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If you're going to reach back to, ahem, 1500 as a start date, why the arbitrary cutoff at 1806. Isn't 1806-1846 also "Oregon Early History"; or at least up 'til the end of the Northwest Country in 1821, which certainly marks the end of an era; I was going to add David Thompson (explorer) and other NWCers....if the list here includes people who didn't even land in Oregon (Quadra and Vancouver) and likewise events that didn't take place there (the Nootka Convention/Crisis), it seems a bit odd when the cutoff date prevents the addition of other extraneous-to-physical Oregon events and people; is the meaning of "Oregon" here today's Oregon, or the Oregon Country? If so, events/people up to 54-40 should be here; whether in the Queen Charlottes/North Coast or those parts of New Caledonia south of 54-40? In practical terms "Oregon Country", as an extension of American presence, reach only to Kamloops, where the Astorians (briefly) had a fort; but on the Coast American ships/captains and their dealings with Haida/Tlingit/Tsimshian chiefs are then part of teh story (mostly Bostonians; the history of Massachussetts being tied in here...). But taht's only if "Oregon" in the title here is equated with "Oregon Country"; if it's the current meaning of Oregon, then it's dubious to include Vancouver, Quadra, the Nootka Convention etc; yes, they affected the events which led to the state of Oregon, but then so did the Russian American Company and events in New Caledonia, et al; I just got a "cut it out, please" for pointing out Oregon-centric items which affect historical articles; a similar problem exists with the still-misnamed {{ Native peoples of the Pacific Northwest}}, which again is Oregon-focussed and marginalizes other areas of the Northwest Coast}; Steamboats of the Columbia River is written also from an Oregonian context despite the title; which to me should be a directory of the articles for the various stretches of the river, not just the lower one (which in the Oregonian view/language uses "Upper Columbia" to mean something well below Wenatchee, whereas "Upper Columbia" has different meanings in the other jurisdictions (WA and BC) it flows through. Oregon-centrism in Wikipedia exists; I work hard to diversify BC articles with WA and other related US content, but find myself attacked for seeking balance and "unfortunate language" or outright bad/wrong history. "Stop it, please" is my rejoinder to being told to shut up about this. I'm not being "Uncivil" or acting in "bad faith" - I'm pointing out a foible and shouldn't be shot down for pointing out it very clearly exists. Didn't mean to riff off this here, but in writing out hte issues with this template it's a case in point; "Early History of Oregon" ending in 1806? What's after 1806? Modern history? Skookum1 ( talk) 14:34, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Skookum, I am sure you believe that your criticisms are constructive, but that doesn't make it so. Edit summaries like this one, in which you specifically draw conclusions about the motivations or cognitive abilities of your fellow editors, cross the line that the policy on no personal attacks warns against. It's fine to suggest expanding our view in a certain way; I think we all welcome that kind of criticism, and consider it constructive. But taking the extra step of concluding that certain editors have an inferior perspective to yours is unnecessary, and is an unwelcome distraction from our project of building an encyclopedia. You have a lot to offer, and I've enjoyed and learned from your contributions on numerous topics; but the dismissive and insulting language simply must stop. - Pete ( talk) 08:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Oregon Template‑class | ||||||||||
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If you're going to reach back to, ahem, 1500 as a start date, why the arbitrary cutoff at 1806. Isn't 1806-1846 also "Oregon Early History"; or at least up 'til the end of the Northwest Country in 1821, which certainly marks the end of an era; I was going to add David Thompson (explorer) and other NWCers....if the list here includes people who didn't even land in Oregon (Quadra and Vancouver) and likewise events that didn't take place there (the Nootka Convention/Crisis), it seems a bit odd when the cutoff date prevents the addition of other extraneous-to-physical Oregon events and people; is the meaning of "Oregon" here today's Oregon, or the Oregon Country? If so, events/people up to 54-40 should be here; whether in the Queen Charlottes/North Coast or those parts of New Caledonia south of 54-40? In practical terms "Oregon Country", as an extension of American presence, reach only to Kamloops, where the Astorians (briefly) had a fort; but on the Coast American ships/captains and their dealings with Haida/Tlingit/Tsimshian chiefs are then part of teh story (mostly Bostonians; the history of Massachussetts being tied in here...). But taht's only if "Oregon" in the title here is equated with "Oregon Country"; if it's the current meaning of Oregon, then it's dubious to include Vancouver, Quadra, the Nootka Convention etc; yes, they affected the events which led to the state of Oregon, but then so did the Russian American Company and events in New Caledonia, et al; I just got a "cut it out, please" for pointing out Oregon-centric items which affect historical articles; a similar problem exists with the still-misnamed {{ Native peoples of the Pacific Northwest}}, which again is Oregon-focussed and marginalizes other areas of the Northwest Coast}; Steamboats of the Columbia River is written also from an Oregonian context despite the title; which to me should be a directory of the articles for the various stretches of the river, not just the lower one (which in the Oregonian view/language uses "Upper Columbia" to mean something well below Wenatchee, whereas "Upper Columbia" has different meanings in the other jurisdictions (WA and BC) it flows through. Oregon-centrism in Wikipedia exists; I work hard to diversify BC articles with WA and other related US content, but find myself attacked for seeking balance and "unfortunate language" or outright bad/wrong history. "Stop it, please" is my rejoinder to being told to shut up about this. I'm not being "Uncivil" or acting in "bad faith" - I'm pointing out a foible and shouldn't be shot down for pointing out it very clearly exists. Didn't mean to riff off this here, but in writing out hte issues with this template it's a case in point; "Early History of Oregon" ending in 1806? What's after 1806? Modern history? Skookum1 ( talk) 14:34, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Skookum, I am sure you believe that your criticisms are constructive, but that doesn't make it so. Edit summaries like this one, in which you specifically draw conclusions about the motivations or cognitive abilities of your fellow editors, cross the line that the policy on no personal attacks warns against. It's fine to suggest expanding our view in a certain way; I think we all welcome that kind of criticism, and consider it constructive. But taking the extra step of concluding that certain editors have an inferior perspective to yours is unnecessary, and is an unwelcome distraction from our project of building an encyclopedia. You have a lot to offer, and I've enjoyed and learned from your contributions on numerous topics; but the dismissive and insulting language simply must stop. - Pete ( talk) 08:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)