![]() |
Template:Paragraph break is permanently
protected from editing because it is a
heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
consensus, editors may use {{
edit protected}} to notify an administrator to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's
documentation to add usage notes or
categories.
Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. This template does not have a testcases subpage. You can create the testcases subpage here. |
![]() | Accessibility | |||
|
![]() | This template was considered for deletion on 2016 May 28. The result of the discussion was "keep". |
Just dropping a note that this was briefly discussed here ( permalink). 213.7.147.34 ( talk) 21:43, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
Regardless of how this template is implemented, I'm not sure I understand why using this template is better than using a <p> element within a list or anywhere else. The text following a <p> tag is implicitly placed by the browser into a <p> (paragraph) element. (Technically, it would be better if a closing </p> tag was placed at the end of the paragraph, but browsers will implicitly close the element.) Introducing an empty <div> element seems worse, in one sense, since it really is introducing an element without content. (On other hand, since a <div> is a generic element for a block of text, it doesn't have any inherent semantics.) isaacl ( talk) 17:43, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
@ Frietjes:, @ Isaacl: and @ 213.7.147.34:: I came here when an editor corrected a comment of mine from a <p> to a {{paragraph break}}. It does seem to have advantages where you are in a hurry to split paragraphs.
I am trying to understand this better too. I know just enough HTML to be dangerous :) I do often use <p> for a new paragraph for talk pages where I am the first commenter and need a new paragraph (as I did for this paragraph). I never cared for <br/> which looks ugly and has the connotation of "breaking" something, and reminds me of all the problems of Carriage Return-Line Feed on PC's vs. Newlines on Unix and how awful it was to move text from one platform to the other. I don't really know the difference in function between <p> and <br/>, and I would love to hear it explained, especially since both forms are advanced here without much explanation of the difference in meaning.
Now in addition we have you guys have pointed me to <div>. I'm not sure what that does either.
Since we are talking HMTL code and Wikicode, why is it that when I put <i>italics</i> or <b>bold</b> some bot eventually comes along and uglifies it to be ''italics'' and '''bold''' and worst of all nesting of <b>bold <i>italics</i></b> to '''bold ''italics'''' the nesting is eliminated and requiring us to carefully count the # of single quotes to figure out what is going on and where the bold and italics starts and ends? I have some more questions, but this is a good start! --
David Tornheim (
talk)
03:43, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
@ Mz7: Thanks for making me aware of this template. Maybe you might know the answer to some of my questions? Also, to everyone, I made a slight change to the documentation to clarify the code for Example 1 the same way Example 2 was done [1]. I think the first ref of Example 1 does not work the way it is claimed to work (i.e. the two paragraph end up on the same line instead of separate paragraphs, at least that's what my browser Firefox does). -- David Tornheim ( talk) 03:56, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
<p>
to make paragraph breaks. But I was told by
MusikAnimal that this is actually invalid HTML. I think he said it needs a closing </p>
tag, which can be cumbersome, so he recommended this template ({{
pb}}), and I've been using it ever since. I know that web browsers can still interpret invalid HTML and make a good guess as to what you really mean, but it's best to avoid it when possible.<br />
and <p>
, I think the relevant distinction is between a "line break" and a "paragraph break". As I understand it, early computer text programs did not automatically "wrap" text to the size of your screen. Notice how my text here automatically moves to a new line whenever the text reaches the right of the window—we almost take this behavior for granted now, but my understanding is that this was not always the case. <br />
is a way to force a "line break", which presents the characters that follow the break on a new line. A "paragraph break", as I understand it, is for separating paragraphs. Unlike the line break, which looks exactly like how the text moves down a line when it hits the right edge of your screen, the paragraph break adds a subtle gap to more visibly separate two paragraphs. <p>...</p>
is a way to indicate paragraph text in HTML, as I understand.<div>
tag is, I believe, just a generic way to divide up HTML content. Apparently an empty div section <div></div>
produces the equivalent of a paragraph break. Now, the reason why a bot will automatically convert your HTML <i>italics</i>
and <b>bold</b>
to wikimarkup ''italics''
and '''bold'''
is simply because wikimarkup is simpler than HTML. It's just what most editors have grown accustomed to using, I suppose, and plus I think it is the native markup language of
MediaWiki, the software that runs Wikipedia.
Mz7 (
talk)
04:33, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
<p>...</p>
. For the last few years, MediaWiki has served
HTML5, which essentially uses the HTML 4.01 rules concerning tag omission - under certain circumstances, closing tags may be omitted when the context implies its presence, and one of the optional closing tags is </p>
.br
element forces a newline in running text, but does not subdivide a block of text.p
element starts a new paragraph, which consists of a single block of text that does not contain other blocks (such as tables or lists).div
element creates a "meaningless" semantic division - it groups together related parts of a document.<div>...</div>
may enclose one or more <p>...</p>
, but a <div>...</div>
may not be placed within a <p>...</p>
since the opening <div>
tag implies the closure of any open <p>
- in other words, an invisible </p>
is assumed to precede the <div>
. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
23:06, 8 April 2017 (UTC)With the closing of Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 May 28 § Template:Paragraph break on 4 June 2016, did the discussion include any points of information that should be summarized in this template's documentation?
Sorry all I can do is point this out, but my real-life limitations won't allow me to do more. Thanks in advance! — Geekdiva ( talk) 09:52, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Izno after your change, articles like Veganism now say templatestyles stripmarker in |quote= at position 1 . you can find more by searching for templatestyles in articlespace. Frietjes ( talk) 19:52, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
This template really needs to work with WP:TemplateStyles. At present it produces unsightly output when used in a list – a common use to avoid breaking the comment when using bullet points in threaded discussion. We need it to fix the following problem:
When used in normal paragraphs it works properly:
Second "chunk" of text.
Third "chunk" of text.
But this is what we get on a talk page using bullets:
The extra margin-top:0.5em
inline-coded into the template produces obvious, ugly extra spacing between the two parts of the comment in the first list item. It looks like the further commentary by the first author belongs with second comment, which is jarring. The solution to this is to use TemplateStyles to remove the extra margin-top
when the {{
pb}} is inside a list element. I've created
Template:Paragraph break/sandbox using
Template:Paragraph break/styles.css and amended the latter to deal with the issue. This is what we get using the sandbox version:
Second "chunk" of text.
Third "chunk" of text.I understand there may be some problem when using {{ pb}} with references, but I'm not familiar with the specifics. @ Izno and Sarah: Does that problem still exist? -- RexxS ( talk) 01:38, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
|quote=
can now accept arbitrary templatestyles templates: Title. . The other parameters with metadata are still checked: Mono content.Double quotation HTML
{{
cite book}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 1 (
help).|quote=
is wrapped in <q> and pb introduces a <div>, which is invalid HTML (wow, it took me a while to realize). --
Izno (
talk)
01:46, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
|quote=
, as I would imagine that {{
ubl}} or {{
blist}} would be semantically correct for multiple items in those sort of cases (i.e. I expect the items would be list items). Can you explain simply enough for me to understand, please? --
RexxS (
talk)
02:54, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
I don't know what the original problem was> "Does that problem still exist" > "No, para: quote can now accept arbitrary templatestyles templates". It's right above here. -- Izno ( talk) 04:18, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
![]() |
Template:Paragraph break is permanently
protected from editing because it is a
heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
consensus, editors may use {{
edit protected}} to notify an administrator to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's
documentation to add usage notes or
categories.
Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. This template does not have a testcases subpage. You can create the testcases subpage here. |
![]() | Accessibility | |||
|
![]() | This template was considered for deletion on 2016 May 28. The result of the discussion was "keep". |
Just dropping a note that this was briefly discussed here ( permalink). 213.7.147.34 ( talk) 21:43, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
Regardless of how this template is implemented, I'm not sure I understand why using this template is better than using a <p> element within a list or anywhere else. The text following a <p> tag is implicitly placed by the browser into a <p> (paragraph) element. (Technically, it would be better if a closing </p> tag was placed at the end of the paragraph, but browsers will implicitly close the element.) Introducing an empty <div> element seems worse, in one sense, since it really is introducing an element without content. (On other hand, since a <div> is a generic element for a block of text, it doesn't have any inherent semantics.) isaacl ( talk) 17:43, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
@ Frietjes:, @ Isaacl: and @ 213.7.147.34:: I came here when an editor corrected a comment of mine from a <p> to a {{paragraph break}}. It does seem to have advantages where you are in a hurry to split paragraphs.
I am trying to understand this better too. I know just enough HTML to be dangerous :) I do often use <p> for a new paragraph for talk pages where I am the first commenter and need a new paragraph (as I did for this paragraph). I never cared for <br/> which looks ugly and has the connotation of "breaking" something, and reminds me of all the problems of Carriage Return-Line Feed on PC's vs. Newlines on Unix and how awful it was to move text from one platform to the other. I don't really know the difference in function between <p> and <br/>, and I would love to hear it explained, especially since both forms are advanced here without much explanation of the difference in meaning.
Now in addition we have you guys have pointed me to <div>. I'm not sure what that does either.
Since we are talking HMTL code and Wikicode, why is it that when I put <i>italics</i> or <b>bold</b> some bot eventually comes along and uglifies it to be ''italics'' and '''bold''' and worst of all nesting of <b>bold <i>italics</i></b> to '''bold ''italics'''' the nesting is eliminated and requiring us to carefully count the # of single quotes to figure out what is going on and where the bold and italics starts and ends? I have some more questions, but this is a good start! --
David Tornheim (
talk)
03:43, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
@ Mz7: Thanks for making me aware of this template. Maybe you might know the answer to some of my questions? Also, to everyone, I made a slight change to the documentation to clarify the code for Example 1 the same way Example 2 was done [1]. I think the first ref of Example 1 does not work the way it is claimed to work (i.e. the two paragraph end up on the same line instead of separate paragraphs, at least that's what my browser Firefox does). -- David Tornheim ( talk) 03:56, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
<p>
to make paragraph breaks. But I was told by
MusikAnimal that this is actually invalid HTML. I think he said it needs a closing </p>
tag, which can be cumbersome, so he recommended this template ({{
pb}}), and I've been using it ever since. I know that web browsers can still interpret invalid HTML and make a good guess as to what you really mean, but it's best to avoid it when possible.<br />
and <p>
, I think the relevant distinction is between a "line break" and a "paragraph break". As I understand it, early computer text programs did not automatically "wrap" text to the size of your screen. Notice how my text here automatically moves to a new line whenever the text reaches the right of the window—we almost take this behavior for granted now, but my understanding is that this was not always the case. <br />
is a way to force a "line break", which presents the characters that follow the break on a new line. A "paragraph break", as I understand it, is for separating paragraphs. Unlike the line break, which looks exactly like how the text moves down a line when it hits the right edge of your screen, the paragraph break adds a subtle gap to more visibly separate two paragraphs. <p>...</p>
is a way to indicate paragraph text in HTML, as I understand.<div>
tag is, I believe, just a generic way to divide up HTML content. Apparently an empty div section <div></div>
produces the equivalent of a paragraph break. Now, the reason why a bot will automatically convert your HTML <i>italics</i>
and <b>bold</b>
to wikimarkup ''italics''
and '''bold'''
is simply because wikimarkup is simpler than HTML. It's just what most editors have grown accustomed to using, I suppose, and plus I think it is the native markup language of
MediaWiki, the software that runs Wikipedia.
Mz7 (
talk)
04:33, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
<p>...</p>
. For the last few years, MediaWiki has served
HTML5, which essentially uses the HTML 4.01 rules concerning tag omission - under certain circumstances, closing tags may be omitted when the context implies its presence, and one of the optional closing tags is </p>
.br
element forces a newline in running text, but does not subdivide a block of text.p
element starts a new paragraph, which consists of a single block of text that does not contain other blocks (such as tables or lists).div
element creates a "meaningless" semantic division - it groups together related parts of a document.<div>...</div>
may enclose one or more <p>...</p>
, but a <div>...</div>
may not be placed within a <p>...</p>
since the opening <div>
tag implies the closure of any open <p>
- in other words, an invisible </p>
is assumed to precede the <div>
. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
23:06, 8 April 2017 (UTC)With the closing of Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 May 28 § Template:Paragraph break on 4 June 2016, did the discussion include any points of information that should be summarized in this template's documentation?
Sorry all I can do is point this out, but my real-life limitations won't allow me to do more. Thanks in advance! — Geekdiva ( talk) 09:52, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Izno after your change, articles like Veganism now say templatestyles stripmarker in |quote= at position 1 . you can find more by searching for templatestyles in articlespace. Frietjes ( talk) 19:52, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
This template really needs to work with WP:TemplateStyles. At present it produces unsightly output when used in a list – a common use to avoid breaking the comment when using bullet points in threaded discussion. We need it to fix the following problem:
When used in normal paragraphs it works properly:
Second "chunk" of text.
Third "chunk" of text.
But this is what we get on a talk page using bullets:
The extra margin-top:0.5em
inline-coded into the template produces obvious, ugly extra spacing between the two parts of the comment in the first list item. It looks like the further commentary by the first author belongs with second comment, which is jarring. The solution to this is to use TemplateStyles to remove the extra margin-top
when the {{
pb}} is inside a list element. I've created
Template:Paragraph break/sandbox using
Template:Paragraph break/styles.css and amended the latter to deal with the issue. This is what we get using the sandbox version:
Second "chunk" of text.
Third "chunk" of text.I understand there may be some problem when using {{ pb}} with references, but I'm not familiar with the specifics. @ Izno and Sarah: Does that problem still exist? -- RexxS ( talk) 01:38, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
|quote=
can now accept arbitrary templatestyles templates: Title. . The other parameters with metadata are still checked: Mono content.Double quotation HTML
{{
cite book}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 1 (
help).|quote=
is wrapped in <q> and pb introduces a <div>, which is invalid HTML (wow, it took me a while to realize). --
Izno (
talk)
01:46, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
|quote=
, as I would imagine that {{
ubl}} or {{
blist}} would be semantically correct for multiple items in those sort of cases (i.e. I expect the items would be list items). Can you explain simply enough for me to understand, please? --
RexxS (
talk)
02:54, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
I don't know what the original problem was> "Does that problem still exist" > "No, para: quote can now accept arbitrary templatestyles templates". It's right above here. -- Izno ( talk) 04:18, 8 February 2021 (UTC)