesthetic reasons. Replacing them with higher-resolution versions of the original document is appropriate, if such versions can be obtained, but replacing them with fundamentally different images isn't.
Furthermore, a number of such images which I'm seeing tagged with this template would be rather difficult to vectorize, such as a set of NASA diagrams of Apollo scientific packages, such as Image:Lunar Surface Gravimeter.gif. There are enough images in the vectorization backlog that it'd be not only useless but a waste of valuable time (which could be spent vectorizing images created locally) to vectorize stuff like this.
Any agreement here? Zetawoof( ζ) 13:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that converting PNGs to SVGs is a waste of time. PNG works just fine for logos in my opinion. Ban Ray 21:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
The template's using a PNG. No, seriously, I love SVG more than most people but we really need to stop the whole "everything must be SVG all the time!" thing. We're giving people the wrong idea about what makes the format so great. If you're not going to be resizing, adapting, translating, modifying it in any way, or interacting with it, there's not really any benefit. Actually, PNGs are better for static content like template icons. Rocket000 ( talk) 10:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I believe there should be a new category for military images that should be in SVG format. It will help clear out from the "other" category. mechamind 9 0 17:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
I propose adding a new parameter Vector data
. This would enable linking an EPS, CDR, AI or PDF file containing the image in a vector format that can be converted into a SVG file. Especially in case of logos such a parameter has turned out to be useful in de.wikipedia (
Kategorie:Datei:In SVG konvertieren (Vektordaten vorhanden)). --
Leyo 19:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems at one point that {{Should be SVG|world scout}}
may have existed as discussed at
Category:World Scout images that should be in SVG format. It is the only subcategory under
Category:Images that should be in SVG format that is not automatically added to using {{
Should be SVG}}. I noticed some images in that category aren't even tagged with {{
Should be SVG}} and have just manually been added to the category. Should it be added back as a valid parameter? What should be done with the category? I imagine that category was created by the
WikiProject Scouting. My thoughts are that the category shouldn't be deleted and that rather the images should also be placed the appropriate existing parameter. For example my thoughts on how to properly use it for a scouting logo would be {{Should be SVG|world scout,logo}}
which would add it to both
Category:World Scout images that should be in SVG format and
Category:Logo images that should be in SVG format. --
ben_b (
talk) 03:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
I've read the reasons why svg is better than .gif, .jpg, or .png, but it all seems similar to a fight between PCs and Macs. The overwhelming majority of visitors to Wikipedia just want to see the image and don't care about the incredibly minute details.
However, some people don't have the ability to fully utilize .svg files. At work on my work computer, I often use Wikipedia for information, but I can't view the large version of .svg images. I would bet that millions of people also use it at work and also have a similar problem. What good is a file if you can't even see the full version of it?
I can't install anything on my computer; also, why should someone have to mess with computer settings at all just to simply use Wikipedia to its full potential? Not everyone is using the latest version a web browser or other program, nor should we expect them to.
Some Wikipedians upload images as .svg the first time, and that is enough of a problem. Why do we need to make Wikipedia even less usable by asking that all images be made .svg? This is not only unnecessary, but it is also counterproductive.
tl;dr Can we stop putting this template on all images? Or even delete this template and the related ones (e.g. "Convert to SVG and copy to Wikimedia Commons")?
Ufwuct (
talk) 20:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
There are four images - File:Coldplay speedofsound.png, File:ColdplayTheHardestPart.jpg, File:LetUsMoveOn.jpg, and File:True (EP).jpg - that are labeled with both {{svg|logo}} and {{svg|music}}. As far as I can tell, the music category is for musical notes, scores, etc. and not for all music-related images, so I'll be removing the music category tags from those images for the time being.
What sort of things can be done to resolve this ambiguity between categories when two or more might be appropriate? Two should-be-svg boxes is messy and redundant. I'm thinking that there are two possibilities here: narrow category descriptions to the point where ambiguity is no longer an issue, or modify the template to allow for multiple category parameters, such as {{svg|cat1=...|cat2=...|etc.. Just thought I'd share my opinion, sorry if this has been discussed before. Fuebar ( talk) 21:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
The Commons' equivalent template has matured faster than this one, and has more categories that perhaps might be used here as well. Particularly military ensignia, music -> musical notation, icon, deprecation of emblem, and math. Fuebar ( talk) 18:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
This
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I did a few cosmetics on how the URL given by the "url" parameter is shown in the template box to improve it's visibility (and therefore the chance an image with vector source available will be vectorized). The difference can be seen in testcases.
Furthermore I changed the template to add images with vector source ("url" parameter specified) to Category:Images that should be in SVG format (vector data available) which I'll design to be an additional subcategory of Category:Images that should be in SVG format as soon as the changes are applied. This will allow to quickly find all images for which vector data is already available and hopefully motivate some people to do the vectorization.
The changed code can be found in Template:Should be SVG/sandbox&oldid=551705434 -- Patrick87 ( talk) 23:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Per my reasoning at Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#Non-free_images_and_SVG (and at least partially per the 7-year-old discussion above), it seems very likely to me that no fair use images should be tagged with {{ Should be SVG}}, and yet there's an entire category devoted to this. It seems like there's general agreement that per WP:IMAGERES, SVG versions of fair use images are not going to meet fair use rationale anyway, so it seems to me that the "fair use" category (and to a lesser extent the "logo" category) are sending a mixed message here. I propose that for now the "Should be SVG" tag be removed from all fair use images, and the fair use category retired. Depending on whether wording is added to WP:NFCC and/or WP:LOGO about vector versions of fair use images, that should be reflected in the template documentation here. Any disagreement? 0x0077BE [ talk/ contrib] 21:42, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
{{Should be SVG}}
from any of those images in any (half-)automated process.Oddly, adding this template to a Commons image description also seems to have added Template:BadJPEG to the end of it. I'm not sure why; I can't see where that'd be coming from. Ideas? AtomCrusher ( talk) 16:57, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
This
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The <code>
tag in the following source snippet (as highlighted) should be removed, as {{
tlx}}
already uses it and thus is redundant in the template:
...tag the old version with <code>{{tlx|Vector version available|''NewImage''.svg}}</code>, and remove this tag.
Ntx61 ( talk) 16:19, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Many (likely most) images that are tagged with this template are non-free logos. Please add the following notice to the template, markup included:
Do not re-draw or auto-trace official logos, but instead, seek out vector versions from official sources.
Per WP:NFC, we are only allowed to upload SVG versions of non-free logos if they were released by the copyright holder. This needs be stated in this template, as many users just assume that we are requesting that someone just draw a new logo. – Pbrks ( t • c) 17:32, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
This
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Description of suggested change: We should clarify that no non-free images should be redrawn by users and not just limited to non-free logos.
− | Do not re-draw or auto-trace | + | Do not re-draw or auto-trace non-free images, but instead, seek out vector versions from official sources. |
– Pbrks ( t • c) 23:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)