![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
Due to frustrating situations such as
this (point 2) and
this, I'd incorporate a nowrap = on
parameter in this template (well, its /core) that would frame each list with a the code from the {{nowrap begin}}
and {{nowrap end}}
templates. Unfortunately, however, I'm only able to view the source code, so would somebody with access please make this amendment. Thank you!
Sardanaphalus (
talk)
05:35, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
<div>
tags around lists. I disagree with you on that. (For others that might read this: We use the DIVs so we can put each list item on a separate line in the code.) The DIVs make the lists much easier to see in the code and reduces the human errors a lot. And the DIVs do not interfere with cell backgrounds and text styles etc, the only thing they "cause" is a slightly wider top and bottom margin around the list. By the way, when one uses {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}} then one doesn't need the DIVs since one can use {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}} in the same way as the DIVs. (See
Wikipedia:Line break handling#nowrap begin for a code example.){{nowrap|[[Andrew Grove]] (1997)}}{{·}}
{{nowrap|[[Andrew Grove]] (1997){{·}}}}
</span>
tag at the end of the list (at the end of the surrounding box). That is the </span>
tag that {{nowrap end}} should have added. And at the first occurrence of {{·w}} it cleans away the </span>
tag that is in the beginning of {{·w}}. So the end result is clean XHTML and a perfectly wrapping list that only lacks nowrap protection around the first list item. But the first list item is almost always short enough to never wrap anyway. So the truth is that it doesn't matter if people forget {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}}. They can use {{·w}} alone. At least in the current version of MediaWiki. So we don't really need the "nowrap = on" option.CapitalR: Ah, so you also been on a six month wikibreak? I came back some week ago, mostly to see what happened with the templates I coded last summer. Got stuck answering questions about them (like here) and doing some updates to some of them since we learnt more since then. I'll try to squeeze in some time to look at your new navbox, don't know when though.
Sardanaphalus: I took a look at the code in your example box above, and yes, that is the best way to use {{nowrap begin}}. I have a guess what you might have done to see it "fail". You might have coded like this:
| list2 = {{nowrap begin}}[[item1]]{{·w}} [[item2]]{{·w}} [[item3]]{{·w}} {{nowrap end}}
Just as with DIVs, if you put the first list item on the same line as the "list2 =" then you get an ugly rendering. Instead you should code like one of these two examples:
| list1 = {{nowrap begin}} [[item1]]{{·w}} [[item2]]{{·w}} [[item3]]{{·w}} {{nowrap end}} | list2 = {{nowrap begin}} [[item1]]{{·w}} [[item2]]{{·w}} [[item3]]{{·w}} {{nowrap end}}
It doesn't matter if the {{ nowrap begin}} is on the same line as the "list2 =" or not. Both works fine.
And I don't think you need to worry about any "lurking unknown problems" with {{ nowrap begin}}. We have tested it for six months now, and as I told above it even mostly works correctly if you omit one or both of {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}}. There actually is one known problem with {{·w}}, as the "technical details" section in the docs at {{nowrap end}} says:
You can see examples of what happens at Template talk:Nowrap begin#Testing with bold and italics.
By the way, I have recently come to a conclusion: Some of the templates I work with are used in so many places that the number of human editors that use them must be big. Thus it is important to document them properly, since we will never be able to talk with all the editors or correct their erroneous usage. And we need to show good examples on other pages. (I call that "marketing".) Like we should perhaps show {{nowrap begin}} usage in some of the examples in the documentation here at {{ navbox}}? The reason I wrote Wikipedia:Line break handling and linked it from all relevant pages was exactly that, to spread the knowledge in a more efficient way. (As you might have seen, CapitalR wrote very nice documentation for {{navbox}}.) What I mean is that it is more important to add such examples here at the {{navbox}} than to actually fix the current errors out there in the templates. Since people will keep adding this to more and more templates in the future, faster than we can correct their errors.
And about using bots to clean up {{nowrap begin}} usage: I just checked, {{nowrap begin}} is currently "only" used in 1260 templates. (The much higher number of pages that use it is probably mostly due to those templates being on so many pages. Of course, there might also be pages that use them directly.) And {{·w}} etc is used in a similar number of templates. (Was a bit harder to count since there are several helper templates and the short names redirect to the longer names thus messing up the "what links here" list.) It would be a pretty easy thing to get those "what links here" lists (cut and paste), sort them etc and compare them to see which templates use one of the helper templates but totally lacks {{nowrap begin}} or {{nowrap end}}. Of course, that doesn't give us the cases where they are used in some weird way. For that a bot is needed, or manually checking the 1300 or so templates. I have never used any "Wikipedia bots" so I don't know how well they can be programmed. You'll have to ask around among the bot owners.
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 20:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I have compiled a list of templates with obvious nowrap problems. (Mostly navboxes.) There are 228 templates in the list. Anyone that is in the mood is welcome to help out to fix them. See the list and read all about it at: List of templates with nowrap problems. That is in no way a complete list of the navboxes with nowrap problems, but those were the easiest to detect. They are likely to be the worst cases. If we fix those ones then other editors might learn from what they see.
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 07:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I want to simply have this [show] / [hide] function working but the template structure is too complicated. I cannot find the code that enables it. :( can somebody help me out? -- Subfader ( talk) 17:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
how can I change the Navbox color, you know how it's kinda purple how do I change it to ...say for example blue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Markreidyhp ( talk • contribs) 11:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
A while back I reforged {{ infobox}} in this template's image, and now that it's starting to see more widespread usage there's a discussion underway about what default styling should be used. I set the original defaults based directly off of the default styles used here in Navbox, since I presume they've undergone a very extensive debate and because I personally find them quite useful. However, there are a couple of editors who've requested that the default infobox to be colorless. I'm not deeply wedded to the current style but at the same time I'm reluctant to change it based on just a few people's requests so I'm canvassing here to see if anyone with more experience in interface usability and such would be willing to pop over to Template talk:Infobox to give some input. Bryan Derksen ( talk) 16:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know why recently the text in "group" of Template:Navbox becomes smaller in appearance in some computers? -- 59.149.32.77 ( talk) 23:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the best place to raise this issue but a certain user has been going around changing [1]all the navboxes to a new style he created apart from putting the wrong images into some of the navboxes he has also changed the main links to black see this template this makes wiki linked pages show as standard text meaning users will not think to click on this, what do other users think of this new style -- Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 17:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi, is there a way to show a template on a specified article when it's with other templates but keep its default state as autocollaped? See the Hong Kong article for an example, I'm trying to get the Hong Kong Topics template in the See also section to be expanded, while the other templates at the bottom of the page are hidden, but keeping the Hong Kong Topics template hidden on other pages it's transcluded onto. I tried something like this on the Hong Kong article but it didn't work:
==See also== {{Hong Kong Topics|state=show}}
I'm not sure if that feature exists or not. Many thanks -- Joowwww ( talk) 18:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
|state = {{{state<includeonly>|autocollapse</includeonly>}}}
I just saw {{ JamaicaPMs}} which uses the imageleft option. The problem is that this image on the left overlaps with text in the box, or at least it does on my browser (currently using IE). Can anyone explain this? 52 Pickup (deal) 15:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
|left
being used within a table, which causes this
know bug in IE(6). Seems to be fixed now. —
Edokter •
Talk •
18:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to propose the following change:
|es = width:100%;font-size:95%;background:#f7f7f7;{{{liststyle|}}}{{{evenstyle|}}}
to
|es = width:100%;font-size:95%;background:#f7f7f7;padding:0 0.5em;{{{liststyle|}}}{{{evenstyle|}}}
This change provides a extra padding for the lists, making them easy to read. Also, it looks better in my opinion. eDenE 14:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Have a look at this version of Giovanni Trapattoni page, we have red,blue,black,white,purple and green ,basicly a rainbow of of colour here. Is it time to define a standard colour (most likely the pale blue,default colour) for nav boxes? Gnevin ( talk) 20:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
Due to frustrating situations such as
this (point 2) and
this, I'd incorporate a nowrap = on
parameter in this template (well, its /core) that would frame each list with a the code from the {{nowrap begin}}
and {{nowrap end}}
templates. Unfortunately, however, I'm only able to view the source code, so would somebody with access please make this amendment. Thank you!
Sardanaphalus (
talk)
05:35, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
<div>
tags around lists. I disagree with you on that. (For others that might read this: We use the DIVs so we can put each list item on a separate line in the code.) The DIVs make the lists much easier to see in the code and reduces the human errors a lot. And the DIVs do not interfere with cell backgrounds and text styles etc, the only thing they "cause" is a slightly wider top and bottom margin around the list. By the way, when one uses {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}} then one doesn't need the DIVs since one can use {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}} in the same way as the DIVs. (See
Wikipedia:Line break handling#nowrap begin for a code example.){{nowrap|[[Andrew Grove]] (1997)}}{{·}}
{{nowrap|[[Andrew Grove]] (1997){{·}}}}
</span>
tag at the end of the list (at the end of the surrounding box). That is the </span>
tag that {{nowrap end}} should have added. And at the first occurrence of {{·w}} it cleans away the </span>
tag that is in the beginning of {{·w}}. So the end result is clean XHTML and a perfectly wrapping list that only lacks nowrap protection around the first list item. But the first list item is almost always short enough to never wrap anyway. So the truth is that it doesn't matter if people forget {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}}. They can use {{·w}} alone. At least in the current version of MediaWiki. So we don't really need the "nowrap = on" option.CapitalR: Ah, so you also been on a six month wikibreak? I came back some week ago, mostly to see what happened with the templates I coded last summer. Got stuck answering questions about them (like here) and doing some updates to some of them since we learnt more since then. I'll try to squeeze in some time to look at your new navbox, don't know when though.
Sardanaphalus: I took a look at the code in your example box above, and yes, that is the best way to use {{nowrap begin}}. I have a guess what you might have done to see it "fail". You might have coded like this:
| list2 = {{nowrap begin}}[[item1]]{{·w}} [[item2]]{{·w}} [[item3]]{{·w}} {{nowrap end}}
Just as with DIVs, if you put the first list item on the same line as the "list2 =" then you get an ugly rendering. Instead you should code like one of these two examples:
| list1 = {{nowrap begin}} [[item1]]{{·w}} [[item2]]{{·w}} [[item3]]{{·w}} {{nowrap end}} | list2 = {{nowrap begin}} [[item1]]{{·w}} [[item2]]{{·w}} [[item3]]{{·w}} {{nowrap end}}
It doesn't matter if the {{ nowrap begin}} is on the same line as the "list2 =" or not. Both works fine.
And I don't think you need to worry about any "lurking unknown problems" with {{ nowrap begin}}. We have tested it for six months now, and as I told above it even mostly works correctly if you omit one or both of {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}}. There actually is one known problem with {{·w}}, as the "technical details" section in the docs at {{nowrap end}} says:
You can see examples of what happens at Template talk:Nowrap begin#Testing with bold and italics.
By the way, I have recently come to a conclusion: Some of the templates I work with are used in so many places that the number of human editors that use them must be big. Thus it is important to document them properly, since we will never be able to talk with all the editors or correct their erroneous usage. And we need to show good examples on other pages. (I call that "marketing".) Like we should perhaps show {{nowrap begin}} usage in some of the examples in the documentation here at {{ navbox}}? The reason I wrote Wikipedia:Line break handling and linked it from all relevant pages was exactly that, to spread the knowledge in a more efficient way. (As you might have seen, CapitalR wrote very nice documentation for {{navbox}}.) What I mean is that it is more important to add such examples here at the {{navbox}} than to actually fix the current errors out there in the templates. Since people will keep adding this to more and more templates in the future, faster than we can correct their errors.
And about using bots to clean up {{nowrap begin}} usage: I just checked, {{nowrap begin}} is currently "only" used in 1260 templates. (The much higher number of pages that use it is probably mostly due to those templates being on so many pages. Of course, there might also be pages that use them directly.) And {{·w}} etc is used in a similar number of templates. (Was a bit harder to count since there are several helper templates and the short names redirect to the longer names thus messing up the "what links here" list.) It would be a pretty easy thing to get those "what links here" lists (cut and paste), sort them etc and compare them to see which templates use one of the helper templates but totally lacks {{nowrap begin}} or {{nowrap end}}. Of course, that doesn't give us the cases where they are used in some weird way. For that a bot is needed, or manually checking the 1300 or so templates. I have never used any "Wikipedia bots" so I don't know how well they can be programmed. You'll have to ask around among the bot owners.
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 20:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I have compiled a list of templates with obvious nowrap problems. (Mostly navboxes.) There are 228 templates in the list. Anyone that is in the mood is welcome to help out to fix them. See the list and read all about it at: List of templates with nowrap problems. That is in no way a complete list of the navboxes with nowrap problems, but those were the easiest to detect. They are likely to be the worst cases. If we fix those ones then other editors might learn from what they see.
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 07:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I want to simply have this [show] / [hide] function working but the template structure is too complicated. I cannot find the code that enables it. :( can somebody help me out? -- Subfader ( talk) 17:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
how can I change the Navbox color, you know how it's kinda purple how do I change it to ...say for example blue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Markreidyhp ( talk • contribs) 11:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
A while back I reforged {{ infobox}} in this template's image, and now that it's starting to see more widespread usage there's a discussion underway about what default styling should be used. I set the original defaults based directly off of the default styles used here in Navbox, since I presume they've undergone a very extensive debate and because I personally find them quite useful. However, there are a couple of editors who've requested that the default infobox to be colorless. I'm not deeply wedded to the current style but at the same time I'm reluctant to change it based on just a few people's requests so I'm canvassing here to see if anyone with more experience in interface usability and such would be willing to pop over to Template talk:Infobox to give some input. Bryan Derksen ( talk) 16:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know why recently the text in "group" of Template:Navbox becomes smaller in appearance in some computers? -- 59.149.32.77 ( talk) 23:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the best place to raise this issue but a certain user has been going around changing [1]all the navboxes to a new style he created apart from putting the wrong images into some of the navboxes he has also changed the main links to black see this template this makes wiki linked pages show as standard text meaning users will not think to click on this, what do other users think of this new style -- Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 17:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi, is there a way to show a template on a specified article when it's with other templates but keep its default state as autocollaped? See the Hong Kong article for an example, I'm trying to get the Hong Kong Topics template in the See also section to be expanded, while the other templates at the bottom of the page are hidden, but keeping the Hong Kong Topics template hidden on other pages it's transcluded onto. I tried something like this on the Hong Kong article but it didn't work:
==See also== {{Hong Kong Topics|state=show}}
I'm not sure if that feature exists or not. Many thanks -- Joowwww ( talk) 18:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
|state = {{{state<includeonly>|autocollapse</includeonly>}}}
I just saw {{ JamaicaPMs}} which uses the imageleft option. The problem is that this image on the left overlaps with text in the box, or at least it does on my browser (currently using IE). Can anyone explain this? 52 Pickup (deal) 15:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
|left
being used within a table, which causes this
know bug in IE(6). Seems to be fixed now. —
Edokter •
Talk •
18:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to propose the following change:
|es = width:100%;font-size:95%;background:#f7f7f7;{{{liststyle|}}}{{{evenstyle|}}}
to
|es = width:100%;font-size:95%;background:#f7f7f7;padding:0 0.5em;{{{liststyle|}}}{{{evenstyle|}}}
This change provides a extra padding for the lists, making them easy to read. Also, it looks better in my opinion. eDenE 14:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Have a look at this version of Giovanni Trapattoni page, we have red,blue,black,white,purple and green ,basicly a rainbow of of colour here. Is it time to define a standard colour (most likely the pale blue,default colour) for nav boxes? Gnevin ( talk) 20:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)